A new push towards cd acceptance

[Claire Cook]

It would appear that there may be some light at the end of our cd tunnel concerning public acceptance of us. The entertainment world is making a concerted push in our direction . Hopefully , those presentations will portray tg's as normal , loving & caring souls & not as sick perverted individuals . Many of you were hoping for public acceptance . That wish may become a reality sooner than later.

IMHO, there is a yes and no here. I think too many folks have the old stereotype of Psycho, Dressed to Kill and the Silence of the Lambs that there is something pathological about CD's, and Hollywood needs to correct that. Then we have "drag" movies (e.g. To Wong Foo....) and movies that equate gayness with TG / CD themes. Much as I love The Crying Game or The Birdcage, that theme is there. While Hollywood is dealing with TG themes, maybe we need some honest movies about heterosexual CD's -- Just Like a Woman is , I think, terrific, and maybe Tootsie falls into this category.

Hon, if y'all want social acceptance, you need to come out and stand up for yourselves. You really do.

Paula, you've said a lot. Coming out, at least for me, says "I'm a CD and I'm proud .... and except for my clothes, I'm as normal as you." (Huh? ) And there are some of us who do outreach for our side ... maybe it's time I and others started....

[Beverley Sims]

I feel that all you will see are crime shows with weapon wielding cops and robbers in disguise, or Situation comedies similar to Mrs, Doubtfire.

Regular CD stories are dead boring and pale into insignificance.

Not for the movie writers.

It will give others more of an understanding and tweak the responses of those wishing to come out.

I can see the times square news chaser..........AMTRAK is hoping to improve it's services........ Join CD.Com today..... The us dollar fell again today.....

[AllieSF]

Rian,

I understand some of the culture where you live, and yes, to see much liberalization of out transgender rights there is more of a dream that it may happen in our grand children's lifetime, maybe! However, in the rest of the world, including the USA where many members here live and go out on a regular basis, there are a lot of changes and more are happening every year. So, I believe that, first we are not being expelled from living in the open. Yes, some people run into problems sometimes, but this is less common than most think. Discrimination will probably continue many years after our total rights to be and present ourselves will finally be granted or declared by laws and legislation. However, it is and will continue to improve.

As one who goes out a lot, I have really never had a bad negative experience. That and from what I read here all the time leads me to believe that the general public here in the USA and some other parts of the world are more tolerant and even more accepting than what we may give them credit for. They are not hateful and ready to verbally or physically attack us. We are an oddity to them to be looked at and then ignored. I also believe that by just being out there and meeting people we are helping everyone that follows in our footsteps. We are introducing ourselves and our way of presenting ourselves to others. It takes us time to get used to something new and very different from what we are normally used to seeing and understanding. The general public is like that too. Give them time to see and maybe interact with more of us and I truly believe they will eventually let us live as we wish.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Melissa, What happens in Hollywood and San Francisco don't mean the rest of the country will see it any time soon.

[sometimes_miss]

However, Milton Berle, if anyone is old enough to remember him, as well as, the black comedian Flip Wilson incorporated the concept of crossdressing into one of their many characters years ago and no one ever made a big deal of it.

Apples and oranges. Those comedians, as well as hundreds of male actors who have dressed as women for roles in theater and movies, are NOT tg or ts, and are not making any statements that they are. They are playing a role for humor or drama, often with sarcasm in the case of humorous roles.
As far as acceptance, we're getting there. Much of the population, while not liking us, our behavior, or what we represent, tend to leave us alone as long as we do the same.
However; there is not much we can to about attraction. Women either find us attractive, or not; and when crossdressing is thrown in, it's nearly always 'not'.

[AllieSF]

Sometimes, I don't see the apples and oranges of my statement to the Op of this thread, that the media is putting more attention on putting crossdressing into their programming. I would not be surprised that it will include a lot of humor, just as Milton Berle and Flip Wilson did so many years ago. One does not have to be a German to portray a German in a movie and the same goes for a crossdresser in a serious role or even a TS. Yes, it would be nice that a real German would be used as well as a real Crossdresser and TS. However, that is not always possible, sometimes because of the need to star power to assist in the selling of the movie or program and also the need to pick a qualified person with the right looks, personality and acting skills to portray the character as the Directors and Producers want. Yes, some may also not yet want to deal with the real thing, which needs to change.

Many here do not like humor or sarcasm to be part of the CD or TS roles and I can understand that. However, we never portrayed gays and lesbians in any type of programing or movies many years ago. Now, they bring that other and real element to the big and small screens. Modern Family is a good example of this, and in my opinion works even when they over emphasize the gay stereotypes for humor. A lot of statements about gays in our life are being made in every episode along with the humor and sarcasm. It all helps to get who we are and what we do out there to the mass general public.

