She said no way was her son going to put on an Elsa dress

[bimini1]

Apparently this is a Disney character popular right now. I eat lunch with a group of 30-something women. One just got back from Disneyworld and said her son wanted to dress as Elsa. She said that is where I draw the line. No way are you going to put on a dress.
I felt poorly. This is what I come to the lunch table to hear on a semi-regular basis. I wanted to crawl under the table. Had to just grin and bear it. Can't blame her either. There is no way out. It's not going to be accepted any time soon is it?

[PaulaQ]

You could tell her there is nothing wrong with it. You could make a stand. You wouldn't even have to out yourself. If we sit in silence, you are right, nothing will ever change.

[Beverley Sims]

I was at a girlfriends place when I was young, the girls wanted me to dress like them in pretty party frocks.
They showed their mother the dress they wanted me to wear.
The mother also said "no way", not in that dress it is too small.
My face dropped immediately.

She then brought out a lovely party frock more to my size.
I was elated.

[bimini1]

You could tell her there is nothing wrong with it. You could make a stand. You wouldn't even have to out yourself. If we sit in silence, you are right, nothing will ever change.

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

[Laura912]

You probably suffer from the stage fright many of us get when it comes to speaking out or showing ourselves out. Do not think the amount of the fright is proportional to age either.

[DonnaT]

Being a CD is not easy, for many.

Many of us started this life long adventure from simply putting on something like a dress for the first time.

Telling a parent there is nothing wrong with it could open her mind, but it could also start the boy on a journey he'd rather not be on. However, if he is already inclined to CD, then opening her mind could result in a kid having a happier life.

[bimini1]

I don't disagree with nor can I tell her how to raise a boy child. It was just the attitude and perceived vitriol she said it with.
I let it get under my skin. She got me at a bad time. I briefly slipped back into victimhood. Just one of those moments when I am tired of trying to defend this even to myself.

[PaulaQ]

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

Sure, internalized self hatred runs rampant around here. I'd guess most of us suffer from it to one degree or another.

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

How people feel about things in public compared with how they feel about it in their private lives are often very different. Hypocrisy knows no political allegiance. And hey, plenty of liberals are transphobic.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

We all do, hon, we all do. I know that was scary and very uncomfortable to hear. You opted for survival by keeping your mouth shut, an understandable strategy.

I briefly slipped back into victimhood.

We are all of us victims of a very cruel society.

[Lorileah]

Elsa is the Snow Queen in Frozen.


What if he wanted to wear a Cinderella dress? Or Mulan? Or Robin Hood (he wore tights after all), Merida????

Where does she draw the line?

I would say yes it is possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time. It is very common here. the number of people who feel guilt over dressing is high

[bimini1]

The only thing I want, crave is strength and peace. Both of which I feel when dressed. I go out, which takes nerve in and of itself. When I go back to drab and hear these type things I waver. If you look at a history of my posts this has happened to me often and for quite some time. The difference now is my recovery time. I've already begun to move past it. Time was something like would stay on my mind for days weeks even.
So I am progressing. Having this community has been helpful.

[Erica Grace]

It will only be accepted when good-hearted people make a stand. There is nothing wrong with a little boy wanting to wear a dress, if it makes him happy then who cares. Of course it's not your place to tell her how to parent. But I have been in a similar situation with my guy friends and made a stand without outing myself in the process.

[Annaliese]

I want to dress as Elsa, there is one place in the movie, that Elsa does the most sexy walk I have ever seen in any movie. Great movie, also has made over a Billion since November.

[kelly123]

I wonder if she would let her son play with dolls? My guess would be yes, because most parents understand kids need to use their imagination sometimes. (That is apples and oranges, but still.)

[Annaliese]

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

Yes you can be trans and trans-phobic, we have been wired since we were young it hard to un-wire and it takes time don't beat your self because you did not say anything, next time, or down the road you might or never. The thing is we are all thinking about it now and how we might act, that is what is importation. Thank you

[Leslie Langford]

Sorry to be so blunt, bimini, but you had a "teachable moment" presented to you, and you chose to let it slip past you.

It would have been entirely possible for you "call" your co-worker on her dogmatic and unreasonable position on this question and prod her to explain why she was so adamant about this, even without the risk of "outing" yourself in the process. And being in the presence of others at the time would really have put the onus on her to provide a credible answer without coming off as and intolerant person at best, and a bigot at worst.

If we adopt the tactics of a 3-year-old in such situations and repeatedly ask "Why?, Why?,Why?,... " when the first, second, and third, etc. answers someone gives us prove unsatisfactory, we will eventually either get to the real truth, or else cause that other person to re-evaluate their position once they realize how illogical it actually is.

[Stephanie47]

If a parent encounters a request like that from a son I would think an inquiry should be made. The worst thing a parent could do is rail against any sexual minority. Putting down any sexual minority does not but foster hatred or disapproval. If a son has sexual identity issues, fostering a negative attitude will drive him into a closet from which he may never escape. The days of beating a kid into a societal mold are over.

There is a saying a friend a long time ago used: "You protest too much!" If the coworker is so against her son wearing the attire of a cartoon young woman, what's really bothering her? Her husband is a cross dresser? Her mother's marriage was destroyed by cross dressing?

