Hell Bound

[Jammie Lyann]

As I was growing up I went to a southern Baptist church, ( they blieve you must dress prim an proper to be accepted by the good lord. )
There was a plaque on the wall of one of the class rooms that read :
Dress well for the lord is watching you.
To this day I wholly believe that the good lord will choose a Bum from off the street before he chooses someone that dresses well, to me it is all in your faith an how you treat others around you.
I personlly dont think the good lord cares one way or the other what we wear.
If your one that believe that when you pass over that your spirit leaves this place, Then we also would not have personal items with us, So rightful what would it matter, have fun be who you are while your here.

[Sarah-Anne]

Dawkins Agnosticism

Dawkins is not agnostic: he is an atheist.Agnostic means, to put it in short, "undecided". Atheist means "no god".

It shocks me that so many crossdressers are theists (well, it shocks me that anyone can believe in the invisible sky-fairy, but that is another matter). I always thought that crossdressers, like myself, were people who could "think outside the box," because they live a lifestyle that is unorthodox. The orthodox way of thinking about religion is to subscribe to it, as history has shown us (by orthodox, I definitely do not mean right, simply "most common"), and the most orthodox way of thinking about CDing is to abhor it, but those with a modicum of reason and logic can work things out for themselves instead of following the blind herd, and realise that (a) there cannot be a god and (b) crossdressing is not wrong.

[Rachel Newark]

Don't bother with the teapot; read Terry Pratchett and you would know that the world is flat;rests on the back of 4 elephants; who, in turn, are standing on the back of a gaint turtle swimming through space!!

(Anyone else a fan of the "Discworld" novels?)

"The Turtle Moves !"

Rachel Newark

[Rachel Newark]

It shocks me that so many crossdressers are theists (well, it shocks me that anyone can believe in the invisible sky-fairy, but that is another matter). I always thought that crossdressers, like myself, were people who could "think outside the box," because they live a lifestyle that is unorthodox. The orthodox way of thinking about religion is to subscribe to it, as history has shown us (by orthodox, I definitely do not mean right, simply "most common"), and the most orthodox way of thinking about CDing is to abhor it, but those with a modicum of reason and logic can work things out for themselves instead of following the blind herd, and realise that (a) there cannot be a god and (b) crossdressing is not wrong.[/QUOTE]


Spot on!

The single most infuriating thing about most religions is not that they believe in a God or Gods, if that's what they want to do - fine, live and let live and all that. It's the insistance that because they believe that 'their' supreme deity wants them to behave in a certain way, then I must follow the same set of rules, irrespective of my thoughts on the matter. Closely followed by the presumption I came across in New Mexico that I automatically believed in the same things that they did.
" Um, you're a Brit, yes? "
"Yes"
" So you're an Anglican? "
Thinks ' what's he talking about... oh religion!'
"No, I'm an Atheist"
Stunned disbelief ensued...

Hey Ho !

Rachel Newark

[27th Jennifer]

Part of being a true Christian is not judging others.

HMMMMM....That's what I always heard, but things don't seem to go that way all that much anymore. Will the lord care what clothes we enjoy wearing? If there is one, I doubt it. In the cosmic sense, I don't think there is any harm in crossdressing. How could it possibly matter? And yes, styles and trends do change drastically over time, so who's to say what is really appropriate dress anyway?:2c:

[CharleneCD]

As I was growing up I went to a southern Baptist church, ( they blieve you must dress prim an proper to be accepted by the good lord. )
There was a plaque on the wall of one of the class rooms that read :
Dress well for the lord is watching you.
To this day I wholly believe that the good lord will choose a Bum from off the street before he chooses someone that dresses well, to me it is all in your faith an how you treat others around you.
I personlly dont think the good lord cares one way or the other what we wear.
If your one that believe that when you pass over that your spirit leaves this place, Then we also would not have personal items with us, So rightful what would it matter, have fun be who you are while your here.

I spent some time in a southern baptist church. Everyone made sure to dress fancy. I didn't have any really nice clothes, but I wanted to learn about god. But because I didnt dress up as nice and I smoked at the time I was openly snubbed by some of the other members. Nice Christian attitude huh.

My views are simple. THERE IS A GOD. Things have happened in my life that keep me from saying otherwise. Overall I believe God is more concerned with what is on the inside rather than what we wear on the outside. (OK maybe not an I Love Satan tshirt):D I am much less concerned about going to hell for wearing a skirt than I am for those Sunday best wearing hate mongers.

[celtic.blue.eyes]

If CD's are all hell bound for what they wear, that means that just about all women are going there too - for wearing pants!

So if the Bible is to be taken 100% seriously, word for word, get rid of the english (translated) version and go back to the original scriptures in their native language. A lot gets messed up in a translation. For instance, take the 4th commandment "Thou shalt not kill". It clearly does not specify what should not be killed. Thou shalt not kill a chicken? Thou shalt not kill a fly? Thou shalt not kill a a head of lettuce? Are these acts all the mortal sins that the church professes that will get us an instant trip to hell upon our demise? The answer lies in the messed up translation, which was originally "Thou shat not murder."

