Ask a GG - Part Two

[faltenrock]

Hi GG's. I've a question for you.
First I want to thank all of you that you're here on this forum with help, understanding, support and your openesss.

I'm from Germany, this week will be very hot and I have to travel for some business and as usually use the time in between for my dressing and going out.
I feel most comfortable wearing a hose with my dresses and skirts. I received many compiments for my legs in the past. However I do have hair on my legs, they are not very many and pretty thin and light color. Whenever I go out, I shave only the area around my knees and above.
I shorten and thin out the hairs downwards the knees to have them much less visible.

I'm married and my wife knows all about my dressing and is tolerating - not really happy with it, I don't blame her.

Now, what would you recommend doing with my legs when it will be in the 90's this week. A pantyhose will be pretty hot, as my wig. Should I just not worry about the hairs on my legs and walk with confidence, shave more or wear a hose??

I've done that before, actually last year in London during a trip. I was with bare legs for about three hours when I finally put on my hose, mostly because it got a little colder.

Thank you soo much

Kind regards

Doreen

[Di]

Doreen,
Hello my take on it would be just to shave your legs unless you have compromised with your wife not to. It’s hot here in Texas a lot more than I’m used to in Canada and I find I never wear panty hose here.
I’m very fair so I put on some self tan lotion .
If you can’t completely shave .....just own it and not worry.
I enjoy checking out all your fun adventures!

[char GG]

Hi Doreen,
I agree with Di. I don't wear hose in the summer. If your wife is agreeable, and you don't like the feeling of your legs encased like sausages, just go with bare legs.

As for a wig, my SO has a wig that is called "mesh cap, hand tied", that has a lot more air that flows through it. He loves it in the summer.

Have fun on your adventures. (We are still waiting for the temperatures to even reach 80 in Michigan).

[Kelli_cd]

This could go in Tips to an SOs Acceptance as well as here, I guess.
I got careless tonight. And now I'm not in the closet any more, but I may well be in the doghouse.
I changed clothes after work and picked out my bra and panties for tomorrow. And proceeded to leave them out on the bathroom counter. My wife brought them down to me and asked, What's this? I said, It's mine. "Are you a crossdresser?" I weakly answered, "kind of, sort of." Shame on me for not owning and saying, Yes.
She replied, Well, that's better than an affair, and went back upstairs.
So, I know the talk and questions are coming. I've spent a lot of time thinking of what I would say, not expecting I would ever need to, though. I know she's going to feel betrayed by my dishonesty, and feel hurt, and I don't know what else?
I know I need to be just as open and honest as I can when the questions come, and I intend to be open and answer everything.
I guess I'm wondering what questions will she ask that I haven't thought of and anticipate?
I don't feel relieved yet, that she knows, but I hope that comes to me.
GG's, please pass along words of advice, if you have any.

[MoGG]

Hi Kelli,

This is going to depend on your particular relationship dynamics, but unless you are extremely open I think an important thing to remember is it might take her a while to lead up to the really difficult questions, if they are ever stated outright.

You might expect questions about how and why you cross dress, where you cross dress, your orientation ( yes, most cross dressers are straight but if you are researching online you won’t get that impression), what else have you been hiding from her, maybe some broader stuff about gender.

The big questions, that never might get said outright, are usually do you really love and want me? Do I still love and want you? I’m not talking about questioning your sexual orientation here, although she might, but wondering whether your erotic focus is on her at all, how separate your erotic and romantic life is from the one she thought she shared with you, whether she herself still finds you attractive. It doesn’t usually break up a long term relationship but she might take a while to work out how she feels

Be prepared for questions that don’t come as questions. Eg. Women who state they are upset that their husband looks hotter than them in a dress or “my clothes suit you better than me” are usually looking for reassurance that you still find them attractive - I don’t want to assume you would, but a lot of people seem to take that as the straight-forward compliment that it isn’t.

You seem to be going into this with a good spirit and you know she wasn’t immediately horrified or hostile. Best wishes for you both!

[ReineD]

I guess I'm wondering what questions will she ask that I haven't thought of and anticipate?

Judging by posts from other CDers who have told their wives, some common questions are:

Do you dress this way because you are gay or are attracted to men?
Do you want to be a woman?
How long have you been doing this?
How far do you see this going?
How often do you dress or want to dress?
Am I enough for you?

But, we don't know your wife nor have we any idea of the quality of your relationship. We cannot anticipate all her questions or concerns. So as you said, just be honest.

Also, don't minimize or downplay what you do or what you want to do. Nothing is worse for a wife than her husband telling her that he only likes to wear underwear occasionally, but then he slowly ramps it up to wigs/makeup/breast forms/hip pads/body shaving/pierced ears/growing finger nails/wanting to go out fully dressed/wanting to dress more often/wanting lots more clothes/etc/etc/etc. Ask yourself what you would like to do crossdressed in an ideal world, what clothes you would like to own or what look you would like to achieve, and be honest with your wife about this - even if you're not there yet.

EDIT
One more thing. What upset me the most was not how my SO looked while dressed compared to me, but once the floodgates opened and it seemed that my SO thought of little other than wanting to achieve a certain look, and all the purchases began to arrive at the door, I felt truly left out. I had been accustomed to being the object of desire in my prior, long-term, hetero relationship. And then all of a sudden, it seemed as if my SO's own appearance was a bigger object of desire to him than I was. When he saw pretty things in a store or online, he wanted them for himself more than he wanted to see me in them. So I competed for his attention. I bought clothes for myself that I thought he would find sexy. I tried to compete with women who were half my age (my SO was attracted to the young, beautiful woman look). This went on for years until I hit bottom with it. I realized eventually that I really had nothing to do with what or whom my SO was attracted to. And then I was happy with who I was once more. :)

[char GG]

Originally Posted by Kelli_cd

I weakly answered, "kind of, sort of." Shame on me for not owning and saying, Yes.
She replied, Well, that's better than an affair, and went back upstairs.

Hi Kelli,
This was the perfect opening for you to come clean. I would suggest not clamming up now and waiting for her to ask questions. Take the lead and tell her what is going on. What she can imagine may be much worse than what is really happening. Reine and Mo gave you some great suggestions to start a conversation with.

[Di]

The lady’s have already answered pretty much what I would have.
But just to add please be open and honest when she brings it up again or asks questions.
If she asks something you do not know the answer to SAY THAT.
Don’t act like it’s only panties or whatever unless it is. Be real be honest. Because if you think that is easier now trust me in the long run it will not be.

[confused_cathreen]

Also, don't minimize or downplay what you do or what you want to do. Nothing is worse for a wife than her husband telling her that he only likes to wear underwear occasionally, but then he slowly ramps it up to wigs/makeup/breast forms/hip pads/body shaving/pierced ears/growing finger nails/wanting to go out fully dressed/wanting to dress more often/wanting lots more clothes/etc/etc/etc. Ask yourself what you would like to do crossdressed in an ideal world, what clothes you would like to own or what look you would like to achieve, and be honest with your wife about this - even if you're not there yet.


A hundred times this. Whatever her questions, and all the ones that the ladies asked, I asked. But the above quote is THE most important one. It is not her responsibility to know where you are going with this. It is yours. Opening up the CDing conversation isn't her responsibility either. Yours, as well. So now, it's up to you to take control and have an adult conversation about this. Make sure you know who and what you are and approach her. Even though you should have done this from the beginning, it's not too late to fix it. Honesty and openess above everything else. Good luck.

[Robbiegirl]

Ladies i n your great responses to Kelli Cd I was surprised none of you asked what the panty and bra set looked like.

I the style was the same as the wifes or if it wasn't too girly might that change the reaction ?

[char GG]

Hi Robbiegirl,
I don't think it mattered what the bra and panties looked like. The point was that they were her "husband's" underwear. No, I don't think it the looks of it would have changed the wife's reaction.

[MoGG]

Hi Robbiegirl,

In most cases I would agree with Char on this.

However.. My husband always told me he preferred me in very plain underwear, black only, and wasn’t into lingerie. I don’t like lace and frills myself, but he was always a bit disparaging about my favourite coloured or patterned sets. So when I found his underwear set and other CD clothing ( in a situation very close to what Kelli described ) I was extremely surprised to find it was pink and uberfemme and covered with ruffles and hearts. I felt very hurt that he was either lying to me about what he did like, or ( as I imagined to myself) he didn’t think I was good enough for what he liked.

I’m sorry to say I’m still a long way from the state of acceptance that Raine describes, although I’m trying to get there. As a reasonably conventionally attractive woman I had always assumed I was desirable to my husband - after all he married me and we have a child. I can occasionally get into bitter moods where I think, if he is primarily attracted to himself - what does he think I am in this relationship? The domestic help? A frump to make him look good? I know this is a really unhealthy way to think, but yes, this is the kind of negative spiral relationships can get into if the communication is bad.

When I finally asked my husband why it became clear that he was just trying to conceal any signs he was into cross dressing, and he thought liking frou-frou lingerie might give him away somehow . Also, he correctly judged that I would find his taste in female clothing hideous. We can even joke about it a little. Ultimately, the style of his knickers IS irrelevant, it’s the communication that’s the problem.

[confused_cathreen]

Hi Robbie,
No.

[ReineD]

Ladies i n your great responses to Kelli Cd I was surprised none of you asked what the panty and bra set looked like. That's because it doesn't matter and we don't care.



