Thanks for letting me know I don't pass

[wendy360]

I've been working on going out dressed. I like walking around dressed, but am still nervous about it. Anyway I went out last night around 10 for a walk around the neighborhood and as usual it was very enjoyable. When I got home I thought I would get up early and go for another walk. So I got up at 5 and put some makeup on and my forms. Put on a cute knee length blue and white skirt and a white top, thigh high stockings and a pair of blue sandals I just bought at pay less, and my wig. It was cool this morning so I grabbed a black leather jacket. While I was out I decided to be adventurous and stop at the local doughnut shop and pick up something. The gal at the wig store said that if this is who you are then people just need to accept it. Easier said than done. As I was approaching the doughnut shop I saw a pick up drive into the driveway and thought, great I guess it won't be empty at 6 in the morning. As I got closer I saw 2 men sitting having coffee. OK 3 men in a doughnut shop and a cross dresser. Do I really want to go there? I almost walked right on by and then I thought oh what the hell just do it. So I walked in and the lady behind the counter was nice and wished me a good morning. Then called for someone in the back to help her. An older man walks out asks me what I wanted and I gave him my order. As he was putting the doughnuts in the bag he says..."do you want anything else...SIR" OH thanks for noticing the wig, the breasts, the skirt, the nylons. I guess the only saving grace was that the 3 men didn't say a word. Maybe I'll try another doughnut shop next week.

[Veronica75]

So much for "the customer's always right". If that older guy is the owner or manager he should realize that, whatever his own prejudices, driving away business in this economy is just plain stupid. If I were you I'd avoid that donut shop forever, and tell others that they were very rude to you one time you went there (no need to elaborate) and they should stay away too.

[Phyliss]

..."do you want anything else...SIR"

Mental retort, "Yeah, ... How about you drop into a big hole, jerk"

Doncha just hate something like that?

[kay_jessica]

Wendy,

I don't think you have ever posted a pic of yourself so how could we let you know if you pass or not!

Kay

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Wendy-

First of all, let me say I understand the feeling<big hug>, it's happened to me, in fact I think it has probably happened to nearly all of us at one time or another. Here's the deal, you probably already know this: some people are just jerks and a**holes, they can't help it, it's like a social handicap. Simply avoid them, for instance, like the other girls said, don't go to that shop anymore.

Speaking for myself, I know I don't pass. Most of the time people don't seem to notice or care, which I consider just as good as. The rest of them don't matter. Just be yourself and don't let them get to you. They're not worth the energy. Best of luck on your journey, girl.

****I was going to add this below Kate's post, but fwiw, I guess I will just toss it out here. Wendy, the first couple of sentences in your post seem to indicate that you haven't been out very much. Passing, or at least passing a little better, takes practice, but don't worry, you'll get better at it. It's not just about the clothes, the wig, the forms and the makeup, it's the intangible things that people cue in on that get us read. Things like gestures, mannerisms, body language, facial expressions, all of those and more are what people notice unconsciously and make them decide, girl, boy or ? . And oh yeah, almost forgot...the voice. The toughest one. You can look like a model, but if you open your mouth and guy comes out it kind of spoils the effect. Not being critical of you, maybe you were perfect and he happened to read you and was just a jerk about it.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[TxKimberly]

Yeah, there was a movie theater in Indy where the older lady selling the tickets always went out of her way to call me sir. Very annoying that!

[KateSpade83]

You should post your pics here for constructive criticism on passing!

[TGMarla]

Hmmm...there's a moron for every situation, I guess. Your life is not changed one iota just because donut man with closed mind can tell you're in drag. Screw him.

[DianneRoberts]

To really mess with him MAYBE the proper response would have been

"...I'm all set, no thank you...Ma'am"

[KaraChristine]

Hi Wendy, sorry you had to put up with Donut Shop Dude. It's easy to say "just ignore it" but I know from my own experience that it's so hard to put that into practice. Especially when you feel so great about yourself and the way you look, then someone makes sure to knock you down a bit.

For the record, I think all of us on this forum know how painful experiences like this can be. And most of us can probably vouch for the fact that it does eventually get easier. There will always be mean people who try to hurt us (whoever we are) but the sting and the pain and tears become less hurtful as time goes on.

