HRT in Stealth Mode?

So, this question may annoy some, sorry if it does...

But has anybody successfully done super low dose spiro or super low dose spiro+estrogen and remained in stealth?

I'm currently seeing a gender therapist and think she would give me a letter if I tell her I've decided I want to do hrt...but the thing is, I'm still very much in stealth mode with my spouse.

I know hrt is nothing to play with, but I can't help wondering what it would be like to try it on for size - just at a very low dose to start. See if it helps with dysphoria with the hope that any physical/mental changes would be small enough, especially to start, that I could manage them or stop hrt (exerting will power I know) if/when the time comes.

In a perfect world though - any changes would be so small that they would remain unnoticed such that I could experience the calming effect of female hormones but still keep my life intact.

I'm early 40's and am just getting desperate to integrate my male life with my hidden female life. Don't want to do a full transition - just want to experience being more female in the short term and if possible, long term too.

Anybody been able to do hrt in stealth mode for a time?

stealth usually means life post transition without people knowing your transsexual experience.

hrt will have a feminizing effect, even low doses over time. hiding that from a spouse? good luck.

I'm going to answer as an opinion only.
You can try HRT. It's an excellent diagnostic tool. If you are not female brained you will hate it.
With ANY dose HRT, do it with an endo's supervision. You can only stay on a spiro only diet for a short time cause you body MUST be dominant in one or the other sex hormone. Spiro can bring your T down to the point that without added E, you are in grave danger.
A lot of people have done a lot of HRT stealth. You may lose your libido/erections, with may require some explaining.
The moral question of not telling your spouse is yours alone. IMHO, if she found out it would be game over immediately. This is not like admitting you wear panties. This is the biggest choice you will make in your life, and excluding her in your thinking would probably end badly.
You may run into some gate-keeper problems. May. They may not agree with your choices.
Once again, my opinion- Trying HRT 'experience being more female in the short term' just doesn't seem like a good idea. HRT is for those that already are female.
Good luck.

Totally agree with Paula and Arbon , I tried plan to do a kind of stealth HRT for a year but the changes are becoming too obvious to hide even on what is consider an entry dose.

Thanks so much ladies, really really appreciate your advice. Paula, I very much know what you mean about using HRT as a diagnostic tool, that is part of the attraction. Feel like if I don't try it, I'll always wonder whether it is something that my body would latch onto or reject. If believe I am female - but before I upend the universe, am wondering if hrt can give me one more reassurance that I am what I am...

Tough stuff for sure - but really appreciate your great advice!

My therapist suggested that I might want to try cross sex hormones at a low dose for three months or so to see if it would help with my GD. With a low dose the physical changes can be delayed for a while.

People who worry about the effects of low dose HRT are living in a different world then me. I was on a max dose for quite awhile before I saw any real changes at all. Losing my testicles made the biggest difference. Believe me, blockers may block but the real feminization starts after the testes have left the building.

Having said all of that, I think HRT is the least of your problems right now. You are in a tough place and you need to dig deep to find some answers. You're married, so she has a right to know who you are, but you don't even know who you are, so I would say the first order of business is to find out.

Please forget stealth. Living with your wife, you will add a great big layer of guilt that you may or may not be able to live with, but do you really want it. My wife knew I was trans, but was not aware of the devastating effects the GD was having. I had to tell her and explain the benefits, and she agreed. Going on three years now. Consider moving in steps as others have mentioned. Find out who you are, and if you can be honest about it with your love. Who you want to be can wait a bit longer.

Barbara

I'm 58, and after 8 months the physical changes are definite. I can hide under loose shirts, but topless in front of a loved one? No way!

You are younger, right? The younger you are, the more effective HRT will be. You are also likely to like the effects and want to go to full dosage. Stealth is not a good idea, IMO.

For what's it worth, I have been on HRT with full knowledge with my wife. After 4 years of HRT it is apparent of the effects including my wearing 40DD bras with my natural breasts. But I am still regarded as male and go by my birth name John.

I think it is a really bad idea to hide your dressing and your being on HRT from your wife. With me those two items are known to everybody, including my mom and people in my church.

As for me the testicles aren't doing anything much since my testosterone levels are quite low.

I'd just caution to be careful, stop, and think.... Whatever you do or don't do will have long-term effects.

I'd definitely bring the wife into this - let me break it down.....

