Ask a GG - Three

[char GG]

Just a reminder to the newer people for this section: It's for a question to be asked of the GG's. The GG answers. There is no back and forth discussion in this thread.



TamaraToros,

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

Well, it's a complicated question. Are they really the same? Were they hiding this when they got married or did it "suddenly" come on late in life (as was the case with my husband). It's hard to give a wife any advice without knowing the specifics of the husband's commitment to his wife vs CDing. Maybe they are the same person on the outside but inside has changed. It could certainly vary and/or change. A question that I had when my hubby started CDing was, "what is the end game"? Did he stick to it? Does he secretly or not so secretly want to go further? Is he excited for the wife to leave so he can CD? Does he think that by pushing (which the GG's call the drip drip drip method), that he will somehow get his wife "patterned" to CDing. This is usually an obvious ploy/trick which in my case, would have definitely made me angry, backfire, and not trust any of his answers to my questions.

Each relationship is different and there is no "one answer fits all" to your question.

In my case, my husband has assured to me over and over that he is committed to our relationship over and above CDing. That may not be true for everyone.

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?

You are the only one that can answer this question. Do you love her the same? Treat her the same? Do you think she gets in the way of your CDing? I can't answer any of that.

One of the GG's here met her hubby as a CDer.

[Di]

Great question TamT,
Tell her and show her in every way you can.
I usually say for the cd to say I am the person you love, nothing has changed except now you know everything. Sorry I hid it I was afraid.
Please now that she does know do not go crazy with the pink fog.

[Sashauk]

I would like to pose a question to all the GGs here - how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

A female wearing jeans/trousers (pants) with a button down shirt would provoke no comment if out in public. However, a male wearing a skirt/dress with a blouse or top in public is perceived as being odd or worse.

So why do you think that a lot of women, who would think nothing of dressing in a masculine style themselves, are shocked or offended when they see a man in a dress?

[ReineD]

how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

I don't see it as having double standards. Jeans, trousers, and button-down shirts have become staples of women's wardrobes. They have become a new standard of feminine. It's not the clothes that makes a woman feminine, it's the way she looks in them. Women's button-down shirts are not shaped like men's, they are shaped to flatter a woman's figure. Same with women's slacks or jeans. They are generally tighter, you can tell that a woman has a derriere, and the pockets are useless. You can't even fit a cell phone in them. Also, is the woman attempting to look like a guy? Does she have a guy's haircut, is she wearing men's shoes, is the average woman big like the average guy in terms of height, hand and foot size, neck size, etc? No.

Do you know when the wearing of pants became mainstream among women? It was during WWII because so many women were contributing to the war effort by working while the men were gone. It's so much more practical to wear pants in a factory than a dress. Shoulder-pads became fashionable during the 1940s to emphasize the woman's newly found independence and power. There was a bit of a backslide in fashion during the 1950s after the men came back and life returned to normal, the economy was booming, the middle class was growing, and people were having families. And so women's fashions turned to the ultra-feminine for about a decade, until my generation came along. LOL. We said, "No, thank you". We wouldn't settle for the woman's 1950s secondary role in society. We wanted equal career opportunities with equal pay. Equal power and equal say. And along with that came the appropriate fashion styles, which brought pants back in fashion again. Even shoulder-pads came back for awhile.

So no, women don't dress like men. They dress and look like independent women. You can still tell they are women.

If you asked a trans-man whether he thought cis women wearing today's styles look masculine, I think he'd have a good chuckle. Trans-men wear men's haircuts, actual men's clothes (that are cut differently than women's), and men's shoes. They camouflage their breasts, they don't wear makeup, feminine jewelry or perfume, and they have a masculine demeanor because they want to be taken as men. There's a difference.

[char GG]

Personally, I don't care. I get in and get out.

However, I know many women who are strongly against/uncomfortable with Crossdressers, Transgender, or men using the women's restroom. Of those, some use the public space in the ladies room to change clothes for whatever reason.

Other friends were alarmed at a hotel on Halloween when crossdressers and men came into the ladies room. My friends were suspicious that it was just a ruse to enter the ladies room and very unhappy about it.

I also witnessed a man (on Halloween again), waltz to the front of a line of GG's waiting for their turn. It was brutal! The GG's read him the riot act.

