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Thread: Crossdresser Vs Transgender

  1. #51
    Aspiring Member OCCarly's Avatar
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    I am one of "those" transsexuals who did not do a lot of dressing before she started hormonal transition. I want to use this post to try to shed some light on why that is/how that works, at least in my case.

    I developed a distaste for most forms of crossdressing as a young adult because I did not like the way female clothes hung on my male looking body. So instead I sought out male analogs for female clothing, such as men's bikini underwear, tank tops, speedo type swimsuits, etc.

    My current transition is not my first attempt -- it is my fourth. I researched transition and made long distance calls to doctors back in 1982 when I was in college. The lack of funds stopped that effort. I self diagnosed and made a second attempt at transition after I finished law school in 1989, but stopped when I read that "Gender Identity Disorder" what they called it back then, was considered a mental illness, and a diagnosis might result in the loss of my law license. On my third attempt in 1998/1999 I was crossdressing at home, had a female online persona, and was just starting to explore myself when I went to court one day and saw a young transgender girl get mistreated by a judge. That ended attempt #3.

    In 2005 I started having chest pains, irregular heartbeats and high blood pressure, and my doctors kept telling me it was work related panic attacks. I passed all the cardiac tests. My doctors tried anti depressants, beta blockers, tranquilizers, and anti anxiety drugs, and nothing worked. Near the end of that (late 2015) two things happened. 1) My panic attacks turned into a nasty stress related disorder called Roemheld Syndrome, where nerve impulses and spasms from my esophagus were messing with my heart and causing tachycardia and actual cardiac pains, and 2) I learned almost by accident that cross dressing would stop a panic attack dead in its tracks.

    I managed to survive for a year as an at home cross dresser, but I still did not like the way the clothes hung on my male body. At the end of that year I was almost housebound by the panic attacks. That is when I went in for gender therapy. Hormones fixed almost everything. I was still having mild to moderate panic attacks every time I had to put the men's business suit on and drive to work like that, but other than that, I knew real happiness for the first time in my life. Now, after 17 moths on hormones, my face and body are totally different, my (female) clothes fit like they were meant to, and I am a happy girl, living full time except when I have to go to court (2 days a week, usually) and when I have to visit relatives I am not out to.

    I am getting ready to legally change my name and gender, then I can change my name and gender with the state bar, and go to court as me, rather than as "that guy."

    I have learned the hard way through trial and error, that this is not really about the clothing, or even the way my body looks. If my hormones are off, then I can get anxious and irritable and panicky and all the old bad feelings can come back. Up until coming out to myself I never thought of myself as a female because I was never allowed to by my parents. But the bottom line is, I function far better in society and I feel far better about myself living as a woman, and there definitely is a hormonal component to it.

    So, this is me. Hugs, Carly
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  2. #52
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    As so many have stated below, this topic need not be discussed as A vs B, but rather how are A and B alike and in what ways dissimilar
    I believe I understand where you are going with this, but I must point out that the refusal to agree on terms is what leads to the inevitable discord in threads like this. We can and should agree that we're all different and that this or that label does not completely describe many of us, but it is a huge mistake to suggest that this gives us license to redefine the term. Yes, definitions are slippery things. They do change over time, but that change is one born of consensus and/or common usage. Again, it is folly to expect others to adopt your definition of a term simply because you say it is such and such.
    I am a crossdresser, but it would be stupid for me to insist that another is not because I see some difference between her and me. At the same time, we are both transgender, according to the consensus of those to whom we turn to for such guidance, academia and the professional community. It would be folly for me to insist that I am not TG because am not a TS.

    Look, I know that we can all lay legitimate claim to being "misunderstood", and to having legitimate doubts about where we fit in and what label applies to us, but putting our own definition to accepted terms serves nothing.

  3. #53
    Junior Member Samantha uk's Avatar
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    For me I see transgender as an umbrella term that encompasses everything from transsexuals to part time crossdressers like myself. Its important to have discussions like these and I know people will say they don't want to be labeled as anything, but the trouble is it makes it very confusing to try and explain how you feel when there are no definitive terms use. Its like trying describe left and right to a ball

  4. #54
    Senior Member faltenrock's Avatar
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    As a lot of you know, I go out in public a lot. I meet people and talk to quite many people, mostly women.
    There are usually a few questions that they have and they're always the same.

    - are you a man or a woman?
    - are you gay?
    - do you want to be a woman?

