Always progressing

[Lidea]

Hi

I just want to know why is this thing always progressing.... always shifting boundaries?*What was good a couple of months ago is not good enough any more.
For instance... I never allowed my husband to dress at home... ever! Which means he only underdressed at work. He didn't have a wig or makeup or anything else except underwear...Then he started being so absentminded at home because of his urges to dress fully, since the underdressing wasn't enough anymore.
So February this year I sent him away for two weeks to go and enjoy his life that he felt he needed.When he came back, he told me that he will never be satisfied with underdressing anymore. He needs the whole of Jenny.And with that he told me that all he wants is to be able to dress every now and again (more or less 2 weeks) at home. If he is allowed that, he won't even bother to go out.........yeah right.

Since then he gets an evening to dress every 2 weeks, with me..... and of course sometimes some underdressing when he starts to fall apart. We've gone out together twice, and will go to a ballet show in 3 weeks time, because as he told me... it's not enough to be all dressed up and nowhere to go..
.When I asked him about what happened to the 'just as long as I can dress at home occasionally, I will be satisfied' thing, he just replied.... oh, I suppose it changed.Now where will this stop?

We have 5 small children, so dressing more frequently and openly is not a possibility, but I fear that he will get to the point that to dress more often and go out more often might become higher priority than keeping it away from the children. I even fear the big 'T'.... even though he claims to be only CD with some gender confusion.When will enough be really enough?Sometimes it is exactly this always moving forward that causes me to want to draw back, because I stepped over the line that I drew, for his sake, and with some understanding that that would be enough....just to have to step over the next line again.

[Marcelle]

Hi Lidea. I have to admit that things can become quite progressive and at a rapid pace as I have found out. I went from never dressing (heck not even knowing) to full presentation in public within a few months and now I dress and go out when the desire takes me (Isha days as my wife and I have come to call them). However, we do not have children at home so my ability to dress is not curtailed by that. I guess I have to ask . . . have you and Jenny set boundaries (what you can both live with)? It might be time for a conversation on just how far you are willing to accept and far she sees herself going, and then working from there. For my wife and I we are both in this together and we have agreed upon certain things but because I have been given full rein to explore I have reached a point where I am happy just being and coexistence with Isha is quite good. My wife was also afraid of the big "T" but that has abated now that things have settled into a calm.

To be honest sweetie, a very candid conversation is long overdue to determine what boundaries will work for both of you IMHO.

Hugs

Isha

[Lidea]

Hi Isha
We talk very often about it to gain a better understanding about it and our feelings wrt it. I suppose the boundary talk is normally something where he is saying what he would want or that what he has is not sufficent anymore, and I would tell him what I am not prepared to do or allow. And then after some talking and crying and so forth, I will give into it, with the understanding that that will suffice.....Just to find out it wasnt the case.

Just read what all these cheerleaders on this site say.... small steps, she'll get there. Just dont overwhelm her, just take small steps.
That implies a 'rules are made to be broken' attitude

[Coping2014]

Lidea,

While at the moment I don't have this issue I have been reading lots of the posts on here and just the other day I read where they were complaining about their GG wives and how they constantly flip flop about issues - one day they are alright with something and the next they aren't. Well I guess my question is how is this situation you and many other GG wives find themselves in ANY different than that? Answer is ... it's not!

Coping2014

[Marcelle]

Hi Lidea,

IMHO when it comes to what we do, rules are there to protect both parties from unwanted emotional strain and distress. My wife is aware how important the Isha identity is to me but I am also cognizant of how important the "boy me" identity is to her. There are certain things she will not do "go out with me" is a prime one as she went out once and it did not go well so she does not want to see that hurt again . . . I respect that and never broach the subject again. You will need to be put your own needs, wants and desires in the mix in order for this to work especially when it starts to progress.

When I started my wife wondered the same thing "How far will this go?" and we agreed that therapy will need to run its course and now both of us know that while I am CD I probably lean toward mild GID but we work through that in the method that works for us and Isha has been accepted as part of our life. However we both have agreed that should it progress further to the point where she can no longer travel this path with me then we will go our separate ways . . . not because we don't love each other but precisely because we love each other and do not wish to hurt one another.