I also have a close friend with strong views against it. She was alone in a public city owned multi stall restroom when a man (possibly a CDer) entered. She was alarmed and angry. She even reported him to the authorities. In her case, I would have been alarmed also.

GG's can't read the minds of CDers who show up when the ladies are alone. Keep in mind that GGs are concerned about their safety and feel vulnerable in restrooms. They do have the expectation that it is a safe space is for GG's.

GG's are the majority in their restrooms. Anyone who is not a GG is in the minority. If a lady has a hissy fit about a man in the ladies public restroom, the authorities will most likely side with the GG.

I also think that in these times, women are very nervous about who they see as men in the ladies restrooms.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but since you asked the question, this has been my experience.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

[Di]

I do not think anything about it and do not care.

As far as OTHERS I witnessed something horrible .I remember a event out ( girls night out for cders ) there was very much a kerfuffle when a some of cders went to the restroom together and alarmed the other guests causing a big scene. A big damper for those involved.



As far as when Sherlyn and I went out , I felt it was only safe for her to use the womans, but she was in and out and did not talk or act like it in itself as a social event ( like I have read cders feeling they had to interact with women in there)
Like the above question men commenting on strangers clothing. Women have to have their guard up from previous experiences in life many ( most) have had with men.
So if read as a man, I think many woman will have their defenses up, not understand and feel threatened. There is just no understanding , as it is not something they have in their life and only see it as a threat .
I think the closeted aspect of a crossdressers life keeping a hidden life does not help the matter.




About the friend transitioning . They are a woman and should be treated as such and the work place might need to educate. Totally not acceptable to be treated otherwise.

[ellbee]

Hi, thank you both for the replies so far!


I do have another follow-up question ( :D ), but first, I'd like to publicly clarify something...

Apparently the M2F transitioner has been using a small, private, rarely-used restroom in another part of the building. I have no idea if it's men's (doubt it), women's or unisex. I also have no idea whose idea it was -- as it could have been the individual's request/choice (perhaps foreseeing the reaction from some of their GG co-workers? ). I'm not familiar with the organization's LGBT policies, but they are a large US employer... No doubt they do have a decent one in place.


I was also curious as to *why* these GG's felt this way -- Is it because of what some have already mentioned, at a general level? Or, is it more individual-specific, as from I understand, this person wasn't exactly the most-liked as a male, even to the point of being considered by some GG's as giving off a bit of a "weird/creepy" vibe?

Sounds like a mix of both, which is what I suspected.


Anyway...

Time for the last follow-up question! :yippee:


Do you think certain variables may sway some GG's one way or another, as it pertains to the whole "CD'er in the women's room" thingy?

For example, take two CD'ers... One is pretty legit looking, on all kind of levels. Femininely fit & trim, 5'7", dressed like a lot of GG's for that time & place, pretty face, seemingly respectful & conscientious, with a femmy build, movement & aura. Heck, if it weren't for that last glance, maybe you (the GG) wouldn't have even realized it was a CD'er!

The other CD'er? 6'3", 265 pounds, built like a linebacker, clearly-visible chest hair sticking out from their top, horrible wig & make-up job, outfit totally out of place, barging in & lumbering around like a big male oaf who really needs to use the restroom.


Perhaps some GG's would be more apt to accept the first CD'er, over the second?


Thanks again! :wave2:

[ReineD]

I don’t mind CDers using women’s bathrooms, as long as they’re in there just to relieve themselves and wash their hands. I understand not wanting to be dressed in men’s bathrooms. I’ve been in all-gender bathrooms where everyone does their business in private cubicles and washes their hands in a common area. No big deal.

I do however object to CDers using the female facilities for kicks, or as they put it, "for a female bonding experience". I’ve read this fantasy many times here. These people seem to get some sort of thrill out of having "girlie" contact with other women using the bathroom, i.e. they imagine complimenting someone’s shade of lipstick (if anyone even puts on lipstick anymore lol), or shoes, etc. Public bathrooms are utilitarian, just like the men’s room. They are not girlie bonding places. I’d be creeped out if I saw a CDer in a public bathroom eyeing me and wanting to start a conversation, or even just dawdling in there. But if he simply did what he had to do, washed his hands and left, like the rest of us, I would not have an issue with it.

