Gee. What a shame to see this on Yahoo! Personals.

[Amanda Jane]

does this really happen so often that it needs to be on a list?

yes.

[Lisa Maren]

It is interesting that CDs are mentioned at all. Things that are really taboo are not mentioned at all, so we might interpret that as some progress, even if it didn't exactly hit the mark.

As for the rest of the advice, yes, it's good advice (even if a ten-year-old could tell you as much lol). Thinking that #3 is problematic doesn't have any bearing on what one thinks of the rest of it.

I agree they could have at least said "if your'e into that", but I would prefer to have seen a couple more sentences, something like:

"...three times and they're probably CDers, so be advised that there is truth to that. We're not saying that crossdressers are freaks. We just mean that if you're not into that, then this is a red flag for you in the way that if you're a gal with a scientific mind, then it's probably a red flag if he takes you to the local poetry slam followed by drinks at a Po-Mo bar -- or a poetry slam at a Po-Mo bar. If you are into crossdressers, however, then more power to you."

I don't have any problem with them giving the advice that a man might be a crossdresser if he likes his female date's clothes a lot. Frankly, he probably is. I've only been en femme once for Halloween and I may be TS. The only problem is when they say things like "run, don't walk" rather than more respectful, neutral things like "might not be your cup of tea".

Hugs,
Lisa

[cdjenny]

how do you contact yahoo? we need to send them a online complaint..and ask for a appoligy...lets do it girls

if nothing else it will let them know we want stand for it

ps they are right to some degree...ge is not the one for me..but my wife is

[Rita Knight]

Hi Everyone,
I know this maybe tangential to this subject. All these online personals services are in the business to make money. They write these things in essence to get people to use their service. What no one seems to really explore is that a lot of people, including myself, have given up on the dating scene. The New York Times article article this week about 51% of American women are living without a spouse covered a lot of this area but nowhere near all of it. Does anyone know where to get more information about this subject? Incidentally, I was married and am divorced. I tried dating after the divorce and had little success. At that point I thought I might get "burnt" again and gave up.

[darling_felicity]

Don't waste a second over trash like this. It's written for one of two reasons. One, the person needs to make a buck and will say anything, two, they are infernally jealous of what we are and what we have.

Luv and pride, Felicity

[MsJanessa]

It's one of those so-called advice columns found in third rate "womens" magazines-----real GGs who are self confident, intelligent, and sexy don't usually take those things seriously---really ment for stay at home, bon bon eating, homely wannebes whose only romantic life is in their daydreams.

[crossing-the-rain]

Surprise ? No !
Angry ? No !
Shock ? No !
Feeling ? No !

Rain.

[Tracy_Victoria]

how do you contact yahoo? we need to send them a online complaint..and ask for a appoligy...lets do it girls

if nothing else it will let them know we want stand for it

ps they are right to some degree...ge is not the one for me..but my wife is

Judy Bolton and Wendy Bolton Floyd are sisters and co-authors of the upcoming book “When Did You Know… He Was Not The One?” (in stores Feb. 2007). Wendy, a professional writer, is a graduate of the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) and of City University of New York, Queens College. Judy is a Columbia University graduate, with a background in clinical psychotherapy and she has provided counseling for over 25 years. Her specialty is in family and marital issues. Both sisters have been on numerous television and radio programs including; CBS News, Montel Williams, and Newsday. Their website is whendidyouknow.org/

go give em Hell!!!

[Stacy GG]

Whoa! Run, don't walk away from a CDer! Are we that bad? Don't we have any redeeming qualities? What do our resident GG's think about that advice column?

I think alot of the column s common sense..if the guy abuses you leave. yes, i do think the CD comment was to just get people to keep reading. Though I read the website and it seems Judy is a divorcee..and when they started the book was newly divorced, so she might be a tad bitter.
Though truthfully if a guy owns weapons, it dos not mean they have a small penis or that he's an abuser. Hemight just like antique or exotic weapons...
I think in all the column should be taken with a grain of salt, and I just hope not too many people take it as real advice. I've read alot of things that say "real men don't crossdress" , I think it's a bunch of BS and I'm not going to be running for the hills because elly prefers womens clothes over mens! love:

[Kimberley]

Ignorance is bliss. Wingnuts!!!

The real problem is not their opinions, it is that thousands of people are influenced by them. Sad sad sad.


Kimberley

[TV Wannabe]

whats the deal with brass knuckles, I own a set, it doesn't mean im going to be an abusive boyfriend.

[Kimberley]

...I just hope not too many people take it as real advice. I've read alot of things that say "real men don't crossdress" , I think it's a bunch of BS and I'm not going to be running for the hills because elly prefers womens clothes over mens! love:

***********
and real men dont eat Quiche or drink white wine.....

Stacy, you are a gem!! Thanks.


Kimberley

[Marcie Sexton]

perhaps we need to encourage a boycott and flood their site with complaints...

when do we know some one is eat up with dumb ass, when some one write an article like that and someo one buys it !!!

