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Thread: At what age did you know you were TS?

  1. #51
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    I knew I was different by the time I was 7 and began expressing myself as a girl around that time. My father was a strict Catholic and my mother instantly panicked, so I went deep stealth. Didn't work very well, and a few years later she caught up with my clandestine efforts of gender expression. But this time she was much more calm (maybe she'd read something in the intervening years?) and we talked. But I was still scared to reveal myself. This was in the mid-60's and this was at a time when anyone considered deviant was being subjected to electroshock therapy and frontal lobotomies and gay people were considered mentally ill, so as you might imagine I came to the conclusion that stealth was in my best interest.

    Although I knew at 7 years old that something was up I didn't have words for it until I was a teenager, but I was too scared to admit it until many years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorja View Post
    In a last ditch effort to become a man I joined the Navy at 18. I quickly learned that was a mistake. I served my four years and was honorably discharged.
    Wow, Jorja, your story sounds a lot like mine!

    I also joined the Navy, got married and had 2 kids. But I had grown so accustomed to suppressing my gender dissonance that by this time I was pretty good at living a false life and I actually flourished. Long story short, I earned my college degree aboard ship and decided to switch services. Joined the Army and graduated top of my OCS class, eventually became a Special Ops team leader and ops officer.

    Finally admitting to myself that I couldn't live in denial any longer I came to grips with my gender issues and began therapy, and this made me decide that leaving the service was the best course of action. So I ended my career and left the service almost a year ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorja View Post
    The very next day I started living as a woman and have never looked back.
    Same here. Drove a rental truck from North Carolina back home to Texas, unpacked it, changed my clothes and donated my entire male wardrobe. Life's been so much better from that day on. I'll be 55 years old next week and I only wish I'd done it sooner.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  2. #52
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    saffron, me too.... i do recall "weird" thoughts as a kid..but its just a dreamy memory of feeling unsettled and afraid of all the boys ...nothing more than that... and the idea that i was supposed to know as a young tyke disavowed me of the notion that i was transsexual in my teens and beyond...i wished i knew!!!! it hurt... i

    ++++++
    Reine/Dani...

    for Dani it may help you to consider your feelings from another angle
    one thing that happens all the time is people underestimate the nuts and bolts of progressing with your transsexualism....spending time with eyes closed and dreaming of what could be...basically fantasizing...that's totally cool if thats what it is...its a great fantasy...suzanne bender made a great comment about how she "knew" when she could evaluate the incredibly high costs and still felt the need to proceed or else...thats a smart practical concept...

    and Dani you seem like a very practical person just based on your posts...

    So if you are just waking up to cross gender feelings that truly came from nowhere, and you never crossdressed, and you are a grown up with responsibilities and an investment in your life,
    you have no idea about the resolve it will take, the time it will take and all the costs of moving on with a transition..physical, emotional, mental, family, financial, pain, time, medical....etcetc..
    and what's more for us grownups...the benefits of transition have less to do with feminine things and more to do with a peacefulness, and an elimination of that horrible feeling we had before...
    and ts people that can't transition end up dealing with some pretty horrible feelings that never go away...ask around.....

    transition can be horrible in many ways if you can't acheive it in a successful positive way...you are best off running from this and seeing what happens...let the passage of time guide more than trying to recreate and reinterpret past memories that as you can see from this thread can have many meanings...

    ++++

    Barbara i totally get what you are saying...frankly if you've saved up some money and in retirement mode, or even close to it, its a great time to finally deal with your problem...when i was 40 i started wishing i was 30 , now i'm wishing i was 40...i'm sure you go through the same things...but you are here...its unneccessary to over think your past...those of us that had no internet when young know the difference, and we know how finding the internet has a huge impact on us...you can only be certain of what you know today, and at an older age hopefully you have the wisdom and resources to deal with your situation in a positive way for yourself...

    +++

    so interesting how "knowing" and "when" you knew is such a nebulous idea...

