what defines being 'gay'

I was reading the thread 'Are crossdressers gay' and kind of started thinking of it.
To better illustrated it, I would use myself as example.

Firstly, I do not consider myself as gay, maybe I could have turned out one if I hadn't a very traditional family, as I remember looking at men's 'volume' on early teens. Maybe.
The thing is, even if I repressed at the time, wouldn't I still see men attractive? Which I never really found. I even find gay videos kind of disgusting, really not my thing.

This change completely when I thing of TS (pre-op, pos-op are woman, period.)
I find TS, and girly/feminine crossdresser attractive. Even woman I tend more to the tomboyish and flat.

So, where do I stand? Not straight, but not gay either. Even bisexual, for what I know, it implies feeling attraction towards both 'gender', when I do not feel attraction to men (maybe to d**k, but not men themselves). Usually I place myself as bi-curious. (Would it be so much easier if these labels didn't ever existed to begin with.)

Does anyone goes/had gone to the same kind of confusion? When one area ends and another starts?

It's much easier than you think. Put aside how you're dressed. Are you sexually attracted to males, and if you are an adult, have you either acted upon that attraction. If the answer is yes, then you might be gay. If you aren't attracted to men, regardless of how you fantasize, then, no.

I believe straight and gay/lesbian are the two ends of the spectrum and the countless variations of bi are the middle ground between the ends. I consider myself semi bi as I have no romantic attraction to men and my sexual desires are very limited, however the fact that my interest is not exclusive to women means I cannot consider myself straight IMO. There are many gay people who have come from very traditional families and I believe you only turn out gay at birth.

You can consider yourself curious at this point. There are so many labels it will make your head spin. Everything from straight, to gay, many in between and even some who dont like either sex. I say find what makes you happy and go with it.

I've always thought that gay meant "attracted to the same gender". If you don't find yourself attracted to men, yet you find yourself attracted to crossdressers and TS individuals, then perhaps what you have is a fetish. (and there's nothing wrong in that)
As for the question you posed at the end of your post. Nope. I've only ever been attracted to women regardless of context.

Holi,
Kim's answer is correct, being attracted to the same sex !
I can see where your confusion comes from and members have commented before that their sexual preferences become blurred when dressed. I guess if you accept that we are born with certain traits in my case part female then something in our brain could be triggered from our dressing connection.

In my case I would use the term male lesbian (I still don't know if this is a recognised term, but it does appear to fit ) I have normal interest in women and the dressing just intensifies that. If I were to transition I would still feel the same way, so what would I become then ?

It is overly simplistic to think of being gay in terms of only sexual attraction. In the broader sense, it includes with whom you form emotional relationships, how you align yourself politically and perhaps a few other things.

Society at large thinks purely in terms of sexual attraction because that makes it less complicated for them and it paints us (I say "us" as I am bisexual) as crazily driven by our libido. That has the effect of making us easily dismissed and something other than human. It's a real short step from there to "we don't exist".

This is a serious question? To me, there's gay and there's homosexual. Homosexual means you're attracted to people of the same sex as yourself. Gay is more of a political affiliation -- it's the culture as well as the sexuality. But that's my personal take, not official by any means. I know many men who are attracted only to persons who present female -- whether they actually are female or they're males who look convincingly female or even males who are just very fem. There is no word to describe them, though I do like the term "hereroflexible" that I head in a movie one time -- they are attracted to people who seem to be the opposite sex.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

It's much easier than you think. Put aside how you're dressed. Are you sexually attracted to males, and if you are an adult, have you either acted upon that attraction. If the answer is yes, then you might be gay. If you aren't attracted to men, regardless of how you fantasize, then, no.

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I'm going with Kim's answer, this is about sexuality and not presentation. If the person with whom you have relations is of the same sex, then you are somewhere on the scale of homosexual or bi, no matter how dressed, IMHO. As for gay being to do with political persuasion, where did that come from? There are many examples of people from both left and right wing political persuasions that have either revealed or been exposed as gay. Happy to name them too if requested, but Peter Tatchell is normally your man for that in the UK :heehee:.

