Why we so scared to...

Before i start saying whats on my mind, let me say im not trying to ruffle anyones panties( of course some that i own already have cute ruffles in them) or put anyone down.

With that being said my question is why are a lot of us so scared or secretive about being cds? Like of course i understand the SO situation about them not accepting you or losing them to it. But im talking more like why are so many of us in the closet cds? I mean why cant we if we feel like it , put on our heels get all dolled up and go out whenever we please?! Why should we feel uneasy or scared to step out of our house. Even if your not passable , i mean if we enjoy doing something shouldnt we be able to do it. Especially since are girly side is part of who we are. Really whats the worst that could happen? We go out maybe get some weird looks, laughed at or snickered at. But why let that bother us. We are all adults we shouldnt let others stop us from dressing or enjoying what we do. What if when they laugh we just smile and have confidence and keep doing what we do not caring what sociwty thinksi bet they wouldnt laugh or stare anymore cus they know it wouldnt bother us and maybe we would be more accepted right? So in closing all im saying is maybe we should care less about what society thinks and lets all step out of are comfort zone. U never know you might enjoy it. For those of you that already do i give you credit and i know u inspire a lot of us.

But it's not only what we would go through. It's what our families would go through also. You have to think about all the teasing your kids will get. Not even going to think what my grandkids would think of me. What people would think of your parents even raising a boy that likes to wear dresses. Not to mention the neighbors living next to a pervert that likes girly things. What's he going to do to our kids. I am getting braver with my outings. But I'm 55 years old. My kids are grown and moved out. But when they come to visit me I just hope they call first.

On the surface you make a good point. However, and there are always however's, there is a lot more for some people to lose than just their reputation or self esteem. Consider those who could lose their position in the community, which may also affect their ability to earn an income if it effects their employment for those employed by others, or could cause a loss of customers if they are self employed. If one is not out to their spouse, well, they could lose all that as well as their children. Some fear the unknown and that is their decision as to how they confront it or not. I am sure there are a lot of other valid reasons that I am not thinking about right now. For those of us that have the courage and confidence to go out, I would rather think that we are the fortunate ones for being able escape the closet because we want and have no fear of going out, have nothing to lose, or we just don't give a damn if we lose something or not. In the meantime, I think we should be wishing all the rest the best of luck and respect their decisions whatever they are.

You do have some very good valid points. I didnt cover the famiky or kids in my post. Thank you for mentioning that. I do believe you are right about the kids and grandkids. I do have a son abd would not like him getting teased because of something i did. Then again how many children grow up in a gay environment where they have two moms or two dads. Maybe if we all went out more it would be more accepted and less weird? Again this was just on my mind so kinda thinking out loud. Im young and i know some of you thar have been around longer can probably give more reason as to why we are so secretive and stuff. I also dont think we are perverts. A pervert to me is a rapist, or pedophile and many other things not a crossdresser thats not trying to hurt anyone. In society these days what is exactly considered normal?

The stigma that is attached to CDing by people in society who do not understand is probably the main reason why crossdressers are afraid to go ahead and do as they please: as Amanda_P says, you also have to protect your loved ones from harsh, judgemental people.
I hope that One day ... in the future ... people will be accepted for who they are and will have the freedom that they deserve.

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Originally Posted by Cassandra86

...why are a lot of us so scared or secretive about being cds?

why cant we if we feel like it , put on our heels get all dolled up and go out whenever we please?!

maybe get some weird looks, laughed at or snickered at. But why let that bother us.

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We are HUMAN ... and humans have INSTINCTS that protected us and allowed us to survive all these years.

Examples:

We can't put "mind over matter" when our hand is on a hot stove... it burns, it hurts, we respond by moving it.

A female in an abusive relationship is "stucK" there by an instinct that makes her feel SAFER when in the
presence of DOMINANCE ... because a 100.000 years ago, a female with no dominant male - her offspring
probably would not have survived ( needed to be inherently strong in youth, stronger in adulthood to survive
and needed a food bearer to stay alive while young )

There is fear of HUMILIATION, which stems from the fact that not conforming to tribal status quo on rules
you could be cast out .. banished.. exiled ... from the support of peers. Years ago, this would have left us
vulnerable to animal predators, rival tribes, and made it almost impossible to hunt .. resulting in starvation and death.


