When is it okay to deceive your spouse?

[Jenniferathome]

Nadine, you will be vilified for this rather obvious truth. In my case it was simple cowardice that held me back for 20+ years. I came clean a few years ago and have lived a much better life for it. After I told my wife she said, "I can understand why you kept that secret." She wasn't happy that I kept this secret but it is such a monumental thing that telling is hard to do.

Honesty is the best policy, we all know this but it is easy to justify behavior when you are afraid.

[JennyLynn]

My final thoughts on this subject. I was attracted to my mothers lipstick and pantyhose when I was a kid. I dressed sporatically when I was a teen. I gave it all up as a fetish until I got to be around 35, and then it came back as an awakening. It wasn't until recenty that I took it up again. If when I was getting married, I wasn't into it, and then felt the desire later on in life, would I tell my new wife that I had this sexual fetish? I didn't know it would forever be a part of me. At this point, I'm not sure it will continue on forever. It's not worth sacrifing my marrriage for something that might just pass, as it has in the past.

[Marleena]

I think you just some people here. If you know you have gender issues tell them early on because it doesn't go away. If you're already in a relationship I have no advice because I don't know what your your outcome will be. I told each partner early on I had gender issues and so far it wasn't a factor.

[Tracii G]

All I can say is do what is right in your own situation.

[Jenni Yumiko]

While I tend to agree with your statements, I do present some caveats.
1. I think a great deal of people here have not told their spouse have been married for a long time.
What does this mean and what affect.
It was a different world before the interwebz, the most people saw of crossdressers mainstream was what TV portrayed. This brought upon preconceived notions of what a CD is, and for the CD, being alone with no one else to share your thoughts and feelings is a sucky deal. This site empowers people, and hopefully more and more people stop by before committing to the sanctity of marriage, discover they are not alone and make smarter choices than they did in the past.
"Hobbiest" I really detest that word in terms of coders and I have blocked a few people who have used it in a condense ding way. If someone feels its a hobby, and the urge is few and far between or even repress able, why bother if your not going to. My wife doesn't know all the people I slept with Orr to her, if she did who knows if she would have married me. Point is, as a hobby, it isn't something overwhelming like a lot of here, something we " have to do" or something just doesn't feel right.

[Dani0948]

I wish I had told her before we got married (28 years ago)- wait a minute, I did.
then why am I in the closet?
She didn't want to talk about it.
My memory isn't clear, but I probably said I would stop. And I did for 25 years. After our dauhgter went away to college, I started up agin and remained silent. Since discovering this site, I'm hoping to tell, but am really afraid of how she will react.You'll have to read some my earlier posts for details, but my reveal is on hold until she is under a whole lot less stress.
While I agree that telling up front is the best, I totally understand why many of us do not (will never) tell - I just wish I had a time machine.

[Helen Grandeis]

One of the truths of life is that honesty and mutual respect in relationships are desirable things. Back in 2010, I made my first reveal based on the idea that honesty was better than a chance encounter in deep space. Unfortunately, I blurted it out in a counseling session for a totally unrelated issue. Her profound disgust with the whole I idea that I was a cross dresser was unanticipated. My near total purge and promise to try my hardest was followed by a campaign to prove myself to be a value added husband. Humor about CD was not appreciated. She renounced our trusted marriage counselor who had seen us through the previous 18 years because he approved and supported my CD.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

Nadine says: "It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that."

THIS forum was about the last place I expected to hear such a harsh expression of moral absolutism. Everyone is free to their moral opinions but why be so judgmental about other people’s marriage?

The only thing else I will say about your attitude is that life is not so simple as your proclamation would assume.

Stephanie

[UNDERDRESSER]

Are you trolling?

.


My advice? Face your fears and tell your SOs near the very beginning of your relationship. If they accept it great, and if not, then you know you need to try and find someone else that will accept you for who you really are.

Cross dressing never was one of those things as I sort of discovered it while we were married and thus she found out along with me.

I've reversed the order of your comments here. Now, take your statement about finding out about being a crossdresser after marriage? How about someone married for decades, to someone he suspects isn't going to be understanding? Someone he knows, or suspects that she can be vengeful, or spiteful, and he has built up a lot of capital in that marriage? In a state where he is likely to lose half, or more of his property, who is likely to lose visitation rights? Starting to see some reasons why they might seem reluctant to open up?

