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A posting I read today encouraged us to think about ourselves as "one" rather than two separate personas. I think Bree made the comment and I've been thinking about that.
In my voice lessons, they sometimes refer to me as that "other person", with the "other voice", and "other presentation". When I hear that, I feel resentment. I guess I have trouble seeing myself as different people. And yet I guess the reality is that I am a "tweener", between two points and not quite fully either.
-stephani
It very much feels like there are two separate aspects of me. But that is from an external point of view. The eventual goal being to be just "one" to the outside world, the very same "one" we already are inside. Takes a lot of time, effort and patience.
I think I'm "somewhere in time" or a woman pretending to be a man that pretends to be a woman
in reality, I'm residing somewhere between my memories and my dreams.
hugs
Cheyenne
I can feel the two being blended into one each day. not complete by any point, but now they are my clothes not my female or my male clothes. there are days when I don't particularly feel like putting on either.
Barbara
Yes I guess I am two people - since I won't allow my male self to be girlie, I guess I need to be two people.
Problem is, I tell the girl to shut up a lot - all she wants to think about or do is frivolous fluffball stuff
like shop for makeup, brushes, hair stuff, clothes - she sometimes makes me look at dresses online at work.
She really needs to know when to shut up. She's a passive-aggressive, I guess.
I think this is a good idea. :) You are just one person, with many different facets. We all are.Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieC
I think that separating a "femme" side from a "guy" side might be a necessary coping mechanism for a birth male who was socialized as a male, to protect his/her more feminine facets from being trounced while growing up. But, I don't believe this is a recipe for happiness in the long run.
My SO considers herself dualgender, which is not something that many people understand. She has learned to live outwardly in a manner that people do understand (alternating gender expression among different groups of people, namely keeping her feminine expression private at work, with her elderly parents, and with our more conservative friends), all the while always being the same person internally no matter how s/he is dressed. The hair and fingernails are the same, the walk is the same (almost lol), the thoughts, the preferences, the emotions, the philosophical beliefs, the playfulness, the analytical mind, the sense of humor, etc are all the same, and this works admirably well no matter her mode of presentation. :) The only thing that changes is makeup, breast forms, and clothes, which takes her very little time to put on whenever she feels like it.
Edited to add: Come to think of it, the same things change for me when I get dressed for a nice evening out .. not forms, but I put on makeup and more stylish clothes.
Each life is a miniature universe that from birth is always evolving until it ends so we are always living as "tweeners" between the beginning and the ending but if you step back occasionally and feel the continuity that is 'you" than you will always be in touch with the "one" within the "two"
Yep Reine, dual gender. Sliding scale dual gender from cd to almost ts. That's me.
Today I'm totally a dude, and have been that way for a few weeks. Dunno when I'll slide back into something more feminine. I'm ok with it, but it just seems like something is missing. Ill be on the lookout though because.
[SIZE="5"]It's gonna hit me!!![/SIZE]
Hmmm. Im reluctant to weigh in. i dont think i explain this all that well.
Like most of us, reconciling feeling I am a girl with the reality of the image in a mirror was and is hard. The idea the person in the mirror was someone else was a real feeling for me. The guy-girl mode distinction was easy to do. I let myself feel a certain way in girl mode, and feel differently in guy mode.
Somehow I let it all get out of hand for me and I had pretty significant dissociative states going on - used to be called multiple personality disorder. It has taken me years of counseling to eliminate the emotional argument within myself that fueled the splitting, and to accept that some form of transitioning is my path. And then it took more work to understand why telling others was so hard, and to then have the courage to say it to others (thanks Reine). I have ended those altered personality states and am able to be one person who can find her own feelings at any given time.
I don't think I'm typical, but I think one has to be cautious about repressing desires to transition and forcing yourself instead to keep a guy-girl mode mindset. Relegating your feelings to being felt by you only part time is not a happy way to go through life. No one really gets to know "you," and worst case you might lose track of who you are.