Rebecca

Being Gay means being exclusively attracted (sexually) to males. As for where "straight" ends and "gay" begins it's the first time you olook at a guy and think "I'd like to see him naked".. and that edges you half a millimetre into the "bi-curious" section of the spectrum.

As for the TS attraction, I'm guessing that most of your experience of "hot" TS girls is from pornography. These are almost exclusively women in transition, FFS, Implants etc, and often in that industry to fund the cost of a complete transformation. Being attracted to these women actually points towards heterosexuality, it is the feminininty you are attracted to, the body shape, the smooth skin, the pretty face, the gorgeous hair etc. All it really says is that genitlia has very little to do with attraction.

There is a difference between "I want/Dont want a c**k" and "I don't care if she has a c**k or not" Nature designs most guys to be attracted to women, attraction to TS girls in an advanced state of transition is merely nature doing it's thing.

Being Gay only really exists if you subscribe to a binary view of gender. You hint at it yourself.. Take a semi-passable CD in a cute dress with heels and long silky hair, and put her next to a tomboy female, short hair, no makeup.. jeans, t-shirt etc, from the back, almost every "straight" guy in the world would pick the CD as more attractive.. and even from the front, a lot of them would still say the CD was more attractive.. many of the rest would be too embarrassed or too angry that they'd picked the CD from the back and/or so worried about what that choice might mean for their sexuality that they would initiate a testosterone fuelled denial.

If you've ever thought about possibly one day being with a man, then you would probably fit under the label of "bi-curious".. If you have only ever considered being with a "hot" TS girl, and you find even CDers who are no more passable than you completely unattractive, then I suppose you could use the label trans-curious.

The only way to KNOW if you're gay, is to sleep with a man and see if you like it. if you do, and you can then find a man who you can connect to emotionally and want a relationship with.. then you're bi. If at that point you find that you're not really attracted to women anymore, then you're gay. But the fact you like trans-girls so much suggests that you'll never go beyond bisexual regardless of how you're presenting.

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Originally Posted by reb.femme

As for gay being to do with political persuasion, where did that come from?

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As I said, it's a personal definition. In the general society at the moment gay and homosexual are considered synonyms, but I know people who are homosexual that I would not personally consider gay. Gayness (to me) carries with it the "gay culture" which includes its own political correctness and its own set of expected behaviors, its own set of shameful behaviors as well. That's what makes me compare them to a political affiliation -- because there are a whole host of behaviors outside of sexual behavior that are implied by the term gay. You don't have to agree. ;)

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Originally Posted by AbigailJordan

The only way to KNOW if you're gay, is to sleep with a man and see if you like it.

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I'm pretty sure many gay people (and, yes, I'm dropping back into the gay=homosexual definition) have known they were gay before they ever had a sexual experience. Just as most heterosexuals know they're hetero before they ever have a sexual experience.

Kim pretty much nailed it but if you're still unsure, I suggest doing some Internet research. Not on crossdressing websites, but on information or medical sites.

When you find the one special person that fulfills you.
You miss them when they leave, and you celebrate when they come back.
Together, you find pleasure in the simplest things, like watching T.V. cuddling.
You rush to get home to them, and linger while leaving.
You share a silly text, and silently giggle all day.

Does it really matter what sex they are?
Or what label you give it?

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Originally Posted by holi

what defines being 'gay'

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There's a quick and easy way to know. Go to the boardwalk in the summertime. With people walking back and forth in their bathing suits. If you find yourself looking over the guys from head to toe, and thinking to yourself, 'he's really good looking', even when there's a smokin' hot chick right there in front of you, you might be gay.
If you go out during mardi gras, drink a lot, and wake up naked in the morning with another guy, you might be gay.
If you practice oral sex by seeing how far you can keep a banana down your throat, you might be gay.
If you say 'fabulous' a lot, you might be gay.
If you know every line from 'Waiting to exhale', you might be gay.
If you shower at the gym after your workout, and glance at the guy next to you and think, 'Gee, nice pen!s' you might be gay.
If most of the songs you sing along to requires falsetto, you might be gay.
You have a tab at the tanning salon.
your dvd collection is mostly musicals.
You have more videos of your cat than anything else on your phone.
There are regularly other men naked in your house.
Women ask your opinion on how to decorate their house.
You get a basket from Sephora for Christmas.....and your birthday.....
You own chaps but have never been near a rodeo or even a horse.
Your dog fits in a tote bag.....YOUR tote bag.
You know the track list of all Liza's CD's.
You overhear that this weekend there will be a Frazier's greatest hits marathon on tv, and you don't think of any kind of sports.
You refer to your dentist as the tooth fairy.
Your playlist is filled with Justin Beiber songs.
And....your best friend slinks into work limping, you ask why and when he says he got rear ended last night, you don't think of a car accident. Ba dum bump KSSSHHHHHH!