So use a little common sense. Accept what God made you, develop the good and dump those things that may harm someone else. I don't see how wearing clothes is wrong. There is no moral dress code. Just look what the men wore inthe 1700's - lace, ruffles, knee highs, large buckes on their shoes, long curly wigs etc.

In your case, I sense that you have guilt feelings about CD'ing. The CD'ing will not go away - it's an integral part of what God made you. Accept what His decision was and develop it. It will give you much more insight into the way a GG thinks and feels. If he gave you the the artistic ability to be another Rembrandt, it wouldn't be right to feel guilty about it and not develop it!

How do I know all this? Been there, been through it and doing it. I only wish I had come to terms with it at a younger age, rather than letting half my life pass by without enjoying it to it's fullest.

[Dawn D.]

Have any othersin here ever read Sylvia Brownes book "The Other Side"? I am reading it now. How it relates to this thread, to me is quite relevant. First and foremost is that she claims to have a true and deep belief in God. Were it not for this I might have more reservations about her thoughts. Her main theme in this book is that we have all lived lives on Earth many times before(Reincarnation). I'm not totally convinced on this yet, though it is interesting. Another of her thoughts throughout this book is that God is in Home (Heaven) and that there is no Hell. She feels that God only loves all and banishes no one. This to me make more sense than outright condemning a soul to eternal Hell for the smallest of sins.


Dawn

[ReginaK]

I pay it no mind. If I can go to Hell for crossdressing, then i'm definitely going to hell for all the other things i've done. And if I don't go to hell for crossdressing, i'm still going for all the other things i've done.

So since i'm going either way you slice it, might as well make the most of it while i'm here.

[Shelly Preston]

Going to hell
As most if not all religions preach that those who don't not follow ther teachings will go to hell we have a problem

So this means as we are not a member of their religion we go to hell


So I guess that means we are all going to hell

And crossdressing never even needed a mention

[MarinaTwelve200]

Going to hell
As most if not all religions preach that those who don't not follow ther teachings will go to hell we have a problem

So this means as we are not a member of their religion we go to hell


So I guess that means we are all going to hell

And crossdressing never even needed a mention

Actually THATS the main HALLMARK or "warning sign" of a "screwball" religion. If you are in one of these groups you need to get out. Any sect(of Christianity or other) That preaches that only those of that particular sect---(and even that particular congregation sometimes) are the only ones going to "saved"---and everybody elese in ALL the world is going to HELL is a religion a reasonable person does NOT wanna be in. It can eventually cause ite members to becomed disillusioned with ALL religon and faith in God alltogether, or lead to tradgedy in many cases. The exclusiveness, and lack of joy in its members is another sign and is anything BUT "Christian", although they often call themselves that.

I say its good to belong to a religious orginization, but one has to be careful of the strange groups out there. Those who have little ideas of what God or christianity is about are most vunerable to being sucked in.

Just because a group calls itself "Christian", "Jewish" "Moslem" or whatever, dosent mean it is so. Thats why I prefer established "mainstream" sects (Christian in my case) Such as Methodists or Episcopals Catholics are OK (I used to be one) if you can tolerate the odd rules and traditions. Baptists are usually OK too, but there are splinter groups of this sect that can become over "fundimentalist". And there might be a few "Screwball" congregations. But most "Screwball" churches are usually smallish, independent affairs, sometimes haveing only one church. I dont agree at all with Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons, but all and all, I think they are "safe" despite , IMHO some peculear beleifs.

[Blonde]

All are going to hell,
except the CDs/TVs/TSs and the GGs and others who support us :D

[Mellisa S.]

This topic has striked quite a chord with me. I have recently converted from an agnostic to a christian and am starting to read the Bible for the first time with not only a mature mind, but with a sense that it will help me with my life. Now up until it was brought up, I did not know about Deut. 22:5 and while I have found many things in the bible that pertain to things that are currently going on, I have to wonder about that one. I realize of course that when that was written there were no such things as mini skirts, make-up, panyhose and bras. But I can't help but wonder if the reason for my anxiety when it comes to crossdressing is not related to that particular passage.

I go through many phases when it comes to my dressing, some days I can not stand it, other days I can't wait to do it. Ever since I have accepted Christ into my life, my dressing has slowed down, but most of it is due to me having a busier schedule. Could my busy schedule be a coincedence or could it be Christ's way of letting me let go of crossdressing. I do not know the answer and I probably will never know.

Before I became Religous, I was bothered by crossdressing, I was hoping that maybe I would find out that it is ok, but now after that passage, I do have to wonder. Please keep this thread going, I need to read more feedback into this as now I am more confused then ever.

