Question for Canadian Members or Those Who May Know

[Michelle Deere]

As I'm sure you have already Isha, I have searched for news items related to any problems encountered by trans* persons flying in Canada. Plenty of items right after the policy came into existence (and stories about a topless TG incident on Westjet) but nothing else. Surly there have been many trans* flying in the last couple of years?

The other interesting fact about this whole thing is ref "5.2 (1) (c) the passenger does not appear to be of the gender indicated on the identification he or she presents". Funny, both my drivers licence and passport indicate SEX not GENDER. So, technically, by the letter of the policy, it can't be done.
Yep, who ever wrote this needs to be educated, there is a difference.

[Marcelle]

Hi Michelle,

You are right and I am probably getting all spun up for a big non event at the airport as there has been little news since 2012 (I just hope I don't end up as the 2014 poster child ) and I have spoken to others who have flown since it no issue . . . I guess we will see. Yeah I pointed that out to Air Canada as my "passport" and "driver's licence" indicate "sex" which is a biological marker basically assigned via "genitalia". So I asked them "how do you agents verify that?" Nobody responded to my question and they kept going back to gender.

Hugs

Isha

[Annaliese]

On my flight back from North Dakota this week, was the guy hacking the hole flight, there are so much more they should be paying attention to than what someone is wearing. At the airport in ND the TSA made me pull the bag out with all my make up in it, my boss was standing right next to me. I find that smaller airports the TSA go over board and it not about safety.

[Alana Lucerne]

Good luck Isha. I am sure it will go well. I suspect as long as the boarding agent can recognize it is you in the photograph in your id, you will be fine. Remember that most of those photographs are terrible anyway and it could be anyone. I feel insulted when people look at my drivers licence and say they can recognize me. It doesn't look anything like me.... it's some blurry troglodyte.

And if it doesn't go well, and you get busted in Calgary, I'll come bail you out.

Alana

[Marcelle]

LOL Alana . . . I know what you mean about the photos. I'll look you up if I get booted from the plane in Calgary.

Hugs

Isha

[sometimes_miss]

Does that mean CTSA demands that women who wear jeans, boots, and have short hair are not permitted to fly? Or is it OK as long as they are carrying a purse?

We all know that this doesn't apply to women. The double standard about gender is still in full force.

The other interesting fact about this whole thing is ref "5.2 (1) (c) the passenger does not appear to be of the gender indicated on the identification he or she presents". Funny, both my drivers licence and passport indicate SEX not GENDER. So, technically, by the letter of the policy, it can't be done.
Yep, who ever wrote this needs to be educated, there is a difference.

yeah, in a court of law I suppose that's correct, but that won't stop you from going through all the aggravation of being pulled aside to argue your case, and potentially get pulled off the flight while they debate your point.

The easiest thing to do is suck it up and dress how you are expected to dress. You can change when you get off the plane.

^this. After all, we've spent so much of our lives living as standard issue males, what's a few more hours? If you want, wear a nice comfy pair of panties under sweatpants and a t shirt, have a few drinks, listen to some music once they allow mp3 players to be used, bring a board a copy of Cosmo and Glamour, a nice book from recommended reads listed on Seventeen magazines' website, and enjoy a (hopefully) uneventful flight. You'll hardly remember that you're a guy at all.

[Marcelle]

Sometimes Miss,

Not hacking on your post but you and others are missing the point IMHO. Of course I can fly as a "guy, dude, bloke, man" whatever. What we are talking about is a curtail of fundamental rights and something I feel very strongly about. I have spent 32 years defending this country and to be potentially denied basic mobility rights because of the way I choose to express my gender . . . well kind of makes that whole "defence of democracy thing" a moot point. So I choose not to ignore but push the point. If I get bumped then so be it . . . next stop will be to make the country aware of it. Will anyone care what one disgruntle CDer has to say? Probably not. But if I can make one person go "hmm that seems a bit unfair" then I will feel somewhat vindicated. When I signed on to defend my country, it was not just against external threats but also internal threats and those include the erosion of fundamental rights of all Canadians including the Trans community.

Will get off my soapbox now as that was not the intent of this post.

Hugs

Isha

[Robynts]

Isha, even though you are Canadian, I still appreciate all your efforts to stand up for Trans rights both at home in Canada and elsewhere.

You are right about the continuing loss of rights. Most people are afraid of being afraid. As FDR said "we have nothing to fear but fear itself."

So many folks are freely giving up their rights in an effort to be safer, I am sure that you would agree (maybe privately) that the actions taken since 911 are likely to have a very small impact on a smart person committed to doing bad things.

We will give up our rights, one little bit at a time until there are none of any significance left. We will end up like the frog in the pot of water that is getting hotter and hotter eventually the frog is cooked and he never notices.

[Dianne S]

I have spent 32 years defending this country and to be potentially denied basic mobility rights because of the way I choose to express my gender . . . well kind of makes that whole "defence of democracy thing" a moot point.

Isha: You rock. I'm glad we have people like you fighting for Canada.

Back to the point of the regulation: I cannot see how preventing someone from expressing him or her self as the opposite gender has any impact whatsoever on security. Airport security in North America is mostly theatre anyway, designed to make the public feel that at least something is being done.