Then there is the FEAR OF REJECTION, such like if turned down by a female you're asking out
... the world will end. That stems from the fact that if showed to ONE female to be inadequate in some way
your chances with any of the other female were shot, due to an instinct in female called "Preselection" which
makes the guy who has lots of females wanting to be with him, the most ideal mate. They can't help this,
especially when drunk. lol It's nature.

So ... the fear of humiliation, while some can put mind over matter ( and some just have no shame at all lol )
is REAL... and POWERFUL ... and it is there for a reason. If we are shunned, we are less able to survive.


This is why we can't "just do it" ... even in another city where nobody knows us ... though being away HELPS a lot!

Im also curious on the point that was made about not being out to your spouse, and this goes more to the ones that are married or been in a relationship for a longer time. Not coming out or telling them doesnt that hinder your relationship? Can a relationship really grow when its based on secrets? I know i would want to know if my wife had this whole other side to her i didnt know about even if it made us split up. Isnt honesty the key to a good relationship? If your SO doesnt accept you for who you are then are you really meant to be together? I took the risk on coming out to my SO and i felt a lot better when i did. Yes i am happy sge accepted it and not sure what wouldve happened if she didnt. Again im not trying to attack or put down anyone i have nothing but love for every single person on here no matter what stage your at in life. Cus i have learned so much from many of yoy!

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Originally Posted by Cassandra86

I mean why cant we if we feel like it , put on our heels get all dolled up and go out whenever we please?! Why should we feel uneasy or scared to step out of our house.

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There are two types of being out: to everyone you know, or to strangers only. Which "out" do you mean?

My SO goes out on a regular basis in the next town over. She is, therefore, out to strangers and also to some of our more liberal friends, but she is not out to her parents, my parents, her sibling, her nieces, her coworkers, her students, and some of our more conservative friends. She is also not out to her neighbors, since her neighbors know some of her coworkers. She does not go to the grocery store down her street, since she doesn't know who she'll run into. She does not want the people at work to know because she feels (and I agree) that her coworkers would cease to take her seriously, and many would have a good laugh at her expense behind her back. Advancement in her career might also be affected, and there is even the risk of losing a job. Some of her students might think it was cool, but others would be creeped out. My SO does not want her gender to be a distraction in her classroom. And last, my SO has no desire to transition and live full time, so there is no need to expect her parents who are in their 80s, to wrap their minds around this.

My SO does not have children. But if she did, she would not want her children's friends' parents to know, since this might cause the more squeamish parents to not allow their children to come for sleepovers. My SO also would not want her children to be teased at school over their father wearing dresses.

But, if my SO was a transsexual and was planning a full transition, there would be no choice other than coming out to everyone.

There are things about ourselves we choose to keep hidden from people that do not understand and accept.
What is the point in forcing your lifestyle or dressing preference on everyone?
I am out to close friends and wish to keep it that way.I don't feel the need to force my lifestyle on others.

Hi,

Not sure how long youv been around the trans community, for myself some 17 years, so iv seen many people both trans & dressers, And i know many. & iv answered this ? a few times , for many theres just to much at stack to loose & allso does distroys many lives & more so those who are close , & in many case's all over wearing clothes that are for women ,This of cause is mainly with in the western world, though of cause going back in our history , was very different,

This may change some or no one, depends on how one was brought up. As a Scot it would not have mattered what i wore, yes a skirt, = Kilt, to them who dont know, or High land wear, we have woren those for many 100's of years, in Eroupe our men wore dress's or skirts, was any thing ever said ...no...
The Renaissance group im with over 200 members half of them are men & are all wearing dress's skirts & the like, though none are trying to be other than they are, most are straping strong men no wimps there,

yet surprising some are really lovely, im pushing it to addmit that, had you knowing my background youd not hear a good or nice comment concerning ...men... any way's, this is not about that,

When you see our men dressed they do look , sorry wrong word, ...Pretty.... good.... youll get the idear,

One of the reasons men are accepted as dressed is they are not trying to be like us ( women ) that is where its different,

So can men do as my friends do, just dress, not try & be other than who they or you are, thats the ? .