As it happens, I agree with you that a marriage should be based on trust and honesty, and I have a hard time understanding some people's attitudes to marriage and relationships. On the other hand, I find people with extremely rigid or fanatical viewpoints hard to understand as well.

[Nadine Spirit]

Are you trolling?

On the other hand, I find people with extremely rigid or fanatical viewpoints hard to understand as well.

Sorry if I have come off as a troll, that is not my intent. And yes I understand that I have extremely rigid and fanatical viewpoints. But for some reason, for me, I have never found honesty with my spouse all that radical. It, along with cross dressing, is something about me that has always made me feel weird and different than others.

I suppose that it comes from as a child when I lied about anything and everything and all I ever got was grief.

Somewhere along the way, by the time I met my future spouse at 15, I was truthful to a fault. I get how there are some hurtful things that maybe one might not want to tell their spouse, but for me, I always have. If she puts on a dress and tells asks me if her butt looks big, I have always answered yes when it has and no when it hasn't. But we aren't supposed to tell them the truth are we?

And yes, my wife and I were married and neither of us had any idea that I would be the cross dresser I am today, but every step of the way I told her when I decided that I was going to do it. But then again I am also the guy who at 15 when I cheated on her with someone in some place she would never find out about, I came home and called her on the phone, practically throwing up with the fear I had at telling her, and told her. I told her and she promptly broke up with me. We obviously eventually got back together again. And I knew what was going to happen, I knew I had been wrong, I just felt compelled to come clean.

Cross dresser or not, I personally just do not understand the concept of not being honest with a spouse, or someone who might become your spouse.

[AllieSF]

"Cross dresser or not, I personally just do not understand the concept of not being honest with a spouse, or someone who might become your spouse."

That is a perfectly valid statement. Your beliefs are OK, what is upsetting a lot of people here is the way that you delivered your good message. You are obviously new here. Since all we have here are the printed words of others and ourselves, we cannot see body language and ask that quick question for clarification that we could do face to face. Therefore, the tone and specific words used in a post can easily come back to haunt you when those same words are taken at face value in a tone of delivery as perceived by the reader of those words. For probably most of us regular members here that has happened to us more than once, including me.

As to the overall topic of this thread, yes, I agree that telling a spouse before becoming a spouse is always highly recommended. However, when it becomes an after the fact (after marriage), then many other factors come into play. While it is still very recommendable to eventually come clean with the spouse, only each person can make that decision for themselves. None of us knows the specific details of other's relationships, and we are in no position to demand or require others to follow our line of thinking. Recommend, yes.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I'm wondering if there's a generation gap here. I'm 60, and have been married since 1978. I think that's even before Al Gore invented the Internet. At the time I got married, I thought I was the only one in the world. And I thought I could control it.

[kathrynt21]

Thanks very much for the morality lesson.

[UNDERDRESSER]

Cross dresser or not, I personally just do not understand the concept of not being honest with a spouse, or someone who might become your spouse.

Very few people do understand that concept, but sometimes life puts you in situations where you have to make the best of things. In my case, if something became a break point between me and my SO, then we would split. For me, I don't see the point in trying to continue on. Others don't have that particular black/white attitude, I'm not going to condemn them for it, if you want to, go ahead. Not going to get many agreeing with you.

[kathtx]

But for some reason, for me, I have never found honesty with my spouse all that radical. [...]
Cross dresser or not, I personally just do not understand the concept of not being honest with a spouse, or someone who might become your spouse.

I'm with you on that.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Nadine , God bless you. There are so many of us, in our middle age, that have been married for decades when the cd need evolved or resurfaced. It would have been impossible for me to tell my fiancée / bride to be that I was a cd when the condition was not present . Now , after decades of marriage , where we have been blessed with children, precious memories, kindred spirits & entangled debt, we late cd bloomers are confronted with the prospect of losing it all should we reveal the truth. I agree that honesty is one of the core values of marriage, but every cder on this forum must analyze what is in the best interest of the marital union.
We all have learned that words mean things. The older that I get, the more that I try to live by that mantra. I wish you peace, Melissa

[Karren H]

It's ok if she doesn't know she's being deceived...... and as long as your not lying about deceiving her......... like "are you deceiving me?" ever came up in a conversation with my wife before she found out..... mater of fact neither did "do you crossdress"..... So I was good to go....

[mikiSJ]

When is it okay to deceive your spouse?

When you forgot the milk and need an excuse on the fly.

