How many of you are straight but flirt with men anyway?

[helencarpenter]

Well I'm definitely still in the closet, but I kind of do this. I don't know if any of you have ever heard of omegle, but it's a random, anonymous video chatting site. I like to get dressed up and try to talk to people on there, to build my confidence to the point where I can leave the house. I never take it too far, but it does make me feel kind of good that some guys really, really want to talk to me, so I do kind of return the flirting.

It might be weird, but it's my way of building confidence.

[sandra-leigh]

I don't Pass even fully dressed, not even at a distance in bad light. If some guy gets up close enough to sit near me and still can't decide what my face suggests more, then the guy is too drunk to want anything to deal with anyhow, and said drunk doesn't get straight answers out of me about my gender.

A guy who is not drunk is probably pretty sure I was born male. If he asks anyhow, to be sure, he gets an answer, and I then proceed to bore him about how hard it is to find clothes and so on. It usually doesn't take long for the message to get through that I'm not there to be picked up.

I don't flirt with the guys; I don't know how to flirt with anyone. The only person I know of who is worse at flirting than I am, is my wife.

[seanmuscle]

CDs just want to be loved by a strong masculine man just like any other girl. Men that date CDs are not into the male parts. In most relationships the CD assumes the more submissive feminine role while the man assumes the dominant protective role. Same goes in the bedroom. Masculinity complements femininity.

If you are in a CD relationship with your husband then its not fair for both of you. Because we all know you both deep down want real men as partners. Reine dont take this the wrong way but maybe you are bisexual? That is the only way I see the relationship with your CD husband working lol

[cdona20]

Sean, you are making some pretty big assumptions there. The way you talk makes it seem like you are speaking for all CDs. You must understand that not all ideal relationships for a CD are like that. I personally have a GF who I am pretty much en femme with whenever she is around and I am by far and away the butch in the relationship (at least in comparison to her). And frankly I wouldn't have it any other way. She is my ideal partner, pretty, smart and way fem. I know I started this thread to discuss flirting with guys (my GF and I have an "open" relationship) but really, I don't ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is masculine.

Just my 2 cents.

[Michelle.M]

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question.

Hmmm . . . well, that's not me (at least for now), although I definitely know what's going on inside my own head. But this thread has suddenly gotten much more interesting! I will stay tuned to see what sort of dialogue develops.

[ReineD]

CDs just want to be loved by a strong masculine man just like any other girl. Men that date CDs are not into the male parts. In most relationships the CD assumes the more submissive feminine role while the man assumes the dominant protective role. Same goes in the bedroom. Masculinity complements femininity.l

Sean, if you go through and read older posts on the topic, you'll find reports by TSs who've been active on TG dating sites and who say that most of the admirers are not interested in post-ops.

Of course this doesn't describe everyone and I respect your personal preferences. But, I do have a question. What is it about CDs specifically that attracts you? If you were attracted to femininity, you'd be attracted to GGs as well?

There are plenty of people who are bi, and who base their attraction on a person's inner being more than anatomy. But, it follows that such attractions would be developed after they get to know a potential partner in real life? If there's a deliberate choice to hang out in places where the feminine members have male anatomy, then surely this has something to do with the attraction?

I may be missing something here, and I don't want to offend anyone with my question. But honestly, I don't follow the logic here.

[seanmuscle]

Sean, you are making some pretty big assumptions there. The way you talk makes it seem like you are speaking for all CDs. You must understand that not all ideal relationships for a CD are like that. I personally have a GF who I am pretty much en femme with whenever she is around and I am by far and away the butch in the relationship (at least in comparison to her). And frankly I wouldn't have it any other way. She is my ideal partner, pretty, smart and way fem. I know I started this thread to discuss flirting with guys (my GF and I have an "open" relationship) but really, I don't ever want to be in a relationship with someone who is masculine.

Just my 2 cents.

Look you love when your buddy flirted with you and unfortunately he abused that trust. But I have seen it happen all to often with CDs. Progression from fantasies, to flirting with men etc... It grows over time. When he looks at you and treats you like a woman you feel weak, excited and giddy like a school girl. Being with a man will make you feel like a real woman.

No, you are talking about sites like craigslist where unfortunately pervs with fetish go. Men do have attraction to CDs if she is passable just like any other GG. And there is no agenda. CDs are treated just like any other girl. And it works both ways because most CDs state they like to be the woman in the relationship. If I am not mistaken a CD member here actually has a marriage with a very straight acting man. She is that petite CD. I forgot her name though.