So no tweener stuff for me. It's all me, all the time, regardless of my clothes. It's also been important for me to self censor my comments a lot less too. An example, when I see cute boots like are all the rage, I'll say it out loud even with my macho male friends. It's a way of coming out, it's a way of being more authentic. It's a way others can get to know "me" instead of just "pretend" me. (Though yes, I still self censor for social politeness).
I've always feel the same person. No split personality. I don't hate myself nor my body, it's just that my born gender doesn't match my female mind. I'll fix it and that's all. :)
I feel like just one person, one real me with many different aspects. I am a woman in a male body, so the only thing that I have an issue with is my body. No matter what I do to my visible self, I'm still me.
Great question, thank you.
I agree with this philosophically. However, I have some people that know me as "Jack" and some that know me as "Jill", and have different friends and activities as each. I'm afraid it's creating a split personality in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Anyone else feel this way?
I too am between two points. My left foot is here my right foot is there. My left ear - well it's on my left side. My right ear is on the other side. But as far as gender is concerned, I am 100% WOMAN!
Amongst several other issues, this is why I chose to be one gender. It got way too confusing trying to be two people. I started showing up for "Jack" activities as "Jill". I also would show up for "Jill" activities as "Jill". So "Jill" I became. It was the best decision I ever made.Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieC
For me the concept of bi-gender/dual gender has been helpful. It's not a 'magic bullet' but it's a label that acts as a tool to help describe why I go into 'guy mode' sometimes and 'girl mode' other times. But embracing it has given me a lot of inner peace. I DON'T have the kind of wild 'gender swings' that some bigender people have (everyone is different), it's more gradual and shifts very slowly. And I'm fully willing to accept that this 'gender journey' is a process, not a destination.
A point between two other points is still a single point, regardless of where it falls. I am not a "tweener."Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieC
Most people here who feel they are two different people or have two different personalities use that concept as a coping mechanism, or because they don't quite understand who they are. They are not REALLY two different people, they just aren't comfortable enough with themselves to realize that these two identities are just ALL of their facets, characteristics, emotions, etc. that they are lumping into two different categories.
It can be hard to understand who you are... that's why it takes quite a bit of time and effort for many of us and why we often times enlist the help of therapists and other supportive mediums.
Sometimes I refer to the 'old me' as a different person, but that's just basically an easy way of explaining where I was at one point in live versus another. If you're transitioning, you're not ending the existence of one person and then creating the existence of another. You are simply allowing yourself to be the person you always were, while learning to express your identity you've always had and overcoming the things you trained yourself to do to fit the identity you made up to fit in.
I think too many people here, especially those who haven't been able to deeply and unapologetically explore their true selves, put entirely too much stake into the definitions of gender, sexuality and identity that our binary society has created. Once you learn that the words "man, woman, gay, straight," etc. are HUGE generalizations that don't really fit the way we thought, you'll start thinking in terms of YOU and ME rather than all these classifications we like to use to put everyone into neat little boxes.
I happen to fit into a few neat little boxes, but I only learned that because I learned to do away with the boxes to fully understand who I am.
I'm definitely a tweener, but feel like one person.
I've changed my appearance over two years' time, I lost about 25 pounds (...no, 30 pounds as of today!!! my jogging has paid off) , did laser & electrolysis on my face, and grew my hair down past my shoulders.
What's really weird, and also rather comforting is that I work in a pretty contemporary office building that has lots of glass walls separating the offices (including mine) from the main area, and every time I see a reflection of me, I can't believe how feminine and girly I look. The face fat has melted away.
At the same time, I have all the same guy's interests and attitude as before. Sometimes I feel like an anomaly, but I feel like.....me.
I tell people that Debbie is who I am on the inside, all the time. Rex is the identity I created to defend myself from the word when they told me I couldn't be a girl anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieC
Most of us have a core being, who we were before we discovered that the world was dangerous, that there was something wrong with us, that we didn't belong, that we were on our own.