Hugs

Isha

[Zylia]

The nature of the beast I guess. I certainly 'progressed' a lot in the last few years, although it pretty much plateaued, for now at least. A transgender individual's 'transness' isn't necessarily something predetermined. Cross-dressers turned transsexuals don't necessarily find out that they were 'transsexual all along', they just developed the dysphoria warranting a transition as time moved on. Anyway, it's a statistical certainty that not many cross-dressers take their cross-dressing to its 'logical' conclusion, but some obviously do.

[Kris Avery]

Lidea,

It's difficult to understand another's situation.

For me, it goes in spurts. Some days, for a few hours and then not much for several days. Well, other than the under dressing and bed clothes.

But, since joining - I have been enjoying posting some pictures here and so my SO is assured at least a weekly visit from her girlfriend will happen.

Please read my introduction in that section. Discussion and placing the mate (both of you) first is absolute KEY in any successful marriage.
We both feel we are the luckiest girl on the planet for lucking into each other and spend each moment trying to please the other then ourselves - in that order.

I also am acutely aware that you MUST put more into a marriage than you take back. Tell your mate - keep the GG happy, the rest will fall into place.

[Kate Simmons]

This is a question he really needs to ask himself Lidea and he really needs to talk to you from his heart and tell you how he feels. This is a problem with the CDing process as sometimes it becomes insidious and takes on a mind of it's own and that mind can be calculating and devious. The bottom line is reining in the process and controlling it rather than letting it control you. No easy task but if there are important things at stake such as love and family it's really worth the honest effort. The only way to really control it is to make it a conscious choice, then it doesn't become such an urgency but the person has to want to do it.

[AllieSF]

I am not so sure the cheerleaders here are saying keep stretching that inch that she gave you to make it a mile and a half. I think what many and hopefully most are saying, some clearer than others, is that both the CD and the SO should take small steps, giving both parties time to adjust to the new freedoms and activities of one and to let the other side see if they can adapt to the newer situation. Unfortunately, as you may have read here and Isha so clearly pointed out, what may have existed previously at a very low activity level can quickly accelerate as one, the CD in this case, realizes how nice, fun and self fulfilling the new steps, advancements and experiences can be for them. Depending on age, which looking at your picture seems to be much younger than me, us older folks realize that we are starting to get closer to that light at the end of the tunnel of life quicker than we want to, and we then decide to do more what we want to but never experienced. Assuming that your husband has dealt with this for most of his life, any new freedom may very well progress to wanting more freedom and experiences as he realizes all the fun, and it is a lot of fun and satisfaction for me, it can be to do it more often and get out more.

This is where the go slow recommendations come in as he needs to learn how to deal properly with that new freedom and what it means to himself and how it effects those around him, especially family. That go slow time also lets others, you in this case, time to catch up, maybe better understand what is happening and time to see if you can adapt to what is happening. Based on what you wrote, I would guess that he will want more freedoms until he finds that balance point for this side of his life and his more traditional side, husband, father, and provider.

As Isha said, in this whole process you have to take care of yourself and try to understand where and how far that you may be able to go with all this. I would not hesitate to see a therapist/counselor with some "T" related, as well as, relationship related experience to help you both work this out. I really don't think your husbands really knows where this is all going either. The counseling may help determine that too.

One way of looking at it may be someone who has been using a stationary exercise bicycle to keep in shape. One day he/she decides to try riding a bicycle outside around the subdivision. Then, on the back roads, then join a riding clubs for longer and more challenging rides, then maybe on to competitive riding with all the extra training and conditioning it requires. I know that this is a lot easier for some spouses to accept because it is healthy and readily acceptable as an outside activity. But, as you can see, that healthy little exercise bike riding can and does quite frequently evolve into a very time consuming hobby and need for the participant. That is where as many will say in this thread, workable limits and compromises are in order. If you can't work those out between yourselves, that is where the therapist/counselor can be a great help. CDing is not as simple as my analogy of riding a bicycle, because it is much deeper than exercise, touring around the country in the fresh air. It can have serious impacts on those around them. However, the progression from something simple to something more time and mind consuming is similar.

I hope you can work it out, because we don't find a lot of SO's out here in the real world that can even get as far as you have, which is really a shame for both parties. You are a very rare and prized find for a lot of us.

[MatildaJ.]