[cdona20]

Whoa there pardner! As good as it feels to be treated feminine it does not induce some sort of craving for male genitalia. It was fun to flirt with my friend but if I had more time to spend with my girlfriend, I probably wouldn't need to get my attention fix from men. It's fun to tease, exhilarating even, but it's just that, teasing. If I could describe it in a more rude and crude way on this forum I would but I must keep this in good taste.

My GF does just fine in treating me like a lady and that is all I'll ever truly want or need.

[ReineD]

No, you are talking about sites like craigslist where unfortunately pervs with fetish go. Men do have attraction to CDs if she is passable just like any other GG. And there is no agenda.

So, you didn't answer my question.

What particularly attracts you to a CD that you don't know, over a GG?

[Barbara Dugan]

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question.

Interesting Question Reine, I don't claim to be an expert but I can answer based on my personal experience...I only have attraction for masculine guys and yes the feeling its greatly enhanced when they treat you like a woman..I think the admirers cant really be stereotyped as the same way CDs can't be...I've been fortunate to meet some real nice admirers..I think I can't be much specific about it because of the nature of this forum ... but what I can tell and assure is that I gave all my body and soul to enjoy that moment regardless of the agenda

[Gaby2]

You are catching quite a few of us off-guard here cdona!

I'll flirt with almost anyone, at almost any time, almost anywhere - the sillier the better - for me it's a good laugh! Everyone takes things so seriously!
I try not to embarass anybody and it normally gets a conversation off to a good start!
However, when I'm drunk I've learnt to keep my mouth shut and not try to flirt.

Admittably, it used to bother me slightly that I might be sending misleading signals to friends of mine, particularly those who are gay.
At some stage I realised that everybody is as (dis)interested in me as I am in them.
So I feel quite secure flirting with men and/or women.

Now, everyone only knows closet-me in drab, and I'm pretty drabby in everyday casual-look.
I would dearly love to show-off and flirt like you!

Recently I landed a new, rather young hairdresser. He's talented and he made me look great for a concert. I find him attractive, especially because he makes such a big deal of my "fabulous" hair. I never thought I would ever fall for flattery!!!
... and I would love to see what he would make of me as a woman
Gaby

[ReineD]

but what I can tell and assure is that I gave all my body and soul to enjoy that moment regardless of the agenda

Yeah, but it's different for you! You're gay and proud of it, no matter how you dress.

I guess my question is addressed more to the self-identified hetero CDers who don't normally have an attraction to men except when they're dressed and who, for the reasons explained above, find it exciting and thrilling when a man is attracted to them while dressed. Again, do they realize that when this happens the man is also attracted to the very thing they seek to hide when they are dressed. Does it ruin the fantasy if they know and feel this?

[cdona20]

The part of us admirers are attracted to that you are focusing on isn't the only thing they are attracted to. Seanmuscle said it himself, he is only attracted to CDs that can pass. Even CD admirers have standards. He may be attracted to your boy parts but that is only a small piece of the whole picture. So when a guy flirts with you it is a sign that your womanly parts, the parts you actually put effort into making less masculine, check out. And as I tried to imply in the OP, most of the time men don't even know I have boy parts to hide when they start out so it all doesn't really bother me at all.

[docrobbysherry]

Yeah, but it's different for you! You're gay and proud of it, no matter how you dress.

I guess my question is addressed more to the self-identified hetero CDers who don't normally have an attraction to men except when they're dressed and who, for the reasons explained above, find it exciting and thrilling when a man is attracted to them while dressed. Again, do they realize that when this happens the man is also attracted to the very thing they seek to hide when they are dressed. Does it ruin the fantasy if they know and feel this?

I may NOT be in your target demographic exactly, Reine, but I am a straight CD who NOW flirts! There's NOTHING about males that turns me on. However, after years of replying, "U know, I'm straight?", now I usually give a compliment or sexy tease to the guys and CDs who say nice respectful things about Sherry! If they get dirty or pushy, they get deleted!

Here's something u need to know, also. There's a big difference between flirting online and in person! Online, yeah I do, with a sweet guy! In person? I NEVER would!

[katesometimes]

Which brings me to my question ... doesn't this present a conflict for you? Does knowing that an admirer sees you fundamentally as a guy and he's just doing what guys do when they want sex, make you feel any less feminine? Or is this something you just don't like to think about when you are dressed? I hope you don't mind my asking, but it does fit in with the thread topic.

