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Thread: Why so many fights here?

  1. #26
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    hate? really? heads definitely in arses over that (that's a long stretch to tuck?). disagreements will be inevitable
    Last edited by Nigella; 06-05-2016 at 01:46 PM. Reason: If you have an issue with the moderation or the way the forum is run, start a thread in the private help forum,
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  2. #27
    Crossdresser Taylor186's Avatar
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    Have to agree with Pam. I've frequented Trans forums where blood runs in the streets every post. Gladiatorial and barbaric, and seemingly unmoderated. This place is positively genteel in comparison, which is one reason why I enjoy coming back here.
    Last edited by Taylor186; 06-05-2016 at 07:46 PM.

  3. #28
    Madam Ambassador Heidi Stevens's Avatar
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    Thanks for the discussion, Jeanette. We've had some very diverse answers, but all seem to agree that we want moderators to pick off the obvious violators, but allow civilized disagreement.
    I know of a couple ladies no longer on the site because they got tired of being beat up by disagreeing folks. But most of the disagreements took place in PM's, so most of us never saw it.
    Bottom line is we can disagree publicly with out insulting or belittleing some one who doesn't agree on your way. I always remember an engineering professor who would use a phrase to point out there is almost always multiple answers: "There's more than one way to get to Chicago from here"
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  4. #29
    Member Anneliese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Fakley View Post
    This site is a pretty good demonstration of the spectrum of people who fall under the general "transgender" label from once in a blue moon fetish dressers on the one side, all the way to TS folk who have been transitioned for 40 years already.



    LOTS of excellent posts in this thread!
    Last edited by Lorileah; 06-05-2016 at 04:11 PM. Reason: no need to quote whole post just to agree

  5. #30
    Gold Member ~Joanne~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanetteX View Post
    (I must be cautious what I say)
    and that alone is a reason to worry. Should we always be walking on egg shells to discuss CDing? I haven't seen too many posts with a lot of fighting in them but at the same time, I haven't been coming around that much anymore because I get tired of feeling like a second class citizen on a CD FORUM.
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  6. #31
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Red face Blame it on Caitlyn!

    Serously, I think she's helped!

    I've been a regular here for about 8 years. And, I believe I see changes in the attitudes of the members. Dressers seem to me to be a lot more confident and willing to stand up for their rites these days. And, in posts here, their opinions and positions on dressing.

    I also credit the Mods. They seemed to have morphed along with members and allow more give and take, open discussions, and opinions than ever before.

    I hate hate! I think most folks do. I've seen some pointed disagreements, but can't recall ever reading an openly hate filled post here!
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  7. #32
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Long time listener, first time caller...OK , not. But really people, this forum does give you a good sounding board to agree and disagree as long as you follow the rules (yeah I now you clicked "agree" without reading, I did too 8 years ago). And yes, things get contentious, but honestly, we let a lot of borderline things slide because we want discussions. We don't have to agree (I have been here a looooong time and many of the people I have met here have gone elsewhere. We still may not agree but we still 'talk" and trust me, things were heated back then) and we have had some very strong discussions before. That's what we do. We aren't all the same.

    OK back to the show...but please read the FAQs again. Takes a couple minutes and then you won't get all knicker-twisted over what the MODs and Admins do here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi Stevens View Post
    But most of the disagreements took place in PM's, so most of us never saw it.
    You know you can report those too
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  8. #33
    Senior Member Gretchen_To_Be's Avatar
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    I'm with ~Joanne~

    There is a bit of competition here. We are all at different points on the spectrum. The lurker who has thought about taking tentative steps toward dressing as a woman, but cannot, looks up to those who have the means and situation to purchase clothes and shoes. Many have a wardrobe, but for their own valid reasons, can't shave, or can only dress in secret and envy those for whom it's no longer an issue. Often members would love to be out to their SOs or families but can't see that happening. Some may have freedom, but not the financial resources needed to do things that others take for granted. Many brave members conquer their fears and walk right out the door, and not just to CD events but in commonplace social situations, and leave us closet types admiring from our safe anonymity.

    Obviously we'd all love to look more like women--that's why we're here. We are in awe of those blessed with natural feminine faces, petite and slim physiques, and of course youth, which all help. While happy for them, I am jealous of their easy ability to look convincing. Quite a few members take permanent steps to feminize their appearance, and some realize they are truly women and transition.

