Police Identity Check

[Sophie Yang]

The last thing you want to do around a police officer is to act up, act nervous, or freeze. If you have ever been around someone who is acting nervous or suspicious, it probable makes you aware that something is not right and to be a little more vigilant with that person. Police officers are the same way and trained to pick on those clues. The only encounter that I have had with a police officer was a couple of summers ago, I was downtown and asked for directions to the outdoor Red Dress Party.

On occasion I have been asked for ID on entering a night club or while passing through TSA security to catch a flight. Never has been an issue.

[Beverley Sims]

Only pulled over for sobriety breath tests.

That is enough of an adrenaline rush for me.

[sarah-cd]

This is an interesting conversation as I'm sure many people have the same fear. I can tell you as a 15 year veteran of law enforcement in the States most if not all officers have been through training related to dealing with LGBT issues appropriately. I have to echo what Sophie said regarding how you act as suspicious behavior causes us to look deeper and be more concerned about our safety. Honesty is definitely the best policy and if the officer is unprofessional it is best to deal with it through the chain of command at the department, police commission or city/county government rather than push back as that never gets you anywhere good. As far as just stopping you for an ID check, the laws vary from state to state about whether not having an ID on your person is a crime (violation) or not and if it is a reason to stop you while you're out and about.

[Krisi]

Wouldn't it be a violation in every state to not have your driver's license with you if you are driving?

I've always thought that if one of us is going out with our wife or girlfriend, it would make more sense to ask her to drive. Alone, of course, you don't really have a choice.

[Phoebe]

Wouldn't it be a violation in every state to not have your driver's license with you if you are driving?

I've always thought that if one of us is going out with our wife or girlfriend, it would make more sense to ask her to drive. Alone, of course, you don't really have a choice.

In Minnesota I believe if you do not have your drivers license when asked by police they will issue a citation. Depends on the town or village in some cases on citation. In my town you can appear in court and present your drivers license to the judge. The judge my forgo the violation fee if you convince the judge that forgetting to have drivers license in possession was a lapse in judgement. However the violation may be placed on drivers license record.

Was stopped for a headlight out at night, presented my drivers license even though it showed M as the sex. I was dressed in female attire with a wig and full makeup. Nothing said about my attire and presentation as female by the officer who stopped me. The officer checked my drivers license record. Record was clear so he issued a verbal warning to have the headlight repaired so not to get stopped again.

Phoebe

[sarah-cd]

I should've been a little clearer, if you're driving you do need to have your license. It varies from state to state whether you need an ID on your person when out walking or a passenger in a car.

[biannne]

I live in middle of Texas (Austin). I was originally from NYC. That alone is enough for most cops to stop my car (personalized plate). I have been stopped 3 times since I moved here for the most ridiculous reasons ... "not using the turn signal during lane change at 2am on I-35 when there was not another car for miles around me", "waning to know what I was doing in the neighborhood when I live only four houses down from where I was stopped" ....

Only one was those times was I dressed as Anna. So I gave the cop my License and TG ID card even before he started asking question. In almost a rude manner, the cop gave me the TG ID card back without even glancing at it.

But I always carry my TG ID card, whenever and where ever I go as Anna.


- Anna

[sara.rafaela]

Hi, I go out to clubs, at first I was worried about public transportation and taxis dresses, so I drove. I made sure I did not drink more than one. Law enforcement seemed to be a bigger concern. I have been pulled over 4X. Once, I started to turn left into a one way (just barely maybe for 1 second), other times for nothing. I think late at night the officers like to troll for DUIs. In all cases I was subjected to a field sobriety test and in 2 cases a breathalyzer. For the most part, the officers were professional and procedure driven. When I was stopped for the first time I felt an internal panic all through my body. I was so scared. There was nothing I could do. I felt helpless. Supposedly he stopped me for rolling through a stop sign and driving at high speed. This was all a lie. This was one of the occasions that I had to do the whole DUI routine and ended up blowing a 0.0000. In the end, nothing happened, not even a warning. This stop was unique. The next day I returned to the same spot, my hotel. I was returning from a work meeting and was dressed in a man´s business suit. The same officer was there and he followed me. He followed me into the parking lot. When I got out of the car he asked if I remembered him. He kind of hung around until he said "oh yeah, I followed you because your break light is out". I got the feeling he wanted me to go get dressed and then ask him out. It was very creepy.