It just seems to me there are two different agendas going on between CDs and admirers and I was wondering if knowing the reality of it all makes any difference to your feminine feelings that become enhanced when you think they are seeing you as women. Or, like I said, does it make any difference?

I admire the brave souls who will tackle my question.

I'll try and tackle this...For me it's all part of the illusion. I know I'm not a woman and will never look like one, but to be treated like one for whatever reason makes me feel special. And I'll play along, up to a point, and that's mostly because I'm in a wonderful monogamous relationship with my wife.

[ReineD]

The part of us admirers are attracted to that you are focusing on isn't the only thing they are attracted to. Seanmuscle said it himself, he is only attracted to CDs that can pass. Even CD admirers have standards. He may be attracted to your boy parts but that is only a small piece of the whole picture. So when a guy flirts with you it is a sign that your womanly parts, the parts you actually put effort into making less masculine, check out. And as I tried to imply in the OP, most of the time men don't even know I have boy parts to hide when they start out so it all doesn't really bother me at all.

I hear what you're saying, and it's true that in your pic you don't look like a guy. But this is not true for a large numbers of the CDers who get hit on when they are dressed. We're getting back to the old question, which is how realistic is it to believe that CDers can make others believe they are GGs? Sadly, this doesn't happen all too often especially in real life unless a CD is young, lithe, fairly small for a guy, and does not have an overly masculine physiognomy. And from what I read here, it also take dozens of pics before finding just the right one where the gender lines are blurred.

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed. Granted, the attraction for these men is the fact that the CD is dressed, over an attraction to a guy who is not dressed. So yes, the attraction is to feminine men, but men just the same. This is why I said there was a different agenda, since in the CDer's mind at that moment, she is a girl and not a guy in a dress. If that makes sense.

So, since there hasn't been a stampede to answer my question, lol, I'm thinking that fundamentally the CDer (generally speaking) knows it is all a fantasy, but makes the subconscious decision to go ahead and throw herself into the fantasy, simply because it is too much fun. During these times it would be counter productive to ask herself too many questions about what the admirers are really after? I'm just guessing here.

[Rogina B]

As I posted before..if the fantasy is the "power of the pussycat" count me in! I enjoy playing the part and wish i had been born a "trophy wife" rather than the guy bringing home the bacon.

[busker]

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed.

Some months ago, someone posted a link to a study that suggested (if I remember correctly) that ultimately, most TS people are gay, and that I would assume means pre-op, post-op and no-op. No-op would then be kind of equal to a cd equipment-wise. I discount the hormones because they would have the same effect on a straight male who had NO interest in being a cd as they would on a TG/TS person.
Someone made the joke about what is the difference between a cd and a ts? 2 years was the answer, implying that eventually we are all headed to the same end, whether we have srs or not, as the case may be.

I'll try to ask this in as neutral a way as possible so as not to offend any reader here, and no offense is meant.

From having looked at some "*******" sites in the past, my take is that the study conclusion is accurate in as much as most of what I saw were "trannies" having gay sex, and that would probably be in the same proportion to sites featuring women who pose as opposed to women who are engaged in some sexual play with a male who may be gay or not as I understand it to be standard practice in the porn business.

So my question to you Reine is, are you suggesting that many Cds might be either closeted or openly bi-sexual or homosexuals in that they strive to appear as feminine as possible in order to attract males, who as you have pointed out, know that they have the male naughty bits under their skirts, and the ultimate goal is sexual in nature? And, dressing is merely a way to avoid the label of gay, as long as it can be seen by the Cd as a fantasy? As I have pointed out before, there is an awful high interest in threads like "dating Cds", "would you date...." . I think that I also exempt the fetishists and hobbyists from my question as they seem to have a clear agenda that doesn't necessarily involve attracting males for sex.

I think we all like to look to the psychological or biological answers as to why we do wear women's clothing, but it could be that we are so clever that we can find other ways to rationalize our inner natures to be as least abhorrent as possible.

[Barbara Dugan]

I think it's pretty safe to say that in most cases, the admirers or men who are attracted to CDs know that the CDs are guys who are dressed. Granted, the attraction for these men is the fact that the CD is dressed, over an attraction to a guy who is not dressed. So yes, the attraction is to feminine men, but men just the same. This is why I said there was a different agenda, since in the CDer's mind at that moment, she is a girl and not a guy in a dress. If that makes sense.
.

It doesn't because the vast majority of male admirers identify themselves as straight..Oddly enough the handful of female admirers that I've came across identified themselves as Bisexual
Now you have a Hetero CD flirting with an straight guy....I wonder what happen when the fantasy became reality?

