Ask a GG - Three

[Sashauk]

I would like to pose a question to all the GGs here - how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

A female wearing jeans/trousers (pants) with a button down shirt would provoke no comment if out in public. However, a male wearing a skirt/dress with a blouse or top in public is perceived as being odd or worse.

So why do you think that a lot of women, who would think nothing of dressing in a masculine style themselves, are shocked or offended when they see a man in a dress?

[char GG]

You are probably asking the wrong audience as most of the GG's on this forum are accepting. Another thing is, CDer sightings in the real world are so rare that sometimes people have never seen a man in a dress before.

Fashion for GG's has changed. It wasn't always acceptable for women to wear pants but now it's common and not considered masculine. Seventy years ago, it was perceived as "uncommon" for a woman to wear pants.

I'm just speculating here but most women wearing jeans/pants are not attempting to look like men. It's just the fashion. Many CDers wear their their choice - dresses and skirts- but add wigs, forms, hip pads, high heels, etc. and try to look like (or in the eyes of an outsider "pretend") to be a women. Again, most people in the real world never encounter that look on a man.

We have one particular man on this forum who wears skirts/heels. He makes no attempt to "look" like the other gender overall. He is currently very popular with the news media and has been featured in magazines.

[confused_cathreen]

Questions:

I know it is unfair that a woman does not know that her future husband is a CD, because she was not given the opportunity to choose whether or not she wanted to continue with the relationship, but if she has discovered it already married, do you think she could ever to accept it?

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?

Hi Tam, be aware that I am no longer with my crossdressing ex so my answer is based on that. You said it is a great loss of confidence? In what, did you mean? It was a great loss of trust that was never recovered. It required a lot of work on his part that he didn't have it in him to put into the relationship. So if I have any advice is, don't be him. Realise that this is something you brought into the relationship and no matter how uncomfortable it makes you, it's your responsibility to drive. Primarily by asking her loads of questions about how she feels, and then by offering her to set boundaries. Putting her first goes against everything that crossdressing isn't about but in most cases, it is necessary.
Also, a word of advice: when my ex used this line (I am still the same person I was before), my answer was, what person? A liar? Wishing you good luck, you have no control over her acceptance levels but you can make the process easier for her.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

I would like to pose a question to all the GGs here - how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

A female wearing jeans/trousers (pants) with a button down shirt would provoke no comment if out in public. However, a male wearing a skirt/dress with a blouse or top in public is perceived as being odd or worse.

So why do you think that a lot of women, who would think nothing of dressing in a masculine style themselves, are shocked or offended when they see a man in a dress?

Hi Sasha, I am not sure what you mean by double standards. Everyone is free to wear what they want, women don't have any more freedoms than men do. You think people are shocked or offended by you going around wearing whatever you want? How do you know that? I have seen a few crossdressers out, I haven't seen anyone react in any of these ways that you mentioned. A big part of course is what char mentioned, you are not just wearing clothes, are you? You try to pass as a female. Completely different beast. That's what might make a person look twice. Recently, I passed a crossdresser/tg in the street. We are all wearing masks here, so it wasnt their face that gave them away. I don't know how to explain it, they tried too hard to pass? That's what made me do a double take, I wasn't sure what he/she was. But there was no shock or offence there, there was only a brief moment of wonder and I went on my way.
Also, I would like to point out that I have never in my life worn man's trousers or shirts. Always women's. Hope that clears things up.

[Di]

There is no double standard you can wear what you want.
There might be circumstances where you might feel that is l so.
Since so many are closeted crossdressers, it is hidden .
Ones that lie or hide it from the wife/ gf...who’s fault is that?
Things will never change with cders feeling ashamed and hiding it .
Wear what you want






The double standard that CDs say really annoys me……wear what you want !
Do the work to make it known, acceptable?.stop with the excuses.

Like the others have said
Women are not trying to look like a man….women are wearing their own clothing that they bought….apples and oranges here.
Again
Wear what you want !

While I am on a tangent…..the ones that say my wife never wears a dress blah blah blah…….SO WHAT …wear what you want and let her wear what she wants.. You do not like it when you think people are judging you for your choices in dress …who are you to criticize others and what they wear?
AGAIN WEAR what you Want!



Not saying any of the scenarios above are you but they are annoying when cders say such nonsense.
END RANT

[Dutchess]

I agree totally with everything said here . ^^^^^^^^^^^

That being said my history with men since 1975 has HAD to include men who are very androgynous so somehow they didnt get the message that it wasnt ok to dress as they want ,,most VERY flamboyantly with every color and pattern and fabric under the rainbow , have VERY long hair , wear make up , nail polish , pierced ears and yes lots of body art in my case . I have had no shortage of men like this . So when I see CD'ers and even some transfolk complain about this I just dont understand . Men have been doing their own thing for eons . Its often in the persons mind that they cant wear XYZ .