But seriously, if you regularly think of kissing guys and/or having sex with guys and think it might be fun, you just might be at least a little bi.

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

As I said, it's a personal definition. In the general society at the moment gay and homosexual are considered synonyms, but I know people who are homosexual that I would not personally consider gay. Gayness (to me) carries with it the "gay culture" which includes its own political correctness and its own set of expected behaviors, its own set of shameful behaviors as well. That's what makes me compare them to a political affiliation -- because there are a whole host of behaviors outside of sexual behavior that are implied by the term gay. You don't have to agree. ;)...

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If we're beating to death standard definitions and proposing our own descriptors at will, I revert to Lewis Carroll's Humpty Dumpty to explain. 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'


Rebecca

You can haul out the Humpty-Dupty meme if you want but I will argue that "gay" is what's called an "overloaded term" meaning it's pretty Humpty-Dumptish to begin with. Sometimes "gay" means male homosexual as in LGBT. Sometimes is means gay culture as in Gay Pride or Gay Agenda. There is a gay culture that has certain expectations of its members in terms of political thought and action. There's even a "gay accent" which you can hear in centers of gay culture.

So, when someone asks "What defines being gay?" You have to ask "How do you mean that?" If the question is what defines a male homosexual, the answer is actually pretty cut and dried and I don't believe there's a lot of controversy. If the question is what defines a member of the gay culture (if you accept that one exists) then it's a different question that I don't think has a pat answer yet.

Are "gay people" represented by the "gay flag" -- the rainbow flag that represents LGBT individuals? If so, then transgender people are gay under that definition which provides a very uncomfortable ambiguity when the first question a crossdresser runs into is "are you gay?" Of course, what makes it uncomfortable is the overloading of "male homosexual" onto "gay." That's when you run into situations where the lack of clarity causes you to say communication-blocking things like, "I'm gay but I'm not gay." Which is a clear signal that Humpty-Dumpty is in the room. ;)

I think what some of the other girls have said is a good simple baseline. At one end you're exclusively attracted to the same sex and the other end the opposite sex. I reckon pretty much everyone falls somewhere in the middle regardless of how they present theirselves. I've spent alot of time wondering if I am straight/gay/bi and the only conclusion I can come too is I'm not 100% gay. I've had one gay experience when I was in my late teens with a close friend we never went all the way but it was an enjoyable experience but one I don't think I'd want to do again. I've given up on labels esp when it comes to dressing I always thought I was a TV but after looking into the subject I find there's a multitude of different labels it's confusing as hell. Now I just stick with 2 labels I'm Justin the man or I'm Melanie the women. xxx

Holi, when I began dressing at age 50, I wondered when I had suddenly turned gay!?:eek:

I think we all have fantasies about being a woman with a man. And I have found some fem looking dressers to be attractive. However, those r just red herrings that thro u off the track. U need to concentrate on sex itself!:o

What finally helped me decide I wasn't gay or bi, was sex organs. I'm not the least bit interested in male body parts! So, straight after all.:tongueout

I don't see the rainbow flag as being the "gay flag", the fact that transgenders are represented by the rainbow flag does not mean LGB people are transgendered.

Simple, I like cool & interesting people. I don't care much about the package. I have had serious love interests who got called out PUBLICLY for being 'fat' or 'ugly' when speaking about them. We went to see 'La Cage Aux Folles' in NYC and she dressed to the nines in a slinky black dress and after she got a 3 hour hairdo and makeover. People were still looking at her trying to figure out if she was 'just' a drag queen.

This woman with a PhD and double degrees in Physics and Astrophysics. You might as well only read books with pretty cover art. :/

- MM