[Eryn]

I've heard of no place in the US where you are required to have ID in your possession simply to be in public. You certainly need one when driving a vehicle for which a license is required and when participating in age-related activities like drinking alcohol.

I have no doubt that a policeman would give a person considerable grief if that person didn't supply the ID the policeman demanded, but is it actually illegal not to have one? That sounds a bit too much like Germany, 1938.

Does anyone have a citation of a law or ordinance in the US that requires ID to be in public?

[Majella St Gerard]

what the hell is an identity check?

[Katey888]

I have no doubt that a policeman would give a person considerable grief if that person didn't supply the ID the policeman demanded, but is it actually illegal not to have one? That sounds a bit too much like Germany, 1938.

Does anyone have a citation of a law or ordinance in the US that requires ID to be in public?

Eryn, I think most Western democracies subscribe to the principle of freedom of movement for its citizens - some, however, do still have a law regarding that of identification to support that freedom. Coincidentally, Germany is one of these that has a law of personal obligation to possess either a passport or an ID card. In the UK (similar to North America, I believe) if challenged by the law you may be required to prove your identity and in circumstances where an officer of the law has reason to doubt the veracity of the information you can be detained until proof is obtained. The easiest way to avoid this, of course, is to carry ID. If you travel abroad much you will know that most countries usually require non-citizens to carry ID (normally their passport) all the time as they would have to be able to prove both their identity and their legal right to be in the country (generally via a visa) if they were challenged by local law enforcement. I can imagine a lot of US citizens never bothering to understand this about other countries but there are some where you could just end up in clink for a day or so without appropriate ID... and there are some countries where that wouldn't be pleasant, even in Greater Europe...

I think you'll find that the OP is probably in the far east (as we still call it, here on the meridian.. ) and possibly in one of the larger cities - more liberal, but with laws similar to those of Germany (China, Malaya, Singapore would all fit this pattern). The poster is clearly quite used to routine ID checks and the professionalism and courtesy of the police seems quite refreshing bearing in mind the broader reputation of police in some far-flung regions.

Katey x

[MelanieAnne]

In my state back in the seventies we would often have to stop for a vehicle survey. They always asked "where ya coming from and where are you going?

It's none of the cops business where you are coming from or where you are going! When you are stopped, you need to provide a valid drivers license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance. That's all!
"Where are you coming from"? Back that way! "Where are you going"? Down that way! Are you investigating a crime, or just fishing, officer?

[Paulacder]

Accidentally drove into a sobriety check point late one evening. A female officer asked if I could walk a line with those heels on, I replied "Sure"..She said back, have a good evening and be careful.

[Krisi]

It's none of the cops business where you are coming from or where you are going! When you are stopped, you need to provide a valid drivers license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance. That's all!
"Where are you coming from"? Back that way! "Where are you going"? Down that way! Are you investigating a crime, or just fishing, officer?

A police officer who stops you can make things easy for you or very difficult for you. It's his or her choice. Cooperate and you will be on your way as soon as possible. Challenge the officer's right to stop you or challenge his/her right to ask questions or give smart aleck answers and you could be waiting a long time while the officer runs your ID and registration. He or she is more apt to find something to charge you with if you are uncooperative. And while you might think you can beat the charge, you will have to take time to go to court to do so.

These folks are doing a very difficult job and a very risky one. They never know if they will be coming home to their loved ones at the end of their shift or end up in the hospital or the morgue. Try showing some respect, it will go a long way.

[Adelaide]

I was pulled over a few weeks ago. The police officer greeted me with a "good morning ma..am" because of my long hair! I had no make up on...but felt like a million bucks!

[LydiaL]

Getting stopped while dressed could be a frightful rush. Guess I would hike up my mini skirt (or mini dress) a little bit more and hope for the best... whether male or female officer, you never know!

