Yes it was an education slogan but it does apply to men as well in a lot of other fields.
Yes it was an education slogan but it does apply to men as well in a lot of other fields.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
Can I say humbug yet again? I've helped raise 4 kids. Two boys and two girls. They are much smarter, much better educated and much more accomplished than I am. And I know lots of other kids who are similarly advancing.
There are schools, and certainly even states where there seems a deliberate effort to undermine the quality of education. And frankly, I suspect that the deliberately addictive nature of video gaming may be damaging the brains of young men.
Look at college admissions and graduations. Women substantially exceed men in both. Look at law and medicine....same story. Is that because the schools encourage people to follow their dreams, or is it because young women are less likely to waste their time on "virtual" reality?
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Can I say humbug yet again? I've helped raise 4 kids. Two boys and two girls. They are much smarter, much better educated and much more accomplished than I am. And I know lots of other kids who are similarly advancing.
There are schools, and certainly even states where there seems a deliberate effort to undermine the quality of education. And frankly, I suspect that the deliberately addictive nature of video gaming may be damaging the brains of young men.
Look at college admissions and graduations. Women substantially exceed men in both. Look at law and medicine....same story. Is that because the schools encourage people to follow their dreams, or is it because young women are less likely to waste their time on "virtual" reality?
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
I raised both my daughters on my own and I always told them if they put forth the effort they could achieve whatever they wanted and they did just that.
That's the key, isn't it Tracii....putting in the effort!
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
I'm sorry for venting but I see girls, and quite a few wearing what ever they want with somewhat boys hair cuts and no makeup to full fem.
But at this point guys can not go full fem!
"This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
Much more fun than fishing.
I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?
I am in a 99% female dominated profession, so it can be done. It was never an option that was promoted to me growing up (granted it is a rather niche field), but neither was cosmetology.
Telling children "they can be anything they want" is right up there with telling children they are "special". Everyone is unique, not "special". Everyone has limitations no matter how talented one may be. Michael Jordan wanted to become a professional baseball player but he washed out.
Ever notice girls are told they can do traditionally male professions, but pushed towards only those traditionally male jobs that are "prestigious"? Most sanitation workers are male, but when was the last time girls were presented that as a desirable option? And why not, they get paid reasonably well and they are as important to society as doctors or lawyers or computer scientists. They are critical to the health of society, that is pretty important!
Lets go back to the OP, as Judy said in #30, she was venting about guys "not being able to go full fem". She clearly was NOT expressing resentment against women or children. I'm troubled by the notion that anyone would resent words of encouragement....and frankly a bit annoyed by the tendency of old people to denigrate the supposed deficiencies of the next generation. And, Vickie, to suggest girls are pushed toward professions ignore the fact that women had to fight for even the opportunity to pursue such careers.
To Judy S's point, yes its unfair that men cannot go out fully dressed and made up as women. Perhaps someday, no one will raise an eyebrow.
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
Well no actually, a guy in the western world can go full femme anytime they like. I did it all day yesterday. There is no law against wearing any clothes you like as long as cultural modesty is ensured. Chuck on a dress and go out like a bloke and you may get the odd stare but you CAN do it. Only you are stopping you or you are letting others stop you against your will. Until people here stop this 'it's not fair' constant moaning and actually get out and do it a bit more it will never be mainstream. Lots of people present everday in non-mainstream attire, goths, steampunk, skins, mods, rockers, punks, you name it. I sometimes give a closer look out of interest but that is all. They have no problems but what they do have is the confidence to be what they want. All those members here who think 'it's not fair' should grow some and get some confidence. What do you actually want, I mean if men wearing dresses was actually normal they wouldn't be womens' clothes anymore, just unisex, so would you still want to wear them as much? Good question eh?Originally Posted by Judy-Somthing
Well, they can. I do it, many other members do it, you just need the cajones (tucked of course...) to do it.
Here today, gone tomorrow....
I have constant contact with people who want to be something for which they have neither the ability nor the work-ethic to become. My advice is always, "Give this up and find something you're good at." You can't be anything you want to be. But if you're good at something, you shouldn't be prevented from doing so for spurious reasons.
I never understood the "men can do this" "women can do this" idea. On the whole, men and women are intellectual equals. The latest data from the "no child left behind" programs shows that earlier ideas about the differences between men's and women's intellectual capacities were completely wrong. This pretty much coincides with my personal experience. I've had the opportunity to work with a number of exceptionally talented women. In fact, I prefer working with women because they (usually) don't waste time trying to prove that they're the smartest guy on the project. Even as a child I never understood why men and women shouldn't be considered equals.
I'd be willing to bet that my wife would leave me!
"This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
Much more fun than fishing.
I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?
If that is the case Judy does she actually love you the person?
Does she only love what you look like on the outside or does she only want you around to use you to her benefit?
disclaimer:
My comment is not bashing any certain person or member its just a question towards Judy.
Others please don't assume I am talking about you because I am not.