I do disagree that much of the population does not like us. I believe that they just don't understand us and have had little or no interaction or experiences with us. Therefore, they are not going to go out of their way to get to know and hopefully accept us, thus they ignore us. Lack of knowledge about something not mainstream makes people hesitant to even try to understand it. As for liking or not, some people just do not like change in any shape or form. They usually and eventually get on board, at least a little bit, when they find that all their acquaintances don't let that new thing bother them.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Girls , whether we know it or not, the times they are a changin' . Cd acceptance or tolerance may be evolving too slow for us involved , but it is happening & the media will be huge swayers of opinion. Look at where the LGBT movement is today - yes, good active historical participation in the movement , but great media persuasion on their behalf . Television has awakened us to gay relationships , gay marriage & child adoption by gays . None if the above shocks our senses . There is an overwhelming majority of Americans that approve of gay marriage . The gay civil rights movement has progressed faster than any other previous minority movement . Yes it will take more time , more persuasion & more understanding , but I choose to believe that our time in the sun is on the horizon rather than continuing to been kept in the darkness. The times they are a changin' ... Just keep the faith & enjoy being feminine. Peace , Mel

[sometimes_miss]

I do disagree that much of the population does not like us. I believe that they just don't understand us and have had little or no interaction or experiences with us. Therefore, they are not going to go out of their way to get to know and hopefully accept us, thus they ignore us.

They aren't ignoring us. Someone a while back did an experiment, went shopping while dressed, with a friend tailing behind to see the after reactions and lets just say she got a surprise that she wasn't either ignored OR not noticed as a crossdresser by most of the people as she thought. Lots of people noticed, and the reactions that were noticed weren't what you'd want. There are plenty of people who simply don't say what they are thinking.

Lack of knowledge about something not mainstream makes people hesitant to even try to understand it. As for liking or not, some people just do not like change in any shape or form. They usually and eventually get on board, at least a little bit, when they find that all their acquaintances don't let that new thing bother them.

The problem however is that all their acquaintances aren't just not letting things bother them. As above, they talk amongst themselves about us, and the discussion rarely comes out like, 'well so he likes to crossdress, who cares'. People who think that's the common reaction have their heads in the sand. Like the person who went out shopping's friend, I get to hear what people say about us when they don't think we're listening, as I'm about as deep in the closet as they come. In general...people don't like us. They don't want us for neighbors, they don't want us as coworkers, and they don't want us as friends. Yes, if you come out, some will remain your friend, but the dynamics of the relationship WILL change; for example, if you previously went out to movies together alone with one male friend, he's probably not likely to do that anymore, simply because there's the ever so slight potential that you might turn out to be gay, and he may not want to encourage others to think he may not be completely straight as well.

[Michelle789]

Lexi,

While I do think that there are some who do notice us, most of us are just WAY to busy, WAY too self-absorbed, and WAY too self-centered to even notice us. Most people in public are pressed for time, and are concerned with their own business and really do not have the time or interest to notice us. Now there are some busy-bodies who just have to notice everything. And yeah, there are people with WAY too much free time on their hands.

So maybe if someone notices you and doesn't say anything, than that means that they have WAY too much free time on their hands, and should go get a life.

[PaulaQ]

Women either find us attractive, or not; and when crossdressing is thrown in, it's nearly always 'not'.

What you say really only applies to straight women. There are bisexual women who like CDs. (Or other trans*). There are trans women who find CDs attractive. You just have to look for the right girl. If you want a straight girl that somehow loves a CD / TG / TS - yeah, they are pretty rare. However, there are a fair number of GG's on this forum who show that even straight girls can be OK with a CD, and for that matter, I know a couple of straight girls who really LIKE CDs.

Don't give up - you can find love. Be open, be flexible, and keep looking. I know a lot of you are lonely - but trust me, it can happen for you too. Be interesting, have a full life - be worth knowing. It'll happen.

[Michelle789]

I think while it's rare for straight GG's to find CD's attractive, there are lots of, especially younger straight CDs, who will be your friend and hang out with you while dressed, but not date you nor be romantically involved with you.

[sometimes_miss]

Lots of women tolerate us, even accept that we exist. But that's a very far away place from being attracted to us sexually. Paula, your answer kind of implies that bi women or gay women are usually attracted to crossdressing males. I don't see that as being true in any way; Here:

What you say really only applies to straight women.

Well, that's what straight crossdressing guys are predominantly looking for. Lets say there are 3 million of us in the U.S., and oh, 80% are straight. O.K., 2.4 million of us now. And how many known women are known to be really attracted to us when crossdressed?? Even on this forum, few. O.K., lets say for the sake of argument 100. so that's, what, 0.005% of us who even have a chance if we stumble upon one of those women, if we're anywhere near being compatible.

There are bisexual women who like CDs.

Haven't come across any. I suppose they exist, but in the last 15 years of searching, all the bi women I've met or contacted online like masculine men or feminine women.

(Or other trans*). There are trans women who find CDs attractive.

Not looking for a wife that's what almost always amounts to a guy in a dress, and smells like one. I was abused by men and have absolutely no interest or attraction there. I'm not trying to be mean, but for a lot of people, changing the genitalia does not a woman make; for while we might feel like we are 'real women' after all the hormones and surgery, that's not how we usually wind up appearing to the rest of the world.