  3. #53
    Member Donnadcd's Avatar
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    Since 1966 - when I was 6 years old. 47 years later - and I haven't done a f%$#ing thing about it, besides getting more frustrated.

  4. #54
    Member HelenR2's Avatar
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    Around 6 when I craved the dresses, skirts and blouses the other girls wore. I was finally allowed to wear a kilt for a wedding but I hated it because it was a boy's kilt!

  5. #55
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    @ Jorja I totally get the feeling of being let down by your parents in regards to your being TS. We expect or at least hope our parents will allow us, or help us to be ourselves. Michelle brought up a good point, back in those days any gender non conformity was dealt with in brutal ways by the medical community. Our parents really didn't know how to deal with it either. As you know parenting is on the job training for the most part. It seems recently (the past 5 years) that there is help for parents dealing with transgender kids. The internet has really helped in that regard.

  6. #56
    Member Stephanie-L's Avatar
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    Like many others here, I knew I was "different" at a fairly early age, perhaps 10 or 11. I suspected I was some form of transgender ever since I came upon the topic about 30 years ago. I finally admitted that I am transsexual about 3 years ago, and started planning my transition. About 2 years ago I started actively transitioning, and about 2 weeks ago totally stopped living a lie. BTW, I am now 53.................Stephanie

  7. #57
    Member Cheyenne Skye's Avatar
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    Well, I'll start by saying I echo a lot of what has been said. I grew up in the 70's and 80's so we didn't have the resources available that are out there now. I knew I was different than the other boys in the neighborhood as far back as I can remember. I always would rather hang out with my sister and her friends. By my teens I was sometimes left alone for a few hours and that's when the cross-dressing began. I would dress and then just sit and watch cartoons in the afternoon. And when I was alone in the morning, I would search the TV for shows like Donahue that had trans women on them. I was fascinated by them and started to imagine what it would be like to become a woman like them. By high school, I started repressing to try and fit in, though I was still an outcast of sorts. I started listening to the hair bands of the 80's and realized I could kind of be myself under the pretense that I was just emulating the musicians. I grew my hair, wore tight jeans and even went so far as to wear high heel boots. But inside I wished I could be Tawney Kitaen on the hood of that Jaguar. I met my first wife and "manned up". I still dressed, but only at home. Otherwise, I was a model of a man. After we split, I continued being a man until I met my second wife. I told her about the cross dressing and she said she was fine with it. After a few years, I started going out more and more androgynously. I would have periods where I didn't think about my dressing or gender, but each time I did start thinking about it, the feeling that I shouldn't be hiding myself just got stronger. Now that I think about it that was the dysphoria kicking in. Two years ago, I decided to do something about it. I made an appointment with a therapist, but I had to wait two months before he had an opening in his schedule. In the meantime, I decided to go to a local TS support group. When I saw those other women there, it finally hit me that this was the path I was on. It became real. Something could be done, not like when I saw those people on TV and just wished I could be like them. Last year, I told my wife what I wanted to do, but she couldn't take it and turned into a total b***h about it. We have since split and are still working out the divorce. (Yeah, more therapy!) So after about 18 months of therapy working out some other issues as well, I got my letter for hormones. So I guess there is no turning back now.

    So, long story short, I guess I realized the truth of my situation when I was 41 (though my logical brain is still fighting my emotions about accepting it.).
    If clothes make the man, I must not be one.

    If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, I am definitely from Earth. Somewhere in the middle.

    Originally posted by Inna
    If you find your self in pain, yet not able to stop the pursuit, rest assured, you are on the right path
    You may call me Dana B

  8. #58
    Mine is saying: "Fly, you fools!"
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 03-16-2013 at 10:52 PM. Reason: No need to quote the preceding post
    "I'm not sure. But I'll never know unless I give it a shot."

  9. #59
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    As brought up in this thread, it is indeed crazy when you (or I certainly) think about it; not transitioning til late because you knew you weren't transsexual because you have to have always known which can become one of these huge barriers. Then that turns out to be false and the world just suddenly completely upends itself.