[Lexi_83]

Apparently this is a Disney character popular right now. I eat lunch with a group of 30-something women. One just got back from Disneyworld and said her son wanted to dress as Elsa. She said that is where I draw the line. No way are you going to put on a dress. //

Had to look it up. I don't think I could pull it off, anyway....

[bimini1]

Sorry to be so blunt, bimini, but you had a "teachable moment" presented to you, and you chose to let it slip past you.

It would have been entirely possible for you "call" your co-worker on her dogmatic and unreasonable position on this question and prod her to explain why she was so adamant about this, even without the risk of "outing" yourself in the process. And being in the presence of others at the time would really have put the onus on her to provide a credible answer without coming off as and intolerant person at best, and a bigot at worst.

If we adopt the tactics of a 3-year-old in such situations and repeatedly ask "Why?, Why?,Why?,... " when the first, second, and third, etc. answers someone gives us prove unsatisfactory, we will eventually either get to the real truth, or else cause that other person to re-evaluate their position once they realize how illogical it actually is.

I do feel like I totally dropped the ball. Like I didn't have the faculties to get into with her without coming off as nervous sounding about it.
I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

[Caden Lane]

It's like revealing you crossdress to a very liberal wife. It's easy to be supportive and liberal... Until it's your husband or child that needs the support and understanding. That's why she reacted so poorly; it's her child behaving outside the norms.

I do regret that you feel you are trans phobic despite being trans. That's most unfortunate. I do hope that you find balance and understanding in your own situation.

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

[sanderlay]

An Inspirational Character Worthy of Imitation

I have not seen the movie Frozen (2013). But after watching the You Tube link Lorileah shared in post #9 I was truly inspired. I will be looking for the DVD when it comes.

I can certainly see how this fictional character has inspired a child, or anyone for that mater, and how they might want to imitate them. The confidence portrayed, and the lyrics, is electric in the song "Let It Go."

I do see change happening for the better, especially in the last few years, as I look on the web. I think it will be easier for those with this special gift to be themselves as time goes on. We still have a long way to go but I am encouraged.

[Katey888]

I do feel like I totally dropped the ball. Like I didn't have the faculties to get into with her without coming off as nervous sounding about it.
I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

Hey Bimini - please do not feel bad about this - sounds to me like you may have been a lone voice in that situation and you might have been there before... Don't feel bad... It's easy to be wise after the event - being there, as you are every day, potentially has consequences attached to anything you say or do...

Take the experience away - think about how it might have been different and how you might have been able to gently debate and discuss that point... Next time, forewarned is forearmed - and you will be prepared...

Katey x

[Tinkerbell-GG]

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would. We don't know that she doesn't allow him to dress secretly at home or whether she's just venting to friends as we women do - not actually thinking anyone expects her to change the world at the same time.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

[bimini1]

Hey Bimini - please do not feel bad about this - sounds to me like you may have been a lone voice in that situation and you might have been there before... Don't feel bad... It's easy to be wise after the event - being there, as you are every day, potentially has consequences attached to anything you say or do...

Take the experience away - think about how it might have been different and how you might have been able to gently debate and discuss that point... Next time, forewarned is forearmed - and you will be prepared...

Katey x

To be perfectly honest about it this is the very reason I tend to stray away from social situations. Because sooner or later someone is gonna go "there". And it makes me uncomfy, and I know that isn't the way to be.....and I am working on it. I feel like I am too self-absorbed when it comes to my TG self.

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would. We don't know that she doesn't allow him to dress secretly at home or whether she's just venting to friends as we women do - not actually thinking anyone expects her to change the world at the same time.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

I totally agree. I feel like it is more on me than her. I think in my own mind I build up these scenarios of perception that may or may not have anything to do with reality.

[PaulaQ]

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!!

I'm sorry, hon, but that is totally transphobic. Many of us can recite long litanies of cruelties we endured from our parents who didn't want us to dress.

She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would.

Our current society is sick. Sorry - but it is. This is not a behavioral problem that has to be "corrected". It is a childhood medical condition that is generally ignored because society hates it, and would rather pretend it didn't exist.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

You outnumber us by 3000 to 1. Or maybe it's more like 15000 to 1. We have plenty of cause for paranoia, Tinkerbell - it's well justified.

[Nadine Spirit]

Jules and I were having diner with several other couples, none of which know about me cding, when two other males started talking trash about "trannies." They said something stupid, and all of us at the table laughed, myself included. It wasn't until about an hour or so later that I felt pretty sick to my stomach. I justified my behavior quite a bit but still knew that it was wrong on numerous levels. I vowed to never allow myself to do that again.

Sure enough a few months later we were all having dinner again, and again they brought up "trannies" walking the streets of Belmont Shore in Long Beach. They said something stupid again, and this time I said "Hey guys, don't forget that the cross dressers that you are talking about are men, who could probably still kick your ass." They looked at me, and changed the topic. Never again have they brought up the topic in my presence.

It is tough to be the sole voice in a sea of differing opinions, but to me I decided I can't live with myself unless I do so.

Bimini1 - only you can decide what you should have done, or if what you did do was the right choice.