For most of us, this is our deepest secret and however immature, disloyal, lacking in courage you may feel about those who are not 100% truthful with their SOs - get over it. It is their life, their relationship and their burden to bear if they choose not to disclose.

It took me 26 years and a failed marriage before I told ANYONE. I told my current wife before we married 38+ years ago that I dressed, but I didn't tell her that I am transgender until last month - and I now have to pick up the pieces and sort out our marriage.

[Desirae]

So, here we go with another passing judgment, telling everyone else what is best, and what they should do. I thought that kind of behavior was best left to the bigots out there in society who have problems with anyone different from "mainstream" "normal" people. I didn't think it would also be coming so harsh from someone within the community. You DON'T have ANY RIGHT to decide for anyone else what is in their best interest just because you perceive it is in their best interest (or yours). You have no idea about anyone elses circumstances except for your own, and that's where your decision making ability should end.

[sweetshauna]

Never! I suck at lying. Every time I have tried, I had to come clean.

[Wildaboutheels]

I have to wonder just WHAT set you off?

CLEARLY, beyond any shadow of a doubt, you have done very little READING here at this Forum. And/or you think dozens and dozens of folks would come to this Forum and lie about themselves and their Relationships?

Your post implies that ALL CDers are created equal. Because you advise ALL to tell. Do you think also think ALL women are golddiggers and ALL men are pigs? Love conquers all? JD public feels obligated to bust men wearing the wrong clothes and is ALWAYS looking to make problems for CDers of any flavor?

You DO realize [I hope] that probably less than .01 of all MtF CDers ever leave their houses dressed or have any desire to?

I'll bet a weeks pay that if you do some more reading here, you won't be so Closed Minded and have such a black OR white attitude.

BTW, NOT telling anyone something they do not need to know is not deception, no matter who they are or what the Relationship.

[mykell]

wow- must have you rose colored classes on, denial, purge, self loathing, purge again, glad things worked out for you, i thought this was a non judgement zone, good luck with your blog, welcome to the forum.....not, didn't have anything like this when i was 7 yrs old....

[Sonya]

Nadine, I admire your honesty and openness with your spouse. Once the trust is lost in a relationship, it is very hard or maybe impossible to gain again. I admittedly withheld information about myself in my failed marriage but my intentions were never to hurt my partner. In this era with the availability of so much information, I wouldn't advise anyone not disclosing their gender variance before committing to a serious relationship. I also believe that it is very harsh for you to judge others about non disclosure (in terms of cd'ing) since you have not lived their life, as you said your gender issues surfaced after you got together with your spouse, so you do not really know how you would have reacted if you lived a life where you hid your cd'ing from everyone for many years and you struggled with shame and guilt associated with it.

Personally there are certain things in my life which I would like to keep it to myself, and I do not think I am obligated to share with anyone, I believe that everyone is entitled to some privacy.

Since honesty with your spouse is so important with you, I am just wondering does this honesty also extend to your other loved ones and family or is it okay to deceive them and not disclose certain important facts about yourself? I ask this question because I am trying to determine the importance and meaning of the honesty to your life as a whole.

The point that you are making in your OP is valid and in theory maybe perfect. I wish you the best, and this thread has been a good read, so thanks.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Ok then, guess you missed the lesson on "let us not judge so that we be not judged?" Sorry that those among us who don't have the perfect, Rockwell-esque understanding between husband and wife disappoint you, Nadine. But know this- most of us do tell our wives or SO's. A lot who do don't have good results. Before chastising everyone for not being an open-book realize that you are asking them to face significant consequences if they take your advice. Yeah, in a perfect world, everyone tells a potential SO the first time they met and it all works out. But that world is as much a fantasy for a lot of us as the one where we all pass when dressed in public. There are reasons, some right, some wrong, but definitely not ours to judge, why people don't discuss dressing with their SO's. And for whatever it's worth, my wife knew before marriage, still years later prefers not to know anything about it.

[AmyGaleRT]

Nadine, I am in general agreement with what you say, but I also fear that taking such a hard tone with your message may actually do more harm than good...it may drive some of our closeted sisters even deeper into their fear and anguish. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but, as the saying goes, "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

I fully support telling your spouse/SO, before you get married if possible...which is why I came out to my fiancee when I did. And I agree that it is a myth that no one will accept a crossdresser; my fiancee accepted me, and we are both agreed that I really should have told her sooner, as I missed out on a lot of opportunity to dress.

- Amy