You tell her..
She bolts - how is this result different than you don't tell her, and she finds out, is pissed, and then leaves?
She stays - yay, success, still, prepare for a very difficult road long-term

You don't tell her..
She finds out anyway - and is pissed, and leaves (she probably won't stay if it goes down like this)
She never finds out - yay, but is so very very unlikely (hide effects from public - possibly ...from wife..never)

Summary: Your presentation to the public is vastly different from living with a mate and what she will observe.

In any case, good luck

Lots of good advice on the relationship front, I think, so I'll confine myself to the HRT points.

Anti-androgens and estrogens don't work in isolated fashion, or even like "normal" drugs that interact. Sex hormones regulate a lot of things in your body. They do it through a complex web of mechanisms - biofeedback paths, chemical transformations, genetic transcription, etc. People can - and do - spend a lifetime researching even very narrow aspects of the endocrine system.

So the idea of taking a bit of this and a small dosage of that, because this one has THIS effect while that one has THAT effect is, well, complete nonsense. Cross-sex administration further ups the ante on the complexity (not to mention the unknowns from a research standpoint). You can't predict outcomes and frankly, can't really attribute actual outcomes directly to any component of the HRT regimen or any number of other factors.

Applying the usual phrase, that translates to "hormones are a crapshoot."

Of the various approaches you've suggested, the one that makes the most sense to me - DEPENDING - is a low dose of an anti-androgen. (I.e., with no supplemental estradiol.) Depending on what? On your testosterone levels. You stress calming effects. Few things will produce that faster or better than lowering your T. But you can't completely tank it. As others have indicated, you have to keep a reasonable level of a dominant sex hormone to preserve your health. So, if your T is quite high, you can likely lower it to good effect ... Assuming your doctor agrees. But even with that, you risk an unknown level of feminization. Why? See complexity comments above.

Chemical bottom line - low dose approaches are common, but are substantially based on misunderstandings of the endocrine system. On the other hand, for most of the people, most of the time, very low dosages won't do anything at all. Honest therapists and doctors will admit that they look to placebo benefits for lots of patients on these regimens. On the THIRD hand, though, you cannot rule out triggering problems, even with minuscule dosages ... Even with monitoring.

MY bottom line - don't screw with your body chemistry unless you have to.

IMO it's totally unethical to try to hide this from your wife. While it's your body and the final decision is yours, the decision affects both of you and she has every right to be informed of what you're doing. She also has every right to decide to leave if that's what is best for her.

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Originally Posted by AlisonWood

I'm still very much in stealth mode with my spouse.

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Only my opinion here, and based solely on my experience and realtionship, but that is the one person I would say not to hide this from unless you absolutely do not want things to work out. Keep in mind that spouses often need to go through the same process as those of us who decide to break the gender binary. There are all the stages and feels of denial, anger, mourning, fear, acceptance, anxiety, etc. Those all take time to get through. Being open at the beginning allows you both to go through this together. I was "out" to my spouse for nearly two years before I gave HRT a shot (very, very, very low dose at that time). Since then things have escalated as they are apt to do. If I had jumped into HRT at the beginning before coming out to my wife... I don't think we would be together now.

Otherwise, hiding changes from everyone else (other than a spouse that may see you naked) is not too bad; however people will start noticing things about you changing... but most won't be able to put their finger on what. The only people that seem to be able to figure it out with me are those I haven't seen in a year or more. Last week I had one female co-worker that I hadn't seen in a year come into the office, see me, stop and loudly exclaim "OH MY GOD!" Considering I'm not out at work, it wasn't a great thing to have happen, but daily people don't see the changes since they are slow to occur.

Hey Girl,, What do you really think HRT does? lol,,, Hell you could be on a full blown max out dose and it still takes FOREVER,,, Don't sweat it ,, But tell you one thing is For Sure,, You ain't hiding this from no wife,, Don't worry bout having to hide your little boobies,, Don't worry about most anything with it, But the only thing sexual about being Transsexual is the Name,,,lol,,That my friend is a Fact,, An what you gonna say when you can't find Big Jim or the Twins without shaking them back down for 5 min,,, Just saying,,lol,,, You ain't gotta go round Blabbing to everyone in the world, But unless your wife is Blind or you 2 just don't get around each other much Forget it,,

I WAS on a low dosage regimen for quite a while. My Spiro dosage was about a fifth of what most people take for well over a year. It is still only about half of what many people take. I started Spiro a month or two before estradiol. THAT (E) dosage was the minimum available for about six months and then still low after that for that first year and a half. None of this was out of a desire to be on a low dose regimen but was due primarily to potassium problems. As a result, for a long time my T was a lot higher than it should have been. Fortunately, the last increase in estradiol finally managed to wrestle that down to normal female levels in conjunction with the Spiro

Contrary to Stacy's comments above, there were noticeable changes in the first year. So you never know.

