I too now question the truthfulness of this whole story.
I too now question the truthfulness of this whole story.
I really don't see the point in debating the "honesty" of this scenario.
The points made about being honest/lying have been made countless times in other threads. No news there. It particularly makes no sense to attack the person. Who knows what this human beings problems might be? Listen; use kinds words; and/or go about your life. Live and let live. Nobody HAS to read or believe these posts.
If the OP is living this, imagining this, or, just baiting the forum, does it, as a story, really matter?
What seems to matter is that this approach - "Let's proceed as if..." - is workable and has been workable at times. In this case, he wants to try this and she wants to play along - both for their own reasons? Well, OK... Good luck then.
Both adults in this story would have to know "something is up." Nobody breaks up for 18 months and then gets back together again thinking, "Well, back to what was..."
IF people get back together, it's with the hope that things will be different. They usually aren't, and another break up follows not long after that...
Frankly, I can read the OP the first time and think, "Did she come back with a bun in the oven? Why get free then and go backwards now? And, as to him... Is he just stupid to make this pitch to a woman from a failed relationship who probably can't be trusted or counted on to carry the ball in the years ahead?
The primary problem with the entire post, of course, is the focus on CDing as the cure for everything. Or, acceptance as the cure for everything. That's the fantasy. CDing is just a thing, it's not everything. That it is "everything" in this series of posts reveals the weakness and stirs the disquiet in just about everyone. A life based ONLY on a foundation of "CD glue" is and always will be fantasy. An adventure? Fine. A life? No.
People are right to complain about the probability of this being true - to a point.
Good luck to the OP. If he and his wife want to live this life, they are obviously going to need all the luck they can get.
But, better lucky than good, sometimes....
LOL
I just saw this post for the first time today...what a bunch of BS!!!! this story just isnt true.
i think it matters because dishonesty is a big deal to our inclusive community...
in the OP's "story" our protagonist is manipulative and controlling...treats his wife like an idiot, and basically claims to rebuild his marraige on his terms based on his lies...
nice
i'm not a prude when it comes to lying...i think there really are unimportant white lies...but this one is anything but..
i think its an insult to wives that someone would claim to be telling such a grandoise lie and that their wife is stupid enough to believe it...and that folks here would jump up and say that its a good thing... i think being so dishonest is crossing a line that isnt good in any community.
we should have a story section for this stuff...
Vanessa - I really hope that your story is accurate, but the postings 48 and 49 are off by one day. If something seems to good to be true, then it is probably wrong. My decision to dress is a factor which is causing me to lose my marriage. I read the postings on this board and draw strength that there is a community of girls who will rally and give to support to a total stranger like me.
I do not post a lot, but when it does, it comes from the heart. The other girls express the same compassion. If your story is a fabrication or a wishful desire, please do not be the girl who cried "wolf" one time too many.
I hope this story is true as well, but I am skeptical. It's just too good. It sounds like a wonderful fantasy with the wife buying pantyhose all the time, etc.
If it is true I hope it continues this well...however you have to understand...ggs file these things away for later use a lot of times. I mean, if it was bad enough to split up before, then after the next fight she may just throw your clothes out in the street and scream, "see what this f****** made me endure...."
Originally Posted by SusanLeigh3454
I lost my marriage too.
I'm really surprised you didn't think to tell your wife that you needed to go on a 45 day cruise with her on a magic cruise ship in a buxom female body suit that then fuses with your soul and forces you to live the rest of your life in a sultan's harem...
ugh.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This sounds like a work of fiction. If in the event it isn't, you put a hell of a spin on some BS story that will eventually back fire. I hope, you have prepared your next move carefully. I know because, I lied in a similar manner to my partner, it all went up in flames.
When I came clean her heart was broken, an empty shell of shattered trust. This trust does not mend easily, so when I awoke to my TS status I approached things differently. I would like to say I did things right the second time around, coming out honestly.
You, have no idea the pain these lies cause our partner.It is worse than finding them finding out that we were unfaithful. The GG's here are right +97% of the time. If they feel your in the wrong I would reevaluate your position.
Good luck either way, I need to do laundry, and am currently standing on my soap.