I the style was the same as the wifes or if it wasn't too girly might that change the reaction ?
It really doesn't matter whether the style was the same as the wife's or if it was too girly or not. Bras are bras and panties are panties ... unless, as MoGG writes, the husband has jealousy issues and prefers to see his wife in "less girly" things so that he can feel "more feminine" by comparison.

Earlier I said there was nothing worse than husbands ramping it up slowly after the original disclosure, rather than tell the truth from the onset. But I think there is one thing worse - husbands who want their wives to be less "feminine" than they are so they can feel better about themselves dressed. These husbands don't realize that clothing or underwear styles have nothing to do with any woman's inherent femininity, which resides in her sex and physical attributes and not in what comes off in the bedroom.

Very early in my relationship with my SO, I dressed down when we went out (slacks and plain shirts) to help my SO look less "manly" in comparison to me, so as not to be read. But, when I got into wanting to compete with the young beautiful women that I later on perceived my SO was more attracted to rather than me (he kept ignoring me while staring at attractive women when we went out), I began to dress up so he would focus on me more. The first time I wore a cami under a lace blouse, my SO remarked "Wow, you're sexier than I am". Nothing was more devastating to me than that comment. First, I never saw us as being in competition with one another. Can you imagine competing with your lover to see who is most sexy? Second, it reinforced the idea that he was more the object of his own desire than I was. And I wanted him to want me more than anything else, just as I wanted him more than anything else.

In MoGG's case, her husband simply didn't want her to know that his tastes were over-the-top, Shirley Temple girly. That's different, but still it hints at CDing as some sort of fetish vs any form of gender identity. And few GGs can compete with their husbands' fetishes when it comes to being their husbands' primary sexual desires.

And this brings up the important question that many wives ask. "Am I enough for you", or "Am I the primary focus of your sexual desire".

[kimdl93]

In a follow up to Reine’s last observation...and the implications of dressing as a sexually expression vs an expression of gender identity was meaningful for me. While I do like to dress nicely, attractive even, I’m motivated to blend in, and yes, I am transgender. For my ex at least, dressing as a non-sexual expression was more disturbing and difficult to accept than if it was ‘just a sexual kink’.

isnt this something of a catch 22 in terms of relationships?

[Wifeling GG]

Robbiegirl I find it absolutely shocking that you have reached your age and yet know so little about the gender you aspire to emulate! At what point would that actually become an important factor? "Oooh, sorry love- I didn't realise what a lovely Cami and tap pant set you've got there. Of course that changes everything, dearest!'

As if, mate.

Women don't think like that and truth be told neither do men.

Do you think you have helped Kelli one bit?

Kelli_cd, stop holding your breath and be proactive rather than reactive. You start the conversation. Be gentle with both of you. It sounds like she has had her suspicions confirmed which could work in your favour in that the thing she feared the most, an affair, has been thrown out of the window. She may now be more amenable to an open discussion.

Hugs,

L

[ReineD]

For my ex at least, dressing as a non-sexual expression was more disturbing and difficult to accept than if it was ‘just a sexual kink’.

isnt this something of a catch 22 in terms of relationships?

It depends on how you look at gender identity.

I've come to believe over the years that the only real differences between men and women reside in their physical attributes - their bodies, and what their bodies can and cannot do. The gender barriers between everything else are nearly shattered! Men and women experience the same emotions, have the same jobs, make the same financial decisions, share the same household and yard work (save for chores that a man's physical strength is more adept at tackling than a woman's physical strength), maintain the same cars, care for their same children, enjoy the same pastimes, play the same sports. There are lots of single moms and single dads who take on all the roles of both parents!

And so if a crossdresser or a transgender has no desire to change his body either through the use of hormones or surgeries, what does "gender identity" really mean. Both the crossdresser and the transgender will wear makeup, female clothing, breast forms, etc, but all these things come off in the bedroom when they have sex with their wives, with the understanding they still enjoy using their male sexual organs. And if the wife appreciates that her husband is into her, again what does it matter whether anyone identifies more or less feminine, or more or less masculine. Our world is filled with non-CD/TG men who run the gamut from seriously macho to not-macho at all (not into sports, not into cars, or not into whatever the stereotypical macho male reportedly is into). And our world is filled with non-TG women who run the gamut from seriously girly to not girly at all (can take or leave makeup, wears comfortable clothes, prefers comfortable shoes over heels, enjoys easy-care hair cuts, is not into things the stereotypical girly-girl is reportedly into).

On the other hand, if a transsexual MtF wishes to transition her body to the female form, then I can see where a sexual incompatibility would arise between the MtF and her wife, who if she is hetero, might prefer a sexual relationship with a person who has male parts. But, this is a different conversation. I don't think this applies to Kelli_cd, who began this Q&A session.

So now we come to dressing as a sexual kink. If they both equally get off on the kinkiness, there is no problem. Or if they don't equally get off on it but instead decide to take turns in the bedroom doing it his way sometimes and her way sometimes, there is no problem. The only time there is an issue is if the husband gets off on being a girl consistently more than he gets off on his wife ... and his wife knows it and feels it. They have developed a sexual incompatibility. The wife wants the husband, but instead of the husband equally wanting the wife, he wants the wife to want his femme alter-ego. Or, if the husband is more jealous of his wife's femininity (by this I mean her female attributes) than appreciative of her (as a hetero non-CDer appreciates a woman), this also creates an incompatibility for a wife who, being hetero, wants to be appreciated as the woman in her hetero relationship with her husband. Yin and Yang. Not Yin and Yin. A wife wants to be the primary focus of her husband's sexual desire, just as he is the primary focus of hers.

I hope this makes sense. Maybe the GGs in this forum will understand what I'm trying to say more than some CDs or TGs?

[char GG]

Yes Reine, it makes absolute sense to me. You said it very eloquently! A woman does not want to appear or truly be in competition with a man who wants to be the woman. Some women can't get past that feeling that the CDer thinks of himself as more of a woman than she is. Definitely incompatibility there.

[kimdl93]

Yes Reine, it makes absolute sense to me. You said it very eloquently! A woman does not want to appear or truly be in competition with a man who wants to be the woman. Some women can't get past that feeling that the CDer thinks of himself as more of a woman than she is. Definitely incompatibility there.

So, is it the insecurities of the GG being projected onto the the TG person? (Speaking only for myself, I’ve never remotely considered myself nor professed to be more of a woman, or even a woman. If that was an inference taken, it’s unfortunate for her and unfair to me.)

[ReineD]

So, is it the insecurities of the GG being projected onto the the TG person?

I don't think a wife is insecure when she wants her desire for her husband to be equally reciprocated. If it isn't, she might do what I did in my early years with my SO. I competed with the CDing for his attention. I was not competing with my SO to see which one of us was the prettiest or sexiest, I just wanted my SO to want me as much as I wanted my SO. And so I dressed in ways that I thought would attract him more than the CDing did. It turned out I attracted everyone else except my SO, which was not what I was after. lol. My SO for some years really was into the CDing more than anything else.

But this is all water under the bridge now. We've worked it all out and are very happy.

[MoGG]

Reine, thank you so much. You’ve clarified my very muddled thoughts here and yes, that is exactly the issue I’m grappling with. Thatyou and your SO were able to get past this is giving me lots of hope.

@kimdl93. No, I don’t think it’s my insecurity ( or at least all my insecurity). I’ve had girlfriends ( all GG ) before my marriage, and the idea that we would be in competition or that only one of us could be the sexy or feminine one is just not anything like how the relationship worked, it never even occurred to me. We fancied each other, that’s why we were together. If my husband was transgender this would be much easier for me ( though obviously not for a straight woman ). Instead I feel increasingly irrelevant to his sex life and undesired, and I am sure he would like more validation and admiration for him in his feminine presentation than I can honestly give. I desire him as a man, I believe I would desire a woman who was his female equivalent, but his version of femininity instead feels quite male-gaze-centred and alienating to me which in turn is disappointing for him. I don’t think it’s either of our fault.

Also, my response to robbiegirl was actually meant to help kelli and others know the kind of thoughts, including insecurities, that can churn around in a partner’s head. It was meant to be about my emotions, and I realise I was wrong to actually describe any underwear. I get how it might have been misconstrued and I’m sorry, but please don’t anyone else PM me for underwear stories, it’s not something I’m into.

[ReineD]

Reine, thank you so much. You’ve clarified my very muddled thoughts here and yes, that is exactly the issue I’m grappling with.

:hugs:
..........

[kimdl93]

Writing as a transgender person (apply whatever definition you wish): is it then fair to say that a normal cis-gender female will be highly unlikely to find a MTF transgender person ...whether part time or full-time as an acceptable companion? From the discussion i have read below, that seems very much the case.

[KayC]

Don't wear blue eyeshadow.


I DO wear light blue eyeshadow, it counteracts the redness from my allergies. ;) Agree that less is better!

[ReineD]

Writing as a transgender person (apply whatever definition you wish): is it then fair to say that a normal cis-gender female will be highly unlikely to find a MTF transgender person ...whether part time or full-time as an acceptable companion?

Kim, it is not unlikely. My SO is extremely acceptable to me. :)

But, it is difficult when there are sexual incompatibilities in the relationship. This applies even in relationships where the husband is not a CD or TG. If a third element is introduced that only one of the partners desires or wants, then the couple are not fully sexually compatible. The third element could be a desire for someone else more than the wife, a sexual kink, or any sexual preference other than the wife.