You just have to look for the right girl.

Been looking. Still am. The percentages are very, very bad, which is what I was referring to in my previous post.

If you want a straight girl that somehow loves a CD / TG / TS - yeah, they are pretty rare. However, there are a fair number of GG's on this forum who show that even straight girls can be OK with a CD, and for that matter, I know a couple of straight girls who really LIKE CDs.

A fair number isn't even close. Even the last thread posted came up with very few women who like it; most of the guys who are involved with women here are with someone who tolerates them, most, well they're not enthusiastic about it at all. Besides, what women that come onto this forum aren't going to be already involved with a crossdresser? Kind of skews the results. And on top of that, lets be optimistic and say there are 50 women who are really into crossdressers so much, that they seek us by coming to this forum (and that number includes way more than every single woman who replied to the last thread which asked for women who actively liked their mate's crossdressing. Out of say 150 million women in the U.S.. Let's just say I have a better chance of running into Jesus than finding one. You know a couple. That's 2. Out of everyone you know...was that supposed to be optimistic? Oh, and is that 'like' as a friend, or are they truly sexually turned on by guys like most of us here?

Don't give up - you can find love.

Yes. As long as we don't tell them about the crossdressing. Women will accept nearly anything else, you can be a murderer, prisoner, assassin, cheater, wife beater, drug addict, drunk, habitual liar, there are all plenty of guys like that who have mates. As long as you are masculine. But throw in the feminine card, and we're toast. And "be worth knowing. It'll happen". I apparently am certainly worth knowing. I have no problem getting dates. But I have yet to meet a woman 'in the wild' (that means not on a supportive crossdresser forum) that likes men crossdressing. Sure, they exist. But there's no way to find them, personal ads garner other men & prostitutes. I've been on alt.com, as well as all the regular dating sites. Even ventured onto s&m and bondage sites. Again, nothing (besides, even though I'd be willing to participate in those activities if the woman were o.k. with crossdressing, the vast majority of top/dom women have a huge choice of men, and even they don't seem to prefer crossdressers. There are no legitimate crossdresser/straight girl dating sites (the one that exists is inhabited almost exclusively by males, most of which post their sex as female, so there's no way to find GG's, and the few GG's there are either taken or shills to get men to purchase a membership; after you pay up to contact them, either they don't answer or say that they never wrote to you). There are no crossdresser/straight girl bars, nothing. I'm not trying to be a downer. These are the situations I have found. Back in the 2000's, there was a hotel which hosted a sort of CD night; I stopped by in drab one night to see what it was all about. You guessed it, all guys. Guys in dresses, guys in pants.

[mechamoose]

There *will* be CD acceptance. It is just a matter of WHEN.

We are still outliers in the same way that bi people have trouble in the gay/les community (Their view: "Make up your mind!!!")

We, as Dr. Vinkman said, 'cross the streams'. We don't fit traditional role models. We don't fit traditional presentation models. We make the 'mundane' people think harder than they want to. We challenge what they have been told is 'normal'.

Our types were holy people in ancient cultures. So sad that we don't have that now.

- MM

[natcrys]

Wow.. so much negativity in this thread.. so little faith in the progressive power that we as humans have!

I'm not going to tell people to lighten up, because it could very well be that their individual experiences have been so bad that they have no hope that things might change for the better for *them*.

But you have to completely blind to not see the huge steps we've taken in most Western countries, especially in the last few decades. More and more people know of crossdressing, there's media attention, a lot of countries have laws that protect crossdressers/transgenders.

Where 20 years ago support group meetings took place in absolute secrecy at people's homes or private venues.. nowadays everything is openly advertised on websites. And half of the support group meetings in the Netherlands happen in bars where the general public also comes to enjoy a drink.

Are gays/lesbians accepted everywhere in the Netherlands.. no! Do some people still point and stare when they see two men or women romantically holding hands while shopping... sure! However, compared to 20 years ago.. lots of progress. This will also happen for the transgender community (to use the umbrella term).

I would actually welcome shows that would treat CD/TG with a bit of humor.. just like Will & Grace. It had its stereotypes but it was light-hearted and (for me) funny. And I'm convinced that it, on average, did raise positive awareness for the gay community.

Does all of this go too slow .. sure.. I totally agree! But the arrow of progress is pointed in the right direction. And every kind of positive exposure is good: good films, tv shows, CD's out in the public, etc.

Not saying everyone should go out and fight for the cause, but... complaining behind a computer on a forum.. progress gained from that: zero point zero percent!

[Amanda22]

Does all of this go too slow .. sure.. I totally agree! But the arrow of progress is pointed in the right direction. And every kind of positive exposure is good: good films, tv shows, CD's out in the public, etc.

Not saying everyone should go out and fight for the cause, but... complaining behind a computer on a forum.. progress gained from that: zero point zero percent!

I could not agree more. Things are changing, and rapidly. Acceptance is faster because some of us move about freely in public. To them, I give a big THANKS.