    Those who have progressed in the spectrum can often unintentionally make others, who have not, feel a bit unworthy. It's human nature to extol one's positive attributes. I think most of us seek some validation, so we broadcast the elements of CD or TG of which we are most proud.

    I'm floored by those with the guts to go out in public with the muggles, and I express my admiration, as do others. When those members receive that fawning praise, it's a positive feedback loop. Once they have cleared that hurdle, it becomes their new normal, so their view of more closeted members evolves to, "What are you afraid of." Once in a while, that comes off as preachy.

    The super courageous folks who live life full time the way they were meant to have truly been through the crucible, so I don't blame them for sometimes seeing those of us in denial, suppression, or hiding as not being true to our authentic selves. Some have taken a very forward political stance and cajole us to be more active, lest we lose the right to wear dresses in private.

    It would be interesting to research how many members have gone through a progression from crossdressing to transitioning, and then, as they gain the ability to live their lives the way they were meant to, just sort of blend/fade away. They may pop up occasionally to give support or inspiration, but I suspect many no longer need this place. Maybe once they self-actualize, there is no more need for validation...nothing to prove? Or, like my friend ~Joanne~, those who are just CDs realize there are many other outlets for expression of our interesting lifestyles.

    There are many very vocal members here with strong opinions. I get turned off by the holier-than-though comments now and again. I've been attacked for my "materialism" for having a large collection of heels, or for being smarmy by posting pics with my fairly supportive spouse. I've thought about not coming back, but on the other hand there are so many beautiful and wonderful members here who always have a kind or clever word.

    It's a mixed bag. I think it's marginally positive, however, so I intend to stay.

    Cheers

    Gretchen
    Last edited by Gretchen_To_Be; 06-05-2016 at 04:54 PM.

  9. #34
    Member Lena's Avatar
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    Hate? I think that term is too easilly thrown around. I've seen opinionated discussions but I've not seen any hate on the forums. Maybe I've missed it.

    For me, this is the only place I can speak openly about the current events. I spend all day hearing coworkers, friends, politicians/elected officials, political parties running us in the ground, or using us as the target of jokes. I've seen anti-Crossdresser memes on some family member's Facebook feeds.

    Maybe I do get a bit edgy when even this place has people defending those that want to bring us harm.

    Recently, stuff in the outside world has gotten quite real. It's beyond just coming here to talk about a panty sale at Kohl's. I wish I could go back to those days but with the current situation, I can't ignore the real hatred that is being channeled at our community from outside.
    Last edited by Nigella; 06-05-2016 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Keep your moderation off the board

  10. #35
    Member Anneliese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lena View Post
    I spend all day hearing coworkers, friends, politicians/elected officials, political parties running us in the ground, or using us as the target of jokes. I've seen anti-Crossdresser memes on some family member's Facebook feeds.
    I recently came put to both my daughter and my best (female) friend, and, not surprisingly, they're both totally cool. I have a brother I will telling soon, and he will be fine.

    However, I have found out from friends who are on Facebook (not a great surprise considering his politics) my youngest brother is rabidly anti-CD/TS, and I just got off the phone with my best friend from college who is also anti. He doesn't want what he considers men of any kind in the lady's room, but says it would be ok with him if a man dressed as a woman was at the next urinal. I think he's in the minority on that.

    The haters just want us to disappear from their view.

    (or maybe they like we're around. Gives them something to focus on)
    Last edited by Anneliese; 06-05-2016 at 05:52 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mollyanne View Post
    It seems that because of the times we live in, amounting pressures from all fronts make people uneasy, angry, suspicious, or just argumentative.

    Molly
    I tend to agree with this. I also liked what Gretchen posted too. I have seen disagreements here, but not all out warfare yet!!

  12. #37
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    I'm all for healthy, enlightening discussions and welcome POV's that differ from mine as that is the only way that we will grow and expand our horizons.

    What I DO dislike intensely, however is when other posters rely on sarcasm, put-downs, name-calling and other such juvenile tactics to try to reinforce their points, rather than debate them on an intellectual basis and let them stand or fall on their own merits.

    That said, there are some posters here who shall be nameless but who really get under my skin because of their innate negativity no matter what the subject, and irregardless of what another member might have innocuously posted but which has put them on their radar screen to attract their particular brand of snark.

    Classic passive-aggressive behavior of the type best personified by the "Mean Girls" stereotype...
    Last edited by Leslie Langford; 06-05-2016 at 11:29 PM.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Lori Kurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracii G View Post
    Sometimes you need to let some one know when they are going off the rails.
    Yes, that's true, and I don't think my agreeing with this comment is necessarily inconsistent with my own earlier comment: "If we don't support each other with understanding and kindness, how can we expect anybody else to do that for us?"