I suppose some couples who have deep emotional bonds decide to either not prioritize sex or they remove it from their relationship. They become more like the very best of friends, just as any GG would feel for a best female friend she loves as a sister, and their relationship then survives into old age. The limit of their physical affection might be just warm hugs and cuddling. They might decide to indulge in sexual gratification separately, on their own, each with their own incompatible fantasies. But, if the wife wants to be sexual with her husband and be the primary focus of her husband's sexual desire, and he can't reciprocate, there's a problem.

Do you understand the point I've been trying to make in my last few posts?

[KayC]

Maybe not unlikely but it can be complex as you've heard here and possibly experienced. I had neighbors who were married with two children and he became she...they stayed married and worked through it all because they loved each other as PEOPLE, regardless of gender.

[MoGG]

Writing as a transgender person (apply whatever definition you wish): is it then fair to say that a normal cis-gender female will be highly unlikely to find a MTF transgender person ...whether part time or full-time as an acceptable companion? From the discussion i have read below, that seems very much the case.

I don’t think anyone intended to say that, and it’s almost the opposite of my own personal case as I described it below.

If my husband was transgender I presume ( maybe wrongly ) that he as a woman would be very similar to him as a man, allowing for some differences in presentation and socialisation. Ie. She might wear skirts, but I bet she’d still wear nerdy t-shirts. She might have more interest in feminism, but still hold most of the same views. I think I would desire my husband similarly to the way I desire him as a man, if it turned out he was a woman.

This is not because I am cis, but because I am not exclusively heterosexual. Obviously if I were 100% straight and it turned out my husband was actually a woman, I might still her but the desire would be gone. Most women are straight or mostly straight, so it’s hardly surprising that they won’t want to be married to a woman. So I guess if you think lesbian and bisexual women are abnormal your statement would hold, but it would also apply to cis women as well.

In the case of cross-dressers who have male gender identity, it does seem to be the case that extremely few cis women find it attractive in itself, although many love and support the men who are into it and some enjoy it as bringing pleasure to their SO. Obviously CDs present in a variety of ways. In my personal experience, cross-dressers who do not identify as women usually portray more of a male fantasy of a woman, but that might be internet bias. Some CDs, especially those for whom the sexual fetish element is predominant, favour a presentation of women that a lot of women feel is distinctly unflattering even if not intended that way, and I am not at all talking about passing or physical features. But you know, it’s pretty obvious a man with a sexual fetish for CD is going to present as a woman he finds sexy, and it’s pretty obvious a lot of woman find the representation of women in mainstream porn pretty unflattering to women. My husband has a presentation that isn’t totally porny, but is very girlish and frilly, in a way that I think is attractive to many more men than women. It is very different to the way he acts and expresses himself as a man. I would not be attracted to a cis or trans woman like that. I might be attracted to him if he cross-dressed similar to women I do find attractive. I don’t know. I don’t know if very heterosexual women think of it the same way.

But this is all about sexual attraction because of the last few comments. There’s a lot more to companionship. Most cis women here are in loving relationships with men. I am too, even if we are having some trouble right now.

[ReineD]

MoGG you bring up a great point!

Just because a MtF CD, TG or TS presents as a woman, it does not mean that she will change political opinions, change career choices, change music choices, change tastes in what to read, eat, etc, etc, etc. A friend of mine transitioned years ago. She is not a tall woman (shorter than me), but she was a builder with lots of skill before transition. After transition she continued to do home renovations. Before transition she rode bicycles avidly. She continued to do so after transition. My own SO is the same person with the same tastes, the same opinions, the same beliefs, whether presenting as a man or a woman. We talk about the same things whether dressed or not. Maybe this is why it always has been so easy for me to accept my SO.

And so why should a MtF CD, TG or TS, if they opted for sensible clothes when in male mode, turn it completely around and opt for frilly, frou-frou stuff or revealing sexy clothes in girl mode. Or if they walk normally in male mode, why would they suddenly sashay down the street wiggling their bottoms in female mode. If there is a huge change in personality, clothing style, mannerisms, etc, between dressed and not dressed, then in my view it speaks more to dressing as a fetish than a need to express a degree of femininity or vulnerability that many men are afraid of expressing in public. A CD, TG or TS who completely changes their personality style and dresses and acts like a vamp or a sex kitten, merely expresses what as a man, his hormones dictate he finds appealing in a woman. When he does this, he is in fact appealing to his own male sexual instinct.

[kimdl93]

My question is whether a heterosexual (or bisexual) transgender person (MTF) (to distinguish from a CD person) must be perceived as a necessarily a criticism of his partner? If one doesn’t present as a vamp, sex kitten or some other stereotypical, sexualized representation of a woman... must the TG person’s presentation be viewed in the same light?

I know, it seems the question answers itself.

Clearly, my question as a transgender person can’t help but overlap with the related questions posed by CD people. I understand the reaction of women to what I would agree are caricatures of female sexual attractiveness. I don’t mean to say this as a criticism of the CD (or whatever) who finds gratification in this form of self expression, but I know that from a female perspective, hyper feminine and sexualized dress represent more of the same objectification, the same assault on self image, and the same threat to ones sense of desirability.

[MoGG]

My question is whether a heterosexual (or bisexual) transgender person (MTF) (to distinguish from a CD person) must be perceived as a necessarily a criticism of his partner?

Trans women are women, so the terminology gets a bit confusing for me. Do you mean people who feel they are only partly trans or identity outside a gender binary? I was at great pains to say I think I would be attracted to my partner if he happened to be a woman, trans or cis, Reine made it clear that she can accept her partner because he is fundamentally the same when dressed, so we’ve already answered in the negative.

Even with a cross-dresser who identified entirely as a man, who emulates women entirely for fetishistic reasons, whose portrayal is grossly sexist*, whose sexual attraction is entirely self-focused... even that is not a criticism of his partner**. Sometimes people are just sexually incompatible. Sometimes people are just sexually incompatible with all other humans. It is hurtful to a partner who once had, or thought they had, a more mutually desiring relationship. Rejection always hurts, but its not actually a criticism.

*What we are into sexually is socially influenced but rarely a choice. I don’t blame men for being aroused by sexist porn. I blame them if they then think this in any way reflects on what women are really like or how we should be treated. Well, I do blame them a bit when they think pretending to be a woman requires pretending to be stupid, but I’m working on that.

**It can be combined with one though. Most of the members here are kind and thoughtful, but there’s definitely people even here who put women down to make themselves feel superior. Cf all the rants about how unfeminine modern women are.

[Robbiegirl]

Ladies - Simple Question : Do you think it is normal Human Curiosity that a young boy might think it would be fun to see how he would look and feel in one of his sisters pretty dresses, Tutus, and dance outfits ? After all his sister seems so happy dancing around in these colorful outfits. This being a boy that had NOT been taught that Girls things were never to be touched by a boy and if he did ridicule and punishment would follow ?

Harder Question : If your young son or grandson showed a curiosity about girls clothes would you play along and encourage him to try something on for fun or scare the crap out of him and tell him to not even think about doing anything Girlish ?

[char GG]

I have no idea, Robbie. My son loved to do things that his sister did but he never had an interest in her clothes. My daughter was more interested in bikes, trains, and Legos than dolls. She had dance outfits but never was that interested in them. She ignored them after the dances recitals were over. My son did not care what he wore, he probably didn't even know where her dance outfits were. They did respect each other's rooms and things. I guess I'm not a good one to answer that question.

My grandson's other grandmother did discourage him (he was about 4 at the time) from trying on his sister's tutu. She is a psychiatrist so maybe she "knew something we didn't know". She basically told him to leave his sister's things alone.

[confused_cathreen]

Robbie, there is no abnormal curiousity so by definition, sure. Of course if my child was curious about how taking drugs feels like, I would certainly discourage that, as well as endangering their lives in any way. So there are limits to how much a parent would encourage their children to explore life. But if we are only talking about gender and sexuality, I think all the mums here would allow their children to explore their own boundaries. I don't understand what you mean by encouraging though. Do you mean if I had a son, if I would purposely buy him a dress? I don't think I would do that, unless he asked for one and then we would discuss. For example, my daughter has always been a tomboy. I have always gone along with her lead on toys, clothes and interests. I have always said I am here for anything and everything she wants to discuss and when she reached her pre-teen years, I have openly told her that she can be interested in any gender and to bring anything to the table when she is ready.
That is different though than my position on my relationship. My daughter is of the age when she is discovering her gender and sexuality so hope by the time she is an adult, she will know what/who she is. And she is doing the emotional work to ensure she understands herself first and foremost. As I did when I was her age. It wasn't a bed of roses to do this when I was growing up. Lesbians and TG FtM were not accepted as openly as they are now. I know this from my own experiences with friends, I had both kinds growing up. So my tolerance of people not knowing themselves is quite low, since I believe that people owe it first to themselves and then to those around them to be honest about such foundamental issues. I don't believe it has much to do with parental involvement since this is a personal adventure, regardless of how your parents feel. Ultimately, it's a personal choice when one chooses not to face the questions within themselves in a timely manner. I guess my standards for others are as high as they are for myself and that is propably not a healthy outlook, something to work on for me. So I have a different approach to my child than I do to my bf since I am not his mother. I can be here for him but I can't affect how he goes about it as he is a grown man and needs to make his own decisions, unlike my daughter who I can more actively support. No woman signs up to a relationship to have the role of a mother towards their partner, you are supposed to be co-pilots, not passengers in eachother's lives. So I guess what I am trying to say is that it is my belief that the way your parents "encouraged"or "disencouraged" your interests has little to do with how anyone approaches their gender identity and sexuality. It's more a personal willingness or unwillingness to work on one's self.