I'm sure there are people who would buy my beach front property in Alaska where the palms wave gently in the tropical breeze

[Miss Terr]

Irresponsible. I think alot of that was attempted humor.
I think Bi-sexuality would cause a GG to pull the plug.

they never mentioned:
Borrowing money/poor financial managment.
Compulsive gambling.
Chronically Unemployed.
Thief/criminal.
Liar.
Cruel to animals.
Sociopathic.
User.
Arguementative.



so on.....But thats just my opinion--there are many women (and men) who love people with one or more (or all), of the above characteristics; and if its OK with them I am happy for them.

Until next time....

[Country girl]

Whoa! Run, don't walk away from a CDer! Are we that bad? Don't we have any redeeming qualities? What do our resident GG's think about that advice column?

I personally believe that a man who CD's is a better lover, husband,father, etc. It definately makes you more sensitive to a GG woman's feelings. I LOVE a man who is a CDer!!!! That's my opinion!!!!
CG gg

[kerrianna]

The internet has made 'experts' of us all. I'm one here.

I wouldn't even connect to the internet if I had to pay attention to all the crap: bigotry, ignorance, hatred, sleaze, shameless self-promotion, money-grubbing, scamming, malicious intent....I chose to ignore all that just like I ignore most of advertising and propaganda in other media forms. The internet is like the wild wild west. It's not for the faint of heart and anyone who believes what they read (including some of my posts , [SIZE="2"]I'm kidding I try to be ethical[/SIZE] ) gets what they get.

This particular 'advice' is just a moneymaking scheme by a couple of self-appointed experts. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to 'educate' these people, but I wouldn't say to anyone don't try. You never know, maybe you can make them think twice. They probably thought they were being 'pithy'.

[goofus]

I personally believe that a man who CD's is a better lover, husband,father, etc. It definately makes you more sensitive to a GG woman's feelings. I LOVE a man who is a CDer!!!! That's my opinion!!!!
CG gg

Are you interested in being cloned?

[Amanda Jane]

Some of the replies sounded harsh, and uninformed.

So I checked out the two women who wrote the deal, and found they are basicaly a summery of interviews they did for the book

the basic signs they warn women againt do not include CD but rather are

Controlling Behaviors
Physical restraint
Asking or demanding that you give up essentials
Presenting you with large gifts early in the relationship
Attempts to isolate you from family and/or friends
Equating total submission with total love

Abusive Behaviors
Physically hurting you
Putting you down in front of others
Derogatory comments about you
Making you feel like you are crazy
Purposely making you feel helpless
Playing mind games

Substance Abuse
Smells like liquor, drugs or tobacco
Shows emotional extremes
Unaccountable for their whereabouts
Your money is unaccountable

Signs of Cheating
Secretive and defensive
Sly, manipulative behavior
Does not let you call him at home
Has a white ring around his ring finger
Projectile behavior
He does not want to spend time with your friends or family
Unavailable on important holidays
Only available at strange times of the day

Lack of Compassion
Lack of concern for your physical and/or emotional well-being
Lack of common courtesy
Using empathy as means to get something from you (mainly sex)
Self-centered behaviors
Being unsupportive


Judy is a Columbia University graduate, with a background in clinical psychotherapy and she has provided counseling for over 25 years. Her specialty is in family and marital issues and she puts her skills to use in this book by using her clinical expertise, in addition to her warm demeanor to provide a safe and reassuring environment to the participants.

The stories come from women across the United States. According to their site.

When Did You Know… He Was Not The One? is a collection of short stories told by women who we found to be warm, bright, and extremely intuitive. The stories are reflective of our current times and the voices of the women are engaging and empowering. Their stories range from being comical, to being poignant or touching on extremely serious issues, such as physical, verbal or sexual abuse.

Very early on we understood the need to conduct the interviews in a non-judgmental or analytical way and therefore, When Did You Know… He Was Not The One? is not a self-help book; rather it is a collection of stories from women who have “been there” and “done that”. These women have survived their experiences and are willing to share. Many have become more successful as a result of their experiences. However, some are still stuck and will probably repeat many of these types of negative relationships again and again.

In order to ensure that the stories were broadly reflective we contacted such organizations as Parents Without Partners, Visions Anew, The National Association of Female Executives (NAFE), Business Networking Group of Long Island, The Girl Scouts Association of the USA , The Fashion Group Inc., Women Business Owners Network, and National Association of Women Business Owners. As a result of these contacts, we have interviewed over 96 women across the country.

dismiss it if you will, but know what you are dismissing

[RobynP]

Overall, I think this is a fairly well balanced article. It is imperative that CDer's tell the people they are dating by the second or third date (or earlier) about their crossdressing. There should be no need to keep it a secret. Not disclosing it before marriage is an extremely controllng behavior.

Besides #3, there are many other points mentioned in the article that have been discussed frequently on this board:

#1 Not High on Life -- How many of us are "high" on crossdressing?? "If the man you are dating or married to needs an extra boost to get through the day (other than simply having you in his life) then your relationship is in jeopardy. Alcohol and substance abuse (substitue crossdressing here) will always be more important to him than you are, so step aside..." How many of us would admit that their crossdressing is more important than their partner?