My self i never dressed as dresser's do. though should i , i had no reason to other than when young by my Mom. or for a end of year church do a pantmime all dressed up for the part, in front of 80 people & my mom.

Any way womens clothes as such would not have been aproprate on a building site it was shorts a tee top. & boots, & even then had i worn womens clothes they would have been wrecked . even though i did do building as a woman & still do it was clothes that can or are womens just suitable for the job in hand,

Because of my difference , intersex, i do know what i could have lost family 16 of us, so im very aware what it can do to a family, & over some 19 years, trust me its not a walk in the park,
To wear others clothes, as in crossdressing, can humillate & make you look silly or what ever, being different you can be crushed, & i know what thats like,

as an aside i never wonted to be a woman let alone a man. so i see both sides of this issue,

...noeleena...

Well in my case, I worry about the neighbours finding out because I just don't want any hassle, I worry about friends finding out because I'd be afraid of losing them & I worry about my job because I need to make a living.
It's sad, but society in general is just not as accepting as we'd like it to be.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

There are two types of being out: to everyone you know, or to strangers only. Which "out" do you mean?

My SO goes out on a regular basis in the next town over. She is, therefore, out to strangers and also to some of our more liberal friends, but she is not out to her parents, my parents, her sibling, her nieces, her coworkers, her students, and some of our more conservative friends. She is also not out to her neighbors, since her neighbors know some of her coworkers. She does not go to the grocery store down her street, since she doesn't know who she'll run into. She does not want the people at work to know because she feels (and I agree) that her coworkers would cease to take her seriously, and many would have a good laugh at her expense behind her back. Advancement in her career might also be affected, and there is even the risk of losing a job. Some of her students might think it was cool, but others would be creeped out. My SO does not want her gender to be a distraction in her classroom. And last, my SO has no desire to transition and live full time, so there is no need to expect her parents who are in their 80s, to wrap their minds around this.

My SO does not have children. But if she did, she would not want her children's friends' parents to know, since this might cause the more squeamish parents to not allow their children to come for sleepovers. My SO also would not want her children to be teased at school over their father wearing dresses.

But, if my SO was a transsexual and was planning a full transition, there would be no choice other than coming out to everyone.

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That pretty much explains it perfectly.
For those of us whose eventual goal is not to transition, why put all our loved ones through the hurt. If I lived on my own, no friends no family then sure it would be great, who cares. But I care, I care about the people around me, and regardless if we like it or not, there is a stigma about crossdressing. I could probably take some humiliation and learn to ignore any laughing behind my back, but it would kill me to see my wife subjected to that. She has chosen to accept me as I am, why would I want to make it anymore harder for her than it already is?

Those are the reasons that personally hold me back or keep me grounded, not sure which is true :)

Hi Cassandra,

"What we do in in life resounds forever in eternity" - or something like that! :) From the film Gladiator I think!

We certainly make 'ripples' and those ripples can have lasting consequences. Yes we should move our agenda forward, and there will be beacons who can do this. At my age and stage of life I have too much to lose in terms of the people I would damage as well as the damage I would incur myself. So I choose to express 'Kaz' here and in limited form elsewhere - but I am not 'out' to the world. If I was ever 'outed' I would have to re-evaluate everything, but that is not my personal choice right now. I have too many personal inter-relationships to protect and nurture.

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Originally Posted by Cassandra86

Really whats the worst that could happen? We go out maybe get some weird looks, laughed at or snickered at.

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Pretty naive to think the worst that can happen is getting laughed at. Maybe in your world, but some of us live in the real one.

Hi Cassandra,
I would like to add something to your post, but unfortunately all has been said by this wonderful forum. Becky and Kaz have virtually taken the words right out of my mouth. I really cannot offer more than what they and everyone else on this forum have said. Thank you for your post.
Kind regards,
Di

Because it is still not recognized as a social norm,
I do keep it away from, relatives, neighbors, the local area where I live, except for commuting through the area and my male persona friends.
Get me into new areas and on holidays and Beverley "lives and loves life."
When away getting odd looks and being laughed at would only be a glitch.
That does not happen as I am able to dress sensibly and blend in.
My voice can be a give away but that is rare except during a long interactive conversation.