[Luciana]

This is one of the reasons why I never would dare to go out in public. I live in Brasil and it is a common practice to have your car stopped in police barriers (they call it 'blitz' here). Normally it happens for car theft or delayed documentation check (they ask only for driver's license and car papers) or if they are chasing drunk drivers and in this case they may ask you to blow their stuff (sorry for the pun!).

Of course if I am dressed and made up like a woman in such occasion a stupid officer may get puzzled and ask for my personal identity and even ask me to get off of the car. It wouldn't be funny in absolutely no aspect, specially because I live in a small town and I wouldn't like to be recognized by a known person. I definitively don't have the nerves to go out in such venture!

[AllieSF]

Luciana, I remember those periodic traffic check points when I lived in Piracicaba, State of Sao Paulo. They normally would set them up near the middle and then the end of the month when the workers would get paid (twice monthly). They would stop people to see if they could get some type of bribe out of them, because many people seemed to always have some type of documentation problem especially in the interior of the State outside of the big cities. I was stopped several times until they started to remember the Americano in the orange Fusca!

[Luciana]

Luciana, I remember those periodic traffic check points when I lived in Piracicaba, State of Sao Paulo. They normally would set them up near the middle and then the end of the month when the workers would get paid (twice monthly). They would stop people to see if they could get some type of bribe out of them, because many people seemed to always have some type of documentation problem especially in the interior of the State outside of the big cities. I was stopped several times until they started to remember the Americano in the orange Fusca!

It may have been a LOT of time ago. Maybe the 80s? I kind of remember of such things happening, but you cannot bribe police officers here. At least not nowadays and since the past 20 years... Well, you can try but probably you will be arrested! So if you have a friend that is coming to Brasil and have the intention of drive here, please do NOT advice him about bribing unless you want to see your friend in trouble! LoL!



Also blitz here happens all the time. It may happen at any time of the day or night and you never have a clue when it will be. Normally the officers will be polite and quick. If your papers are OK you will be back on your way in less than a minute. I was with my wife last Sunday and we were stopped in the middle of afternoon. However, if your car papers or your driver's license is out to date you will be ticketed and your car will be towed. No excuses. No conversation. AND NO BRIBES!!!! I had a such awful experience a couple years ago. My car document was delayed and that's what happened. I was with a lot of supermarket stuff in the car and had to call a cab to go home. The day after I had to pay for the updated papers, pay the ticket and then go to the deposit to pick my car (and of course pay for the night).



In big cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro the verification may be a bit more hard. If they are looking for weapons or drugs they may want to ask you to open the trunk and such. I never passed for this though.



I had a funny experience about 10 years ago. I was piloting a motorcycle and was stopped on a blitz. The officer asked for my papers (I gave my car driver's license but I didn't have a motorcycle drivers license at the time) and pretended that I didn't know that I couldn't pilot a bike without a proper license. Of course the officer knew that I was lying. But instead of tow my bike and ticket me, he just kept for 15 minutes telling me how important was I have the proper license, etc, and that I could get in trouble if I get involved in an accident not being properly licensed, etc, etc. At the end he told me to go away and when I left pushing my bike with the engine off he told me "Hey, turn on this engine and go away... just make a favor for the two of us... get your license!". The day after I was entering my documents to take the exam and get my bike license!

[Eryn]

A police officer who stops you can make things easy for you or very difficult for you. It's his or her choice...These folks are doing a very difficult job and a very risky one...

So, the perceived risk of the job justifies routine abuse of authority?

This justification is self-serving, and the risk is actually a myth. In the US the mortality rate for police is 16 per 100,000 with the majority of these deaths due to driving, not violence. This is a similar rate to construction and maintenance workers. In California the rate is even lower for police and deputies, at 4.9 per 100,000, on a par with plumbers and mechanics. The fact that police are armed and assume that every person they encounter is a danger makes encounters much more dangerous for the person they approach than for the officer.

An airline pilot faces a mortality risk over three times as high as a policeman, and farmers and truck drivers over twice as high, yet members of these professions don't use their risk as a justification to abuse the rights of others.