It takes amazing amounts of courage and determination to leave the house dressed - you're single handedly taking on hundreds of years of social taboo and conditioning, doing something that the toughest macho men would be frightened to death of attempting. So you've already won the second you walk out that door - and anyone who doesn't give you their admiration and respect is an immature idiot in my opinion.

I've been living full time as female for 7 months now, back at work full time for 3 months, and this kind of stuff still happens almost once a day. I was walking by a group of guys yesterday in fact and they looked at me scornfully as I passed and I overheard one say, "I told you - look at how big it's hands are..." - the amazing thing was that it didn't hurt so much anymore. A few months ago I would have scampered home crying, but I just looked at them in the eye and smiled and kept walking. As you're out and about more you won't have to make the effort to ignore stuff, it will just end up hurting less and less and you'll realize that it's meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

Sorry about the long winded lecture but this is something I feel really strongly about and I think it's important to not let stuff like this force you back in that boring, stifling closet!! (well, except to pick out a new outfit!!).

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Wendy,

You know .. it "could" be that they're doing on purpose, and letting you know, that they "read" you ... but I tend to think that they think they're being polite! Think about it, they aren't part of the TG community, they don't deal with TG people on a regular everyday basis and they see this person in front of them that is giving off apparently more male signals than female ones, what do they do? .... answer: They be polite and not mention the clothes, act like they haven't noticed a single thing, and call you "sir" because they read that you're biologically male and that you're the customer.

I think this is about the regular public not knowing what to say or do when they encounter a person who doesn't fit into either of the two boxes "male" or "female". It's happened to me too and it's a bit crushing as you think to yourself "can't they see what I'm trying to say? (be?)" ... I think it just means that these people need to be educated in how to address a TG person.

If we get a new bartender at our River City Gems TG socials who's never worked with a TG group before we always tell them that - "everyone here tonight is a lady" and to please address them as such. They're always happy to be guided on the etiquette. That's what this could be - ignorance.

[Christina Horton]

I have had something like that happen when I first started going out. I go to the future shop in drab and I wanted to go there dressed. So one gray sat morn, I went. I wad looking for a new tv DVD player they works on ac/dc current for my rig. I asked a SA but he did not know if they had them. He and I walked to another SA and he asked him ( here it comes) "do we have tv/dvd player for a truck. He...she is looking for one." He did not say it wrong to be mean , he changed it to she just as he said he. I did feel a little sad and knew I did not pass , but he did corcect him self and I feel good that he at lest called me she. So mine if not bad. Yours I would have tossed the food at his face and asked for my money back if the insalt. But that's me.

Keep you head up and keep going out. If you read some of my threads you might see why we don't need to pass to be happy.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

I do agree that sometimes it's simply a bit of confusion on the other person's part, like Christina had happen to her. I have had people correct themselves in midstride and call me ma'am or miss. Personally I don't mind the getting read, it's the deliberate discourtesy that upsets me.

However, there have been occasions when the other person looks me in the eye and puts that slight but definite emphasis on the word "Sir" along with that special little smirk that says, "You're not fooling me for one single second and I want to make sure you know it and that everyone else in earshot knows it, too." No benefit of the doubt there. And they are the ones who get a complaint to the management, or if they're in charge, the assurance that there won't be any repeat business from me or any other person I know.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[wendy360]

Thanks everyone for the incourageing words.
To Kay, I never said I could pass. I'm 6'5 and wear 2xl tops, I'm not fat I wear size 9 jeans but I have shoulders like a football player.
I just came home and had to blow off some steam. Thats the great thing about this forum, you can blow off some steam and get some possitive responses from the members.
I know I still have alot of work to do and may never pass100%, but I still enjoy dressing and going out and will continue to do it.
BTW I have a great pay less shoe store near me where the cashier is very acomadating and nice. I have not gone in dressed but it may be the next place that I would try.
Thanks again.

[Jolene]

I admire those of you who are brave enough to go out dressed. You carry the torch for the rest of us.