As to other GG attitudes, it has never come up as a topic of conversation with my friends. You’d be surprised at how below-the-radar the topic of CDers in women’s bathrooms is, given the very small percentage of MtFs out there (compared to the general population). Some GGs would be OK with it, and others not. We seem to be going backwards in this country with acceptance of LGBTQ and I’m not surprised you’ve encountered negativity.

Your follow up questions:

I was also curious as to *why* these GG's felt this way -- Is it because of what some have already mentioned, at a general level? Or, is it more individual-specific, as from I understand, this person wasn't exactly the most-liked as a male, even to the point of being considered by some GG's as giving off a bit of a "weird/creepy" vibe?

If a GG doesn’t like the coworker as a male, then she won’t like him more if he is crossdressed in the bathroom, or even out in the general office for that matter. This has nothing to do with whether or not this GG is accepting of the LGBT community. And as mentioned above, some people are OK with alternative lifestyles and others are not. There’s no magic formula to determine who will be OK/not OK with it or what percentage of the population is OK/not OK with it, since attitudes are formed depending on political geographic areas, urban (more exposure to diversity) vs rural (less exposure) communities, population demographics such as age, education levels, socio-economic status, religious beliefs, etc.

Do you think certain variables may sway some GG's one way or another …
For example, take two CD'ers... One is pretty legit looking, …
The other … 6'3", 265 pounds, built like a linebacker, clearly-visible chest hair sticking out from their top, horrible wig & make-up job, outfit totally out of place, barging in & lumbering around like a big male oaf who really needs to use the restroom.

I doubt that anyone built like a linebacker as you describe will go out in the mainstream public, let alone go to a female bathroom. I’ve read countless posts here from members who dress strictly at home because they know they do not pass. They might go to a gay/alt club and I’m sure that if they used the female bathroom there, no one would object.

There are very few MtFs who can pass totally as female upon close inspection, and again, some GGs will be OK with it and others will not, depending on all the factors mentioned above.

[char GG]

I work with many young people at a concert venue, so I'm familiar with a blended mix of dressing styles, maybe more than the average person my age who doesn't go out much. I enjoy the eclectic look and style of blended presentations and it doesn't bother me in the least.

That said, my hubby does sometimes wear short shorts while working on an outdoor construction project during the hot weather. He doesn't wander around town in his construction short shorts. It doesn't bother me and I'm not making excuses for him to the neighbors. Some people may think he looks "gay" but I doubt anyone will comment to us about it. Everyone around here minds their own business so all is good.

As far as "attracted" so his feminine presentation..., it's kind of an odd question for me to answer. He didn't start CDing until he was in his 60's, so it was all new to me. I'm attracted to HIM as a person, but I'm not attracted to his "female presentation", but I don't mind his female presentation - two different things.

[Bea_]

I am a mature man with a gray beard and a full head of silver shoulder length hair. usually pulled into a ponytail. Imagine a throwback conservative hippy. I am a straight, monogamous husband and have no desire to ?attract? anyone other than my wife. I have the natural desire for people to think well of me, especially women. But, I?m not looking for any kind of personal connection with anyone. If I ever were attracted to another person (other than my wife) to the point of an intimate relationship, it would definitely be a genetic female, but in 49 years of marriage, there's never been a desire for anyone else.

I don?t feel any inclination to hide the fact that I am a man and I love my beard. But, over the last twenty or so years, I have come to feel a need to balance a strong feminine aesthetic into my male presentation. Unfortunately, the presentation that I?m developing can easily cause assumptions for others that I am likely to be gay. Knowing for myself that I?m not gay would be enough for me, but I feel a deep sense of sympathy/empathy for my wife since any femininity that I?ve shown has been met with reluctant tolerance. I totally understand her position, but it?s become more and more of a barrier in our marriage.

My AI generated avatar gives a glimpse of how I see my ideal self. You have to imagine that image, but take away the idea of being fit and good looking. I have no delusions of being anything other than average in my male presentation and life experience supports that conclusion. My pronouns would be he/him/sir.

What I?d like from the GG?s is a sort of consensus of how you would feel and deal with a husband who presents male, but whose taste would likely cause him to be mistaken for gay when out and about. I know many here have SO?s who present female and I?m wondering if you?d be bothered by a hybrid presentation. I am also wondering if you would find yourself attracted to him as his ?feminine male? presentation evolved.