Hi Lidea,

As Reine often points out, for many CDers the need builds and builds when it is being repressed. But if the CDer is given leeway to find their comfort zone, often the situation stops progressing, and they find a schedule that keeps them happy.

For me, it calmed my nerves to start talking about the issue in general with my children. We've talked about gender issues, referring to boys they know who keep their hair long, or girls who refuse to wear dresses. I told them that people like what they like, and that doesn't always follow the gendered expectations of our society. As my kids have hit puberty, I've made sure they know that I would love them the same if they were gay or trans, and that if their friends turn out gay / trans / whatever they should be supportive.

So if they figure out about their dad's gender issues, or if he needs to come out to them -- I think the groundwork is in place that they won't be horrified and feel betrayed. And laying that groundwork can start with very young children: just as we teach gender roles to children by exposing them to mainstream culture, we can also point them to books and websites which teach that it's also okay to bend the gender rules. (Like Marlo Thomas's "Free to Be...You and Me" or Munro Leaf's "The Story of Ferdinand" or Brett Axel's Goblinheart, etc. etc.)

So then, if you weren't petrified of your children finding out... Could you renegotiate with your husband, asking him to propose an arrangement he thinks would be enough, at least for this year? Maybe Dad gets private time in the evenings? Maybe he could shop for clothes that are somewhat gender ambiguous (soft pants, silky shirts...), and he can wear them openly at home?

[Jenniferathome]

Lidea, First and foremost, "transition" is just not a reality about which you need to worry. I know it's in the back of your mind but don't let it have too much attention. Now, as for the progression, it's not a straight line. It doesn't go up and to the right for ever. The ramp rate will slow. Really. Still, I think it is fair for you to set boundaries. Those boundaries can't realistically be "forever" but set some for 6 months and agree to discuss again at the end of the time period. This give your husband an expectation that "x" is ok now and 'y" can be discussed in 6 months. This does not imply that you have to give more at the end of the period. Just that a real discussion will happen.

I wish you the best and thank you for being such an open wife.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Lidea, I think you're coping really well! I haven't been on my email lately due to some family issue that I've been dealing with, but I've born wondering how you're doing? It sounds like you're worried but also figuring things out too. That's better than before!

As for the progression, honestly, you can't do much about this and you really can't control another person. Only they can do this. The thing you CAN control is your own life and limits and you really should sit down and have a think what these are. How much are you able to live with? At what point (dressing around the kids, going out more etc) are you no longer comfortable with your H's activities? What ARE you comfortable with? You owe it to yourself and your children to look after your happiness. No one said marriage meant putting that aside. I really hope you can both figure this out, but always remember to stay true to YOU as well. Trust me, when you stop doing this, when you pretend to be happy while you're really miserable, your health and everything around you will suffer.

And Jenny (since I'm sure you're reading all this ) I know you're trying very hard to keep things working between you both, but have you had any counselling to figure out what this is and where it's going? You also need to be true to yourself, but if this is bigger than you initially thought and Jenny is someone you need a lot more of, it's a hard reality that such a situation may not be amicable with your marriage. And that might sound difficult to hear, but it's also worrying when the members here talk of slowly pushing boundaries with the spouse as Lidea mentioned. We wives notice this! But we notice it in the form of emotional distress and anxiety and we slowly but surely become more and more unhappy while our partner pushes these boundaries. It is much better to sit down and talk about these changes than just to slowly do them. But I think you know this and I think you both communicate quite well now? I really, really hope you can both figure this out and keep your family together, and that Jenny will find her place in your lives but not at the expense of everything else.

Lidea, send me a pm here if you need to chat xx

[Emi_]

In truth, he will go as far as you let him go. This thing has a funny way of taking on a life of it's own if it isn't kept in check. The more you do it, the more you seem to want to do it and it takes more to be satisfied each time. If you feel he's gone too far, you have to say so. Marriage is a partnership and both sides need to have their say. It would be unhealthy for both of you to leave him unchecked particularly if you feel hat it could be detrimental to the marriage. He is your husband first, you and your well-being are most important.