I see the Truth Police are back out in force,The Day we have to justify our stories and our experiences,Is the day this forum will lose all Credibility in my eyes.Vanessa's story may be a strange one,but who Is to say with any Authority that it is a falsehood.We shouldn't judge,we are all here to share with each other,not to start doubting each others post's
just my
Sophie xx
We look to Scotland,for all our Ideas of Civilisation-Voltaire
========================================
A woman who loves to wear beautiful clothes is like a flower.
A man who loves to emulate these women is a special flower-a roseFacebook:Sophie Johnson
I fully agree we should not JUDGE afterall that is why this site was made for us girls who want to express their feelings and not be bombarded by negitive energyI see the Truth Police are back out in force,The Day we have to justify our stories and our experiences,Is the day this forum will lose all Credibility in my eyes.Vanessa's story may be a strange one,but who Is to say with any Authority that it is a falsehood.We shouldn't judge,we are all here to share with each other,not to start doubting each others post's
just my
Sophie xx
Brovo vanessa True/Not True
who cares it is an awesome story
We all want people to have an open mind with CD'ERS but HOW CAN THEY when even on here there is negitivity
Live life be happy and keep an open MIND
weather it be A MAN,WOMAN,CD,TS,TG
we're all part of one kind and race that human race
Don't turn your back on people because the person you might have turned your back on just might be a Judge,Dr,Lawyer,Firefighter,police officer and when you might need them they'll be there for YOU !!!!!!!!!
I know it would not make me feel very good if I turned my back on that person and their the person who could be saving your LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think about it
be kind to each other !!!!!!!!!!!!
Be real or fake
Just don't be fake with me
if you think its ok to be manipulative and dishonest with your spouse, or you think its ok to post made up stories to a community of supportive and helpful people, more power to ya..
i don't
To me and this just my opinion:
It is a very nice story true or not
It presents one possible way of introducing crossdressing
As for the past ,just let it be
we all have things we had just as forget
Jean Ann
I accept the story as truthful as long as I don't have any reason to think otherwise. I do believe that it is important for us to try to support and encourage others here> I do of course believe that out and out lies should not be tolerated, but I cant judge here and wont try.
Well,
Three pages of a story and support(good and bad) have brought me to the conclusion:
I feel that starting this whole ride out on manipulation was a bad choice.....I personally could not look my wife in the eyes after lying to her....
Be that as it may; the outcome has proved positive for vanessa...
There WILL come a time when you will have to pay penance for your lies, ALL of them....
What happens when a year or two later when your wife stumbles upon your postings and has concrete evidence of your deciet? Will you lie more? Will you come clean? Do you feel it would end your marriage...again?
I DO NOT SAY THESE THINGS TO ATTACK YOU.
I want to make sure you are looking further than the present, i truly feel you need to be honest with her now before BOTH of you invest more time and suffering into a doomed scenario
1 person + 1 person + commitment (+ deceit (-truth)) = Failure to trust indefinitely
my thoughts,
-Donni-
I dont know who this post was aimed at.but my comments were about judging whether a story was true or not.whether I agree or dont (in this case I dont) For the record I have NEVER advocated anyone telling lies or deceiving their Partners or SOs about their dressing or anything in their relationship
We look to Scotland,for all our Ideas of Civilisation-Voltaire
========================================
A woman who loves to wear beautiful clothes is like a flower.
A man who loves to emulate these women is a special flower-a rose
Okay, like others, I was only going to read some and not bother to post since it seemed all was resolved in the manner chosen.. but now it has taken such a turn that its in my nature to let my views be read... i didn't say accepted, agreed with or anything close.. just read.. and for that I thank you..
If the words in RED had not been posted as part of the reply, things would not have went in the various directions.. We all are open to giving or not giving our opinions.. and if you start a thread, then you agree to that.. most just say "thank you for your feedback"
Maybe if the thread had started out with "only positive feedback, please" then maybe you would have received pats on the back exclusively.
WE ALL have our opinions on relationships that are filled with deciet.. we can advise, but not comdemn.. some of us are guilty of stating: "live as I live my life", instead of just giving our thoughts and suggestions.
If a person wants to begin/have a relationship based on deciet and feels its a success as long as the cat is not ever let out of the bag...then so be it..
Some would welcome the person as a friend while others would turn and walk away..
That is what makes us humans and individuals.. okay..enough on the positive/negative responses..
Story true or not? Come on... if anyone here can prove it to be false.. state it with the proof? Being "similiar" to another is not proof..
If the poster makes a slip and it is discovered, then mods will deal with that as in the past..