If you choose boring menswear thats up to you but you can actually wear some really extremely glam stuff in male mode if you open your mind, step outside the box you put yourself in , look in alternative places and stop "blaming society ". Your employer might care , yes ,but general society does not .

The only times I have had a reaction to a cd'er in public is when they are dressed SO inappropriately that I am not shocked or offended but actually question the persons mental health . The last one I saw like that was last fall in a very busy grocery . Wore a one piece backless halter top bathing suit with obvious forms , a short short dance skirt over that , shimmer panty hose with black pumps and he was around 60 . Anyone who wears something like that IS going to get looks . Period . This person simply carried on as normal .

[Stephanie47]

There is a thread open in another section concerning wearing makeup during the extreme heat in Texas. Personally, I do not know any women who use full makeup during an extreme hot weather event. The forecast for today in my area is 105 F. What do you GG's do when it is extremely hot? On a non-event day? Or when there is some social function? No matter what time of the year or occasion my wife is down to lip gloss/lipstick, period!

[Dutchess]

Hi Stephanie ,
Alo of people here know I was born and raised in Texas , 8th generation and I tell you the make up scene there is cultural also . All my female relatives , friends etc wore and wear ALOT of make up no matter the weather . Now that I have lived away from there and the culture a long time I have changed drastically how I wear my make up . They really lay it ON back home and that makes me look much older and is not a good look but again its as much cultural there as anything .

I am 58 now and if I wear foundation its going to be a tinted BB cream (tinted moisturizer) nothing more . If its too hot - its been over 100 all week here and will be 112 today - Ill just wear a liquid concealer under my eyes , sides of my nose , my chin and forehead LIGHTLY , nothing else on my face . Ill do my eyes however I want and I always wear just gloss . You get a certain age and lipstick just looks heavy, gives that funeral home appearance ,plus it feathers and I am not putting on any lip base stuff . I haven't worn blush in many years although I loved our 70s looks . Used lots of blush then but not today .

[ReineD]

how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

I don't see it as having double standards. Jeans, trousers, and button-down shirts have become staples of women's wardrobes. They have become a new standard of feminine. It's not the clothes that makes a woman feminine, it's the way she looks in them. Women's button-down shirts are not shaped like men's, they are shaped to flatter a woman's figure. Same with women's slacks or jeans. They are generally tighter, you can tell that a woman has a derriere, and the pockets are useless. You can't even fit a cell phone in them. Also, is the woman attempting to look like a guy? Does she have a guy's haircut, is she wearing men's shoes, is the average woman big like the average guy in terms of height, hand and foot size, neck size, etc? No.

Do you know when the wearing of pants became mainstream among women? It was during WWII because so many women were contributing to the war effort by working while the men were gone. It's so much more practical to wear pants in a factory than a dress. Shoulder-pads became fashionable during the 1940s to emphasize the woman's newly found independence and power. There was a bit of a backslide in fashion during the 1950s after the men came back and life returned to normal, the economy was booming, the middle class was growing, and people were having families. And so women's fashions turned to the ultra-feminine for about a decade, until my generation came along. LOL. We said, "No, thank you". We wouldn't settle for the woman's 1950s secondary role in society. We wanted equal career opportunities with equal pay. Equal power and equal say. And along with that came the appropriate fashion styles, which brought pants back in fashion again. Even shoulder-pads came back for awhile.

So no, women don't dress like men. They dress and look like independent women. You can still tell they are women.

If you asked a trans-man whether he thought cis women wearing today's styles look masculine, I think he'd have a good chuckle. Trans-men wear men's haircuts, actual men's clothes (that are cut differently than women's), and men's shoes. They camouflage their breasts, they don't wear makeup, feminine jewelry or perfume, and they have a masculine demeanor because they want to be taken as men. There's a difference.

[char GG]

Regarding Stephanie's makeup question: No matter what the weather is, I always wear tinted moisturizer, eye liner, and waterproof mascara. I don't wear any makeup to my exercise classes which are early in the morning.

[Di]

Re the makeup question.
I am retired now and always wore makeup at work ( back in the day ) but now no matter the weather I only leave the house with lippy.
My complexion, ect I really do not need much more.
Unless going out to somewhere special ( rare )
I also feel I look younger without the makeup ……my daughters really wear no makeup either …..I think that is the trend now.


Add
I do understand a cder wearing makeup esp contour…..many cders say they do not feel feminine till they put the makeup on.