    Certainly that's a part of what I went through three years ago.

  10. #60
    Member groove67's Avatar
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    i have felt i was a girl in boys body ever since i can recall. thank god after 40 years with your ladies post that i read every day i have started transtion and have never felt so happy in my life. i am becoming what i really was to be from birth and love every minute of the journey .i live fulltime and could not be more happy. hrt has been wonderful and the changes in my body are wonderful and in my piece of mind are the are totalloy wonderful. i live 24/7 as a woman and love every minute of my life. i will have srs in febuary next year and count the days as i am ready to be the woman i am.

  11. #61
    Senior Member melissaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishRose View Post
    As brought up in this thread, it is indeed crazy when you (or I certainly) think about it; not transitioning til late because you knew you weren't transsexual because you have to have always known which can become one of these huge barriers. Then that turns out to be false and the world just suddenly completely upends itself
    You raise a good point about dealing with definitions for being TS Sweetie.

    I knew I was transsexual when I read about Chritine Jorgenson BUT I read on and found out she married a GUY!! I didn't like guys, at least I was pretty sure. So I didnt see how I could be transexual. I knew i wanted the change she had, but wasnt sure i qualified. I had never heard of women liking women in a sexual way. I was really confused.

    I kept wondering fir another 10 years until I had a lesbian make a joking pass at me and it was no joke to me, I melted. And so what I knew at 13 got validated!

    But yea, nothing linear about the whole process of knowing.
    Last edited by melissaK; 03-17-2013 at 07:34 AM.
    Hugs,
    'lissa

    "The second life isn't like the first one, is it?"
    "Sometimes, it's even better."
    ~ Elektra Natchios & Stick, Elektra (Movie) 2005, R. Metzner, S. Zicherman, Z. Penn

  12. #62
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    i do recall "weird" thoughts as a kid..but its just a dreamy memory of feeling unsettled and afraid of all the boys ...nothing more than that...
    That's a lot, Kaitlyn. Fear of an entire gender is a pretty strong indication that there is a disconnect with that gender, even if there is no word for the disconnect the way that Rianna describes? If I had been expected as a little girl to fit in with all the boys and be interested in all the things that interested them and always play according to their rules, like you I would have felt terrified. I think I would have had a sense of panic, especially when I was drawn to girl things, if had gotten the message that these things were unequivocally out of bounds for me.

    Fantasy, on the other hand, is more a fun thing to get into? I mean, boys can get into fantasies without necessarily feeling a disconnect with the other boys?

    It makes sense to me that both the fantasy and feeling apart from the other boys can exist at the same time ... but if only the fantasy is present with none of the feelings that a boy simply does not belong with the other boys, then it might be something other than GD?

    This is what is hardest for me to understand. That someone should have NEVER experienced a feeling of being apart from or not in sync somehow with the other boys, and then wake up in their 40s, 50s, or 60s to feel that they are women.

    But, because the TSs who grew up and forged their adult lives before the internet had no way of knowing about transsexuality, let alone give themselves permission to even dare hope that expressing femininity might be possible in their lifetimes, it makes sense to have simply given up and become resigned to living life as a male. But still, the disconnect with the other members of their birth sex would have been felt, again even if there had been no word for it?

    I remember that someone (I believe a member in the UK) was describing her first interview with one of the gatekeepers to the process of transition. One of the first questions asked was, "How long do you trace your feelings of not belonging to your gender?"

    ... that said, and I think it's important to mention this, in my opinion it doesn't really matter what in the past has caused the feelings in middle age that a birth male wants to transition; whether it is a feeling of disconnect with the other members of one's sex from an early age, or other reasons that came up in later years. The importance is to make sure that one will feel whole after the transition and not wake up on the other side to discover several years down the line that life as a woman is unsatisfactory, especially if there have been irretrievable losses in order to get there.
    Reine

  13. #63
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Reine I think a lot of has do with a feeling of hopelessness, at least it was for me. I wanted to transition in my twenties but could not find any help or info how to go about it. I buried all those thoughts and did the guy thing (not very well) until the GID hit me again about a year ago.

