But Marina, all of the activities you describe are transgender in nature. Not transsexual, to be sure, but trans-gender, as in crossing or permeating the borders of gender.
But Marina, all of the activities you describe are transgender in nature. Not transsexual, to be sure, but trans-gender, as in crossing or permeating the borders of gender.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead
[SIZE="3"]Dasein9 THAT'S IT, ONE THING I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH IS...... Just joking:D I hear what you are saying and of course you are correct with it,I mean "Howw ya gonna talk about it if ya don't know what to call it????" I just wanted to point out my discomfort with labels, unfortunately they are a somewhat neccassary evil.
Hope I did not startle or offend with the sarcasm I used in the beginning I just like to keep things light with a litle DRY humor.:D
Dixie[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]"Tell me why I can't where a mini 'kilt' to work?"[/SIZE][SIZE="3"][/SIZE]
Oh, Dixie, you should see the other message board I post on. It's unmoderated, and is pretty much a free-for-all. So, it's pretty difficult to tick me off, and if you do, I'll let you know.
Friends? :D
I see why you're uncomfortable. And I agree. Maybe if I put it this way: Labels can be like cars. They're good for getting around, but sometimes people get hurt by cars. That doesn't mean we should stop using cars, but it does mean we have to use them responsibly.
So, using labels responsibly is what's important, so we can get things said without taking half an hour to explain the basics. Too often, they can be a shortcut that replaces real thinking, though. That's when they become stereotypes, and dangerous.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead
I have no male EGO. So, I don't worry about Macho things. My emotion is confidence. I am Confident I am a woman, in a mans body. If that makes me transgender, then I am. I don't have to have an operation to live the rest of my life as a woman. But my wife and I know who I am. I think, Yes if we want to dress or look like the opposite sex, we are transgender
[SIZE="3"][SIZE="4"]Toni Shelton[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]My Mothers first Daughter[/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My New Avatar is my New Years Picture, I hope you like.
Just a notion: The term "transgender" presupposes a gender binary, a concept of male and female. So the crossing part of transgender is just a crossing from one to the other, or even the journey itself between them.
But, the term transgender challenges the presupposition of a gender binary too. We prove that the notion that humans come in two flavours doesn't work. Or at least that it doesn't describe the experience of all humans.
So, in the end, the term may render itself obsolete!
I think that's kind of cool.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead
trans·gen·der /trænsˈdʒɛndər, trænz‑/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trans-jen-der, tranz‑] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA PronunciationOriginally Posted by Eva Diva
–noun
1. a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.
According to the book 'Transgender Rights' ed. by Paisley Currah, Richard Juang and Shannon Price Minter p. vix of the introduction:
"What does transgender mean? Since about 1995 , the meaning of transgender has begun to settle, and the term is now generally used to refer to individuals whose gender identity or expression does not conform to the social expectations of their assigned birth sex."
My understanding is that trasgender is Roman numeral I in an outline, where we have the sub-headings: crossdresser, transsexual, intersex, drag performers, gender queers, gender f**ks, femme boys and butch girls, as well as all sort of other people who find that there is more to the expression of who they are than the label of male or femal that they were assigned at birth. They find that label either limiting, false, or incomplete.
Speaking for myself. I love being a man. I do not have any desire to change that fact. That said, I also love being able to express my feminine side as Liz. I find that there is so much more to who I am than what society traditionally allows to be expressed under the heading of male. I am transgender, specifically a crossdresser. I celebrate my being a crossdresser, and I celebrate that I am transgender.
Transgender has its power and strength as a unifying thing. All people who are transgender (CD,TV,TS,DQ whatever), all have the same basic desire: to be able to be free to express their desire without judgment or prejudice. Whether that desire is to change their physical anatomy to be in line with their psychological gender, or to be able to wear panties and heels in the privacy of their own home, the desire is the same.
:2c:
Liz
I believe that TG is an umbrella term that covers most people on this forum except for some SOs. I consider myself TG and am TG&Proud!
Lori
If you would have asked me 20 years ago I would have denied being transgendered, I now consider myself to be transgendered. The older I get the more I would rather transition to living full time as a woman, I do not want to get the sex change surgery though. I would like to get the facial feminization surgery, and breast augmentation surgery, and I wish I had wide hips like a woman.
And I think you're kind of cool.
"I dwell in possibility."
"Say what you want and be who you are, because those who matter don't mind, and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
I would have no problem with being called transgender, but I would never get a sex change, like alot of the other gurls on here I'm just me, and I'm ok with that
I agree with lizbendalin. And I an helping to start a Pride affinity group where I work, to support GLB as well as T. GLBs have supported us, so I feel I should reciprocate.
Dee
I cannot state this as elloquently as many of you but I do feel that labels are important inorder for people to find/feel comfortable in there station in life. I if asked am an TG/CD , now I describe it in this manner as I Cd in order to feel comfort in who I am inside TG as this further describes who I am at heart. I know that does not quite describe it but it is an apt description, for me at least. To put a fine point on it ,I am Victoria Anne Cassell , I am me.
On the road of discovery ... learning to be the woman I have always been.
Http://photobucket.com/viccy
I am so glad that this has been brought up!!!
Let me make this as short and succinct as possible: I have been waiting on this debate b/c I feel it is very important! I truly understand why many don't like labels. However, sometimes we need to agree on certain terms so that we can all be on the "same page" when it comes to talking about a particular subject. This said, I have actually grown a little weary of some not applying the TG label when it clearly IS applicable!!!
[SIZE="3"]"Transgender" is a mental health term[/SIZE], used by psychologists, psychatrists, and others in the field to classify certain people, regardless if those so classified are considered as having a formal disorder, or a paraphilia, or a simple-but-specific identity role expression that socialization says goes against the norm.