    If I get to talk for people a little more, I tell them about my life, that I'm married, love my wife and that I have children. Normally that's enough for their curiosity and we continue talking about whatever or we dance.
    People seem not to be be too familiar with the term 'crossdresser', but I tell them about it and explain what it means and why I sometimes like to present as female.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    I believe I understand where you are going with this, but I must point out that the refusal to agree on terms is what leads to the inevitable discord in threads like this. We can and should agree that we're all different and that this or that label does not completely describe many of us, but it is a huge mistake to suggest that this gives us license to redefine the term. Yes, definitions are slippery things. They do change over time, but that change is one born of consensus and/or common usage. Again, it is folly to expect others to adopt your definition of a term simply because you say it is such and such.
    I am a crossdresser, but it would be stupid for me to insist that another is not because I see some difference between her and me. At the same time, we are both transgender, according to the consensus of those to whom we turn to for such guidance, academia and the professional community. It would be folly for me to insist that I am not TG because am not a TS.

    Look, I know that we can all lay legitimate claim to being "misunderstood", and to having legitimate doubts about where we fit in and what label applies to us, but putting our own definition to accepted terms serves nothing.
    Hi Kelly,

    I agree with you. We can say we are whatever we want, but these terms do have actual definitions (dictionary). We may not agree with these ourselves, but we have to accept that this is how others will use the term to describe us and technically they would be correct. According to the Oxford dictionary, Cross-dress means to "Wear clothing typical of the opposite sex". So by that definition, I could say transsexuals are also cross-dressers as long as they are wearing women's clothing. Of course they would not appreciate that, but it's true none the less...
    Last edited by Kas; 11-15-2017 at 05:01 AM.

  6. #56
    Aspiring Member Lacey New's Avatar
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    I will jump in with my two cents worth. From my perspective, I do think the term transgender more closely aligns with the state of mind of the person. I believe that a transgendered male, that is one who may inwardly feel more closely aligned with the female gender may periodically or even regularly wear male clothing. Simply wearing male clothing for some period does not take that person out of being transgendered. Similarly, we have all seen women wearing jeans and flannel shirts. Simply because of the clothing they are wearing, does not necessarily mean that someone is or is not transgendered. So, is it the clothing or the mindset that determines whether a person is transgendered? I identify as a male even when I dress up. I know that I am really nothing more than a man in a dress. So I acknowledge that because I occasionally wear women’s clothing, I am a cross dresser. But I do not feel at all that I am, could be or want to be a woman, so mentally, I find it hard to consider myself trans (or “cross”) gendered.

  7. #57
    Member Julie Slowinski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    According to the Oxford dictionary, Cross-dress means to "Wear clothing typical of the opposite sex". So by that definition, I could say transsexuals are also cross-dressers as long as they are wearing women's clothing. Of course they would not appreciate that, but it's true none the less...
    I believe the transsexuals I have talked to would disagree. They consider themselves women, regardless of the state of their transition. As such, female attire would not be considered crossdressing. I have seen many say that dressing male mode is the crossdressing part.

    By the way, I am seeing a number people use the term ‘Trans Woman’ instead of transsexual. Seems the later is becoming dated, the same way transvestite is dated. Feels more appropriate to me, and I am expecting this terminology will become more popular.

    My apologies to any trans men out there. I didn’t forget about you - all my statement apply equality, but of course in reverse.
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  8. #58
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    My two cents runs along the same line as I commented elsewhere on this forum. Stop letting yourself be put in a box. It seems as if it is always trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. Our society constantly tries to put everyone in some sort of box. Fill in the darn bubbles on a survey. There are not sufficient bubbles on a survey to accommodate all the unique individuals. I've seen or read in the media a constantly increasing number of descriptive words trying to accommodate everyone's unique qualities.

    If you get into a conversation with someone tell them what you feel. Don't stuff yourself into somebody else's box. Life is not simple.

  9. #59
    New Member katiej1989's Avatar
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    I was a "crossdresser" for a lot of years before I realized I was actually transgender, and that my crossdressing had been a way to cope with expressing my gender. The realization came when I listened to a video entitled "am I a crossdresser or transgender" and I literally ticked every box in the transgender column. A tipping point was that I had started to cry (or felt like crying) when it was time to stop dressing up - that and realizing I had been daydreaming about being a girl since about age 6 before I even realized I could wear girls' clothes.

    As far as others, I really don't think you need to label yourself. I'm probably not 'exactly' transgender based on all the labels that fly around in the lgbt world - i know there's now dozens of different ways to identify yourself, but I think people, personally, just need to take the time to figure out who they are and what they want, and why they crossdress. Doing that will help bridge that gap and maybe you will realize, like I did, that you aren't just a crossdresser, but that you've been a girl (or boy, or whatever) this whole time, and dressing up was a way to connect with that internal identity.