[lexivanderpump]

Lidia,
My wife and I are going through the EXACT same thing. About one year ago, she finally allowed me to buy women's heels. I had told her that would be enough. Well now I own several pair of women's heels, dresses, makeup. Now I am hinting about buying a wig. I shave my legs and eventually want to shave my chest. I don't quite know how to explain it. I guess we are not happy until we have it "all". If my wife lets me buy a wig, I will do so. We have small children as well who will I presume eventually figure out that mom does not wear a size 12 heel. Someone once asked Rockefeller about money, "How much is enough?"....his response was...."Just a little bit more."......................................

[Greenie]

Oh lidea. I understand this feeling. Luca and I finally started couples counseling. We have a great therapist who is trans and is helping us navigate my fears. I worry those same things. Why so much so fast? I give an inch, he takes a mile. Will it ever be good enough. What happens when what he wants is just too much.

Being able to realize that you cannot ever plan forever. You can plan his cding about as much as you can plan for the loss of a job, or an illness.... not at all. The future is a scary place. You cannot make decisions on tomorrows possibilities. This is my new mantra. I need to repeat it to myself often.


You need to be able to be honest and clear with what you are ready for. Dont force yourself to be okay with exrta, to prevent something in the future. I have done then.... maybe if I dont tell him x makes me uncomfortable, I will get used to it and that will be enough. That is a disservice to you and to him. Its hard, but be honest from the start. My issue is "am I holding him back, but gosh x makes me so uncomfortable." As is with everything, communication.

[Lidea]

Thank you all for such great replies.


I guess I want to reitterate that communication is key, and that in my opinion it is cruel to marry someone without telling them about your CDing.

[Jenny Elwood]

Always progressing?

It is so strange that two people who share their lives and pretty much everything else (including some clothes/wigs) can have such different take on things. Earlier last night we had a nice intercession where we, to my mind anyway, had a nice discourse on the direction our lives has taken. I tried to assure her of my intentions and that I will try minimize the impact of my need for Jenny, because I know what having Jenny around does to her. To my mind we've already reached a fair balance between what I'm asking for and what she is willing to give, but for some reason she is thinking that I will forever try "stretch" that which we have mutually agreed upon. Not true. I have stated from the start (ever since the two week enforced absence thing) that two weeks is a long stretch and I stand by asking for a 10 day frequency. This has never changed.

Yes I enjoy going out. With her. I have no-one else to go out with. I have no friends who will not run for the hills if they knew. This is South Africa, liberal by constitution, conservative by nature (the part I live in anyway). But I've toned down my expectations appreciably because I understand that it is a lot more stressfull for her than it is for me. (at 6'6" without heels I have little hope of blending, let alone passing). My dear wife, you can set the numbers, I will conform to your wishes regarding this, which I most often do anyway. And thanks for finding it in your heart to accommodate Jenny, she is not the enemy you might think.

Regarding therapists they almost sent me down the TS route, so I'm a bit loathe. I'd rather spend the money on some nice dresses to clothe a distinctly male body in from time to time. I'm a man, I've dealt with it and got the (pink) T-shirt. Regarding the kids, I would not be a good father if I did not consider their well-being and the impact all of this has on them on a daily basis. I want what's best for my kids, who wouldn't, so keeping this a closely guarded secret is as much a priority for me as it is for you my dear. I see no benefit in them knowing, let's keep it that way.

I'm sorry for "stretching" you even in the slightest way regarding this, I know it was not what you signed up for when you married me 12 years ago. But thanks for accommodating my needs, it is appreciated far more than you know.

[trisha kobichenko]

My SO and I have been married for 34 years. She has only been aware of my desire to CD for the last 3 years. Suffice it to say there was some DRAMA surrounding me coming out to her. BUT an agreement we made long ago 'we are actually looking for the same outcomes, but may have different opinions on the process to get there' is still in place. We look to provide each other with happiness--she with acceptance of my revealed desires, I with acceptance of issues she has with them. We strive to make each other happy, period, without giving up who we are.
Trish

[Kate Simmons]

Just thought I'd mention something. When it comes to limitations or even perhaps trying to "quit" CDing, no matter how noble the reson, I discovered years ago just what a pull this process exerts on some of us. The best way I found it summed up was a song from Mariah Carey's debut album in 1990 entitled "You need me". This is the CDing process talking to the CDer and why I always say it's an emotional process with very deep rooted feelings. Understanding it and how it works is the key to control.