[KarenSusan]

To really mess with him MAYBE the proper response would have been

"...I'm all set, no thank you...Ma'am"

That would have been a GREAT response.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Wendy-

Well okay then, maybe it wasn't something intangible.<lol> But I still think you should be addressed according to how you're presenting yourself. Courtesy doesn't cost anything, from experience I can tell you the people at Payless will know how to behave.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[battybattybats]

Maybe you should post the address of this donut shop.

Then everyone from your area on the forum could mail them an empty bag from another donut shop to show the business they are not getting because of their bigotry?

Or at least know not to go there.

[TSchapes]

just don't call me late for dinner!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

I'm of the belief that it was an uninformed choice of words. I think the nice part is you weren't threatened in any way, then I would be upset. Keep in mind that I've been out and heard things like, "look at the fag", "yea let's beat up the fag!" So, in the grand scheme of things, I think you did OK!

I say uninformed because many people aren't familiar with our community and how to respond to us. I was talking to the manager of the Crowne Plaza Hotel where the Southern Comfort Conference is held, and he said they had mini-classes for the staff on how we wish to be treated, and a little bit about the community.

So education is needed, not sarcasm or snottiness (though I know how you feel). You could have said, "I prefer to be called ma'm."

-Tracy

[Annette_boy]

I would have said and I do not want these now either and left never to return and would consider if it were a large chain shop reportint them to corperate HQ but thats Just me. I bo not suffer fools and rude A@# H&%@s Lightly. you Go girl and be yourself you have every right to go wher you want wearing what you want
Hugs Annete

[Jessica Who]

Ah, ignorance. It comes in all shapes and sizes. Don't let it get you down, kudos on going on and being adventurous!!!

[Seamus_Jameson]

Wendy,

Don't let it get you down. The first time I got called ma'am while dressed, I stopped dead for several moments. When I got my composure back, I shoved my money in his hand (gas station). "I've got your money," he said, with that "dumb females" smirk, "What do you want me to do with it?" "Seven," I said shortly. "Okay, pump seven. Thank you." I turned and walked out without saying another word.

Basically, it could have been ignorance. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt. But you know when you're being mocked. Real men don't treat a woman rudely, no matter what she looks like. That's the only bit of advice I can give: if you don't know the feminine art of raising your voice (in pitch, not volume) and letting everyone know that *you* are outraged, learn it. At 6'5", there are plenty of situations where you'd be safe throwing a womanly tantrum and getting the treatment you deserve.

[kimmy p]

My wife once did that to a sister at a SCA event. He/she came no where near passing but was still dressed in her mid-evil finest. She was also was in very poor health and having a hard time walking. Even married to me my wife went over to her and said "Do you need any help my lord"? (We tried to talk forsoothly) She responded with a "No thank you, and it's My Lady". He was a little annoyed, but my wife was genuinely trying to be nice and didn't know. I like to play it safe, I call people by their clothing. It usually works out best. The guy may not have meant to be a jerk, but then again......

[MissConstrued]

I don't understand all the hubbub. You are a male, are you not?

What right do you have to demand anyone call you exactly what you like? Most people do not read minds. It's the height of arrogance to expect anything different.

[Jonianne]

I don't think a little bit of venting is anywhere near "the height of arrogance".

Wendy, I was in a situation almost exactly like yours a while back where when the owner (?) also came out to take my order in stead of the waitress. The only other customers who were in the restraunt got up and walked out without finishing their order. We talked for the 15 min waiting on my order and he was not disrespectful, but I did feel he wanted to blame me for the group walking out. I tried to be a good representative of cd'ers but it's hard when they think you cost them business. So just try to be understanding as much as possible and leave a positive impression if you can.

As far as being called "sir", most people don't know our protocol while we are dressed and I have noticed that since I wear my hair most of the time "femme", even in drab, people tend to make it a point to call me "sir", not out of disrespect, but it seems to me, they feel good about being able to figure out what gender I am and call me "correctly". It's like they are saying it with a "Yes!, I got it right!" expression.

I also know when they are intentionaly being disrespectful, like when some guy just started forcing a long, hysterical laugh while I passed by. What a jerk.