  14. #64
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    wanting to transition in your 20's is not what Reine is focused on..you didn't just wake up and realize, this has been on your mind for a long time

    she's talking about a 40-50 year "guy", that never ever worried about gender saying..OMG i'm a woman...

    i agree with her..that seems reallyhard to swallow....that seems a bit like a fantasy scenario...no one can say for sure of course...

    i think sometimes people write/say that they never thought of gender, but they are not being precise in either their recollection or their communication...burying distressing thoughts is not the same never ever thinking about it or even remembering thinking about it..

    i know women that never ever crossdressed, that feel like idiots all dressed up, and were macho guys...but they all look back and "knew" something was going on with their gender...

  15. #65
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Yes I've re-read the question now. I retract my previous reply and change it to "no comment".

  16. #66
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
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    because the TSs who grew up and forged their adult lives before the internet had no way of knowing about transsexuality
    This is a very interesting aspect to this. Sometimes, information can contaminate experiences which may be very unique for the individual but possible are a road traveled by others as well. Imagine a narrative without information contamination. When I wrote at the beginning of this thread that I never considered myself a transsexual I meant that literally. I went online in January of 1997, I was 42 years old.

    Growing up in the 60s and 70s I had heard of transvestites and seen occasionally sensationalistic photos in the papers. Sometimes they were also called transsexuals. How I experienced myself had nothing to do with what I read. At that time what later became the narrative of a woman born into a man's body did not exist at least not in my context. This entire narrative came in the late 70s early 80s. (See an interesting article by Janet Mock) What I experienced was that my body was disfigured, not that it was a man's body.

    Much later I learned that what I experienced was called transsexualism when I came across Harry Benjamin's book. If you had asked me even 10 years ago, I would have told you that I was not a transsexual. As stated above I see transsexualism as condition that describes a physical disfigurement not a state of being.

    There are many who suddenly in their 40s or 50s or even later "discover" they are transsexuals. But by and large when you dig down into their narrative it is borrowed. Emphasis is placed on aspects that "sound" good to general society in a justification kind of way, but what are the real tell tales that are incredibly variable almost never show up in borrowed narratives. And so you find so many with a dream, a fantasy with a information tailored narrative and you wonder. This is why I believe the question asked in this original post is the wrong question.
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

  17. #67
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If I had been expected as a little girl to fit in with all the boys and be interested in all the things that interested them and always play according to their rules, like you I would have felt terrified. I think I would have had a sense of panic, especially when I was drawn to girl things, if had gotten the message that these things were unequivocally out of bounds for me.
    .
    Wow....this is the best description of what it was like for me to grow up I have ever seen. I can never seem to find the words. Thank you
    All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?

  18. #68
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    she's talking about a 40-50 year "guy", that never ever worried about gender saying..OMG i'm a woman...

    i agree with her..that seems reallyhard to swallow....that seems a bit like a fantasy scenario...no one can say for sure of course...
    Right, but even the first inkling as an adult without any feelings of disconnect (whatsoever) as a child might indicate that the issue is something different than GD? ... keeping in mind that in the final analysis, IMO a 50 year old must do what she must do to be happy, no matter where or when the feelings arose that she must transition, just as long as she has realistic expectations of future life as a woman.

    Getting back to kids, I'm not a psychologist although I am a mother. I know that kids are deeply connected to themselves while young, deepest of all at birth, and it is unhealthy socialization (for the more extreme examples, abuse or codependence in their families) that causes them to not know or become disconnected to how they feel as they age. But, a child would still know at an early age that there was some sort of disconnect between him or herself and the members of her birth sex, even if he or she had gotten the message that it was unacceptable to cross the gender boundaries, don't you think? He or she might engage in all sorts of different coping mechanisms, some more quiet and others more violent, but the knowledge that something wasn't right would be there?