  10. #60
    Banned Read only Vicky_Scot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katiej1989 View Post
    I was a "crossdresser" for a lot of years before I realized I was actually transgender, and that my crossdressing had been a way to cope with expressing my gender. The realization came when I listened to a video entitled "am I a crossdresser or transgender" and I literally ticked every box in the transgender column. A tipping point was that I had started to cry (or felt like crying) when it was time to stop dressing up - that and realizing I had been daydreaming about being a girl since about age 6 before I even realized I could wear girls' clothes.

    As far as others, I really don't think you need to label yourself. I'm probably not 'exactly' transgender based on all the labels that fly around in the lgbt world - i know there's now dozens of different ways to identify yourself, but I think people, personally, just need to take the time to figure out who they are and what they want, and why they crossdress. Doing that will help bridge that gap and maybe you will realize, like I did, that you aren't just a crossdresser, but that you've been a girl (or boy, or whatever) this whole time, and dressing up was a way to connect with that internal identity.
    Being a crossdresser means your are under the Transgender umbrella. What's so difficult to understand. Transgender on its own is not a condition.

  11. #61
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I have found the term transgender to have multiple meanings. At its most broad meaning, transgender is an umbrella term that encompasses all sorts of gender non conforming folks. A more narrow meaning would be someone who self identifies other than their birth sex. In any event I am a crossdresser and consider myself transgender. Male to female.

  12. #62
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    I'm a guy who likes to dress up. I like to express as a woman but I do not identify as a woman. I am a crossdresser, so I am or am not transgender depending on what definition you like. Some definitions of transgender use identify AND express and some definitions use identify OR express...... That's a big difference.
    If you want to have a TG vs CD discussion, start off with, for the purpose of that discussion, your definitions. "Who you are inside" is not a definition, nor is "not about sex".

  13. #63
    Gold Member Jaylyn's Avatar
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    I read thru all this and I am more confused now, some definitions are crazy. I don't consider myself any thing tarns except I love CD, my wife doesn't consider her self trains male when she dons her cowboy boots, cap or hat, and her wrangler jeans and goes with me to help mend a fence. It doesn't make her a hunter to wear camo attire when she goes and sits in a deer stand with me. My wife helps me hold a piece of pipe as I weld the other piece to it. She is wearing a hood for eye protection and long elbow length gloves, it doesn't make her a welder. Why do we need labels as such that to some are derogatory by others and accepted by some? I do feel better in some ladies attire than rough men's but to me it's just clothes and doesn't mean I'm a tarns anything. Sorry for the rant but we are to me way to caught up in having to put a label on everything that we enjoy.

  14. #64
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie47 View Post
    My two cents runs along the same line as I commented elsewhere on this forum. Stop letting yourself be put in a box. It seems as if it is always trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. Our society constantly tries to put everyone in some sort of box. Fill in the darn bubbles on a survey. There are not sufficient bubbles on a survey to accommodate all the unique individuals. I've seen or read in the media a constantly increasing number of descriptive words trying to accommodate everyone's unique qualities.

    If you get into a conversation with someone tell them what you feel. Don't stuff yourself into somebody else's box. Life is not simple.
    I agree, society it seems is always attempting to put people into boxes! From the time we start school they are working to beat the individualism out of us and working at getting us to conform to some standard. In our western culture women have been set free, somewhat, but not men. We are even guilty of using "name" boxes to figure out who fits where. If we as CD'ers can't free ourselves from the "name" boxes, then how can we expect society to do it.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  15. #65
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    I like that we have an umbrella, for too long we have only had shoes clothes, maybe a line of cosmetics and jewelry is next ?
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  16. #66
    Aspiring Member Jenna Stunned's Avatar
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    Kelly, I just saw something pop up on my Facebook about a new line of make-up targeted for LGBT. Lol. I guess we just have to wait for jewelry.

    A clip from the article.
    Catering specifically to the LGBTQ and Trans community, JECCA is catering to an audience usually overlooked by the mainstream beauty industry.

  17. #67
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Marketers... They're all the same, always looking for another group to convince that they can't live without "new and improved <insert product here>".
    One of these days, I'm going to have to get an account on that Facebook thing and see what it's all about.

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    I believe the transsexuals I have talked to would disagree. They consider themselves women, regardless of the state of their transition. As such, female attire would not be considered crossdressing. I have seen many say that dressing male mode is the crossdressing part.
    Well funny you say that, because the Oxford definition of transsexuals is:

    "A person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex."