I sometimes find much of what is said about the changing roles and opportunities for women in the 21st century starts out by belittling what valuable and essential contributions to society womankind have made in the past. Indeed that role was not properly valued and acknowledged yet it was nevertheless very important.
It's wonderful to see women head major corporations, be senior judges and so on but I often think of my Mother who toiled ceaselessly during 6 years of war to make sure her family was safe, well-fed and were well educated. It was not glamorous but it required dedication, energy and great inventiveness. Also it needed great courage as she was alone during many of those scary nights as bombs were dropped around her home. And somehow the best description we can come up with is "Homemaker". Surely a weak description of what was required.
I agree Consuelo well said but that was a different time and women aren't like that any more.
While this is certainly true, it has been shown that men and women process information, and perform tasks, differently. Women are much better at multi-tasking while men are much better at pursuing single goals. These differences are seemingly hard-wired into us - sure there are exceptions on both sides of the aisle, but very generally speaking there ARE differences between men and women.
Ambigendrous
Wealth should not be measured by how much you have, but by how little you need - anon
Well Maybe soon they will let some Boys join the Girl Scouts !
They have way cuter Uniforms !
Scouts.jpg
Judy,
OK what is the bottom line , if you were given the chance would you go out and about dressed if so how much ? I assume you don't want to transition but just want the freedom to dress as you wish . In that case your wife would not be losing out , she's not going to lose you not unless your CDing is the excuse she's been looking for .
I've said this before but I separated from my wife because she couldn't live with my CDing needs and I couldn't live without them . It's working out just fine for both of us , we are happier with the situation now living apart than trying to hold it together as a couple. There's no talk of divorce just comfortably living apart . At some point you will have to make this decision for yourself , your wife is just going to keep on torturing you until you've made a stand . Venting here might help sometimes but you can't continue to live life like this , what about your needs ?
Teresa this is the way men are they suffer in silence and never stand up to their spouse.
Judy, I agree. I see far more GG's , especially over 59, that have short male type haircuts, especially around the ears, and i do double takes at times, to discern whether they are guys of gals, or TG. It saddens me to see them having their beautiful hair sheared off and thrown away. Certainly, females can dress or do any look they want, and it is accepted, but men are far more limited yet.
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I was a gravedigger for a while. i have never seen female gravedigger yet.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying girls shouldn't be whatever they want I think they should.
I just think it's not equal that when a girl wears what looks to be boy clothes no one thinks anything about it but, if I showed up to work in a summer dress, lets face it, all hell would break loose!
"This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
Much more fun than fishing.
I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?
Well what are you personally going to do to change that Judy?
I dress how I wish every day. Womens clothes and shoes are all I have.
All hell has not broken loose quite the contrary, even my friends are used to it so its not even mentioned.
As we have said before the clothes those women are wearing are womens clothes not mens clothes.
Disclaimer:
I was talking to Judy so please If I have triggered you sorry but I wasn't talking about you.
Last edited by Tracii G; 05-05-2018 at 07:53 PM.
I agree 110%. The closest I cam was to become an RN. But I still have the label of a male nurse. AUGHHHHH!
Judy, I understand the frustration...Hell, I live with it. But in reality I do live in a box of my own creation. Yes, like you I make choices as to who gets to know and who I try to hide from. I make the choices because I perceive them to be my best options...
but I do have options...as do you. The question always remains, which do you choose?
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Judy, I understand the frustration...Hell, I live with it. But in reality I do live in a box of my own creation. Yes, like you I make choices as to who gets to know and who I try to hide from. I make the choices because I perceive them to be my best options...
but I do have options...as do you. The question always remains, which do you choose?
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
Something that is overlooked is the fact that it takes 2 incomes to support a family these days due to the extremely high cost of housing and other necessities. This started in 1978 when real estate started rising at an unprecedented rate due to baby boomers buying housing and competition pushing the prices upward. Before then most households were single income with mom staying home and taking care of the children. Most kids became "latchkey kids" with some unfortunate results. Good manners and simple courtesy nearly disappeared from kid's behavior because mom isn't there to correct their mistakes at an early age. I think there are many women out there who would be thrilled to be able to spend their time at home with their children, but it's just not economically feasible for most.
It has always been possible for women to choose any profession the wished as long as they were capable of gaining the knowledge necessary. It just was less usual than now.
ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!
"The important thing about the bear is not how well she dances, but that she dances at all." - Old Russian Proverb (with a gender change)
Judy,
You are basically seeing it from your wife's perspective , that's what she would expect to happen because she just doesn't want you to dress . That is exactly how my wife still sees it and I have proved like many others here that it's totally incorrect . OK I'm not faced with a work environment but in the UK like I'm sure most of the US it wouild now be discrimination .
All hell doesn't break loose , in fact not much happens at all , for most of us that's what we wish for , we can just be us dressed as we choose and be out and about .
As Tracci poses the question what do you do about it ? Does dressing really mean that much to you or do you just like venting about your wife and your DADT situation ?
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