Connection between being TG, and your relationship with your father?

[joanne_mi]

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance.

[Angela Burke]

Well,I think I may just pass on that one.

[Karren H]

Doesn't apply to me either....loved my dad and we got along great....

Love Karren

[stephintights]

I give this theory a lot of weight, based on my experience, and it's an issue that I sort of uncovered when I sought the help of a therapist last year.

I am the middle of three brothers, and as far as I am aware, am the only TV/TG among us, and certainly the most feminine (or rather, non-traditional male) by quite a stretch. When I was at the crucial age of 3-5, my dad was often away on business in the states. By that time my older brother had had the opportunity to bond with dad one-on-one (he's 4 years older than I), and my younger brother was still too young to really be affected.

My memories of my dad are of him being pretty gruff, restrained and expressed his love through the words of my mother. That's not to say that he wasn't ever fun - far from it. But the peaks of laughter are muted by the intense fear I felt when he was cross or disappointed in us. His eyes became so cold and full of disgust almost.

When I dress and fantasise about the feminine life I would lead, it is as a conservatively dressed housewife and mum - pantyhose/tights, long skirts and dresses, flat pumps, pleasant makeup, and a submissive role in the relationship. What I realised in the therapy sessions was that when I dress, I seek to emulate my mother. So, I do follow the reasoning you describe, even down to the eroticisation of that need for attention and recognition as a fellow man. But I would go further and suggest that what I have always been doing is trying to attract dad's attention by becoming another version of my mum.

It's Oedipal on acid really.


Steph
x

[Kate Simmons]

I was never attacked or forceibly dressed by anyone. My Dad was hardly ever home which suited me just fine. I feel he did his best to support the family as he saw it. I didn't miss the fishing, hunting or other typically boy stuff as I was in my own world most of the time anyway. Any punishment I received was discipline which I needed as far as that went. If I hadn't gotten it, I may have become a criminal or into drugs or whatever. Really, the punishment was one of the only times my Dad really paid attention to me, so it wasn't all bad. I stopped long ago trying to find a reason for my CDing. I just go with the flow and enjoy being who I am and accept it. I turned out to be a good husband and Father and provider for my family but didn't go to the extreme of having 4 jobs to do it as he did. I realized my children needed their Dad after all and despite their Dad being a CD, they all turned out just fine. Ericka/Rich

[Just Plain Kay]

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

I'm not sure there's a cause-and-effect relation, but my dad pretty much fit that mold. He was somewhat distant emotionally. Although I'm sure he loved me, he never put it into words. In retrospect, I see myself as a child who never quite measured up to the standards he set.

More pertinent in my case, however, is something that happened in very early childhood. My parents were in a very tense marriage when I was conceived. My mother left with another man when I was seven months old, and my dad's parents took care of me until he remarried. So the relationship between us was somewhat colored by those events. I wonder sometimes if he saw my mother in me and resented me in some small way.

[Ellisia_Lynch]

I think if everyone who had a poor relationship withtheir father was a crossdresser, there would be a lot more of us out there.

That said, I too had a very absent father growing up.

Ellisia

[Sky]

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

Ann Landers-style thinking is dated by definition, either today or back in 79.

It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity).

Nope. No woman ever dressed me in female stuff.

In addition, one finds that transvestites [I]do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

Dad was, and is, awesome. He took me to soccer games (foreign girl here) since I was 6 or so. I love him, he loves me. Don't blame him if I traded soccer shoes for high heels.

Theories, theories, theories. Work so well with things, so poorly with human beings.

[Elly]

my father was a total ass and mad it a point often to tell me how opposed he was to having children and that he never wanted me in the first place... as for the frustration from the fathers absence of tender moments or absence all together i never really missed my father when he was away on the oil field for several days, cuz he was such a huge ass... i really wanted to move in with my mother but he wouldn't let me and instead sent me to live with his parents when he decided he didn't want me anymore hell he didn't want me from the beginning, i think keeping me from my mother was just more of him being jerkly or maybe he was afraid she would nurture my true nature (he was always afraid i was gay)... so some of that did hit home with me but of course not all points apply to everyone...

[Julogden]

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Joanne,

Sad to say, my memories of my feelings for my father when I was young are not good ones. I mainly remember him as being distant and angry, not present much, certainly didn't have much to do with raising me, and my fond memories of my childhood involve things that I did with my mother. I distinctly remember being fearful of overtly masculine males. I was also a bit of a loner in my youth, although I did have friends.

As my father got older, he mellowed a lot, and later in life, we were much closer, and I ended up taking care of him full-time during the last 4 years of his life, so we definitely became closer later in life.

I do remember being dressed up by my mother when I was little, but it was not as a punishment. As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a girl, and I think my mother was responding to that, but she's long gone, and I'll never know why she did that.

I think that my feminine tendencies when I was little may be one of the reasons that my father was distant back then.