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Originally Posted by LeaP

Contrary to Stacy's comments above, there were noticeable changes in the first year. So you never know.

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I think this falls under YMMV. :)

Like Misty, I don't understand this at all, and I personally don't think it's a good idea. That said...

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Originally Posted by ariannavt

I think this falls under YMMV. :)

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YMMV, but more importantly, Your Mileage is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PREDICT.

Anybody who starts HRT should assume that changes will become real, and visible, within several weeks or months. That may or may not happen, depending on a variety of factors, but you have no way of knowing.

For another point of reference, my skin had begun to change noticeably within weeks, and I had potentially visible (certainly while nude or in contact with a partner) breast development at 2 months. This was on what many would consider a low-dose, and in fact my current dosage is still a good bit lower than what many other women end up taking.

I cannot comment so much on the spouse dilemma you're facing, however I can speak to starting on a low dosage of anti-androgens and/or estrogen, as this is my route and I am currently sill on this path.

I started with the anti-androgens only last year around August. The dosage was normal to any other anti-androgen dosage level for HRT. I did notice change such as body hair reduction, skin softness and lower libido, but most important for me, better mood. These were not drastic though, very subtle, no one knew. I continued this until December when I started on the lowest dosage of estrogen. My MD told me that this would really do very little in terms of changes. At the most, she described, I'd experience more of what the anti-androgens were already doing, and after a year I may experience some tender breasts. This was in comparison to what other patients of hers had experienced.

Well the little bit of estrogen has done more than I thought it would so far. My breasts had become tender within a month. The anti-androgen effects on skin softening and body hair reduction was highly amplified now. Friends have noticed changes to in my skins appearance and they tell me they see a 'glow' that women get. I am looking younger too, and my libido is way down. Once again my mood has definitely improved even more as well. I am planning on increasing my estrogen to normal HRT doseage levels this summer. After the seeing changes of just a small does I do believe that I'll see very quick changes.

My changes compared to what other patients of my MD's have experienced are different. You could see changes quickly with this plan or, you may not. Everyone has a different experience. I don't think it's a bad way to start in to anti-androgens first and then after a few months introduce a low level of estrogen. Just realize the results are not the same for everyone. Any generalizations of results are just that, generalizations.

Look, I don't get the low dose thing either. I understand it when done for medical reasons (e.g. as Lea had) but otherwise it's like, why would you want to be half complete? But then I also don't quite understand individuals who are on HRT etc. but don't live full time as their true gender. I couldn't wait to go full time once I was on HRT.

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Originally Posted by AlisonWood

In a perfect world though - any changes would be so small that they would remain unnoticed such that I could experience the calming effect of female hormones but still keep my life intact.

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If your trans* then your life isn't intact. How can it be when who you feel you truthfully are is so different from who you appear to be? Thats sort of the point.

Sort yourself out Alison. Then talk to your wife. Until you've done that forget taking hormones, they are just going to make your life even more complicated.

Thanks so much for everybody's advice! I'm really grateful for it - it's hard to see when one's in the middle of it, but I know those of you who recommend caution and honesty are right - even if it's hard to see.

Thank you!!!! Hugs, Alison

Caitlin Jenner's first wife left her because her HRT was making physical changes. You can only do stealth for so long. Your wife will definitely notice, especially with T blockers.

Totally! agree

I don't know what HRT will do, because I have no first hand experience.

But, my wife gave me all sorts of $#!^ when she discovered that I was crossdressing. I think she may have left if I had been taking hormones.

I think everyone believes that the first questions are:

Are you gay?
Do you want to become a woman?

I don't think that you have plausibly deniability on the second question. If you admit to taking hormones, she will likely assume that you want to be a woman. How do you think that will go down with your wife, or do you care. However she takes it, it would seem to be much worse if you are doing HRT without even discussing it with her.

So, you can hide the crossdressing, but don't hide the HRT, IMHO.