Kim, I didn't understand your question.

[Robbiegirl]

To Clarify my question - Maybe encourage was the wrong word.

If your son showed interest in his sisters ballet tutu would you simply ask him if he wanted to try it on. Or would you do nothing or would you go as far as Char's relative and discourage him ?

[MoGG]

@Robbiegirl

My son will be allowed to choose his own within practical grounds of cost, health and safety and cleanliness. He’s still too young to do much choosing but we try to get him things he prefers. That meant getting him bright pink things when he was very little and more conventionally boyish things now. We try not to encourage him or impose our tastes either way.

As for a hypothetical sister’s clothes he would have to ask her. I certainly wouldn’t let him try them on without her permission. And if I caught any boy or man over trying on anyone else’s underwear without permission I’d certainly tell him off ( appropriately for his age ). It doesn’t take any gender issues to make that disgusting, unhygienic and disrespectful.

[ReineD]

My question is whether a heterosexual (or bisexual) transgender person (MTF) (to distinguish from a CD person) must be perceived as a necessarily a criticism of his partner?

No. Are there any comments from GGs in this Q&A session that would lead you to understand that just the mere fact of a MtF CD, TG, or TS presenting as a woman would be perceived as a personal criticism by their wife? My SO has identified in turns both as TG & CD in the past. I am not offended by his presentation, other than at times I wondered if he was wanting to attract men. I myself dress sexily on occasion, specifically to be attractive to the opposite sex. (I don't dress that way just to hang out with other GGs. :)) There is nothing wrong with dressing sexily, if the GG (or CD, TG or TS) is single or wanting to be pleasing to their SO.

But, female-attracted CDs/TGs/TSs must understand that this doesn't work both ways. Although a GG's husband will appreciate it if his wife dresses to please his male instinct, there is nothing about short skirts, décolletage, form-fitting sweater dresses, high heels, etc, that would sexually stimulate a hetero GG. By definition, a hetero GG is not stimulated by other women, whether they are sexy or not. So if her CD, TG or TS husband dresses that way, it is difficult to not assume the husband is wanting to be pleasing to men.



If one doesn’t present as a vamp, sex kitten or some other stereotypical, sexualized representation of a woman... must the TG person’s presentation be viewed in the same light?


No, of course not.


Ladies - Simple Question : Do you think it is normal Human Curiosity that a young boy might think it would be fun to see how he would look and feel in one of his sisters pretty dresses, Tutus, and dance outfits ? After all his sister seems so happy dancing around in these colorful outfits. This being a boy that had NOT been taught that Girls things were never to be touched by a boy and if he did ridicule and punishment would follow ?

Nope. I think the vast majority of boys have no interest in trying on girls' clothes. Most prepubescent boys think that girls and anything girl-related have cooties.



Harder Question : If your young son or grandson showed a curiosity about girls clothes would you play along and encourage him to try something on for fun or scare the crap out of him and tell him to not even think about doing anything Girlish ?

The motive for putting on girls' clothes is initially sexual, for most boys who choose that route. I would explain to my son that he would have a happier sex life later, if he didn't engage his neurotransmitter reward system to associate sexual pleasure with wearing women's clothing. Instead, he might find out what his buddies were sexually attracted to and cultivate sexual arousal for that.

If my son were under the age of 5 when first wanting to wear girls' clothes, I would neither encourage nor interfere. I would let it play out. One of my sons wanted to wear my high heels. It turned out he just wanted to be taller than his older brother. lol

[Robbiegirl]

I guess the real question then is if a boy is even curious about girls clothes is he already doomed ?

And can boys recover if they make the mistake of stepping into a dress, tutu, or panties. ? Are they doomed ?

[ReineD]

I guess the real question then is if a boy is even curious about girls clothes is he already doomed ?

And can boys recover if they make the mistake of stepping into a dress, tutu, or panties. ? Are they doomed ?

Having had 3 sons and lots of experience with having all their friends come to the house to play, and for literally hundreds and hundreds of sleepovers over the years, I'd say the boy who is curious about girl clothes has already learned to associate physical pleasure (if he is too young to have experienced orgasm) with the symbolism that items of girls clothing represent to him. If he continues to indulge, and doesn't confide in someone who understands enough to help him without shame direct the arousal elsewhere , then eventually all those synapses will form and the behavior will embed. Eventually the behavior will become part of his identity.

We live in a rather sexually ignorant society. Parents don't talk to their kids about pleasurable feelings or sex at an early enough age (kids begin to touch themselves and feel physical pleasure at age 3 or 4) and homophobia is rampant, and so little boys who experience the need to try on girls panties or tutus for other reasons than just being curious, feel they must keep it a secret and so they are pretty much on their own to keep reinforcing the behavior. Once established, sexual preferences cannot be changed, especially once they form part of a person's identity.

You might want to read this:
https://sexologyinternational.com/understanding-a-sexual-fetish/

[char GG]

Robbiegirl,

"Doomed" is a pretty harsh sounding word. When I think of a boy/man/girl/woman being doomed it's because they haven't achieved balance in life. Or, they have become reclusive either due to an obsession (whatever that may be), antisocial, or possibly even a mental impairment. It doesn't matter what their walk in life entails, job, pay scale, or education, married, single, if they can be a good member of society, friendly, compassionate, HAPPY, all the traits we enjoy in other people, then I don't think anyone is "doomed".

If someone wants to slink around on the edges of society and complain what a horrible lot in life they have, nobody likes me, poor me, profound guilt, I didn't get what I deserve in life (you know these people), they are the ones I feel are "doomed".

So back to your original question:
I guess the real question then is if a boy is even curious about girls clothes is he already doomed ?
My opinion would be absolutely not!. If they can achieve life balance and inner peace in their lives, no one is never doomed.

[kimdl93]

Over the past year, I've come out to about a number of women in the same social orbit. All expressed surprise, but to my great surprise, all have continued as friends, and remain extremely kind and supportive. To my greater surprise, very close personal relationships have emerged. That is knowledge of me as a person, followed by coming out preceded any degree of intimate relationships. It seems, as is often advised on this site, that relationships are possible for a transgender heterosexual if the revelation of gender identity comes before intimacy develops. How did it work in your relationship?

[ReineD]

I'm not surprised you've made friends who support you, Kim. I think it is easier initially for a GG to support a friend than someone she is romantically involved with. And who knows ... one of these friendships might develop into something more, now that she knows everything? :) It worked for my SO and I. I've no idea how I might have reacted had my SO told me years into our relationship.

[Di]

. It seems, as is often advised on this site, that relationships are possible for a transgender heterosexual if the revelation of gender identity comes before intimacy develops. How did it work in your relationship?

In my and Sherlyns relationship we were friends along with a bunch from here that were close friends. We fell in love and the rest is history.

[char GG]

By Kimdl93

That is knowledge of me as a person

Just insert any "relationship" in this question. It doesn't matter who you are, when you get to know someone, there is either a connection or not. If you want the connection/relationship to develop and evolve into something more than just casual, you reveal more and more about yourselves. Both parties are either still interested or the friendship remains casual.

Whether you live your life as a TG (insert whatever label you want to use), and as long as the other party is comfortable with the entire package of a "person", it's a win-win. Maybe it's best not to box yourself into a "label" and just be you.

Since you remain friends with GG's who are kind and supportive, I am going to assume that you are a nice and supportive person in return.

To answer your last question, my relationship was a little different because my husband started CDing late in life... he was my best friend and we had been married for a long time. There was a "new" normal and learning curve.

Many marriages of members in my husband's social group did not survive a late in life disclosure.

[confused_cathreen]

It seems, as is often advised on this site, that relationships are possible for a transgender heterosexual if the revelation of gender identity comes before intimacy develops. How did it work in your relationship?

Absolutely! There are always people who will go for different types, brunette, blonde, big, small, tall, short etc. The difference between these characteristics and transgenderism is the obvious nature of the former and the often secretive nature of the latter. People will make the choices that suit them and if one is upfront, like you are, more chances of finding someone who will choose you freely. But, as often is evident here, the tg nature is hidden from the tg person and even when revealed to them, can be a while after that that the partners find out/get told. It's like you liking big women and one day realising that your partner is actually wearing a fat suit and you then are asked to bend your preferences because your partner can not handle wearing that suit any longer. I am not going into the why's/ why not's here, just saying that this is the end result. In my relationship, it worked negatively as I am big on trust and need that to invest in a relationship. And due to my bfs disastrous handling of the whole thing, we haven't recovered so my investment is minimal and within strict boundaries (lucky that it's a LDR and my daily life isn't affected). If he was a different person and open about who he was, I don't know how I would have handled it. I might have given him a test drive, I might have not. We'll never know :)
I will advice caution though, like Reine mentioned. Not every woman who wants to be your friend will want to move beyond the friendzone. Some times, if you are seen like a woman, it will not even cross the mind of a straight woman to even consider you as a potential partner. But as seen by Di and Reine, it can happen! Keep being you, if it's mean to be, it will be. Just like in cis relationships :)

[Kelly DeWinter]

OK, Serious question. Why do women run like women in tippy toes, arms slightly out, hands out at 45 degree angle, yet at a sports event they run like
(this is not PC) ….. well like men. If a man would run like women do outside of sports events they would be called gay. This was a real lunch conversation today.