[SIZE="3"]Gender identity is the inner sense of being masculine or feminine, or a blended sense (androgynous). Obviously, "gender identity" is a mental state versus one's actual "anatomical" sex. TG is incongruity between one's anatomical state and one's gender identity, be it one believeing they were born in the wrong body, or one having a mental state that is both masculine and feminine in mind set.[/SIZE]
So, whether you are TS/TV/CD, consider TG as an umbrella term!
The following says essentially the same thing, but in differing ways and/or with additional insight"
I pretty much use the term "transgender" as a common point of reference and with society, it seems to be some kind of "condition" or "thing" that people are. Once you accept yourself and others though, it's kind of hard to think of people as a "condition", especially if they have taken ownership of themselves and responsibility for their own actions. That being the case, in my mind, everyone here who identifies as "TG" is an individual and a person and I accept them as that in their own right and according to their own value and merit as that person. As it has been said though, we do need a common point of reference.
Whew!
Steph
WOW! What a GREAT reply from Eva Diva!
A great reply, Hon!
Thanks for taking the time to educate us.
[SIZE="4"][/SIZE][SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]Seville[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Labeling has become mainstream in our society and for what? We are who we are no matter what others think. By being part of this wonderful family here I have begun to express my fem side much more openly than I ever have before. I'm happy that I can do this and not feel ashamed.
Cindy
But there are several kinds of IDENTITY other than just "gender Identity" that make up our psychological identity profile. There is "Personal Identity"---That is Me vs you vs him or Jack doe vs John Jones. There is Human/animal Identity, and even inanimate vs anamate identity
A kind of HERARCHY exists to the Identity components. The basic is Animate vs animate "I am a living being--not an object" Then comes Human/animal "I am a human being" Then comes Gender "I am a male(or female ) human, Then comes Personal " I am John Jones" ===There may also be a "sexuality" identity component(not as definate). ie, Homosexual vs Hetro---That would be between the gender and personal identity in the herarchy.
Here we can see that "issues" at different levels of identity can result in different "eccentricities" in humans. Obviously, Most CD and also TS can be traced to the gender identity level, although, as am "escapist CD" I see it in the personal level, myself. as my main point is to be "not me" rather than a "fem me"--I think ACTORS also operate from the Personal ID level--although they may not all be CDing--- I See MY CDing is a tool to make a more intense ID break.
The humam VS animal ID is very similar to the gender one---"Transformationists and "furry" types have their issues here. The "turned to an object, petrification and fetish types may be messing with their Inanimate/animate ID.
Studying aspects of identity is quite facinating.
It sure is! (I'm doing a major project on gender right now, and the sheer scope is baffling. I not only have to examine theories of gender and the self, but theories of the world and the other. All are intimately involved.)
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead
Me too, Barbara. I always love a good gender theory thread. There have been some really excellent posts in this one. Special thanks to Das for his contributions.
Definitely. Usually, threads like this get bogged down in basic definitions & similar semantic issues. Perhaps we should work on creating a CD.com Glossary, so we can move on to actual discussion of the issues.sometimes we need to agree on certain terms so that we can all be on the "same page" when it comes to talking about a particular subject. This said, I have actually grown a little weary of some not applying the TG label when it clearly IS applicable!!!
FWIW, I like to use TG as an umbrella term, but it seems it's becoming a synonym for TS. I can understand that some TS people don't like the term transsexual, because it creates the impression that transition is all about sex, sexuality & sexual activities.
I'd love to see a good theory of gender. But I suspect we'll need a good theory of consciousness first.
Robin
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
I always thought it was Nathan Lane who said that in "The Birdcage" hahaAs Popeye always said: "I am what I am." Hopefully, that doesn't make me a bad person (even though I like skinny gals who look like "beanpoles").
Your pal, Rita
Oh yes. Can a person be a crossdresser without being "gender dysphoric" or can a person be " gender dysphoric" without the opportunity to take on the outward persona of his inner self. That is the question!I pretty much use the term "transgender" as a common point of reference and with society, it seems to be some kind of "condition" or "thing" that people are. Once you accept yourself and others though, it's kind of hard to think of people as a "condition", especially if they have taken ownership of themselves and responsibility for their own actions. That being the case, in my mind, everyone here who identifies as "TG" is an individual and a person and I accept them as that in their own right and according to their own value and merit as that person. As it has been said though, we do need a common point of reference.
Rita
Last edited by Sandra; 05-27-2007 at 08:09 AM. Reason: merged posts, please use edit button next time
Crossdressing is, at any level, an expression of appreciation, if not fantasisation (wow, yay me, I made a word up!!) about belonging to the opposite gender.
A guy who occasionally dresses in female clothing may have the odd time when he feels that he needs to express that femaleness. Look at most straight down the line guys: tight tee shirts, heck the worst are the ones that wear pink! Society, as a whole, is conditioned to believe that pink is a feminine colour, so is a SDtL guy showing femaleness at wearing a pink shirt/tee shirt?!
The whole issue of crossdressing is one of showing identity with the opposing gender, that identity may masquerade itself in the everyday instances or the occasional time.
Old cliche: "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, then it is a duck!" (Or at least wants to look like a duck). I dress like a woman, do my best to act like a woman, and most important of all; I try to feel like a woman as much as I possibly can. Most of my life is spent trying to be as feminine as I can be as often as I can. If that isn't TG, I don't know what is.
Dressing and acting and feeling like a girl is a transgendered activity. Any amount of wordplay or argument or analysis or denial doesn't change this. I know many people hate labels, but TG is one we cannot deny. I love it!
I was never very big on labels.
I yearn for the day when there are none.
Just call everyone by their name.
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