Maybe not unlikely but it can be complex as you've heard here and possibly experienced. I had neighbors who were married with two children and he became she...they stayed married and worked through it all because they loved each other as PEOPLE, regardless of gender.
Enacting life's lessons into positive change...
I don’t think anyone intended to say that, and it’s almost the opposite of my own personal case as I described it below.Originally Posted by kimdl93
If my husband was transgender I presume ( maybe wrongly ) that he as a woman would be very similar to him as a man, allowing for some differences in presentation and socialisation. Ie. She might wear skirts, but I bet she’d still wear nerdy t-shirts. She might have more interest in feminism, but still hold most of the same views. I think I would desire my husband similarly to the way I desire him as a man, if it turned out he was a woman.
This is not because I am cis, but because I am not exclusively heterosexual. Obviously if I were 100% straight and it turned out my husband was actually a woman, I might still her but the desire would be gone. Most women are straight or mostly straight, so it’s hardly surprising that they won’t want to be married to a woman. So I guess if you think lesbian and bisexual women are abnormal your statement would hold, but it would also apply to cis women as well.
In the case of cross-dressers who have male gender identity, it does seem to be the case that extremely few cis women find it attractive in itself, although many love and support the men who are into it and some enjoy it as bringing pleasure to their SO. Obviously CDs present in a variety of ways. In my personal experience, cross-dressers who do not identify as women usually portray more of a male fantasy of a woman, but that might be internet bias. Some CDs, especially those for whom the sexual fetish element is predominant, favour a presentation of women that a lot of women feel is distinctly unflattering even if not intended that way, and I am not at all talking about passing or physical features. But you know, it’s pretty obvious a man with a sexual fetish for CD is going to present as a woman he finds sexy, and it’s pretty obvious a lot of woman find the representation of women in mainstream porn pretty unflattering to women. My husband has a presentation that isn’t totally porny, but is very girlish and frilly, in a way that I think is attractive to many more men than women. It is very different to the way he acts and expresses himself as a man. I would not be attracted to a cis or trans woman like that. I might be attracted to him if he cross-dressed similar to women I do find attractive. I don’t know. I don’t know if very heterosexual women think of it the same way.
But this is all about sexual attraction because of the last few comments. There’s a lot more to companionship. Most cis women here are in loving relationships with men. I am too, even if we are having some trouble right now.
MoGG you bring up a great point!
Just because a MtF CD, TG or TS presents as a woman, it does not mean that she will change political opinions, change career choices, change music choices, change tastes in what to read, eat, etc, etc, etc. A friend of mine transitioned years ago. She is not a tall woman (shorter than me), but she was a builder with lots of skill before transition. After transition she continued to do home renovations. Before transition she rode bicycles avidly. She continued to do so after transition. My own SO is the same person with the same tastes, the same opinions, the same beliefs, whether presenting as a man or a woman. We talk about the same things whether dressed or not. Maybe this is why it always has been so easy for me to accept my SO.
And so why should a MtF CD, TG or TS, if they opted for sensible clothes when in male mode, turn it completely around and opt for frilly, frou-frou stuff or revealing sexy clothes in girl mode. Or if they walk normally in male mode, why would they suddenly sashay down the street wiggling their bottoms in female mode. If there is a huge change in personality, clothing style, mannerisms, etc, between dressed and not dressed, then in my view it speaks more to dressing as a fetish than a need to express a degree of femininity or vulnerability that many men are afraid of expressing in public. A CD, TG or TS who completely changes their personality style and dresses and acts like a vamp or a sex kitten, merely expresses what as a man, his hormones dictate he finds appealing in a woman. When he does this, he is in fact appealing to his own male sexual instinct.
Last edited by ReineD; 06-11-2019 at 08:48 PM.
Reine
My question is whether a heterosexual (or bisexual) transgender person (MTF) (to distinguish from a CD person) must be perceived as a necessarily a criticism of his partner? If one doesn’t present as a vamp, sex kitten or some other stereotypical, sexualized representation of a woman... must the TG person’s presentation be viewed in the same light?
I know, it seems the question answers itself.
Clearly, my question as a transgender person can’t help but overlap with the related questions posed by CD people. I understand the reaction of women to what I would agree are caricatures of female sexual attractiveness. I don’t mean to say this as a criticism of the CD (or whatever) who finds gratification in this form of self expression, but I know that from a female perspective, hyper feminine and sexualized dress represent more of the same objectification, the same assault on self image, and the same threat to ones sense of desirability.
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
Trans women are women, so the terminology gets a bit confusing for me. Do you mean people who feel they are only partly trans or identity outside a gender binary? I was at great pains to say I think I would be attracted to my partner if he happened to be a woman, trans or cis, Reine made it clear that she can accept her partner because he is fundamentally the same when dressed, so we’ve already answered in the negative.