#6 Sexually Preoccupied -- Some of us find crossdressing very sexual and some of us do not. "...finding out your partner is getting all hot and bothered ... (insert "about crossdressing" here"), are real red flags that he’s more interested in “me” than “thee.” Ask him about it and decide if you really want someone (or something) else turning on your man."


#7 Adores Material Things -- How excited do we get when we get a new dress or a new wig? "All women feel great when a sophisticated man wants to be with them, but if he spends more time in front of the mirror than you do, spends more money on his clothing and is more interested in what he has in his possession than what he has in you..." How much time do we spend in front of mirrors? How much do we spend on clothing? Personally, I took a look at how much I spent on crossdressing and how much I spent dating over the past several years... and I've spent more on crossdressing but not too much more... but it really surprised me...

#8 Has Bad Juju -- "A dark history or secret life can easily be hidden by a charming personality and a smile. " How many of us DON'T have a secret life? Sure, there are some of us who are very open and very much out and about 24/7. But for the most part our crossdressing is a deeply held secret.

I do think that many of us also have charming personalities! There are many good things about having a crossdresser for a spouse.

However, we should be aware of the negative behaviors that can also be part of crossdressing that we may have and work on getting rid of them.


--Robyn P.

[Amanda Jane]

"I do think that many of us also have charming personalities!" True, but there is a lot of deeply rooted sickness that shows up in the lying, hiding and the double lives that many live. To the degree that the girls were worried about getting involved with someone like that, then I think they were spot on.

So I do think that you are right on in the above reflections. There are a lot of things I read in here that make me cringe, and others that make me aware that no matter what it cost to be out, what I lost by doing it, was nothing compaired to what you have to drag around if you don't. And, what you lose by not being open, is far more than you gain in the end I think.

Thanks, I would rather have a bunch of girls I'm close to, that accept me as one of them and not have sex, then to get the sex by not telling the whole truth. Like they point out, CDs might make good gal-pals, but often they make poor mates.

[kerrianna]

"
Like they point out, CDs might make good gal-pals, but often they make poor mates.

Lots of people make poor mates, for lots of different reasons. There are a number of CDs on this site whose partners will tell you they make wonderful mates.

I really resent the way generalisations are thrown out there as if they were truth. While I like to think most people are capable of making up their own minds I know lots of people are easily influenced and will base their actions not on their own experience but on what they've been told. I find that sad. They cut themselves out of experiences and sometimes add to the bigotry and misconceptions that already exist.

I stand by what I earlier said, although I was too harsh on the authors without looking into it. What was posted on the Yahoo page (while maybe just a condensed version of what the authors have written or gathered) seemed flippant and simple minded. As anyone who has spent some time on this forum can attest to, there are many different and complex aspects to not only CDng but to maintaining a relationship, with or without CDng. To reduce relationship advice to point form is limiting and easily misconstrued.

What you describe in the book itself, Amanda, I can see as being useful information. What I was trying to say at the top of this post is that people who will exhibit controlling behaviour, be abusive, cheat, lie, struggle with addiction - will do so with other things besides CDng. Being a crossdresser does NOT make a person bad relationship material in and of itself. Obviously gender confused people may impact a relationship more radically, but NOT all crossdressers have gender issues. And if they do, it doesn't necessarily make them any worse mates than anyone else.

[LindaMarie]

Angel,

You and several other posters have hit the nail on the head. The yahoo writer is writing for entertainment and the advice is very stereotypical. I'm guessing they haven't done extensive studies in how to find a compatible mate.

The other side of this is: would you want to date someone who used this checklist at all seriously?

Well, you know.... what do you expect from a Yahoo dating page? It seems, to me, like a (slightly) older girls version of what you get in those lame sugar filled teenage magazines. It's all about following the flock...like moronic mindless sheep. All they said in this article was stereotypical trite for the single girl. Half the things were so obvious (don't date an alcoholic or a drug addict) and the other half were just what you are "supposed to do" to be "normal"....whatever normal is.

[Amanda Jane]

"Being a crossdresser does NOT make a person bad relationship material in and of itself." - no, but not telling the truth DOES. Women, and this was written by women, about women, and for women, place a much higher value on honesty than a lot of men do. Moreover, women often think of the ommision as just another way to lie, while men often consider it clever.

There are a number of posts about CDs who "borrow" or just "try on" other women's clothes without permission. Often the case is that they are very intimate items, and though unsaid, with the imagined outcome. I don't know any woman who would want to be married to someone who that had to worry about that with.

Moreover, despite all the jive talk around the subject there is a very high sexual component to this. Happy will the couple be whose sexual perversions, proclivities, fetishes, and kinks match up and complement each other. Doomed is the relationship where they do not.

[Sarah Rabbit]

the "twits" you refer to are in fact people who know more about men than men do. We call them 'women."

?

What, are they friends of yours?

Sarah R.

[Kimberley]

Oddly enough they dont seem to mention that some women can fall into the same behaviours in dealing with men. It is a 2 way street but for some reason the men are ALWAYS the heavies.