[Michelle.M]

Some months ago, someone posted a link to a study that suggested (if I remember correctly) that ultimately, most TS people are gay . . .

I don't want to sound like some sort if gender nazi, nor do I want to stifle dialogue, but you might want to do a little research on this one.

The notion that most TS are gay was an assertion by a variety of 1970's era practioners such as J. Michael Bailey, Paul Blanchard and similar so-called researchers. Fundamentally, their theories reinforced negative stereotypes and catered to the agendas of those who wanted to vilify the trans community by playing to conservative and religious interests. Many books have been written to counter this sort of backward thinking by merely demonstrating that the "studies" did not follow established research methodologies and were based on legend and self interest, and thus fundamentally invalid.

In any event, it is unfair to generalize anyone's sexuality, regardless of how they define themselves. To paint pre, post and non-op TS, and crossdressers as well, with the same brush denies individuality and is no better than doing the same thing to members of any other diverse group of people, hetero or otherwise.

Ultimately, it is the person herself, or himself, who has the right and privilege to define their own sexuality, and not anyone else. If a TS in any one of the op-states I have mentioned says "Well, I am a ____ and I prefer to date ___ " that does not give anyone the right to say "Baloney. They were born with a penis so they're gay. End of discussion." To be frank, that is the same sort of thinking that has at a minimum marginalized the TG community for so long and these outdated beliefs serve only as roadblocks to acceptance and integration, and reinforce shame and prevent people struggling with accepting their own gender identity from getting help to understand themselves and move forward in their lives.

Finally, believing that looking at ******* websites will give anyone insight as to what transsexuals are all about is like trying to understand what teachers, secretaries and airline flight attendants are like by looking at other porn sites. I've logged hundreds of thousands of air miles and not once have I ever seen a flight attendant have sex with a passenger. These are porn sites They're fantasy, they are entertainment, and nothing more, and should not be regarded as a reliable barometer of anything other than what is marketable for that particular audience.

[ReineD]

So my question to you Reine is, are you suggesting that many Cds might be either closeted or openly bi-sexual or homosexuals in that they strive to appear as feminine as possible in order to attract males, who as you have pointed out, know that they have the male naughty bits under their skirts, and the ultimate goal is sexual in nature? And, dressing is merely a way to avoid the label of gay, as long as it can be seen by the Cd as a fantasy?

There may be some CDers who fit this description, but I don't think it's true for most.

Experts say that gender ID is not tied to sexual preference. But, I do believe the very nature of being gender fluid (I'm speaking of CDers here and not TSs, who do know that they are women) makes it easier to be sexually fluid as well. Gender is not cut and dried, so it makes sense that sexuality isn't either.

Having said this, there are hetero CDs who say that once they're in the bedroom with a guy after all the clothes have come off, the illusion is shattered and they are turned off. So the attraction isn't to the guy, but rather, it is to be desired as a woman. The guys just come in handy during the fantasy for the reasons mentioned earlier. If anything, I would define this as a variation of 'autogynephilia' (the love of oneself as a woman), but with the blank image of a guy thrown in (or an anonymous guy via the internet) to make the experience all the more real.

Keep in mind, everything I say is pure conjecture and they're just ideas I'm bringing forth in case some people want to try them on to see if they fit.

Some CDers here have said they've been with men dressed and they've loved every minute and would do it again and since you ask, I do think these people are either gay or bi, or top of being transgender. There's nothing wrong with that. The importance is for them to know who they are, so they don't get into relationships with GGs and say they are straight.

And then there are the many other CDers who don't look for sexual experiences with men when they're dressed at all, or who've tried it once and know that it definitely isn't for them.

It doesn't because the vast majority of male admirers identify themselves as straight..

But this is where the logic breaks down. They're not straight if they are specifically attracted to men (or if you prefer, a feminine person who also has a penis), are they? They aren't attracted to GGs and again, from what I've read they're not attracted to post-op transwomen either.

[Sandy Banks]

Your post caused a large response and it provoked me to do some deep thinking. So far I'm straight and have no attraction to males, however if a CD as attractive as you or Barbara Melendez hit on me, I'm pretty sure I'd cross the line........so am I a true lesbian???? or am I just confused????