[Lidea]

Hi
This thread was not intended to hurt my husband or to make him out as always wanting to shift boundaries.
I merely used incidents in our relationship to explain my thoughts, after I read some posts on other threads where people encouraged one another to go to the next step 'now for the correct makeup' or 'now you just have to go out' etc.
The cheerleading that I referred to. I just tried to show that, depending on where your SO is coming from, a little push can be perceived by her as a big stretch.
To my husband's credit, he really tries hard not to push me. I know he would like a 10day thing but accepts the 2 weeks. I just always go back to the scenario where he didnt even had the oppertunity to fully dress, and he was okay with what he had.

If I gave the impression that he is ALWAYS pushing, then I'm sorry. That is not the case. True to his personality, he will often see if there is a chance for some forward movement, but I know him like that.

We had a good discussion last night and I do feel at a better place currently.

I am going to withdraw myself from this thread, since it looks like instead of throwing some geniune SO concerns on the table, it hurt my husband and put him in a bad light.
Sorry for anyone that felt offended by this.

Lidea

[Katey888]

Lidea - I don't think you have to apologise for having your own perspective in this... you are an equal partner in your relationship and have every right to challenge something that your partner wanted to do, particularly if it was to have a social impact on you and your family, which I imagine it would.

I have a little idea of the nature of how conservative your environment is - I'm not sure that understanding or appreciation is always shared by the cheerleaders on the forum - and at the end of it all, those who interact here (including me) are only individuals with an opinion. The only thing that qualifies us to be here is that we can be bothered to register and we all experience some part of the CD/TG condition... It doesn't mean that any advice here is either qualified or representative of what should or shouldn't happen, nor should you feel that just because other individuals have developed in a particular way that necessarily applies to anyone else...

Everyone here wants to help - but sometimes that help can be misplaced and less than useful - unfortunately, you have to decide which is right for you and your SO...

I think you're doing fantastically well so far - but remember to treat this place like anywhere else on the web... with extreme caution...

Katey x

[Jenny Elwood]

No! No! No! Katey, why are you getting her response count up?

My dear I am not hurt at all. What I said, I did not say from hurt, but just that people will be privy to my side as well. I'm sorry if I hijacked your thread and what your actual intention with it was. I'll be more careful in future to try fathom the intent behind your discourse. And I love you, more than ever.

Now I'm also getting her response count up. Ughh!

[Greenie]

If you and your husband are both on the site, you need to have a discussion about the forum being a safe place. You should never be made to feel guilty or like you did anything wrong for asking for advice. Many wives arent here and dont participate because they dont support their husbands. This conversation between the two of you on the thread is a little awkward and derailed your original attepmt to learn about cding and progression in a way that can make you a more supportive and thoughtful partner. I think you two need to discuss what can and cannot be talked about on the forum openly. Luca and I have a rule, the forum is a safe place. If I say something on here that makes him think.... well then good. its a conversation that we wouldnt have had normally. But it appears that lidea is apologizing for reaching out to the community for help. And thats not really the alternative a husband should want? A wife who posts nothing because she is afraid of the reaction she will get, so she learns nothing.

Please lidea, dont stop posting your questions. Learning more about this will help in the long run. Even if its uncomfortable now.

[Jenny Elwood]

I agree with the "don't stop posting" bit. And I'll try stay off your threads in future (even if it's just to keep the response count down).

[MsVal]

How far will it go.....
In an unrestrained environment, it will go as far as the crossdresser feels comfortable. Consider those that are single, live alone, and dress only at home. While they are free to go as far as they wish, they seem to have reached their point of comfort, and going further would present more discomfort than relief.

In a restrained environment, married with children is one, the same applies, but some of the discomfort may be due to things which may be changed. Therefore the requests for changes that will permit additional opportunities.

If sufficient opportunities are available, the restrained environment will resemble the unrestrained environment and the crossdressers will find their own point of equilibrium. No one, not even Jenny can say for sure what that point will be.

I liken it to people that enjoy a sport such as golf. It consumes time and money, and rewards better scores and enjoyment to those that devote greater of those consumables. In an unrestrained environment, we would be overrun with golf pros. We are not, because individuals reach their own points of greatest comfort.

I applaud your openness and willingness to talk about this sensitive issue. That speaks volumes about the love, dedication, and respect you two have for one another.