[Jestina]

As I was growing up I went to a southern Baptist church, ( they blieve you must dress prim an proper to be accepted by the good lord. )
There was a plaque on the wall of one of the class rooms that read :
Dress well for the lord is watching you.
To this day I wholly believe that the good lord will choose a Bum from off the street before he chooses someone that dresses well, to me it is all in your faith an how you treat others around you..

WOW WOW and again I say WOW!!!!!!!

What a stupid hurtful ignorant plaque to put on a church wall!!!

I have had much to do with churches over the years, and I am stunned at how stupid and arrogant religious people can be!!!

Did no one in that church ever read the story of the wedding feast? Where the streets were combed for beggars to fill the seats?

Or the story where brethren were admonished to not show favour to those with money and give equal seats to the poor?
(and smelly * my paraphrase)

Absolutely "vomitrocious".

Jestina.

[noname]

If CD's are all hell bound for what they wear, that means that just about all women are going there too - for wearing pants!

Thanks sarah. I know this not popular with GG's and imo mostly because they know it's true. It amazes me though how many styles of pants are considered for women only. Still, I know they are mens clothing. Reminds me, I need to pick up some gouchos and capris.

[ReneeCD]

Deuteronomy 22:5. Aaah yes, a verse dear to me.

When I first came upon it, I was, like a lot of 'sisters', shocked and crestfallen. However, after more study and discussion with theologians, I found this:

At the time this was written, one of the prevalent religions of the Phoenecians (Caananites) was the worship of Baal. One (or several) of the ceremonies involved crossdressing by the priests. If you look in the margin notes of, say, a Jerusalem bible, which has annotations made by scholors much more learned than any of us, you'll find that this was primarily why garment exchange was proscribed (not prescribed!) by the authors. This is one of the many reasons why I'm so dead set against people reading the KJV of the bible as a source. The language is obscure and confusing for those of us living in the 21st century. Do yourself a favor and get a more modern version of the Bible to study that can aide rather than confuse you.

Renee

[MarinaTwelve200]

Deuteronomy 22:5. Aaah yes, a verse dear to me.

When I first came upon it, I was, like a lot of 'sisters', shocked and crestfallen. However, after more study and discussion with theologians, I found this:

At the time this was written, one of the prevalent religions of the Phoenecians (Caananites) was the worship of Baal. One (or several) of the ceremonies involved crossdressing by the priests. If you look in the margin notes of, say, a Jerusalem bible, which has annotations made by scholors much more learned than any of us, you'll find that this was primarily why garment exchange was proscribed (not prescribed!) by the authors. This is one of the many reasons why I'm so dead set against people reading the KJV of the bible as a source. The language is obscure and confusing for those of us living in the 21st century. Do yourself a favor and get a more modern version of the Bible to study that can aide rather than confuse you.

Renee

I Agree---While the KJV is a nice work of art, and was remarkable in its time, It can cause a lot of confusion and conflict today. The use of obsolete words, words that have changed meaning over the years and flaws in translation, render this book usless for working out the finer points of God's word in present times. One flaw--"Thou Shalt not Kill" for example,has caused a lot of needless controversy---The original words were "Thou shalt not commit murder"--a BIG difference. Also the word HELL is used for the original greek and hebrew text words, for "The grave" , "the garbage pit", "the realm of the dead", in addition to the place for enernal punishment---This can make a big difference too. The word "sin" used for both a violation of God's law and falling short of a goal , and then you have to contend with "figures of speech" that never were meant to be taken litterally---Only being displaced in time and culture makes their real meaning very obscure. Is it any wonder why the "Bible Litteralists" who rely on the KJV seem a bit odd and hold strange beleifs.

Unless one can read ancient Hebrew and Greek, I suggest using THE NEW ENGLISH Version, or Revised Standard or New International----and even better, ALL of them at the same time---as some words have no english equvalent and may be translated differently in each book---Compaire to get the correct meaning. Yes, getting Christian theology "straight" is hard work. but rewarding. Most of the critics have never read the Bible through even ONCE.

And I'll say one more thing. As a Scientist, I can say that I have never found any real "Conflict" between the WORDS of the Bible and Science. Controversey comes from those who rely on traditional INTERPRETATIONS made hundreds of years ago, when we didn't know as mush about the world as we do now. Indeed, our Science even helps us understand the Bible, in many respects. Those who say the Bible and Science are at odds, do not know enough about one or the other. Do not confuse the Bible itself with RELIGION.

[Theresa(TGirl)]

Also, don't forget:
a) we are reading the bible in translation and translations differ in interpretation
b) the bible contradicts itself a lot
c) fundimentalists only ever quote the bits of the bible that suit them & rarely seem to be prepared to enter into a debate about other passages which may not support their point of view.

a) is like what happens when one translates from language to language, different words have different meanings in some languages

c) always happens, even without the Bible, think about elections.....