Sometimes it comes from the years of conditioning we all go through when growing up. We are taught more than our ABC's along the way. We are inducted into the "man" club. We are pushed to be competitive, aggressive, strong, and more than anything not to be different. Even as young as grade school the kids that had some kind of variation were put in a spotlight and ridiculed by the other kids, so we learn fast not to let something show that was not accepted as part of the group. We can logically decide that being different is ok and will not harm anything but the ingrained fear of the group knowing we are different is very strong. Many of us have secrets we never allow most people to know about because of this. As adults this kind of ridicule and ostrosization is less of an everyday thing but it is still in the mind of all of us and is very strong.

Is it fear or common sense? Suddenly being seen by everyone you know in drag would cause confrontation with a great deal of them. Now if I were young in this day and age coming out might not be such an ordeal. But many family, friends, clients and coworkers would be asking me why, and some would condemn the behavior. I have no desire to spend a great deal of time explaining or debating why I like to CD.

To sum it up, my desire to dress full time isn't strong enough to upset life long relationships.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

There are things about ourselves we choose to keep hidden from people that do not understand and accept.
What is the point in forcing your lifestyle or dressing preference on everyone?
I am out to close friends and wish to keep it that way.I don't feel the need to force my lifestyle on others.

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Hi, Tracii! Sorry, but this is a point of view that I take exception to. You'll see it from time to time on this forum and elsewhere in the trans community, and it's a point of view I really wish we'd abandon--that is, this notion that if we live in such a way as to be happy, we're "forcing our lifestyle on others."

I myself have been out in my town for about six weeks now, living full-time as myself. I do my shopping, my other errands, etc., as myself in full view of the whole town, and everybody's been perfectly accepting. But how can we say I'm forcing my lifestyle on others? I would be forcing it on others if I were trying to make them live the same way I do. I'm trans, therefore they have to be trans, too. That's not what I'm doing. I'm doing my thing, and I leave it up to others to live the way they want to.

Note in Reine's post how she said her SO is reluctant to even go to the nearby grocery store for fear of the consequences. This is a serious infringement of one's rights. How many cispeople have to be afraid of doing something so simple and basic as going the grocery store?

Many people on this forum do have real reason to fear the consequences for themselves and their families if they were to come out. When we say that we're forcing our lifestyle on others, we're getting it backwards: they're the ones forcing their lifestyle on us.

And you will see cis trans-haters pretty much admitting it. They don't want to see transpeople, they don't even want to hear about us in the news, etc. What they want is for all of us to be tucked away permanently in the closet so that they don't have to know anything about us. And when they do hear about us, they complain about us "shoving our values down their throats".

We transpeople need to move away from this view that by being ourselves we're imposing on others. We all agree that people should have the right to live as they please, so long as they're not hurting others. By living as myself, I'm not hurting anybody else. And I believe I should have the same civil and human rights as anybody else. I'm not imposing on anybody, and I don't want them imposing on me, either.

Best wishes, Annabelle

It's just something that isn't accepted by a lot of people yet, and we have a need to be accepted.

There's a huge lack of understanding surrounding trans topics in general, people need to be taught about this stuff from a young age in order to change the way people feel about it...although there would be a massive outcry of intolerance masked as "traditional values" if we started teaching stuff like this in school...god forbid people actually start to love rather than hate, eh? lol

"There are two types of being out: to everyone you know, or to strangers only. Which "out" do you mean?"
exactly!! i was telling this to my wife/roomate who came out as gay at the same i time i came out as a crossdresser. She expected me to be loud and proud, but as i told her, outting urself is different for everyone! i dont want everybody to know, just those close to me. i dont even want my family to know, as they live 2000 miles away and my dressing doesnt concern them.

Annabelle I see it differently. I have lived with this all of my life but my family has not. I see no reason to cause stress in their life by forcing them to accept or even know about my lifestyle. And yes, if I were to come out to them I would be forcing them to have the knowlege of this which would serve no good purpose at all. It would not help me to feel better but it would turn their lives upside down. Allowing them to know would hurt them. Now with strangers I am not forcing anything on them. What I do does not in any way effect their lives so doing as I please is doing no harm. So in truth telling my family is imposing on others and would be an incredibly selfish thing to do.