    Kathryn in #66 frames it in a different way. She knew that her body was disfigured at a young age because her body did not look like the other girls. It was always my impression that in the purest sense, this is what "transsexualism" means. The need to align birth sex to brain gender, in other words, having been assigned the wrong sex in utero, as opposed to having transsexualism develop as an adult ... even if a child has no language for this.

    I'd like to post two short excepts from Lynn Conway's site. For those who do not know who she is, Lynn transitioned in 1968. She lived stealth for about 30 years after which time she decided to disclose her past. She is rather brilliant (look around the site) and she has written extensively about transsexualism. She is now happily married to her husband Charlie.

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/conway.html
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TScauses.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn Conway
    What Causes Transsexualism?

    ... current scientific results strongly suggest neurobiological origins for transsexualism: Something appears to happen during the in-utero development of the transsexual child's central nervous system (CNS) so that the child is left with innate, strongly perceived cross-gender body feelings and self-perceptions. We still don't know for sure what causes this neurological development, and more research needs to be done. But the neurobiological direction for these explorations seem clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn Conway
    What if there is no cause? Could gender transition just be a "lifestyle choice"?

    Transsexual women often appear to be completely normal males before announcing they are going to "change sex". ...

    What most people cannot comprehend is the extreme gender distress these transsexuals have endured during their entire lives.
    Reine

  19. #69
    Member groove67's Avatar
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    I never thought i was a crossdresser as no sexual feeling being dressed just felt right. Now fulltime on my way to srs wearing dress just seems normal and it is just me. I knew at 7 i was totally different and never ever gave up hope that a day would come and here i am.

  20. #70
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    In the scheme of things, looking back is of some value, but its limited... i've chatted with Kathryn off line a bit about her description of her past feelings are so consistent with what L Conway is saying...and mine are not...

    my own coping with all this impacted how i experienced emotionally shameful feelings that are difficult to understand, undependable to remember, and are also difficult to describe in words.. it impacted how i presented to therapists, and it impacted how i thought of myself over many many years... i can't say for certain that the feeling i was disfigured ever occured to me once...and it still doesnt feel that way to me...

    am i misrembering? did i lock down and cope in my own way(even tho i felt the same thing)? is there more than one way to experience transsexualism??
    who knows..

    what i do know is that i was in a lot of distress (a great simple word used by lynn conway)...and after transition I am no longer able to generate that feeling inside me...

    when i privately talk to people i encourage them to think out of the box...don't think, "am i transsexual?"...think "will ibenefit from transition?? what will i get out of transition??"...and when you consider the benefits of transition, focus on only one benefit...the only guaranteed one, which is the eradication of gender distress...(theres can be lots more, but its dependent on how well you transition..no guarantees)......it helps eliminate all the emotion around labels and self identification....and its good to lay bare the false ideas people have about how we look to others and how we are treated by cisgender people...

    .its interestesting to talk to people over this because it becomes just so obvious where people are coming from.....its just a mind trick to think differently to test and idea, but my couple of friends that tend to wax on about how they will transition someday end up sputtering around and transsexual women simply say.."Crap..."...

    it changes this question to one that to me has more practical value ..."when did i know i would benefit from transition??">..

  21. #71
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    Thats a great way to put it Kaitlyn.

    I knew I "wanted" to transition at 29. I didn't really know wether I'd benefit from it or not until I'd already traveled down the road a bit. I was compelled to start the journey when I was 34. To be honest I didn't know wether transition would destroy me or not but it was a risk I was willing to take, frankly I've harbored doubts until recently. Early transition can really suck, we were not meant to go through puberty twice!