[busker]

The notion that most TS are gay was an assertion by a variety of 1970's era practioners such as J. Michael Bailey, Paul Blanchard and similar so-called researchers.
I wasn't trying to define anyone, merely parroting what I thought that I remembered with regard to the conclusion of a study someone mentioned.
In any event, it is unfair to generalize anyone's sexuality, regardless of how they define themselves. To paint pre, post and non-op TS, and crossdressers as well, with the same brush denies individuality and is no better than doing the same thing to members of any other diverse group of people, hetero or otherwise.
We all have some common characteristics and we all make some generalizations because trying to indentify everyone in every context would be tedious beyond belief.

Ultimately, it is the person herself, or himself, who has the right and privilege to define their own sexuality, and not anyone else. If a TS in any one of the op-states I have mentioned says "Well, I am a ____ and I prefer to date ___ " that does not give anyone the right to say "Baloney. They were born with a penis so they're gay. End of discussion." To be frank, that is the same sort of thinking that has at a minimum marginalized the TG community for so long and these outdated beliefs serve only as roadblocks to acceptance and integration, and reinforce shame and prevent people struggling with accepting their own gender identity from getting help to understand themselves and move forward in their lives.

Finally, believing that looking at ******* websites will give anyone insight as to what transsexuals are all about is like trying to understand what teachers, secretaries and airline flight attendants are like by looking at other porn sites.
Perhaps it won't explain everything, but if two people are having anal intercourse, then I think it is a safe bet to say that they are NOT heterosexual (although someone may say that they will take pay to be gay.) Hell would freeze over before anyone other than my doctor stuck anything up my butt. So I guess my conclusiion is that if one is have Anal Intercourse, it is likely a gay activity., in my opinion I've logged hundreds of thousands of air miles and not once have I ever seen a flight attendant have sex with a passenger. I've flown a few times myself, and while I have never been in an airplane crash, I do know that they happen
These are porn sites They're fantasy, they are entertainment, and nothing more, and should not be regarded as a reliable barometer of anything other than what is marketable for that particular audience.

I suspect that a lot of standard bedroom fare between males and females is a lot of fantasy, entertainment as well. It may also not be a barometer of how well that couple is doing as a couple either.
I was not meaning to be argumentative, but asking Reine a question based on a conclusion THAT SOMEONE ELSE DREW. the conclusion may have been faulty, but the question remains and could have been asked without mentioning the study, which I did not read, but saw in some thread.
My question was not unlike that asked by many wives of cders--are you gay? It is a valid question and one that can elicit many answers, some perhaps not entirely true. We are very clever as a species, and knowing how many cders here have NOT come out to their SOs, is it any wonder why the question is asked in the first place?
If I have stepped on some toes, it wasn't intentionally done. Any time the motives of people are questioned, somebody is going to feel picked on, but in order to have a dialogue, we need to make some assertions, even if they are later proven wrong. I have not said anything about my views being a world view, nor are they necessarily MY views, just a starting point for discussion.

[prene]

Your post caused a large response and it provoked me to do some deep thinking. So far I'm straight and have no attraction to males, however if a CD as attractive as you or Barbara Melendez hit on me, I'm pretty sure I'd cross the line........so am I a true lesbian???? or am I just confused????

Sandy,
Thanks for that one.
Well one thing . . . I am confused for sure.
I love being feminine 100% and love the female form.
I guess I am going to see where it all takes me.
I do admit I feel great when when I get males attention and I have thought about it.
But heck, unless I am just so unusuall compared to everyone else I do have intresting thoughts.
Not that I will or will not act on them ... I do wonder.

Heck I wonder what it would be if I was born a woman.


I am just a confused gurl.

[Persephone]

Anywho I just wondered if anyone else who was straight/lesbian liked to flirt with men or has any interesting stories to share.

I don't deliberately try to flirt with men, but I think that just being "in character" as a woman makes it automatic to be a bit "flirty." Guys are the "opposite sex" after all and most women play a different role in the presence of men than they do when in a group of all women. It just seems appropriate to be a bit softer and sweeter, certainly softer and sweeter than you would be if you were a guy talking to another guy.

Still, just because you like dogs or cats and will pet or play with one at the adoption center it doesn't mean that you want to take one home with you.

This has come up before, so if you'll bear with me, there's something I'd like to ask and not being TG it's more complicated for me, so I need to use a lot of words. lol

Yipes! You've left my poor little brain reeling, Reine! That's like reading science fiction about time travel and "temporal displacement." Shades of Schrodinger's Cat!

I, for one, have no desire to hang around with "admirers." I'm sure they are perfectly lovely people, but they're just not my type.

Hugs,
Persephone.