[char GG]

Sorry Kelly, I have no idea. I can't say that I have witnessed this either. Were they running in heels, lol?

I work out at a gym and none of the women there run like that (and there is a lot of running going on there).

I do know what you mean, though, because I've seen it when women are imitating someone else.

[MoGG]

@Kelly De Winter
Is this a serious question, or are you parodying Robbiegirl?
If serious, no, I have never seen a woman run like you describe, and I see a lot of women run in the park, run for the bus etc. Everyone I see runs like a typical human. Women running tippy toes, arms out at an angle, sounds like choreography for a 1930s musical, when they are trying to signal “feminine ( and endearingly physically incompetent ).

The only thing I can think is that in some places, women are heavily encouraged to not show any physical prowess in case it makes men feel less superior. My own grandfather was born in Poland in 1916, and was adamant that I shouldn’t carry heavy things in front of men because it would scare them off. Maybe you see a lot of women who have been socialised that way.

That’s if you meant 45 degrees out and down. If their arms are extended upwards and they are going at a rather slow pace, do not let the pancake makeup fool you. Those girls are zombies, and they are out for your brains!

[Kelly DeWinter]

charGG and MoGG ; Totally serious question. Jeannie and I have been to a number of outdoor events and have seen women running like this in both tennis shoes and heels, to catch a bus, a train, even to get out of the rain. However I've never seen a woman compete in a track meet, softball game or the gym in this manner
305218

[MoGG]

Ok, when I was looking at the internet to see what on earth you could possibly mean, I did stumble on the video that image was taken from, which is an anti -sexist sports ad, where women are acting out what it means to “run like a girl “ used as an insult, and then showing girls really running, ie. properly as if they are trying to get somewhere.

Maybe it’s a US thing, because I have never come across this idea that women run in a specifically stupid way? I am astounded you have ever seen a woman seriously attempting to run like that. Maybe they were joking?

The other alternative is that some women think looking competent at anything is unfeminine and scary to men. Honestly I think the women you saw were mucking about though, because it would take a serious amount of energy to run that way and you’d end up not going much faster than walking. I guess people attempting to run in high heels might need to put their arms out to balance, but it wouldn’t look like the young woman in the picture - and who runs in high heels anyway, people would take them off and go barefoot before they did that.

[char GG]

Nope, I've never seen a woman seriously run like the picture.

[Di]

Maybe someone might run like that in heels . BUT I’ve never ever saw anyone run like that.
I did read somewhere ( France I believe) ran a marathon in 3 in heels.i hope she did not run like that .lol

[MoGG]

I’m sticking a link up to the commercial from which your picture came, Kelly, because it actually is a pretty good answer to your question.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qtDMyGjYlMg

[kimdl93]

My very best friend, a GG, suggested to me in a text:

"it seems like you don't want to be tg
"Only female
"And to fit in.

I kinda think I understand what she was saying....that "inside" I want to be able to live and be accepted as a woman. And yet, I am very aware that I am biologically not female, I grew up socialized as male and repressing whatever the heck I am, and I don't have a ghost of a chance of passing.

As is often the case, her observations got me thinking about what "fitting in" might mean. I know I am more comfortable hanging with female friends in either mode. I really don't socialize with males, outside of the family.

Is "fitting in" realistically attainable?

[MoGG]

Oh, kimdl93, I’m a cis woman, and I don’t “fit in” with all women, or even most, although that doesn’t preclude having interesting conversations of course. Women have the same range of personal histories, temperaments, political preferences, aesthetic choices as men do... many of which are just as or more important to us than our gender. I’m sure you do know and understand this, you are just understandably focused on the gender part of your identity at the moment.

So no, you will never “fit in” with “women” as a group, no woman could possibly do that either. But if you mean will being trans always rub at your awareness, like a newly chipped tooth your tongue wants to play with - well, I’m not trans, but I doubt it. I’m sure you will find friends, including cis women, where your transness will just be a part of your identity that no one, including you, thinks about unless it comes up. In fact, it sounds like that might already be happening, it’s just that being trans is, understandably, at the forefront of your awareness right now.

Most people identify as either women or men, so your current situation where you switch between identities ( I think from your posts that this is what you are doing? ) will probably make your trans identity more unusual, and also mean your experiences remain even further than those of most women. But even if you decide to stay like this forever, you will still find groups where this is both accepted and comfortable.

[ReineD]

OK, Serious question. Why do women run like women in tippy toes, arms slightly out, hands out at 45 degree angle, yet at a sports event they run like
(this is not PC) ….. well like men. If a man would run like women do outside of sports events they would be called gay. This was a real lunch conversation today.

Women in sports don't run like men. They run like women. I think you refer to stereotypes in the first part of your description. Everyone knows the stereotypes, including GGs, but in reality we don't run like that. Or, maybe in a movie once you saw an older, out of shape woman trying to run in heels?

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs

Also try to notice regular women jogging in your neighborhood and you'll see that no one "runs like a girl".


EDIT
I see that MoGG posted the same link I did. Kelly, maybe you can watch the video twice! :)







Is "fitting in" realistically attainable?

I think so. I have a number of male friends that I feel close to and can talk to for hours. I don't think that a person's sex should be a barrier to close friendships. The millennial generation has found that out. My kids have a number of close relationships with both sexes. :)

And I'll also echo MoGG. I "fit in" with people I feel comfortable with. I don't fit in with a number of crowds, whose lifestyles or values don't mesh well with mine, be they men or women.

[Kelly DeWinter]

My apologies, I do understand that men run like men and women run alike women in sports and jogging, which are generally the same fists closed arms, arms pumping close to body, body leaning forward.

but ....

and my photo was an exaggerated example of a different type of running that some women use outside of sports.

Another example we were watching Alan Quartermain and the Lost City of Gold . In one scene Richard Chamberlain and Sharon Stone were running from a lion. Chamberlain was running like a sprinter and Stone was running with hands up palms out, yes its a movie and the director might have suggested it.

I was just wondering if the second type of running is a mannerism.

Thanks for the replies. I'll be quiet now.

[char GG]

Sorry Kelly,

I think that maybe the "run" you refer to is something "forced" for some kind effect. Obviously, the movie you referred to, is going to have a lady do a "sensationalized" run; not real life. Some ladies/girls may run like that to be funny. I still stand by my last statement; I have never seen a woman run like that unless they were imitating someone else.

[ReineD]

yes its a movie and the director might have suggested it.

Movies aren't real life, Kelly. Really you should just look closely the next time you see an average, every-day woman jogging.

[BTWimRobin]

Hello Ladies,

Since I've been out to my wife about my desires to dress, I have noticed that she never initiates a conversation about my dressing. I am the one who will bring up the subject. I know she is still trying to come to terms with all this and just wishes it will go away. I sometimes feel that I am walking on eggshells when I approach the subject.

My question is do you initiate conversations with your spouse about his crossdressing? Also how long did it take after his coming out to you before you felt comfortable enough to talk openly about it?

Thanks for your input.
Robin

[Di]

Our case is different as we met here and I met Sherlyn first so always knew.We both were mods here and Sher was free to be herself always. So we always talked ....it was just our life .It was not about cding really but us as a couple . We would talk about what we might wear to a event but it was about us.

But will say from many years being a Fab mod and in real life I had a support group that met once a month for local GGs.
Be careful you are not constantly bringing it up. I know many times when one finally comes out to their partner they just want more more more. But remember it prob took you years to wrap around it i your mind .....and I’m guessing your wife is just recent in knowing. Give her time and if it does seem like she just wants to bury it......ask her is there anything you want to ask or talk about Cding.

I wish I had a nickel for how many times I heard over the years. That’s all my hubby wants to talk about everything is about cding . It’s all about him him him.

Not saying you do that ..... but just be aware.

I would try and tell GGs it’s because your hubby hid all these years and now you know they let the flood gates open....it’s natural. But it just makes them feel overwhelmed....so like others say here baby steps and I say make it about the both of you .


One more thing I want to ADD! I’m guessing you never told her before marriage and she could make a decision on this....she might embrace it and she might not.And nothing wrong if she doesn’t ....that’s on you. If this does not apply to your situation ....this is for others reading this.....it’s not going away be upfront better to figure out before marriage so you do not have this conflict. Much better to share your life openly from the beginning.

[char GG]

Hi Robin,

Sorry for my confusion but, I'm not sure what you are expecting your wife to say? Or what do you want say to her? I am curious what there is about cross dressing that you want to discuss. Is it the clothes? Are you waiting for her to ask you to cross dress for her? You don’t have to answer me. Just be clear with yourself what you really want her to do.

It took me a while to get on board with my husband's CDing because he only started six years ago. But now, we just have everyday conversations. Talking about clothes just to talk about them gets old and boring really fast (for me). If something comes up related to CDing, like talking about one of his CD Facebook friends, we might discuss it. When we are go out someplace together and he's cross dressed, then we just get ready and go. If we go shopping, it's usually "yes, that looks good" or "noooo, ugly!". Really not a lot of CD conversations come up in our day to day life.

Di makes a really good point. I will say that many of the CDers I have met from my husband's social group want to be the center of attention and have life revolve around them. Take care not to overwhelm your wife with your program.

I hope I answered your question.

[BTWimRobin]

Hi Char and Di.