Carol

[Robin Leigh]

This theory may apply to some CD/TVs but not a majority. It's completely based on environmental conditioning, with no mention of genetic or hormonal factors. It comes from the days when the theories of Dr John Money reigned supreme, and I don't think I need to tell anybody here about him and his flawed ideas! :Angry3:

Also, back then psychiatrists had access to very few of us to base their theories on, mostly people who had run afoul of the law, so their sample of TG people was skewed & the stories were bound to be distorted a little, too.

That said, I lost my father before the age of 4. My mum remarried within a few years. My step-father, though he was a bit stern with me & my sisters, is a nice guy, but I've never really bonded that strongly with him in a father & son way. I was never masculine enough for him, and I wasn't attracted much to his masculine activities. Also, he often did shift-work when I was young, so I didn't get a lot of contact with him.

Robin

[Valerie Nova]

There's probably something to that, but that explaination is too freudian for my tastes. Really, it's probably more that a kid in that situation would develop a strong desire to not be like their father. If he had a closer relationship with his mother, he might want to be more like her. Still I think other factors would have to be in action in order to make a kid become a TS. Otherwise, there would be a lot more of them.

[Helen MC]

I can agree with a lot of what has been said by Joanne.

My father didn't beat me up and didn't humiliate me. All I ever got from him as a kid for being naughty was the odd spanking for the usual childish misdemeanors such as swearing, being disobedient etc. From when I was 12 other punishments were more appropriate such as stoppage of pocket money etc. He was however a distant figure and to be brutally honest as far as I was concerned his contribution was finished 9 months before I was born, although it has to be said he was, as was the norm in those days, the breadwinner of the family and we wanted for nothing essential as kids and was a good husband to my late mother by the customs of that time, England in the 1950s and 60s.

He and I didn't bond in any great way and I am still not close to him. Sure, I showed him the respect that was his due but in his attitudes he was 180 degrees different to me. He liked Team Sports, I hated them , he was competitive, I hate competition, he liked rough and tumble activities , I detested them. I was always a bookish intellectual type who prefered my own company and would rather go to my bedroom and listen to classical music than watch the Football (Soccer) on the TV. He soon realised that I was not his ideal type of son but left me alone to live my own life for which I am grateful indeed!

Now he never knew about my wearing my big sister's and my mum's panties and when alone in the house their other clothes. If he had found out he may well have given me a thrashing then and would have sent me to a psychiatrist to cure my illness as he would have seen it. He didn't hide his hatred for what he called "poofs" (homosexuals) and I remember one time sitting in the front room watching the TV when a pop star he detested was on the screen. Giving a snort of disgust he said "Bloody queer, I bet he wears women's knickers!" I had a silent laugh to myself and wondered what he would think if he known that his 14 year old son was at that very moment wearing a pair of panties belonging to his other child , his daughter Anne then aged 16?

I was never forced to wear girls' clothing by my mum or anyone else. To me it would have been no punishment , anything but! It also must be said that I was always far closer to my mother and my big sister for both of whom I had both respect AND love!.

[~Bobbie~]

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go..

[KarenSusan]

I loved my father and he was truly a nice guy but he loved my mother so much that I don't think he had much left for my sister and I. Consequently, we didn't do things together. Also, my mother was very strong and domineering and called all the shots in the family. I don't know if this fits any theory but it's the way it was.

[joanne_mi]

I can agree with a lot of what has been said by Joanne.

My father didn't beat me up and didn't humiliate me. All I ever got from him as a kid for being naughty was the odd spanking for the usual childish misdemeanors such as swearing, being disobedient etc. From when I was 12 other punishments were more appropriate such as stoppage of pocket money etc. He was however a distant figure and to be brutally honest as far as I was concerned his contribution was finished 9 months before I was born, although it has to be said he was, as was the norm in those days, the breadwinner of the family and we wanted for nothing essential as kids and was a good husband to my late mother by the customs of that time, England in the 1950s and 60s.

He and I didn't bond in any great way and I am still not close to him. Sure, I showed him the respect that was his due but in his attitudes he was 180 degrees different to me. He liked Team Sports, I hated them , he was competitive, I hate competition, he liked rough and tumble activities , I detested them. I was always a bookish intellectual type who prefered my own company and would rather go to my bedroom and listen to classical music than watch the Football (Soccer) on the TV. He soon realised that I was not his ideal type of son but left me alone to live my own life for which I am grateful indeed!

Now he never knew about my wearing my big sister's and my mum's panties and when alone in the house their other clothes. If he had found out he may well have given me a thrashing then and would have sent me to a psychiatrist to cure my illness as he would have seen it. He didn't hide his hatred for what he called "poofs" (homosexuals) and I remember one time sitting in the front room watching the TV when a pop star he detested was on the screen. Giving a snort of disgust he said "Bloody queer, I bet he wears women's knickers!" I had a silent laugh to myself and wondered what he would think if he known that his 14 year old son was at that very moment wearing a pair of panties belonging to his other child , his daughter Anne then aged 16?

I was never forced to wear girls' clothing by my mum or anyone else. To me it would have been no punishment , anything but! It also must be said that I was always far closer to my mother and my big sister for both of whom I had both respect AND love!.