When we were confronted - often unintentionally, we found way so survive, to succeed in the areas where we could, believing that we could not succeed where we had failed or had been denied. I couldn't make the nurse stop sticking needles in my arm and I assumed that God was punishing me, so I had to be good. I didn't belong (with girls or with boys), so I had to be smart, I was alone and on my own, so I had to be a Chameleon. I could be funny when I had to be, I could appear to be nearly anything, but I didn't dare let people know the "Real Me" - because if they rejected her, it would literally kill me (suicide, fatal accident, accidental overdose, killed by haters...).
I had a gender associated with my core, but other people may actually miss the days when their family was poor, or when their family was living in urban areas. Every human being has parts of themselves that are so precious, so cherished, so vulnerable that we dare not expose that core to anyone, because if it were rejected, it would be a rejection of who we really are. When people reject or make fun of the mask, there is not as much threat. When we share our true selves, and the true self is rejected, it's as if our relationship with that person is now a horrible contemptible lie. We've trained people to relate to the mask, and they know it's fake. They might want to know who's really inside, but they are afraid too, because if we expose our true selves, they might feel a need to share their true selves - and risk rejection by us. It's almost too intimate.
One of the things I began to experience when I was coming out as Debbie on a daily basis, was that Debbie DID have a different personality than Rex did. Rex was a bit of a clown, and way too much of a "know it all". Debbie seemed to be more comfortable with intimacy, with being authentic, with integrity, with honesty, with compassion, with empathy for others. Rex was a propeller head and a clown, Debbie was a sponsor of dozens of addicts who got clean and Debbie helped those people sponsor others, helping hundreds who helped thousands get clean. Debbie sponsored more people in her first year than Rex had done in the previous 8 years. Debbie was a better manager, was more organized, was more responsible, and more able to control situations around her. Debbie was invited to Landmark Education, and Debbie assisted in 100 Landmark courses, and Debbie produced unprecedented results. When I was forced to give up Debbie, to "Burn the Dress", it became nearly impossible to tap into those positive aspects Debbie provided. It was like she was pouting and refusing to come out and play.
In voice training, you are learning to create a voice that matches your feminine presentation. Let's say you are 30 years old. You've had about 25 years to perfect your male presentation, even if you hate it. On the other hand, you may have never had the chance to share your feminine presentation, or you might be starting your first year of Real Life Experience as feminine, and you need to be as diligent about managing and perfecting that presentation as you were about managing your masculine presentation. As a transsexual, it is no longer just about putting on a skirt, hose, and heels, and trying to look pretty in the mirror or around the house, it's about being able to walk around day and night, in business meetings, on phone calls, when you're relaxed, when you are tense, and maintaining a female presentation. You might be able to win the argument or stop a threat by dropping into your lowest bass voice and saying "got a problem with that?", but it won't help with the long term goal of transition. Even if your co-workers know that you are transgendered, they will be more comfortable if you maintain a single gender presentation when you are with them.Quote:
In my voice lessons, they sometimes refer to me as that "other person", with the "other voice", and "other presentation". When I hear that, I feel resentment. I guess I have trouble seeing myself as different people. And yet I guess the reality is that I am a "tweener", between two points and not quite fully either.