Thank you for your replies. I think I am not going to let this bother me. I've only been out to her for a couple of months. She honestly doesn't understand why women want to wear woman's clothing let alone understand why her husband does. Quite frankly, j have no idea why j want to either. I'll continue to take it slowly and see where it goes. Thanks again.
Robin

[Amy Lynn3]

I have a thread going in the Clothing and Beauty forum about Charcoal Bars for facial washing. I ask for advise about the use and quality of those bars, but with little results. My next thought is to come here and ask the gg's to maybe log into my thread and comment on my question. I'm sure some of you ladies can give expert advise on the usage of them, unless it is giving away top secret information. hehe

[char GG]

Sorry Amy Lynn, I have never tried Charcoal Bars. I've looked at them but did not feel the need to try anything different than my typical routine. It's my understanding that they are for oily or blemish prone skin. If that is your skin type, it may be worth a try.

[Crissy 107]

Trust, I’ve lost it with my wife and would like to get at least some of it back.
I came out to my wife over 5 years ago and in the beginning it was all ok as long as I kept it in house with no friends or family finding out. No problem with that and it never has. Earlier this year my wife found out I was on this site, she has been a mess over this. She has told me, you know it’s the internet. Just last week she started to talk about this side of me which is very rare. She told me I lied to her by keeping this part of me quiet for so long, we have been married for many years. She told me I have my “friends “ to talk to and she has nobody. Believe me I tried to get her to join here and talk with you ladies. The by far biggest issue is the lack of trust in me. When we got married I had already suppressed this part of me and continued to do so for many years, successfully I thought. We all know this will never go away but I did not know that. I knew she would not like me being on any site like this so that was the reason I never mentioned it. Like I said I was already out to her about my desire to cross dress, which she of course also does not understand.
Will it ever be possible to gain some amount of trust with my wife again? This is something that has caused issues since early this year.

[char GG]

Wow Crissy,

Everyone relationship is different so not knowing you or your wife, it's hard to know if her lost trust will ever be regained. At this point, you are in an uphill battle.

She may be anxious about you being on line, especially if she hasn't visited our site. My husband didn't start CDing until six years ago. His first on line site was "Date A Crossdresser" which was really pretty horrible as far as I was concerned. Even the name of the site was alarming. When he came to CDer.com, I thought it was more of the same. However, I found this site to be very helpful, after I was able to weed out what I considered fetishists and alarmists (that took some time).

I understand her reluctance to join us but if she is willing to take the step to join us, she may find answers or be able to vent since she does have anyone to talk to. It's hard to be alone and sometimes, as a wife, our own thoughts can be our worst enemies.

At this point, you are what I would consider to be recovery mode. Tell her you love her often. Make sure you are always honest in the future. Hopefully, your honesty will positively answer questions that linger in her mind. She probably still has many festering concerns that need to be talked about. Since she doesn't have anyone she can talk to, maybe she would consider seeing a therapist, as a couple or by herself, familiar with gender concerns.

I wish you both the best.

[Di]

Amy Lynn, I have very sensitive fair skin so I do not try or interested in something so harsh.

Crissy,
Just do not hide anything anymore ( I doubt you do)
And remember
When you first started this relationship, trust was not immediate. Trust has to be earned over time. It is natural that when trust is broken, it will take some time to repair. So give it time .
I hope she will understand this forum helps you and maybe she will join us.

[confused_cathreen]

Amy, never tried them I am afraid so can't comment on them. Every skin type is different with different needs and to make it even more complicated, male and female skin is different as well. You have to test things yourself to see if it agrees with you.
Crissy, it's interesting, I actually had this conversation with my bf a couple of months ago. In the past, I had a 100% trust in him as he had proven repeatedly that he wouldn't purposely try to mess me about. He did something that shook that belief and took him quite a while to regain my trust. But the ceiling at that point had dropped to 75-80%, meaning I would never trust him again at 100%. Then cding happened, now I don't trust him and whatever he does, it will never get above 50%. Which means this relationship will never be the kind you can invest your life on. We are lucky since we don't live together and the reframing of our relationship doesn't affect our every day lives. I can't tell you what to do to regain her trust as it is individual to her beliefs and morals. But I can tell you what NOT to do: hide anything. Anything and everything you do, give her a heads up. A "I am thinking of doing this, or the other, what do you think?" This is not asking for permission, it's asking for opinion. The problem with low trust in any relationship is that when you don't trust someone, you are no longer bound by a sense of loyalty and honesty to them. And then, anything goes. In your relationship, where you are married and loyalty should be essential in order for the partnership to work efficiently, including your partner in every step of your cding, or any matter really, is a must. You wouldn't have bought an expensive car or gone away for a week with your friends without discussing it with her first, right? As she wouldn't be able to do that either. Build trust by treating your wife as you should, a life partner whose opinion matters to you. Don't unilaterally decide on issues, even if you think they are personal issues. Because if she did the same, trust me, you wouldn't like it one bit. Do to others as you want done to yourself. The golden rule of life :)

[ReineD]

Since I've been out to my wife about my desires to dress, I have noticed that she never initiates a conversation about my dressing. I am the one who will bring up the subject.
... do you initiate conversations with your spouse about his crossdressing? Also how long did it take after his coming out to you before you felt comfortable enough to talk openly about it?


I'll echo Di & Char. What is it that you want her to talk about specifically. Talking about clothes is boring, other than expressing a like or a dislike for a particular item, if you're planning on making a purchase and you want her opinion. But, you'd need to show her the picture first and so you'd be bringing it up. If you want her to ask questions about your CDing wants and needs, you need to ask her if she has any questions and respect her answer if she says no. If you want her approval, you might ask her how she feels about the CDing. If you want her permission to buy things or have an outing, you need to ask her and go from there, otherwise, just buy the item and/or go out.


I'm sure some of you ladies can give expert advise on the usage of them, unless it is giving away top secret information. hehe

Sorry but I've never heard of them. Charcoal bars aren't common items in the skincare aisle at the grocery store or the pharmacy. I can only have an inkling about things I see on the shelf and if I want to know more about a certain product then I google it. :)



Will it ever be possible to gain some amount of trust with my wife again? This is something that has caused issues since early this year.

Your wife is probably wondering how far you plan to take this and it can feel like a time bomb. First it's occasional dressing at home with nobody knowing. Then it's reaching out to a community on the internet. She may be wondering what's next ... wanting to dress out in public and then possibly coming out to some friends and family? And if so, would this lead to everyone else knowing, and then perhaps a desire to dress all the time? Or, she may be wondering if you're wanting to meet men online.

I would take some time to decide how far you want to take this in an ideal world. Also determine what your limits are. Growing out your hair and nails? Hormones? Surgeries? Dates with men or becoming friends with other CDers that you can go out with? Who would you like to tell. Do you want to expand your wardrobe. Do you want to shave your body. Do you want to go out regularly dressed and if so, when and where. And then be honest with your wife.

You don't need to respond here, the answers don't really matter to us. But, if your wife knows what your goals and limits are, there should be no more surprises and it will be easier to reestablish trust.

Also, confused_cathreen has a great point. If you are making decisions to expand your CDing world without involving your wife beforehand, she may feel as if she comes second to the CDing.

[Ronnie38]

Talking with my wife last night brought up a problem. Some of the things I do or wear make her uncomfortable but she has been keeping them to herself so as not to hurt my feelings. Now I feel really guilty. I know that I need to sit and talk with her but I am not sure where to start. On top of that, I have started to feel more open and honest with the freedoms i have and have been more accepting of who I am and don't want to give those things up. But, if I'm hurting her by doing them, and she's not telling me? I don't want to give up this side of me but at the same time I don't want her to be uncomfortable around me. I'm not sure of how to approach her with this. I don't want to put myself back in the closet but I don't want to drag her through this if it truly makes her uncomfortable.

[confused_cathreen]

Let’s start with the important part of your post: Guilt. A completely useless emotion in my book because it is not constructive. It doesn’t stop you from doing something but it doesn’t make you do something either. The only thing that it does is it freezes you, unable to take action. I approach things with the “I will always try to do the best in every situation after I have considered all the parameters”, hope for the best and if it doesn’t work out, learn from my mistake and not repeat it. So straight off the bat, stop feeling guilty, it won’t help in finding a solution.

What this post tells me is that you have gone into this with no boundaries laid out agreed by both. Is that true? Did you really have full freedom to CD in any way and she agreed to tell you if something was bothering her after the fact? If that was true, then she dropped the ball because she had made a commitment to be open about her feelings and she didn’t follow through. If that is not true, and there was no discussion but you thought it’s fine since she is not saying anything, then you dropped the ball. You know your wife. Is she the kind of person who accommodates everyone’s wishes, even if it’s not the best for her? How much effort did you actually put into communicating about this subject? From your “I know that I need to sit and talk with her but I am not sure where to start” sentence, I figure you didn’t put much effort into it at all. You need to look into yourself, not for the benefit of this post. Have you REALLY gone out of your way to talk to your wife? If the answer to that is, I think I could have done better, then you certainly haven’t. A thing that I have noticed after a year in this forum is that CDers seem to forget that this is only important to them. The standard out-of-the￾box variety of straight wife does not think the way you do. You want something that is not of the garden variety, that in most cases, your wife didn’t go out actively to look for it. So it really is your responsibility to figure out a way to incorporate into your lives. The first step is always to sit down, on a stress-free day, with no interruptions expected and hatch a plan together. Get the pen and paper out. Write it down.