The story is given with truths on the deciets.. so where is the untruthfullness of the story? Even though its sort of ironic..
Guess that is my two cents on theTruth Police idea..
I'm not a fan of deciet.. but another side says that if it works for them.. then good luck.. even if the deciet is discovered in the future.. I hope they remember these few months..
Thank you for taking the time to read my views..
Hugs,
Marissa
"You better look hard and look twice,
...is that me, baby or just a brilliant disguise?"- The Boss
Ok, waiting for the punch line.........................
Presh GG
Day 119 and I guess I'm not surprised by the reactions here. the fact is, my story is true, every printed word of it. I stopped reading responses, because they just make me want to fight back, and for what.It truly doesn't matter who believes or doesn't. I'm living this, and my life has never been better. Thought that would be inspirational for those like me, that could only wish...well, it happened for me, maybe in not the most graceful way, but it happened, and I'm greatful. I have a loving unique wife, and she not only accepts me this way, but encourages me. I couldn't be happier, and in taking her pulse, either could she. We were seperated, tried again, and then this. It changed me for the better, we have had 0 arguements in the 119 days, because my testosterone no longer gets in the way.
I'm new here and I'm sure not going to win any popularity contests with my opinion on this matter but I have to say, you're my hero!
You overcame socialization barriers, societal "norm" expectations and a fearful reaction from your wife in one fell swoop!
And I'm not just saying this because I would have done something similar.
I have no problem at all with what you did because I know why you did it. You, like a very good friend of mine, know your wife as well (or better, I would argue) than she knows herself.
This trait may be a TG phenomenon or something else....whatever it is, it's a good thing and it does NOT mean the woman is stupid or that you think she is.
What it means that she is the type of person who responds well to be handled with care and you understand that about her. And that you are a spouse capable of seeing what her real needs are.
Certainly, your moves were for your own benefit but for hers as well.
People look at "deception" and stop there. They think of all the negative things that have happened in their own lives and the people they've known and cannot get past that concept.
Deception is not the problem....motives are. The motives behind the actions. Actions can be bad in and of themselves (deception can certainly cause problems) but what's in the heart of the person is what must really be examined to discern their character. If you believe in God, you might want to hope that this is the way he looks at us.
Yes, Vanessa, you HEAVILY embellished your story (I almost fear your social engineering skills, lol) but there is also a lot of truth to what you told her. CD-ing is therapy for many people, it's a great stress reliever and no doubt that it affects hormones and other chemicals in a positive way. Sometimes we are our own best doctors.
If you had just opened your closet and thrown everything at her at once, she might have run and you might have risked losing her. The fight or flight reaction is very common.
I would even proffer that nearly ALL of us have some sort of skeletons in our closets that would make anybody run. Honesty just for the sake of honesty is not always logical.
If your better half can't handle the reality of you, they just can't handle it.
Understanding that is being realistic about them, it's a wise discernment.When you are already in a relationship with someone who doesn't know your habits, you may have to dress it up for them (as you've done) or reveal it to them in small doses over time as many do.
As for lying itself, I have had my fair share of being on the victim end. I've been in relationships with pathological liars (yes, it is a nightmare) but they weren't lying to make me feel better or trying to break some scary truth (that I couldn't handle) to me slowly.
Their deception was not for my benefit but simply a psychological problem that they had.
As long as you don't deceive her to cover up things that you would do to hurt her, I see nothing gravely wrong with what you've done.
Makeup and hairdo's are deceptive. It's used to entice and seduce (as well as confidence-boosting and covering up flaws). The person you wake up with does not look the same as the person you went to bed with, though.
That's accepted "deception" and it has a purpose (several in fact).
Motives are everything .
OK, here's where I play bad guy.......
I think you're going to run into problems soon but it does NOT have anything to do with deception.
You are in a honeymoon period. She is new to crossdressing and it's exciting for you and her both.
I have read the complaints in the GG section and frankly, I'd be scared out of my wits to marry a TG, although it's very attractive.
Everyone is different but some of the complaints from wives and girlfriends make it seem that this type of relationship can be a hell of a lot of work.
Not that other relationships aren't....I mean "more work", actually.
Eventually, when you start looking around at other women, admiring their clothes and the way they fit in them, what have you, your wife might feel like she's playing second fiddle to your interests, even if she is not really the jealous type, she's going to feel like a fifth wheel at some point, depending on several factors about your personality and your interest (which I shouldn't be assuming but it's a fair guess).