I guess part of my 'purpose in life' is to continue to provide some of the answers to this thread's question, as it seems to come up every other month or so.
Life is simply hard enough for some of us, that we don't need any more obstacles to basic existance. Much of the general public does not like to associate with crossdressers; it makes them uncomfortable, and no amount of our trying to 'educate' them is going to change that. I've witnessed many acts of behind the scenes homophobic behavior against gays, and know that it also happens to crossdressers. You may not see it, you may not hear it, but you will be affected by it, somehow, somewhere, if you are 'out'. Friends turn into ex-friends; and sure, you may think, well, if they feel that way, then I don't need them anyway...until they're all gone. Family too; some just suddenly stop contact with us; others, slowly stop inviting us to common social events. At work, we conveniently get left out of group activities 'by accident'. When it's time to downsize and lay someone off, they find another reason to get rid of us, never the real one. The homophobic mailman accidently misdelivers your bills once in a while, or your packages get damaged just slightly more often than those of other people. Lots of things you probably won't notice, but add up to many inconveniences and problems that you will attribute to random chance or other causes. Oh, possibly the worst? You're considered a sexual deviant by law enforcement, and should a child be missing, you'll be one of the first suspects. Ever download pictures off the net? Are you absolutely sure that every single one of them was over 18 when their picture was taken? It only takes one to get you arrested on suspician of child porn if they can somehow connect you to a internet connection in a backwater town where the concept may include much less explicit things than in your own neighborhood. Sure, you may eventually be found innocent, but that won't bring back the costs of a defense. Paranoid, you think? Nope. It happens. Or suppose you have an accident and happen to be either underdressed or crossdressed? You might be the last one of the group of people taken care of, simply because the rescue workers think less of you or because they're repulsed by you. And unless you can prove that your injuries were definitely more serious than the other people involved, you don't have a leg to stand on legally. The list of problems you invite upon yourself goes on and on. Sure, you may never notice. But this stuff goes on every single day, and it affects someone. So call me foolish, or call me a coward, but I simply don't need any more drama, or problems, in my life than I already have.
Cassandra86 wrote,

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I also dont think we are perverts.

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No, but you're not the one we're concerned about. The rest of society may feel very, very differently.

A few years ago I had an accident and broke one of my front teeth in half. Being that this made me look a heluva lot like "Cletus" from The Simspons, I went straight away to have it fixed. The way they fix this, is that they numb you up real good and take what is essentially a Dremel tool and they grind what's left of your tooth down to an impossibly tiny, thin rectangular peg. They then take the fake tooth and shape it just right so it has a slot into which your new tooth-stub fits like a jacket. Then they superglue it all in place with some special dental adhesive thing.

So when you go for a dental checkup, they have to take the fake tooth off. When they do, it hurts like a mutha***** not because there's a wound, but because there is this mass of nerve endings beneath an impossibly thin shell of enamel that is normally shielded warm and safe beneath the prosthetic tooth. It hurts just from the cold air hitting it ... hurt isn't even the right word it's not really pain ... it's more like instinctual panic. A part of your insides is on the outside when it shouldn't be and your brain realizes this. Your heart starts beating fast, your mind starts racing, adrenaline starts pumping, etc.

To me, my femme persona is very much like this part of me that sits inside my fake tooth. It is an extremely vulnerable, internal part of my psyche. I'm not sure I'd ever be able to be "out" like so many here are, even if I had 100% assurance that everyone in my family would be super cool with it, and that I'd face no repercussions in society or my work life etc. Maybe it's just that I'm a pretty introverted, sensitive person to start with, and so this side of me is like that but even more so.

Interested if anyone else here feels this way about it?

I read with interest the comments from Annabelle and almostalady. Two apposing viewpoints but both valid in my opinion but…….

I think it’s good to keep in mind that life is not all black or white. [I know you already appreciate this girls]

The only answer here is the answer that fits your personal situation perhaps?

If I “force my lifestyle” on my family I will do a lot of damage to them. That’s not them forcing there lifestyle on me that’s just ‘how it is’ the real world.

We have to be realistic here I think.