    I think the most important thing for anyone who is about to "let someone know when they are going off the rails." is to ask himself or herself some questions like:
    - Is this comment that I'm about to make really for the good of the person I'm about to address it to, or is it to satisfy some needs of my own?
    - Is there kindness behind my comment, or is there hostility?
    - How can I say what I feel the need to say in a way that is likely to get through to the person, rather than create defensiveness?

    There is plenty of kindness and consideration here, but I have also definitely seen comments where the commenter has not thought enough about questions like those.

    Incidentally, I appreciate the efforts of the moderators, both in keeping the lines of communication open, and exercising their judgment about what kinds of comments go too far. As per the cliché, it's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

  14. #39
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    Hey Sis! Thank you for this thread!!

    OMG, I have so much to say that speaks to this thread but I'll START by echoing Sue and Ellen with their observations on the whole social media thing, posts can be sooo easily taken out of context and go way off track with nothing more than text, usually 24 hrs turn around time in the 'stew', and a few emoticons 😯 (that 'blob' was one of them, did anyone get it or should I just save the extra data on my phone?)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Langford View Post
    What I DO dislike intensely, however is when other posters rely on sarcasm, put-downs, name-calling and other such juvenile tactics to try to reinforce their points, rather than debate them on an intellectual basis and let them stand or fall on their own merits.
    That is one classic giveaway that someone has run out of arguments. The other would be silence.

    However, there are some things that I wish people would get beyond and move on to more substantive ideas. For example, how many times have we heard: "Well, Crossdressers can always retreat and go back to male mode."? This sounds just like (in concept) what bisexuals have heard for decades. The reality is that in the minds of the general public, there is no distinction between Crossdressers, Transgender folks and Transsexuals. In theory, any one of us could be accosted, called out, challenged, belittled, etc. in the same way. Also in theory, there may be no distinction in status if someone decides to press the issue forcefully. People don't stop to ask what you are because they feel they already know, and it wouldn't make any difference anyway. I suspect then, in a given situation, whether you present as female 100% of the time or once in a whatever, the odds of things going sideways may be pretty close. In part, this "retreat" notion may be part of the reason behind the concept of heirarchy.

    Previously, there was a lot of discussion here about Heirarchy. Heirarchy exists for 2 reasons. The first is because someone says there is a heirarchy. The second is because someone else agrees that it is so. It takes 2 to tango. Unfortunately, both seem to be covered here.

    There is also the suggestion by some that Crossdressers have it "easy", but I would question that. When you're living 2 disparate lives, it would seem to be VERY stressful. Granted, there is no doubt that transition is a difficult and arduous path. But, there is a lot of precedent for it, it is fairly well defined and goes in one direction only. And, in a number of locations there are specific legal protections in place. But, what happens if a previously closeted Crossdresser is outed without their consent? Transitioners expect the possibility of problems with family, employment, etc. Sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't, but these are potential hurdles that everyone has to face. However, for many Crossdressers, there is the constant risk of being found out. And, often when people are closeted it is because they expect strongly negative reactions to their truth. Note that this is not intended to suggest a Better Than/Worse Than situation. But, it should serve as a reminder that where ever you are on the spectrum (Crossdresser, Transgender person in the middle or Transsexual), there are risks, dangers and difficulties associated with all.

    We're ALL struggling with SOMETHING and no one has it easy.

    To me, if those 3 notions went away, the community As a whole would be much better off.

    DeeAnn

  16. #41
    This Time Around Lauri K's Avatar
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    Waiting for BT and Z to weigh in here.

    Transition is not linear............as the books and you tube videos suggest.

    Sorry Dee Ann but comparing CD's to TS/TG is not apples to apples comparison, TS / TG folks cannot magically switch back and forth like CD's can

    Once you grow your hair out, get boobs it's a one way street................

    Agree we are all struggling here and none of us has it made in the shade, but come on now be realistic

    This is why we get cross threaded here................
    Way too Girly ! I couldn't smell the smoke, and now I'll watch the flames

    Out on Parole ......Woo Hoo

  17. #42
    Banned Spammer gabyespinotv's Avatar
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    we are going to agree and disagree with certain topics...but one thing i don't understand is censorship and prudish moralism in a fetichistic forum.
    If you dont like the topic...don't read it..if you wanna express a different opinion...that's fine...but don't try to act like you're in the church forum because this clearly isn't it.
    So i agree with you..i honestly don't understand why is there so much fighting here.