Even with a cross-dresser who identified entirely as a man, who emulates women entirely for fetishistic reasons, whose portrayal is grossly sexist*, whose sexual attraction is entirely self-focused... even that is not a criticism of his partner**. Sometimes people are just sexually incompatible. Sometimes people are just sexually incompatible with all other humans. It is hurtful to a partner who once had, or thought they had, a more mutually desiring relationship. Rejection always hurts, but its not actually a criticism.
*What we are into sexually is socially influenced but rarely a choice. I don’t blame men for being aroused by sexist porn. I blame them if they then think this in any way reflects on what women are really like or how we should be treated. Well, I do blame them a bit when they think pretending to be a woman requires pretending to be stupid, but I’m working on that.
**It can be combined with one though. Most of the members here are kind and thoughtful, but there’s definitely people even here who put women down to make themselves feel superior. Cf all the rants about how unfeminine modern women are.
Ladies - Simple Question : Do you think it is normal Human Curiosity that a young boy might think it would be fun to see how he would look and feel in one of his sisters pretty dresses, Tutus, and dance outfits ? After all his sister seems so happy dancing around in these colorful outfits. This being a boy that had NOT been taught that Girls things were never to be touched by a boy and if he did ridicule and punishment would follow ?
Harder Question : If your young son or grandson showed a curiosity about girls clothes would you play along and encourage him to try something on for fun or scare the crap out of him and tell him to not even think about doing anything Girlish ?
I have no idea, Robbie. My son loved to do things that his sister did but he never had an interest in her clothes. My daughter was more interested in bikes, trains, and Legos than dolls. She had dance outfits but never was that interested in them. She ignored them after the dances recitals were over. My son did not care what he wore, he probably didn't even know where her dance outfits were. They did respect each other's rooms and things. I guess I'm not a good one to answer that question.
My grandson's other grandmother did discourage him (he was about 4 at the time) from trying on his sister's tutu. She is a psychiatrist so maybe she "knew something we didn't know". She basically told him to leave his sister's things alone.
Last edited by char GG; 06-13-2019 at 10:20 AM.
Robbie, there is no abnormal curiousity so by definition, sure. Of course if my child was curious about how taking drugs feels like, I would certainly discourage that, as well as endangering their lives in any way. So there are limits to how much a parent would encourage their children to explore life. But if we are only talking about gender and sexuality, I think all the mums here would allow their children to explore their own boundaries. I don't understand what you mean by encouraging though. Do you mean if I had a son, if I would purposely buy him a dress? I don't think I would do that, unless he asked for one and then we would discuss. For example, my daughter has always been a tomboy. I have always gone along with her lead on toys, clothes and interests. I have always said I am here for anything and everything she wants to discuss and when she reached her pre-teen years, I have openly told her that she can be interested in any gender and to bring anything to the table when she is ready.
That is different though than my position on my relationship. My daughter is of the age when she is discovering her gender and sexuality so hope by the time she is an adult, she will know what/who she is. And she is doing the emotional work to ensure she understands herself first and foremost. As I did when I was her age. It wasn't a bed of roses to do this when I was growing up. Lesbians and TG FtM were not accepted as openly as they are now. I know this from my own experiences with friends, I had both kinds growing up. So my tolerance of people not knowing themselves is quite low, since I believe that people owe it first to themselves and then to those around them to be honest about such foundamental issues. I don't believe it has much to do with parental involvement since this is a personal adventure, regardless of how your parents feel. Ultimately, it's a personal choice when one chooses not to face the questions within themselves in a timely manner. I guess my standards for others are as high as they are for myself and that is propably not a healthy outlook, something to work on for me. So I have a different approach to my child than I do to my bf since I am not his mother. I can be here for him but I can't affect how he goes about it as he is a grown man and needs to make his own decisions, unlike my daughter who I can more actively support. No woman signs up to a relationship to have the role of a mother towards their partner, you are supposed to be co-pilots, not passengers in eachother's lives. So I guess what I am trying to say is that it is my belief that the way your parents "encouraged"or "disencouraged" your interests has little to do with how anyone approaches their gender identity and sexuality. It's more a personal willingness or unwillingness to work on one's self.
Kim, I didn't understand your question.
To Clarify my question - Maybe encourage was the wrong word.
If your son showed interest in his sisters ballet tutu would you simply ask him if he wanted to try it on. Or would you do nothing or would you go as far as Char's relative and discourage him ?
@Robbiegirl
My son will be allowed to choose his own within practical grounds of cost, health and safety and cleanliness. He’s still too young to do much choosing but we try to get him things he prefers. That meant getting him bright pink things when he was very little and more conventionally boyish things now. We try not to encourage him or impose our tastes either way.