I won't give other examples but I'm just giving you a heads-up. The relationship is flying high right now but later on, there will probably be issues to deal with (problems with family/friends and/or covering up, etc).
Look for future problems and try to be prepared ahead of time how to deal with them. You may not have solicited my advice but it's good for any relationship.
Everyone goes through sparks and valleys and you have to keep your wits about you when you're in the valleys and feel like you're "not in love" anymore. But it's just a valley, not a loss of love.
I'm not telling anyone here what they don't already know.
And back to the deception issue, you will be telling her at some point what you did, at whatever pace you need to break it to her. She will most likely say that "she knew" (or suspected).
As long as she understands your motives and you are able to communicate them if she is not completely clear on them.
You are the man, Vanessa!
From wikpedia:
Deception is a major relational transgression that often leads to feelings of betrayal and distrust between relational partners. Deception violates relational rules and is considered to be a negative violation of expectations. Most people expect friends, relational partners, and even strangers to be truthful most of the time. If people expected most conversations to be untruthful, talking and communicating with others would require distraction and misdirection to acquire reliable information. On a given day, it is likely that most human beings will either deceive or be deceived by another person. A significant amount of deception occurs between romantic and relational partners.
Types:
Deception includes several types of communications or omissions that serve to distort or omit the complete truth. Deception itself is intentionally managing verbal and/or nonverbal messages so that the message receiver will believe in a way that the message sender knows is false. Intent is critical with regard to deception. Intent differentiates between deception and an honest mistake. The Interpersonal Deception Theory explores the interrelation between communicative context and sender and receiver cognitions and behaviors in deceptive exchanges.
The five primary forms of deception are:
1. lies: making up information or giving information that is the opposite or very different from the truth.
2. equivocations: making an indirect, ambiguous, or contradictory statement.
3. concealments: omitting information that is important or relevant to the given context, or engaging in behavior that helps hide relevant information.
4. exaggeration: overstatement or stretching the truth to a degree.
5. understatement: minimization or downplaying aspects of the truth.
Deception detection between relational partners is extremely difficult, unless a partner tells a blatant or obvious lie or contradicts something the other partner knows to be true. While it is difficult to deceive a partner over a long period of time, deception often occurs in day-to-day conversations between relational partners. Detecting deception is difficult because there are no known completely reliable indicators of deception. Deception, however, places a significant cognitive load on the deceiver. He or she must recall previous statements so that his or her story remains consistent and believable. As a result, deceivers often leak important information both verbally and nonverbally.
Deception and its detection is a complex, fluid, and cognitive process that is based on the context of the message exchange. The Interpersonal Deception Theory posits that interpersonal deception is a dynamic, iterative process of mutual influence between a sender, who manipulates information to depart from the truth, and a receiver, who attempts to establish the validity of the message. A deceiver's actions are interrelated to the message receiver's actions. It is during this exchange that the deceiver will reveal verbal and nonverbal information about deceit. Some research has found that there are some cues that may be correlated with deceptive communication, but scholars frequently disagree about the effectiveness of many of these cues to serve as reliable indicators. Noted deception scholar Aldert Vrij even states that is no nonverbal behavior that is uniquely associated with deception. As previously stated, a specific behavioral indicator of deception does not exist. There are, however, some nonverbal behaviors that have been found to be correlated with deception. Vrij found that examining a "cluster" of these cues was a significantly more reliable indicator of deception than examining a single cue.
In terms of perceptions about the significance of deceiving a partner, women and men typically differ in their beliefs about deception. Women view deception as a much more profound relational transgression than men. Additionally, women rate lying in general as a less acceptable behavior than men.
Finally, women are much more likely to view any act of lying as significant (regardless of the subject matter) and more likely to report negative emotional reactions to lying.
....Ahem....
-Donni-
"Well honey, I think the 50 pounds you gained since the pregnancy makes you look fat and ugly, and I find you to be somewhat physically repulsive...but only in the daylight. Much easier being intimate with you in the dark, since I can't see your rolls of fat".
To all of you who think "brutal honesty" is the best policy - enjoy being single. Forever.
**NOTE** Making a profound statement in three sentences is always prefferable to making the same statement in 30 sentences.