    I think the key word in that definition is "feels". Just because you "feel" something doesn't make it true. So transsexuals are MEN who FEEL like women. They are still men and therefore by wearing women's clothing they are defined as cross-dressers.

    *this is not my personal view. I'm just making a point.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna Stunned View Post
    A clip from the article.
    Catering specifically to the LGBTQ and Trans community, JECCA is catering to an audience usually overlooked by the mainstream beauty industry.
    To my mind JECCA misses the point entirely.
    Personally, I want to cross dress, therefore I can only do this if what I wear, including jewellery etc. is made specifically for women. For the same reason I wouldn't get any pleasure from wearing a kilt. But give me the same type of tarten, pleated garment, size it 10, 12, 14 etc, place it on the other side of the aisle and I'm all ears.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly View Post
    One of these days, I'm going to have to get an account on that Facebook thing and see what it's all about.
    Don't do it! It's a trap!

  21. #71
    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    "A person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex."

    I think the key word in that definition is "feels". Just because you "feel" something doesn't make it true.
    "Feel" in that definition is an incorrect word. It's a very common misinterpretation that cisgender people apply to transgender people all the time because the language we use is not very good at describing states of being. It would be more correct to say they experience their gender as that of the opposite (in binary terms) sex. In other words, they ARE the gender they say they are.

    Using a flawed defintion, you go on to a flawed conclusion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    So transsexuals are MEN who FEEL like women. They are still men and therefore by wearing women's clothing they are defined as cross-dressers.
    First of all, transsexuals come in both sexes. Second they don't FEEL like what they are - they ARE what they are. So they are not wearing clothes designated for the "opposite" gender. Finally, you're confounding sex and gender. Sex is an immutable genetic attribute that has to do with your role in reproduction. Gender is also an immutable genetic predisposition toward a specific socially-defined gender role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    *this is not my personal view. I'm just making a point.
    Speaking in moderator voice: we do not need people to argue positions they don't hold. If you're "making a point" that you don't believe in, you're trolling.
    Last edited by Pat; 11-16-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
    I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
    I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.

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    Well done Pat.

  23. #73
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Kas, I think you're close but Pat was right to point out the flaws. Replace "feels" with "experience" or "identify as" the gender opposite birth sex, and it works better. I am surprised at how many times similar mis-statements go unchallenged, such as: "decide to be a woman", "want to be", and "feels like".
    Don't go crazy over this example - I'm not comparing transsexuals with anorexic folks - they don't "feel" fat, their brain tells them they ARE. It's very real to them.
    Regarding second of your quotes by Pat, replace "men" with "males" and "feel like" with "identify as" and it works better.

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    Speaking in moderator voice: we do not need people to argue positions they don't hold. If you're "making a point" that you don't believe in, you're trolling.
    Pat,

    You missed the entire point of my post as usual. I was pointing out that these words (Transsexual, cross-dresser, transgender) have actual definitions IN THE DICTIONARY. You know... THE THING THAT DEFINES WHAT WORDS MEAN. And we have to realise that this is how other people are going to use these words even if we don't agree. I doesnt matter if you think the word "feel" should be replaced with another word because then that is just YOUR PERSONAL definition.

    If you think I am trolling, well that just makes me really disappointed in you as a moderator honestly. I believe a mod should have a non-biased opinion on these kind of issues but you obviously have a picked a "side".

    If you have a problem with that (flawed) definition, why don't you complain to the people who wrote the Oxford dictionary then and not me?
    Last edited by Pat; 11-16-2017 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Immoderate language

  25. #75
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Kas,

    As you probably know, probably 99.9% of people do not read that sacred dictionary. We may refer to it when we are really stumped or to prove a point. Our language is learned in school and from those around us, from family to friends, to complete strangers. We also learn from from our multitude of media sources that were limited before and have greatly increased today. Chances are that today if someone wanted to research or look up what crossdresser or transgender means, they would use their computer or their cell phone and probably one of the first sources that they would read would be Wikipedia! So, what the public knows or learns about our different tribes under the transgender umbrella they have probably learned recently. That specific dictionary definition is out of date when compared with the current scientific and medical definitions used today.

    You pointed out the source and have now been defending that source as correct. I do not remember seeing anywhere you disagreed with that definition. You fail to realize that it is a flawed definition and misinformation for the uninformed. You should be telling people to be careful what they read in that dictionary because it is not all correct. Yes, even a dictionary can be wrong in the real world usage and point of view, but not in their own limited eyes.

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