  18. #43
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    Dear respected member,

    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    We're ALL struggling with SOMETHING and no one has it easy.
    DeeAnn
    Your absolutely right DeeAnn and gender identity is the root!

    (And my intro, maybe it should be mandatory, seriuosly, Docs use it 'defacto', mind you some young'un residents ARE slipping 😐 )

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri K View Post
    Sorry Dee Ann but comparing CD's to TS/TG is not apples to apples comparison, TS / TG folks cannot magically switch back and forth like CD's can
    First, I didn't say this. It pops up from time to time from the Transsexual end of the spectrum, so it isn't my comparison. And note that I mentioned 3 distinct categories: Crossdressers, Transgender folks in the middle of the spectrum and Transsexuals. The folks in the middle of the spectrum are not transitioning.

    When this particular notion comes up, someone from the Transsexual camp is lamenting that Crossdressers and Transgender folks in the middle of the spectrum have the option of returning to their male state when times get tough. In effect, it is a way of discounting the experience of Crossdressers and Transgender folks in the middle and is embedded in that notion of Heirarchy.

    So, the result is that while Transsexuals do have more exposure as they are in the public eye more often, the risk for Crossdressers and Transgender folks in the middle isn't that much different for any single situation.

    DeeAnn
    Last edited by flatlander_48; 06-05-2016 at 11:10 PM.

  20. #45
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    Oh good Lord if we could all just switch back there would be no need for this damn site.
    Last edited by Tracii G; 06-06-2016 at 12:06 AM.

  21. #46
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    There is a saying that you cannot understand someone until "you have walked in their shoes". This should resonate with all of use as we have all walked in our male mode and female mode. This is a diverse and complicated community. There are those that have just discovered the urge to crossdress. There are others for who transition is an imperative. We all are walking different paths but need to seek support from other that may have traveled a similar path. A closet crossdresser may get help from those that have shared their experience with a SO. Someone uncertain as to where they are on the transgender spectrum will get advice from those further along. A member who is contemplating SRS can get views from those that have decided that transition is right from them. This is a community. Individuals will all walk their own paths and there is no correct answer for all. However, we come to this forum to be a part of the community. People do not have the always agree but civil discourse is essential to keeping our community healthy.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    When this particular notion comes up, someone from the Transsexual camp is lamenting that Crossdressers and Transgender folks in the middle of the spectrum have the option of returning to their male state when times get tough. In effect, it is a way of discounting the experience of Crossdressers and Transgender folks in the middle and is embedded in that notion of Heirarchy.
    Why does it have to be "hierarchy" rather than "an important/significant difference"?

    For what it's worth, we expect the same acknowledgement of that difference from TS folks too - it's the full-time vs. part-time vs. full-time-except-for-blah thing.
    Last edited by Zooey; 06-06-2016 at 02:05 AM.
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  23. #48
    Aspiring Member Lacey New's Avatar
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    Not so sure I see a lot of fighting going on. In fact, I see more support. Every one of us is in a different place with respect to our sexual preferences, fetishes, hang-ups or whatever as well as in different places with respect to our gender identity. So what? Respect that. One thing is for sure in common for everyone here on this site - from time to time, we wear garments typically associated with the gender opposite of our birth gender. As such, we are all crossdressers. And guess what - that's the name of this site!! Relax and peace sisters.

  24. #49
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    Hi Jeanette, I read the threads and if it's something that I don't care for I will just move on.

    There were a couple members who's threads that I didn't even want to read.......
    Last edited by BLUE ORCHID; 06-06-2016 at 07:30 AM.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
    Why does it have to be "hierarchy" rather than "an important/significant difference"?
    You would have to ask the people who feel that way. I don't see a reason to do that. Personally, I think a lot of the distinctions that people try to impose are completely unnecessary and are intended (consciously or unconsciously) to separate rather than solidify. And as I said, the general public doesn't really see any sort of distinction. Across all 3 groups that I laid out, I think our chances of being challenged in a restroom, made fun of, etc. are roughly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
    For what it's worth, we expect the same acknowledgement of that difference from TS folks too - it's the full-time vs. part-time vs. full-time-except-for-blah thing.
    So, I would ask why that is necessary? Is there a particular point? From my observation, this information has been used negatively by some.

    DeeAnn

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