[ReineD]

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?

A woman would lose confidence when she finds out her husband is a CDer? She would lose confidence in what, her femininity? I disagree. What her husband chooses to do or not do has no impact on her innate femininity. Or did you mean something else.

In terms of being the same person as always, yes you are - but you’re not the person she THOUGHT you were. So I would ask her what she needs in a husband outside of any crossdressing considerations, and prove to her that you can give her what she needs.

What do you GG's do when it is extremely hot? On a non-event day? Or when there is some social function? No matter what time of the year or occasion my wife is down to lip gloss/lipstick, period!

I wear no makeup at all. I take care of my skin and do my best to keep it looking healthy; not clogging up my pores with makeup helps. For special outings (maybe once per month or two), I wear a light foundation to even out my skin tone with a bit of bronzer on the cheekbones, I darken my eyebrows a bit with an angled brush and eye shadow to match my eyebrow color, and wear a bit of mascara. I smooth out my lips with lip balm, no color needed. It all takes under 5 minutes.

[Robbiegirl]

Ladies before you were in a relationship with a CD did it ever even cross your mind that it might be interesting/fun to see a Boy/Man put on female attire ? Did you ever think it might be fun for Halloween or boredom to have a guy model an old Bridesmaids Dress or out of fashion dress ? When women pretty much had to wear dresses all the time growing up did you ever think it would be fun to see how guys would react if they had to spend a day in female attire ? It does seem like lots of girls dress up their younger brothers growing up and their mothers usually seem to enjoy it so there must be some interest or curiosity in women concerning boys and girls clothing.
Any thoughts would be great, Thanks

[Miel GG]

I think you will be disappointed Robbie.
When I was a child I never disguised anybody, whatever their gender was. I also never imagined it would be fun for any boy to wear a dress, on the contrary I was envious of the pants they wore, free to move, play or even get dirty when I had to stay quiet and pretty.
As an adult I have cursed men/society many times and wished the men had been compelled too to have their hair and make-up done and skirt suit put on at 7 am every day of the year.
Today I just think non binary dress code is good for all of us.

[char GG]

I agree with Miel. You may be overthinking this, Robbie. Only once, I remember my friends and I dressed up my baby brother because we were playing "wedding" and he kept pestering us to play with him. Other than that time, I never gave it another thought.

We were required to wear dresses at school, which I hated. My legs were cold in the winter, it was impossible to hang upside down on the monkey bars without wearing "security shorts", not much fun to swing with a dress that flew around. It was more fun to play in the hayloft and climb apple trees on my grandparent's farm while wearing "play clothes". My best friends were boys and we built go-carts and forts, rode bikes, played in the dirt, played tin can alley, looked for toads and built dams in the creek. All of that would have been difficult to do in a dress. The reality is that when my friends and I got home from school, we would change into shorts/pants that we could play in.

I could have cared less what the boys thought or how they would have reacted if they had to wear a dress. That never crossed my mind.

[Dutchess]

I have to say that I always hope that the mom scenarios I read about here are fantasy and not real .. because Its very wrong . I would never EVER dress up one of my boys and I have 4 of them . If they want to wear whatever then so be it but I would NEVER do something to my kids for my own amusement that could really turn into lifelong problems . This happened to my ex husband it in reality with a close female relative and its not ok .

The rest , no I did not . I was in love with Davy Jones and George Harrison and never once hoped to see them in an old bridesmaids dress . I loved 60's hip male fashions . High end mens clothing from any era can be totally glam ( think Prince , David Bowie , Marc Bolan ) I like that way more than seeing them in womens fashions.

[CharlotteCD]

Questions for the GGs then, which will very much be a personal opinion rather than a group consensus, and possibly all three parts for many.

1) After you found out, but before you saw your SO dressed, how did you imagine them to look - was it that they'd look absolutely ridiculous, or did you imagine them passing?

2) When you saw them, how did you actually respond mentally?

3) Would you have preferred to see them looking like a bad halloween outfit, or would you have preferred a smart/as passable as possible within their body restrictions?

I ask as with my wife knowing, but having never seen me, I do wonder what sort of thing she's imagining in her head! I assume it's that I would look ridiculous!

[char GG]

I will send you a PM, Charlotte.