There is one person in this body, and that person has many facets, like a fine diamond, which has over 85 different facets. Each facet reflects and refracts light, making the stone appear more brilliant and to sparkle more than if only one face or just a few faces were there - like an Emerald cut. On the other hand, like the diamond, there is one very large flat face at the top of the diamond that provides a view into those other faces - when I tried to be Rex, it was like I had tried to pour grease and glue over that top face. When I came out as Debbie, and let her find her own expression, it was like that face had been polished to provide a very clear view into a flawless radiant cut. If I think about it, trying to "burn the dress" was a bit like trying to get rid of that top face by rubbing it down with sandpaper.Quote:
-stephani
My SO does the same thing, for practical reasons. The world does not know how to deal with hybrid genders. lol. So s/he made a choice to live within the rules. S/he has no wish to transition, neither does s/he feel like a guy. But, guy it is at work (since again, few people understand the switching back and forth) and with her elderly parents, and she presents as a girl when she feels like it. The only way to do this sanely is to always be the same person internally, if this makes sense. In other words, she has the same interests, conversation, views, sense of humor, etc when she interacts with people who do not know her guy self, or who know her in both modes, as he does with people who do not know his girl self. For example, my SO is into politics and ecology in both modes. And, my SO enjoys articles on clothing and styles in both modes. Nothing changes, really, except the makeup, forms, and clothing, and her feeling sometimes more feminine, and sometimes more masculine.Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieC
... although sometimes I sense that she feels very feminine when she's in guy mode, and vice versa. And that's OK too. :)
I am trying to come to some sort of a true blend, and I'm getting there, to a degree. Some days, it just doesn't work, due to circumstances,and I find the "maleness" takes over,lol! Work, social situations, etc., sometimes dictate who you must "be". Kind of like water,sloshing around in a bowl, from side to side--but, eventually, it settles down, to a smooth even surface.
i can't speak for anyone else, but throughout transition i felt lots of things..
what i learned in the end was that i am exactly the same person i always was... whether i act differently or have changed interests, whether my body changed or voice changed, its all the same thing... i look out at the world through the same eyes
the more i accepted this and just lived with it...the less i worried about whether i was feminine enough or whether my male "habits" were a problem...the better my quality of life..
two distinct personalities is a coping mechanism that protects people...but for the transsexual its holding the person back...
in a gender queer lifestyle I actually think its really important to just be yourself as your feelings are going to shift back and forth and i'm guessing (reine?? is this right?) that these shifts are kind of constant and not in anyone's control...
if a person is truly a blend of two genders then that is still one whole "blended" person..
i'd encourage you to turn yourself in a direction where you can feel good and confident as one whole person and see what happens
An analogy of this is what i see in my kids with our divorce...it makes me sad but one thing they live with is that every single day of their lives they are coming or going somewhere... they are at my exes this weekend...but monday afternoon they pack up and come here for two days...then they pack up and head back to the exes on wednesday...on it goes...they are never just sitting in their rooms and knowing "this is my home" they always have to leave in a couple days....i think this sucks..
and i think its similar to how a person that truly views themselves as two people..you are always coming or going and in my mind you are better off just being home..
Hi,
For my self i am who i am, there never was or has been two different modes as you mean male or female. for myself its allways been male / female there is no difference, or can i seperate them no i cant, my male female is the same theres no way i can do that.
part of being different,thats were its not a set way of thinking of in male then change to female. thats one of the reasons iv said iv never been able to understand men or know what they are about , of cause that may sound strange when i say im made up of both, i never related to or with men,
I dont have the answer & to explain it to those not like us, how to relate with that becomes hard to understand,
I know the term 3rd gender is used, maybe maybe not i dont know, Even though Jos has known me for 39 years you ask her & she will say i dont understand , i just have to accept ( me ) what i am ,,,& Jos has done that, with a lot of heartache, so its not so easy.
So no im not two different people im just one whos different, .
...noeleena...
I have never felt like two people. I knew since I was a very young child that I wanted to be a girl, but was convinced for many years it was just not possible. I now live as a man at work and when with my family but otherwise I live as a lady. Even when a man I am no different except for how I look. In my mind I am a woman and always have been female but I am the only one who knows.
If someone knew you first as the male, they are never gonna truly adjust. Just cause in their minds you will always be John.
You notice that new acquaintances will just think of you as "she" even if they know your TS status.
If you are worried about voice training, don't be cause it will get there. As long as it passes better for woman than man, you will do fine. Voice is one area that there is a pretty sharp line between man and woman. Only bad thing there is - to you it may never sound right. Kind of like no matter how good we look, we always see "him" in the mirror.