I will say something here and ignore it, if you like. If you go into this discussion with a “but I don’t want to give up X,Y and Z!!” attitude, you already failed. Don’t ever forget that when you live with someone, they don’t HAVE to agree to anything. Just because you thought a 60 feet boat is a good idea, doesn’t mean she will agree to getting it. Week off with the lads every 6 months? Neither that. Replace CDing with literally any issue that our partners don’t understand or have any interest in, and the same rules apply. So you WILL give up some things. What those are, are pretty much up for negotiation. She might be ok with you doing X,Y and Z that she finds uncomfortable away from her and once every 6 months or so. But more importantly, encourage her to open up about her objections. Ask questions. Don’t just sit there like a visitor in this conversation. This concerns you both. Actually, it concerns you more than her so it is in your best interest to go above and beyond, in terms of communication. Find the root of the problem. Ultimately, like in 99% of the situations I have seen here, it all comes down to communication. Don’t get fooled into a false sense of security, just because she isn’t saying anything. Off the top of my head, Rhonda Jean and Kim come to mind. They dropped the ball in the communication game and lost their partners. I am sure there are many more. Don’t be a statistic. Up your game substantially and play it smart. Good luck.

[Di]

Ronnie,
She loves you and wants you to feel loved and many of us are guilty of that.
So did not speak up and it looks like you did not communicate with her either.
But now you know .........you can fix this.
AND do not just let this go....
If things bother her ....do not let things get where she feels that it’s all about you and her feelings don’t matter.Because now you know SOME things bother her ....find out what things.
Talk to her
Tell her you love her and you can figure this out together.
Best Wishes

[char GG]

The other ladies have really commented on what I see is the real problem. Communication.


Some of the things I do or wear make her uncomfortable but she has been keeping them to herself so as not to hurt my feelings

You don't have to answer me...but ask your wife and then talk about what her thoughts are. What are you wearing that bothers her? Is it everything, some things, one thing, overall look? Is your goal just to wear something feminine or do you dress in a fetish way? Do you want to go to bed dressed feminine? Communicate.

She obviously loves you because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings. Don't let what she says hurt your feelings. Listen constructively. She is entitled to her opinions just as you are. If you want some kind of compromise, you have to communicate.

There are always alternatives but you both have to be willing to (here's that word again) communicate.

I hope you have a happy resolution to your situation.

[ReineD]

Some of the things I do or wear make her uncomfortable but she has been keeping them to herself so as not to hurt my feelings.

As the other ladies have pointed out, the two of you need to communicate better. You might want to point out that it is difficult to navigate the CDing in most marriages, and so open and honest communication is crucial for both partners to be happy. Thoughts or impressions that are not communicated openly can very easily grow into resentments and this will eventually poison your relationship.

That said, I can offer some thoughts on what your wife may feel uncomfortable with based on my own experiences and those of the countless GGs I have seen pass through here over the years. But keep in mind, these are only some of the things that some GGs have experienced and there is no way for me to know what your wife is bothered with exactly. She will ultimately need to feel safe enough with you to open up. And yes, if you and your wife do open up to one another, you may find less freedom to do what you've been doing. It will be your choice as to whether the CDing is more important to you ... or your wife.

Things that can make a wife feel uncomfortable:

1. An overly girly presentation (compared to how most women dress), or not dressing appropriate for your age. This suggests dressing for fetish, and few wives are able to compete with their husband's fetishes for their love and attention.

2. An overly sexualized presentation (body hugging clothes, short skirts, high heels, low necklines, etc). Again, this suggests dressing for fetish. Or, have you begun wearing breast forms and booty pads in recent months or years? If so, your wife may be wondering why you want a woman's body.

3. Mannerisms while you are dressed, such as sashaying while walking, limp wrists or holding a pinkie out while drinking coffee, excessive giggling, just generally prancing about, which you would not do in guy mode. Any mannerism is not natural.

4. Ramping it up beyond what your wife expected. Are you buying more clothes, wearing more makeup, spending more time wanting to dress, spending more time online window-shopping or CD-related sites, growing out your hair, your nails, are you shaving more of your body or plucking your eyebrows? If you have ramped it up, she may be wondering if it will end with you wanting to be a girl or wanting to dress full or near full time. She may feel as if she is losing her husband.

5. If one or more of items 1-4 apply to you, your wife may be wondering if you are beginning to fantasize about men.

6. If you seem distracted when you are not dressed, or if you seem happier when you are dressed than when you are not, your wife may sense that you would rather be dressing than doing whatever it is you are doing. This can make a wife question her husband's priorities.

7. Isolation. Are you wanting to do less and less with past hobbies and friends, in favor of more CD-related activities?

[Ronnie38]

Thanks to all who replied. I have tried to talk with her more more and she is very uncomfortable with this side of me. After 12 years of her sparing my feelings I have decided that a DADT would be more appropriate. Thank you all for your responses.

[Victoria_Winters]

Ok. Here a question for you GG?s out there. When you go to sleep, what do you prefer to wear? Nightgowns? Cotton PJ?s? Silk/nylon PJ?s? Nude, T-shirt? Ect...

[char GG]

I will just say that I love lots of blankets.

[confused_cathreen]

99% of the time, tshirts and pj bottoms in the winter and tshirts and shorts in the summer. The other 1% is plain tshirt when it's too hot.

[Di]

Pretty much all of the above for me . Just depends on mood and where I’m at - traveling , visiting.
Or with Sher we’d wear sometimes matching things .
Here in Texas I find myself in cotton nightgowns more often than not.

[ReineD]

I like to wear things that don't bunch up and tug under me as I toss and turn. lol. I love cool, lightweight cotton.

[cdsamswife]

At home I usually wear a tanktop (with built in bra) - usually the uniqlo ones... and cotton bikini style underwear... I dont like wearing pants to sleep...

If I am out overnight... camping or at hotels etc, its usually shorts and a light sports bra and tshirt ... - still cant deal with pants..

[MontanaB]

I recently bought a cami to sleep in and I cant figure out how long the straps should be when I am wearing it, It is a bit tight around the chest even with no bra. Am I wearing it wrong?

[ReineD]

Length of strap depends on what feels comfortable for you. There's no hard and set rule. Cami too tight? I suggest getting the next size up.

[Robbiegirl]

Ladies, On this site we tend to discuss men wearing women's clothing as it being pretty common. My question to you is really how often in your life has another women told you a story or even talked about the idea of their guy or any guy dressing up in women's clothing ? And if the subject ever did come up what was the reaction or was their any ?

I really get the impression that women don't really know we exist or want to picture that we exist ?

[char GG]

No woman that I know outside of my SO's CDing group knows that men like to wear women's clothes. They don't know you exist.

[ReineD]

It never comes up. Very few people are aware of this community. Yes, people vaguely know about drag queens, effeminate gay men, and some movie/TV stars who have transitioned but this is far outside their daily lives.

Edited to add:
As to women's attitudes should the topic ever come up, it depends on their political beliefs. Conservative? Nope. Liberal? Maybe, as long as the CDer in question has no impact on their lives for example, a coworker, a friend of a friend or someone they see at a mall. Certainly they'd be polite about it to the CDer's face. But most liberal women would initially not like it if it were their husband or son.

[Di]

Except for in the forum where we all are here because it is our life. Only just recently a new friend confided in me her daughter is transitioning. But never ever has anyone ever before mentioned it. I really do not think unless it is a part of someones life they would not ever think about it.

[Dutchess]

It never comes up with me either and I have lived a life with two cousins who are professional drag queens (over 40 years ) . I have also lived all over the world ( non military ) and I prefer VERY androgynous /NB men and still no.

I grew up in Texas and totally agree with Reine's observation about the conserves . Out here on the west coast everyone does whatever anyway and no one cares .

Like Di said we are here because it became apart of our life and for me I struggle to understand how I had TWO in my life .

[Midnightfire]

I?ve seen men wear women?s clothes periodically throughout my life, but I?ve never thought too much about it.. maybe that?s simply because it didn?t impact my life any. Though My best friends bf transitioned (ftm) and we simply supported him.. my mom was friends with drag queens and had pictures with them on a board in the house.. heck my brother wears dresses (though he?s usually drunk when that occurs..) if he does come out as a CD well, I doubt my family would look at him any different.

[Lottalove]

@Robbiegirl I'm very new to this community and honestly before my husband shared I didn't know that a straight man would want to present as female on occasion. I only knew of drag queens (family member that is a gay man) and people in the trans-gendered community. So it is I guess understandable that my first reaction was anxiety about what this would mean for my relationship ie. was my husband gay and/or was he going to transition.

[Jenny22]

If any of you ladies have worked in a ladies' retail shop (lingerie, clothing, etc.), chain or stand alone, did your specific training include how to treat/handle men as customers buying women's things?

[Paige Dehart]

Short answer is there was no specific training on how to treat male customers who are buying womens clothing. Common sense and good manners dictate that you treat all customers with dignity and respect.

[Di]

No need for specific training. As an optician in a Dept store I would treat everyone the same. Be professional, helpful, respectful, courteous to everyone.
I do not think anything less than that would be acceptable anywhere.

[char GG]

Never worked in Ladies Retail but worked in hospital/insurance settings. Everyone was treated equally.

[ReineD]

I worked in a ladies' clothing shop as a teenager. There was no training, it was just a part-time job. I'm with Paige. Common sense dictates keeping opinions (if any) out of it and treating everyone equally.