[Di]

I never know ifI should answer or not since our situation was not the norm.
We met here on the forum, I saw many pictures, we dated as Sher and Di ( met halfway at niagara Falls) only saw the guy side many months in when I had vacation and more time away from work .
We were nervous meeting as guy side and Di. Sounds made up but our journey together is on the forum.
When we talked she expressed wanted to be free and out + live her life as Sherlyn when she wanted. So of course it would be beneficial to blend/ pass.
When she was married and had to hide it ( wife not accepting) she locked herself in the bathroom for long soaking baths??. but she really was practicing her makeup skills ???.she had professional level makeup skills from all those years .
Only thing we had to work on was clothing when out and about. She liked a more sexy short style and that was-cool for clubs or pictures here everyday life clothing was the only change needed.
So long story short / I hoped and wanted the best for her and it was reciprocated.

Your questions
We talked everyday for months on camera and it was always Sherlyn
So I already knew what to expect
I only wanted the best as this was goingto be our life. This might differ where the wife has not seen and the cder is in the closet ?..but this was not our life .

[Dutchess]

Hi Charlotte , I have two answers for each , because I had two folks in my life like this and each was very different ...

1. My ex hsband never told me . I did ask because something was not right but I didnt know what ( I even asked before we married and he VEHEMENTLY denied anything was amiss) anyway the first time I knew anything about him dressing , I caught him in my clothes "entertaining himself " in front of a computer screen full of unmentionables . I can tell you I really almost fainted , literally my heart felt weird i my chest . It was bad , so many things were explained right there and it was painful . We really could not recover . He had such a hard time with reality / the truth at he even tried to tell me I was not seeing was I was presently seeing lol

My late fiance I knew from the start dressed , I met him through someone here and I was fully aware . It was obvious he was male but he was really androgynous looking anyway. He was so beautiful I didnt even notice the clothes plus he had his own super long hair .they both did so no wigs involved . knowing right away helped like with Sher and Di .

2. My ex husband as I said I was VERY faint the first time but you can probably see why . My late fiance I just wanted to see him in person and give him big kisses !!! but I certainly didnt tell him that .....

3. I dont think any of us ( the GGs ) want to see our companions / husbands etc in these highly sexualized outfits / the skinny jean thing that some here think are sexy or what women wear etc . My exhusband would only wear these outrageous things an I was so ashamed that I wouldnt go out with him but he never stopped . I was really repulsed . Plus he would steal our ( my daughters and my own ) clothing and hide them or sometimes be so jealous he would trash our things .

My fiance would wear long skirts with cami's in the summer and sweaters in winter and that was ok . He would wear very expensive clothes which just looked better anyway and would also wear unisex clothes like really high grade chic skiwear ( he was a semi pro skier ) He would also buy me lots of beautiful clothing that I have now. Me more stuff than he would buy himself . The way he treated me was just so much better that the clothes were really secondary .

[CharlotteCD]

Thanks so much for the responses and PMs, fascinating!

[ReineD]

Ladies before you were in a relationship with a CD did it ever even cross your mind that ...

I have a younger brother and it never occurred to me, not even once, to dress him up as a girl. As to the rest of your questions, it's a big no to all of them. Until I met my SO, I thought that men dressing up as women were weird. I had already developed a big crush on my SO before I knew about the CDing, which is the reason why I continued the relationship after he told me. I was into him enough to give it a chance despite the CDing. When I love someone, I don't try to change them - I respect and accept who they are, just as I appreciate it when they respect and accept who I am. And if there is something about either of us that neither of us can live comfortably with, then we compromise.

1) After you found out, but before you saw your SO dressed, how did you imagine them to look - was it that they'd look absolutely ridiculous, or did you imagine them passing?

2) When you saw them, how did you actually respond mentally?

3) Would you have preferred to see them looking like a bad halloween outfit, or would you have preferred a smart/as passable as possible within their body restrictions?

I imagined that he would look the same, except with makeup and female clothes, which he did ... just as I look the same, whether or not I have makeup on and no matter what I wear. I responded mentally by accepting the CDing. I would not like my SO to dress like a tart. I don't dress like a tart and I don't hang out with GGs who dress like tarts.

[ellbee]

Quick question...


Any GG's here still do the Halloween costume thing?


Fess up! :p

[char GG]

Yes!

We usually go to a large Halloween party in a large town near us. Also, there is an adult Halloween night parade nearby that we sometimes attend. I dress up in costume for both events.

I also love to wear my light up shoes to the night parade.

Many of the moms in our town wear costumes to go trick-or-treating with their kids.

It's all just fun.

[Dutchess]

No but its because I celebrate Samhain on that day so I have an outfit for that but its a little different. Plus I lost my partner as most know so Im kind of timid to still go out by myself yet . I am getting better though .
ALL my grown kids still love Halloween though and wish it were everyday . I used to dress up with them .

[Di]

Love Halloween and decorate early.
Sher and I-went to Halloween partys every year
Last few years I dress up and hand out candy any excuse to dress up….but not up to partys without Sher as yet.