As for a hypothetical sister’s clothes he would have to ask her. I certainly wouldn’t let him try them on without her permission. And if I caught any boy or man over trying on anyone else’s underwear without permission I’d certainly tell him off ( appropriately for his age ). It doesn’t take any gender issues to make that disgusting, unhygienic and disrespectful.
No. Are there any comments from GGs in this Q&A session that would lead you to understand that just the mere fact of a MtF CD, TG, or TS presenting as a woman would be perceived as a personal criticism by their wife? My SO has identified in turns both as TG & CD in the past. I am not offended by his presentation, other than at times I wondered if he was wanting to attract men. I myself dress sexily on occasion, specifically to be attractive to the opposite sex. (I don't dress that way just to hang out with other GGs.) There is nothing wrong with dressing sexily, if the GG (or CD, TG or TS) is single or wanting to be pleasing to their SO.
But, female-attracted CDs/TGs/TSs must understand that this doesn't work both ways. Although a GG's husband will appreciate it if his wife dresses to please his male instinct, there is nothing about short skirts, décolletage, form-fitting sweater dresses, high heels, etc, that would sexually stimulate a hetero GG. By definition, a hetero GG is not stimulated by other women, whether they are sexy or not. So if her CD, TG or TS husband dresses that way, it is difficult to not assume the husband is wanting to be pleasing to men.
No, of course not.
Nope. I think the vast majority of boys have no interest in trying on girls' clothes. Most prepubescent boys think that girls and anything girl-related have cooties.
The motive for putting on girls' clothes is initially sexual, for most boys who choose that route. I would explain to my son that he would have a happier sex life later, if he didn't engage his neurotransmitter reward system to associate sexual pleasure with wearing women's clothing. Instead, he might find out what his buddies were sexually attracted to and cultivate sexual arousal for that.
If my son were under the age of 5 when first wanting to wear girls' clothes, I would neither encourage nor interfere. I would let it play out. One of my sons wanted to wear my high heels. It turned out he just wanted to be taller than his older brother. lol
Last edited by ReineD; 06-14-2019 at 01:41 PM.
Reine
I guess the real question then is if a boy is even curious about girls clothes is he already doomed ?
And can boys recover if they make the mistake of stepping into a dress, tutu, or panties. ? Are they doomed ?
Having had 3 sons and lots of experience with having all their friends come to the house to play, and for literally hundreds and hundreds of sleepovers over the years, I'd say the boy who is curious about girl clothes has already learned to associate physical pleasure (if he is too young to have experienced orgasm) with the symbolism that items of girls clothing represent to him. If he continues to indulge, and doesn't confide in someone who understands enough to help him without shame direct the arousal elsewhere , then eventually all those synapses will form and the behavior will embed. Eventually the behavior will become part of his identity.
We live in a rather sexually ignorant society. Parents don't talk to their kids about pleasurable feelings or sex at an early enough age (kids begin to touch themselves and feel physical pleasure at age 3 or 4) and homophobia is rampant, and so little boys who experience the need to try on girls panties or tutus for other reasons than just being curious, feel they must keep it a secret and so they are pretty much on their own to keep reinforcing the behavior. Once established, sexual preferences cannot be changed, especially once they form part of a person's identity.
You might want to read this:
https://sexologyinternational.com/un...sexual-fetish/
Reine
Robbiegirl,
"Doomed" is a pretty harsh sounding word. When I think of a boy/man/girl/woman being doomed it's because they haven't achieved balance in life. Or, they have become reclusive either due to an obsession (whatever that may be), antisocial, or possibly even a mental impairment. It doesn't matter what their walk in life entails, job, pay scale, or education, married, single, if they can be a good member of society, friendly, compassionate, HAPPY, all the traits we enjoy in other people, then I don't think anyone is "doomed".
If someone wants to slink around on the edges of society and complain what a horrible lot in life they have, nobody likes me, poor me, profound guilt, I didn't get what I deserve in life (you know these people), they are the ones I feel are "doomed".
So back to your original question:My opinion would be absolutely not!. If they can achieve life balance and inner peace in their lives, no one is never doomed.I guess the real question then is if a boy is even curious about girls clothes is he already doomed ?
Over the past year, I've come out to about a number of women in the same social orbit. All expressed surprise, but to my great surprise, all have continued as friends, and remain extremely kind and supportive. To my greater surprise, very close personal relationships have emerged. That is knowledge of me as a person, followed by coming out preceded any degree of intimate relationships. It seems, as is often advised on this site, that relationships are possible for a transgender heterosexual if the revelation of gender identity comes before intimacy develops. How did it work in your relationship?
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
I'm not surprised you've made friends who support you, Kim. I think it is easier initially for a GG to support a friend than someone she is romantically involved with. And who knows ... one of these friendships might develop into something more, now that she knows everything?
Reine
In my and Sherlyns relationship we were friends along with a bunch from here that were close friends. We fell in love and the rest is history.