    It never occurred to me to think my body was somehow deformed either. I "KNEW" my mind was what was broken, CLEARLY! I could see that I was a boy there was nothing wrong with my body it functioned quite well but my brain kept telling me I should be a girl, not all the time mind you but a lot of the time. How could i logically conclude that i was really a girl when my body clearly said otherwise? To be so convicted to me sounds like the definition of insanity, however that is the "traditional" TS narrative therefore there was no way I could be TS. Right?
    Last edited by Aprilrain; 03-18-2013 at 04:02 PM. Reason: No need to quote the preceding post, um correction there is a need if im referring to a specific item in the preceding post

  22. #72
    Senior Member melissaK's Avatar
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    "when did i know i would benefit from transition??">
    My first answer was 2005. Age 51. When I began HRT.

    But I reread Aprils post and I get the distinction of starting vs knowing it would do some good.

    So I "knew" after I quit HRT and fell apart and went back on HRT --- circa 2008. Ever since then its just been having the courage to keep moving forward.
    Hugs,
    'lissa

    "The second life isn't like the first one, is it?"
    "Sometimes, it's even better."
    ~ Elektra Natchios & Stick, Elektra (Movie) 2005, R. Metzner, S. Zicherman, Z. Penn

  23. #73
    Aspiring Member elizabethamy's Avatar
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    This thread addresses what for me is the most maddening aspect of the whole thing. Answers are of course elusive -- Kaitlyn's way of thinking about the benefits of transition vs not transitioning is a good way to look at it, but it doesn't solve the essential mystery. People have been dealing with this for thousands of years but only in the last 50 has physical transition (with full surgery) even been possible. Now that it is possible and effective, it raises the prospect of mistaken and borrowed narratives -- which were probably less likely when you couldn't transition. You coped in one way or another. I'm one of those midlife people so many posters say could not possibly exist -- no clue as a little boy that I wanted to be a girl (though my mother constantly said she wished I had been, but I figured at the time that was her problem). No prayers at night to be magically switched. No dolls or jacks or posters of boy bands on my bedroom wall. And yet, without question, a lifetime of feeling like a misfit, of consciously always not being "man" enough, of not belonging no matter how much I tried, of being picked last for every sports team no matter how much I practiced. Of being more easiliy able to relate to females all my life, though without ever consciously thinking I should be one. Never crossdressing or even paying attention to it until age 50.

    Then, pow. All the therapy and introspection and suffering over gender identity that I can eat, with little relief. What Reine says ought to be self-evident on its face -- surely this doesn't just appear in midlife -- but here it is, at least for me.

    Do the misfit feelings serve as a lifetime mask for TS? Or some sort of comorbidity? What kind of "escape fantasy" would consist of divorce, poverty, mulitple surgeries, and fergawdsake, electrolysis? Perhaps we borrow the narratives of others and look for ways out of lives we don't want or regret having built, or perhaps we are just plain TS and somehow the proverbial bell rang. Or perhaps -- as I increasingly suspect -- this is a continuum in which we are forced to make a binary choice as an outcome, so my situation essentially doesn't contradict what Reine, Kathryn and others are doubting about us midlife awakeners. Obviously, I'm not all the way over on the continuum with those who knew in kindergarten, but something's going on, and if I've borrowed this narrative, could someone please tell me where to return it?

    Going back to the beginning, I suspect that for many of us, the moment of "knowing" we're TS comes when the decision to proceed with transition occurs, because the previous evidence is just too murky to produce that aha! clarity.

  24. #74
    Senior Member melissaK's Avatar
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    Nicely said Elizabethamy. I'm persuaded. Not that I needed to be. So maybe I am further persuaded.
    Hugs,
    'lissa

    "The second life isn't like the first one, is it?"
    "Sometimes, it's even better."
    ~ Elektra Natchios & Stick, Elektra (Movie) 2005, R. Metzner, S. Zicherman, Z. Penn

  25. #75
    What Me Worry
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    The aha moment for me was in my early fifties but I have known for as long as I can recall I should have been a girl. Having been raised in the fifties it was not conceivable to think that way. I remember telling my parents I was a girl at a very young age they, mostly my mother, tried to beat it out of me that I was a boy and that was that.
    To Dream The Impossible Dream.
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The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

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