Enforcing this regulation means: Great, next time there's an attack, we'll know the attacker's "true" gender. Whoopie.

[andreanna]

This whole thing makes me embarrassed to admit that I am Canadian. I cross the border many times a month and Canadian officials are extremely arrogant. Granted I use land crossings but they just seem to think that they a bit better than anyone else. I have been stuck coming into Canada a few times for hours while the "officials" went out for a smoke. Thank goodness that I don't come across dressed. Don't need the hassle.

[Beverley Sims]

Seeing others have weighed in as also being un-Canadian I thought I would add my piece.

There are a lot of Victorian laws still on the statute books and they have just not been upgraded to reflect the times.
I think there is still one for transportation to Austraia if you step out of line.

Gotta luv those Brits.

I go to Montreal in a few days time alsol.

[Tora]

There is a quote.... Those who would give up Freedom for security, deserve neither. Get involved. Society is dealing with new problems. The solution or reaction to the new problems are not always the first or simplest. Bureaucrats go for the CYA solution even if is tough on the 99% who are not the problem.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Heading to the Airport (as Isha) in about and hour . . . keeping my fingers crossed. I'll let you know how it goes when I get back next Saturday (of course unless I don't get on the flight then I'll let you know today ). Will be working quite steady on the West Coast with no internet access so until next Saturday.

Hugs and thanks for all your support.

Isha

[Michelle Deere]

Bon voyage!

will be waiting eagerly for trip details.

Michelle.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

Best of luck Isha and safe travels! I will be hoping you don't have a bit of a problem on your flights. Thanks for your efforts to stand up for all of us.
Hugs,
Steph

[ophelia]

Why fly? To me itt just seems to be a giant wormhole of trouble to attempt to fly enfemme. What do you get out of trying that?
When I dress I want to be as worry free as possible. I don't want to be forced to sit next, or to have someone forced into the seat next to me someone who wouldn't understand...
I don't mean to judge, but inform me as to the point for those who do.

[Alice Torn]

For those like you, who have served your country long and well, and some of us who served short and well, it is frustrating, that they treated you this way. I agree, that canadian border agents can be harsh! I crossed into Canada, south of Cranbrook, in 2003, and they treated me like a possible terrorist, and took every last thing out of my old 1977 Plymouth Volare. I was going to a church fall feast of tabernacles harvest festival.

[ReineD]

I'm sure it will be fine, Isha. Have a nice flight!

[Leslie Langford]

For those like you, who have served your country long and well, and some of us who served short and well, it is frustrating, that they treated you this way. I agree, that canadian border agents can be harsh! I crossed into Canada, south of Cranbrook, in 2003, and they treated me like a possible terrorist, and took every last thing out of my old 1977 Plymouth Volare. I was going to a church fall feast of tabernacles harvest festival.

Alice, you had a 1977 Plymouth Volare that lasted until 2003 (and maybe even beyond that)??? No wonder the border guards were suspicious.

I once had a 1977 Dodge Aspen (the Volare's sister model), which was one of the worst pieces of sh*t ever built and made the Lada and Yugo look good in comparison. Went through 2 transmissions, 3 radiators, and 3 alternators in the space of 6 years. It was particularly fond of stalling unexpectedly at highway speeds or when crossing over bridges causing the power steering and brakes to suddenly go dead. Also, if you listened carefully enough, you could actually hear it rust...

[ophelia]

I haven't crossed the border into the US in decades, but watching a show on Global on Friday nights which deals with border guards has been illuminating. 9/11 changed everything, and now this ISIS business has only made things worse.
What I have learned from this Global TV show is that border guards are now, more than ever, trained to key into nervous or uneasy behaviour. So it follows that unless you plan to cross totally at ease with your look and walk and everything...you are going to get the Royal Canadian Treatment.
We Canadians are nice people once you get past the (dis)honor guard.
Again, my best advice is to enter Canada in drab and enjoy the freedom of our land.

[Eringirl]

Isha?? IIIIIshaaaaa ?? Has anyone seen Isha?? Hoping she made it through....haven't heard anything on CBC....

Hope you are safe kiddo !

As always, so proud of you !

Let us know you are okay as soon as you can....

Erin

[Michelle Deere]

Erin. No news is good news...hopefully..haha.

We all now have to sit and wait until next weekend. Its going to be a long week.

[Alice Torn]

Leslie, Don't faint! I am driving a 1976 Dodge Aspen now, and have had it since 2001! It is my fourth of four Aspens or Volare's i had in the Seattle area. Yes,it has taken constant work, mainly electrical ills. And, the salt on the winter roads here, is causing it to "rust out loud." But, that slant six motor lasts forever , almost! I am too broke to get another car, though, and spent too much on lady clothes! Maybe the border guards did suspect i was a bit odd, for driving that car.

[Bailey420]

No new updates, so I'm hoping no news is good news? I hope your travels were pleasant and uneventful Isha
I can't wait to hear how it went.

And as far as I'm concerned, every time we allow the government to take away any of our rights and freedoms in the name of safety and security, as trivial as they may seem to us at the time, we are moving one little step closer to martial law

[Robynts]

OK, suspense is killing me! Isha, how did your trip go?