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Back to the Gypsy that I was !
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Just insert any "relationship" in this question. It doesn't matter who you are, when you get to know someone, there is either a connection or not. If you want the connection/relationship to develop and evolve into something more than just casual, you reveal more and more about yourselves. Both parties are either still interested or the friendship remains casual.By Kimdl93
That is knowledge of me as a person
Whether you live your life as a TG (insert whatever label you want to use), and as long as the other party is comfortable with the entire package of a "person", it's a win-win. Maybe it's best not to box yourself into a "label" and just be you.
Since you remain friends with GG's who are kind and supportive, I am going to assume that you are a nice and supportive person in return.
To answer your last question, my relationship was a little different because my husband started CDing late in life... he was my best friend and we had been married for a long time. There was a "new" normal and learning curve.
Many marriages of members in my husband's social group did not survive a late in life disclosure.
Absolutely! There are always people who will go for different types, brunette, blonde, big, small, tall, short etc. The difference between these characteristics and transgenderism is the obvious nature of the former and the often secretive nature of the latter. People will make the choices that suit them and if one is upfront, like you are, more chances of finding someone who will choose you freely. But, as often is evident here, the tg nature is hidden from the tg person and even when revealed to them, can be a while after that that the partners find out/get told. It's like you liking big women and one day realising that your partner is actually wearing a fat suit and you then are asked to bend your preferences because your partner can not handle wearing that suit any longer. I am not going into the why's/ why not's here, just saying that this is the end result. In my relationship, it worked negatively as I am big on trust and need that to invest in a relationship. And due to my bfs disastrous handling of the whole thing, we haven't recovered so my investment is minimal and within strict boundaries (lucky that it's a LDR and my daily life isn't affected). If he was a different person and open about who he was, I don't know how I would have handled it. I might have given him a test drive, I might have not. We'll never know
I will advice caution though, like Reine mentioned. Not every woman who wants to be your friend will want to move beyond the friendzone. Some times, if you are seen like a woman, it will not even cross the mind of a straight woman to even consider you as a potential partner. But as seen by Di and Reine, it can happen! Keep being you, if it's mean to be, it will be. Just like in cis relationships
OK, Serious question. Why do women run like women in tippy toes, arms slightly out, hands out at 45 degree angle, yet at a sports event they run like(this is not PC)….. well like men. If a man would run like women do outside of sports events they would be called gay. This was a real lunch conversation today.
Sorry Kelly, I have no idea. I can't say that I have witnessed this either. Were they running in heels, lol?
I work out at a gym and none of the women there run like that (and there is a lot of running going on there).
I do know what you mean, though, because I've seen it when women are imitating someone else.
@Kelly De Winter
Is this a serious question, or are you parodying Robbiegirl?
If serious, no, I have never seen a woman run like you describe, and I see a lot of women run in the park, run for the bus etc. Everyone I see runs like a typical human. Women running tippy toes, arms out at an angle, sounds like choreography for a 1930s musical, when they are trying to signal “feminine ( and endearingly physically incompetent ).
The only thing I can think is that in some places, women are heavily encouraged to not show any physical prowess in case it makes men feel less superior. My own grandfather was born in Poland in 1916, and was adamant that I shouldn’t carry heavy things in front of men because it would scare them off. Maybe you see a lot of women who have been socialised that way.
That’s if you meant 45 degrees out and down. If their arms are extended upwards and they are going at a rather slow pace, do not let the pancake makeup fool you. Those girls are zombies, and they are out for your brains!
Last edited by MoGG; 06-22-2019 at 09:11 AM.
charGG and MoGG ; Totally serious question. Jeannie and I have been to a number of outdoor events and have seen women running like this in both tennis shoes and heels, to catch a bus, a train, even to get out of the rain. However I've never seen a woman compete in a track meet, softball game or the gym in this manner2019-06-22 14_08_22-Microsoft Edge.png
Ok, when I was looking at the internet to see what on earth you could possibly mean, I did stumble on the video that image was taken from, which is an anti -sexist sports ad, where women are acting out what it means to “run like a girl “ used as an insult, and then showing girls really running, ie. properly as if they are trying to get somewhere.
Maybe it’s a US thing, because I have never come across this idea that women run in a specifically stupid way? I am astounded you have ever seen a woman seriously attempting to run like that. Maybe they were joking?
The other alternative is that some women think looking competent at anything is unfeminine and scary to men. Honestly I think the women you saw were mucking about though, because it would take a serious amount of energy to run that way and you’d end up not going much faster than walking. I guess people attempting to run in high heels might need to put their arms out to balance, but it wouldn’t look like the young woman in the picture - and who runs in high heels anyway, people would take them off and go barefoot before they did that.
Last edited by MoGG; 06-22-2019 at 01:51 PM.
Nope, I've never seen a woman seriously run like the picture.
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