Last edited by Crysten; 07-18-2010 at 07:33 AM.
Crysten
"Addicted to Victoria's Secret".
LOL, I've been chided more than once by engineers and even a scientist for not summarizing my points. Sometimes things need detail, though.
(And amen on the brutal honesty....some people are even very sensitive to non-brutal honesty; sometimes it's hard to be yourself and yet still avoid stepping on toes!)
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
In response to this article, men are conditioned to stay silent or measure every word in order to avoid offending women/being taken the wrong way (yes, I'm generalizing...but I've seen it's true more often than not).
So deception is pretty much a necessary social interaction- male to female-.
It works in reverse, sometimes, too. Some males are easily offended and some react accordingly. The hot-headed males are generally much more physically dangerous than sensitive females, if you ask me. I'd rather females be the overly sensitive ones, if I had to pick. (and yes, I know the old saying about hell having no fury....)
Finally, women are much more likely to view any act of lying as significant (regardless of the subject matter) and more likely to report negative emotional reactions to lying.
....Ahem....
-Donni-[/QUOTE]
Well, a big part of that is probably the old fear of "what ELSE is he doing wrong? (like cheating or thinking about other women)". "What if I'm unable to detect when he does THAT to me?".
Women are very cerebral creatures. And a thinking mind can sometimes be very dangerous!
Men, as I mentioned before, are more acquainted with having to watch what they say to avoid offending. Or else stay silent.
So if a woman lies a little (depending on what it is, of course) that's not a foreign concept to men who are conditioned to do that on a daily basis.
Now if she's cheating, doing drugs, racking up tons of stuff on credit cards or a pathological liar, yeah, that's going to ruffle most guy's (anybody's) feathers! There are some things you don't lie about, no matter who you are or what the situation is.
But I still maintain that motives are everything. I think most women appreciate a man who doesn't tell them just how fat they look.
I also think women appreciate a man who knows them as well or better than they know themselves.
Just my opinion!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
so basically as long as your lying and deception is ok with you, then its ok to lie because your motives are good?
the person being lied to doesnt get to draw that line, the deceiver does...that's the problem...and if the person being lied to was ok with what you were doing, you wouldnt have to lie..
the old fear of what else is he lying about is a totally normal response to being lied to.
and please don't embarrass yourself and compare this to saying "you don't look fat" so your wife doesnt get mad
btw...i prefer being referred to as "bs detector" as opposed to "truth police"
Please explain to me - who's getting hurt in this scenario? At least, the scenario as explained to us. So far as I can see, nobody. Aparently they had already split twice......and now they're happy as two pigs in a poke - so to speak. "Hey honey I really want to tell you everything that went on in the past, that really has no bearing on us now and really had nothing to do with you then..." ---- Ever watch the "Bad Idea" sketch on SNL?? Same exact thing. Nobody gains a thing, unless you're a masochist. "All in the name of complete honesty even at the cost of relationships, friendships, and everything else no matter what price we have to pay" -- really? Welcome to the 21st century, total honesty is nice, but rarely seen, and for good reason. It hurts too much, and doesn't really accomplish a whole lot. Except, perhaps, to make you feel self righteous. Good luck with that, hope you enjoy the view from your high horse...but it's gonna be lonely up there, no doubt.so basically as long as your lying and deception is ok with you, then its ok to lie because your motives are good?
the person being lied to doesnt get to draw that line, the deceiver does...that's the problem...and if the person being lied to was ok with what you were doing, you wouldnt have to lie..
the old fear of what else is he lying about is a totally normal response to being lied to.
and please don't embarrass yourself and compare this to saying "you don't look fat" so your wife doesnt get mad
btw...i prefer being referred to as "bs detector" as opposed to "truth police"
Last edited by Crysten; 07-18-2010 at 06:42 PM.
Crysten
"Addicted to Victoria's Secret".
I believe you just embarrassed youself by taking a basic point I was trying to make and reading it literally. For shame!!
Ever try to navigate through years of marriage? Well, I have. Have I been honest with my wife? I'd say yes, 90+ percent. The other ten percent? Basically that's the not calling her a crazy b&*@h to her face when she was acting that way, or keeping my mouth shut when I knew I couldn't reason with her. Simple as that. Not saying what we really think at the right time is a godsend, and is a KEY FACTOR in every...single....marriage in existance.
Crysten
"Addicted to Victoria's Secret".
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