[DianeT]

Dear GGs,

It's a subject I raised in the MtF and for which I'd love your inputs. My wife is very uncomfortable with my crossdressing (in addition to the long time hiding it). And it turns out that she has several levels of discomfort. Clothes such as dresses/skirts and pantyhose do not repell her as much as high heels ("stereotype"), and especially fake breasts and wig, because in her eyes it crosses the line from liking the feel of the clothes to actually wanting to be a woman. I don't want to be a woman and have no female self, but the problem remains.
When I read accepting GGs' posts, when it comes to discussing the clothes of your SO, none of you (as far as I can recall) drew a line between clothes and boobs for example (my wife's main sore point in the matter). You talk about the "clothes" of your SO, and it looks like this term actually encompasses also makeup and prosthetics. Maybe to not delve in the details?
Honestly I can exactly understand what makes my wife uncomfortable and why.
Question: Is it possible that some of the accepting GGs have some level of discomfort with these items just like my wife does, but didn't mention it in their answers for some reason? Could you share which items and the reasons why it crosses a line or is repellent for you?
Thanks a lot!

Edit : feedback from non-accepting GGs is absolutely welcome too!

[Di]

. You had x amount of years to wrap your head around it. It will take time and remember she does not have to come to terms.
The other GGs will come in with their thoughts as mine is way different as I knew from the first time we met . I saw it as Sher needing these things and for Sher it was just to complete her look.It was not a hobby, something she did for fun, or sexual it was who she was and has been all her life. To me it would be weirder not having breast forms , wigs ect. We do see pictures of cders here with no forms or wigs and a dress on and I do not get that . NOTHING WRONG with that ....everyone is different and that includes CDs and GGs
It does not matter how we feel or think about it it?s how you two figure this out.
Best wishes

[char GG]

My situation was a little different because we were married a long time before my husband even started CDing. At first, it was just a lark to him, kind of like Halloween. Then he decided it was so much fun that he wanted to do more and bought the clothes, wigs and boobs. I can tell you that it was not comfortable for me at first. It's like an acquired taste. I didn't know where he was going with it. I wanted an "endgame". The wigs were acceptable when he finally got one that suited him. The boobs were another thing. To me, he looked ridiculous. However, his presentation in lady's clothes looked better with fake boobs. Long story short, after lots of discussion and a couple of years worth of "seeing how things played out", I came to realize that he was still my husband and hadn't changed his attitude toward me. I totally understand what your wife is feeling towards your props. Hopefully, she will understand your feelings and find a way to compromise with you. I will just clarify that IT TAKES TIME. If I could give any advice, I would say that neither of you should act to hastily. Listen to each other's concerns, see if you can make things work. Don't rush. I wish you both the best.

[confused_cathreen]

I know exactly what your wife means. The forms and the wig certainly were viewed with more hostility by me than the dress. My thinking was that breasts are to women what the penis is to men: linked to a sense of self. If you read the feelings of women who lose their breasts due to cancer, you will see that their sense of femininity was demolished. We are raised seeing them change as we grow, they can be considered a burden often, but they are part of who we are. Prosthetic breasts are used to give women who have been through a horrendous cancer experience to regain part of their normality again. And then you find out that your SO is using these for kicks. Which created a sense of caricature in my mind and felt like a mockery. To create a similar idea to you, imagine if you were not a crossdresser. And suddenly your wife starts saying that her jeans only feel complete if she wears a strap-on penis under them because....reasons. I think that you would find this offensive. Which might be difficult for you to find offensive because in reality, you are a crossdresser. But she isn't. So she does. In my case, I was unlucky that I saw him dressed (not by choice) and the image was seared in my brain. There were a lot of consequences that ultimately led to the break-up.

I was lucky that I never saw the wig but I have the same view of them. It feels like an attempt to bury the man under it and he would lose himself in the image. And if the man wishes to bury his masculinity under it (even for a short period of time), then he isn't someone who is comfortable 100% with his masculinity. Keep in mind that this is coming from me personally who feels 100% comfortable with her femininity with no need to pretend to be something else at any time. Which is obviously not the way crossdressers operate. But it didn't help understanding this even when he described his experience, which mirrors very closely to how you describe yours. His reasoning sounded like excuses to me because I could no longer trust his word. A bit like "I had too much to drink, otherwise I would have never kissed that girl I met in the bar a year ago".

To conclude, decide whether the forms and the wig are a hill you are willing to die on. If she is willing to work with you on the clothes but under no circumstances on the wig or forms, the ball will be in your court. As long as you are honest and not pretend/lie/hide, you can only do so much. Keep in mind that you can never tell her what you think she wants to hear, you must tell her the truth, no matter what the result is going to be. Because the result is up to her.

[Dutchess]

To create a similar idea to you, imagine if you were not a crossdresser. And suddenly your wife starts saying that her jeans only feel complete if she wears a strap-on penis under them because....reasons. I think that you would find this offensive.
... and worse when she finally decides to destroy her marriage so that she can wear a plastic penis in her jeans because she has.....needs .......and she is sorry but still .......

Mine is different because I have been involved with not one but two people like this and I was not looking for someone like this . Both of them had waist length thick dark hair so wigs were not involved . I was raise din a drag home so I have extremely high standards for wig wearing . A Crossdresser I did not know approached me once at a gas station , complete in 50's housewife regalia and ill applied wig/ WILD makeup . He came right up and twirled his skirt at me and it scared me to death , I didn't know if he was misguided , sick or drunk , or dangerous . It really scared me .

I met my ex husband the normal way and he was never honest about who he was whatsoever . I even asked before marriage because I knew something was up . We did have a cultural difference as I met him in the Netherlands and I was from the states. He was like an ice berg , you only saw the tip and he did not like to talk about anything . You had to guess . When I did find out , his fetish dressing EXPLODED. I mean full on streetwalker with large forms and very expensive fantasy bras .It looked ridiculous . Seriously extreme fetish but he would get upset if you told him you didn't like any part of it or he could not wear XYZ in public. Lots of drama etc . You had to like all of it or else . He was concealing a whole second life and I kept on finding out more and more and more . So I went from accepting to HATING the whole thing . He was never EVER honest and I still think he married me to get out of NL and come here so he could dress in peace and live his life . Terrible .

I also stepped out of my marriage while he was so smug about this and met my late SO I talk about , strange because s/he was s/he when we met , we were friends for a year first . A member from this forum introduced us . S/he was always honest and just who s/he was . Had been on HRT for years and had some chest going on but not much . S/he always fancied s/he had more than s/he did but just wore a smaller maidenform regular bra and no forms , no pads no nothing . I didn't care and I inherited them after her death . S/he did not make such a big deal out of it or moan about not being a woman or "feeling feminine " ( that translates into feeling something else for me and the word is not feminine ) nor did we talk about gender very much and this was on or OFF HRT as the years went by. We talked about our lives and who we were , what we hoped for , etc etc .. we talked all the time there was nothing I didn't know . I wasn't afraid or suspicious .
It makes alot of difference if you STAY you and talk .
Trust is so hard to replace

[DianeT]

Thank you very much all for your thoughtful and detailed answers. Reviewing them with my wife raised a few points and really helps our progress towards understanding each other.

[ReineD]

To Diane - as Di pointed out, all our situations are different based on the length of time we were in our relationships when we found out, the degree of honesty from the onset, whether it is a first or second relationship, etc.

My SO told me before we started dating. I already had a friend whose husband CDed and I saw that their marriage worked, so I was OK with it. Had I been married for years and had found out that my husband had lied for years, it would have been much harder for me.

My SO explained that he needed the forms in order to not look like a man in a dress while out in public. I believe him. But, they don't have to be huge. A lot of women are small-breasted and no one thinks these women look weird. At home though, I don't see why wearing forms is necessary for CDers who say they are not a woman and who do not see transition in the picture. But then I'm not a CDer. After all these years, I still don't see the attraction of a non-transitioner for fake boobs, other than the necessity for a believable presentation.

That said, I've seen pics of forum members wearing breast forms that are way over the top. The only thing you see in these pics are the size of the boobs! When I see pics like these, I see dressing for fetish. There's nothing wrong with dressing for fetish, as long as the CDer is honest with himself about his true motives.

As to things I drew a line on, it was hormones, surgeries, and on a CDing scale, wearing lipstick when kissing and perfume at any time. I am turned off by kissing someone who is wearing lipstick and perfume. Everything else comes off during intimacy. I am not sexually attracted to women.

EDIT -
Forgot to address the other things you mentioned.

Wig: my SO has long hair tied at the nape in guy mode (many of his work peers also have long hair), and this was never an issue. Although when I picture my SO wearing a wig, I think it would look weird. But then everything takes getting used to and if my SO needed a wig for a believable presentation, I would understand.

Heels: Depends on the look of the shoe. There are sensible heels, and there are (as a friend of mine puts it), f*ck-me heels. lol. Over the years I have not liked it when my SO dressed in a manner that I perceived was motivated by a desire to attract men. This included certain types of heels, clothes that were way too tight, or too short, or plunging necklines, etc. Women who just hang out with each other don't dress like that. Those types of clothes come out when women want to make an impression, and believe me when I say that other women aren't impressed with a woman's boobs, booty, legs, etc.

I also want to note that on our local campus, I've noticed fewer and fewer women over the years who dress to impress men. We've progressed to the point where we know that we can embark on our own careers, and when we're not looking for a mate, we don't feel the need to dress as if we are. :)