I know some pretty good cops, and I used to do a lot of volunteer work with them in disaster communications. Unfortunately, this exposure revealed a pervasive tolerance of routine lawbreaking by members of the "brotherhood" and an overall attitude of superiority over mere "citizens." This is not healthy for our society and the rapid militarization of the last 15 years hasn't helped at all. Officer Friendly is no more.

If I am approached by the police I keep both hands on the wheel, say "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" and hope that I haven't encountered a bad apple. I can hope that the officer is well-trained about dealing with TG individuals, but the fact is that we are at their mercy. The only way to mitigate the danger is to avoid situations that lead to encounters. This is increasingly difficult now that "show me your papers" is so common. Waze is my new friend!

[Jenny Doolittle]

A police officer who stops you can make things easy for you or very difficult for you. It's his or her choice. Cooperate and you will be on your way as soon as possible. Challenge the officer's right to stop you or challenge his/her right to ask questions or give smart aleck answers and you could be waiting a long time while the officer runs your ID and registration. He or she is more apt to find something to charge you with if you are uncooperative. And while you might think you can beat the charge, you will have to take time to go to court to do so.

These folks are doing a very difficult job and a very risky one. They never know if they will be coming home to their loved ones at the end of their shift or end up in the hospital or the morgue. Try showing some respect, it will go a long way.

Thank you Kris, You get it! I was a cop for 28 years, and my son is now a rookie cop..... I can not tell you how difficult some people can be, and on the other hand how wonderfully rewarding helping someone else in need can be as well. It are those rewarding moments that makes being a cop so worth it all!

[Krisi]

Eryn, apparently, you have had one or more bad encounters with the police and carry a grudge. You quote "statistics" but you don't justify them. If you have been keeping up with the news, you should be aware that some hate groups in the USA have targeted police officers for execution. How would you like to be doing your job, knowing that someone could ambush and execute you at any time?

But, you keep on believing what you believe, I can't change your mind.

[Sarina Curtis]

In Japan all foreigners are required to obtain and carry a Residence Card. It's issued to you when you arrive with a work or work holiday visa (right at the airport apparently). Any police officer and some government officials can ask you to produce this card at any time. Like other posts in this thread suggest, those I do know who have been checked say that if you're polite and co-operate you're on your way quickly with a minimum of hassle. It's never happened to me even once in 15 years though and as I have only been out fully dressed once I can 't comment on how transgender people would be treated. What's kinda funny is that though I've never been stopped, a buddy of mine gets stopped a couple times a month.

[Eryn]

Eryn, apparently, you have had one or more bad encounters with the police and carry a grudge. You quote "statistics" but you don't justify them.

Most of my encounters with the police involved working with them and they were not unpleasant. Working among them and hearing their unfiltered remarks about "citizens" was an eye-opener.

In this case I am concerned when I see routine abuse of power justified by the myth of danger.

How would you like the statistics "justified?" They are out there for all to see, at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. If you would like the data in easier-to-understand form just Google "10 most dangerous jobs."

If you have been keeping up with the news, you should be aware that some hate groups in the USA have targeted police officers for execution. How would you like to be doing your job, knowing that someone could ambush and execute you at any time?

Someone could ambush me at any time at my job and indeed several people in my profession are ambushed and murdered each year. We are expected to work unarmed and I am fine with that. I understand that every profession involves a certain risk, and I don't feel the need to exaggerate the risk of mine.

The point here is that some police do abuse their ability to "make life rough" on those they deem not sufficiently subservient. This also applies to anyone who might displease the officer simply by being, such as a transperson. Such behavior is blamed on "the bad apples," but it is largely tolerated by their colleagues unless the incident becomes publicized.

[Luciana]

I think that although the authority doesn't justify abuse, there is the fact that compliance cannot be ignored.

Some time ago I watched a Candid Camera episode when there was couples lunching at a fast food and then someone approached and after to say that was in a super-rush, blah-blah-blah, just asked them to leave as he wanted to use their table. Of course they said 'NO'. Then another couple was approached by a cop in uniform with the same story and they just leave and gave the table. They repeated the test several times and the result was always the same.

People has this impulse of being more colaborative and even tolerant some 'abuse' when the other people is using an uniform and clearly on duty.