My father was about the same. Homophobic, absent, distant, all of the above. I never got beaten or abused or anything like that.. Our fathers seem rather similar really. In my father's defense, he did 'get it' later in life, and I was able to let many of my issues with him go as an adult.

[joanne_mi]

There's probably something to that, but that explaination is too freudian for my tastes. Really, it's probably more that a kid in that situation would develop a strong desire to not be like their father. If he had a closer relationship with his mother, he might want to be more like her. Still I think other factors would have to be in action in order to make a kid become a TS. Otherwise, there would be a lot more of them.

Freud was a hack.. modern psychologists are abandoning his thinking left and right. His 'everything is based in sexuallity' thinking makes us seem like little more than animals, and of course, he was above his own theories.

His "oral fixation" theories which basically state that anything that goes in the mouth is a replacement for a penis are silly to say the least. But, when you exclude yourself from that theory as it regards to your cigar addiction with a statement like "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" makes you pretty much a joke. Sadly it's taken decades for pyschcology to grow beyond his thinking...

[joanne_mi]

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go..

Ann was a good egg though, she was always pretty sympathetic to us in her writings.

That said, I don't really believe any of Ann's thinking on this. But, self-exploration can be a good thing, and if we have another thing that we can call 'common groud', it makes us closer as a community.

[joanne_mi]

This theory may apply to some CD/TVs but not a majority. It's completely based on environmental conditioning, with no mention of genetic or hormonal factors. It comes from the days when the theories of Dr John Money reigned supreme, and I don't think I need to tell anybody here about him and his flawed ideas! :Angry3:

Also, back then psychiatrists had access to very few of us to base their theories on, mostly people who had run afoul of the law, so their sample of TG people was skewed & the stories were bound to be distorted a little, too.


Robin

Once again, this is a very dated theory. However, in the spirit of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we explore and connect.

The theories on us from that period are weak at the very best. A quick read of "Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex, But Were Afraid To Ask" will verify the badly researched thinking of the day.

[joanne_mi]

Hi Joanne,

Sad to say, my memories of my feelings for my father when I was young are not good ones. I mainly remember him as being distant and angry, not present much, certainly didn't have much to do with raising me, and my fond memories of my childhood involve things that I did with my mother. I distinctly remember being fearful of overtly masculine males. I was also a bit of a loner in my youth, although I did have friends.

As my father got older, he mellowed a lot, and later in life, we were much closer, and I ended up taking care of him full-time during the last 4 years of his life, so we definitely became closer later in life.

I do remember being dressed up by my mother when I was little, but it was not as a punishment. As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a girl, and I think my mother was responding to that, but she's long gone, and I'll never know why she did that.

I think that my feminine tendencies when I was little may be one of the reasons that my father was distant back then.

Carol

I'm glad that both you, and your father came around at the end.

Maybe your mother knew more about your spirit than you think and in her love for you gave you what you wanted?

[joanne_mi]

Ann Landers-style thinking is dated by definition, either today or back in 79.

As I said, dated, but sympathetic.

Theories, theories, theories. Work so well with things, so poorly with human beings.

Good point, you certainly can't make something like this into a garden variety explaination. It could though, be one element in explaining all this for some people.

Thanks for your input.

[robinLynn]

Doesn't apply to me either....loved my dad and we got along great....

Love Karren

me too

[Sky]

Good point, you certainly can't make something like this into a garden variety explaination. It could though, be one element in explaining all this for some people.

Right, it is one factor among many, and maybe it applies to some, but not to all. Part of the article was written in the old-fashioned deterministic style, like this:

"In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers."

"Some transvestites" or even "Many transvestites" would have been better.

,
Sky

[pedalpusher]

[QUOTE=joanne_mi;604451]

What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.[/I]

I have a father that I have not talked with in about 17-18 years. So, I would not say all-too-close rage in this case, but rather maybe the hunger of wanting to know him. He sort of disappeared out of my life somewhat early, but as a youngster I did have some kind of relationship with him. I believe, don't know for sure, that my CDing simply came from being influenced by females early in my life. I was basically raised by Mom and Grandmom early on until step-father came around later. By then, it was too late. I was already in mom's closet playing with her pumps and skirts.

Additionally, I think the whole pedal pumping thing came from watching mom and grandmom at a very early age struggle starting their cars because of lack of male influence maybe?? So thats how I became the crossdressing pedalpusher perhaps?? Any ideas are welcomed!!

[JenniferMint]

I used to wore girls' leggings. I had bad eczema on my legs, and my dermatologist suggested wearing "long johns", but my mom ended up buying girls' leggings, perhaps because they were equivalent but more readily available. She thought nothing of it.

One time I had them on (without wearing pants over them), and my father was supposed to take me out somewhere. He didn't want being seen in public with me dressed like that, and he said that people could see my penis (he meant the bulge of it through my leggings). So I wore shorts above them. Now it looked like I was wearing pantyhose or something. He was still uncomfortable with it but he relented.

He later divorced and ran off to a foreign country and I haven't had any contact with him in over 10 years.