Julie continues to write very thoughtful pieces for Kandi's Land and I am so pleased to call her a friend.
This one got tremendous feedback.
https://kandis328772669.wordpress.co...e-on-facebook/
Thank you Juls!!
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Julie continues to write very thoughtful pieces for Kandi's Land and I am so pleased to call her a friend.
This one got tremendous feedback.
https://kandis328772669.wordpress.co...e-on-facebook/
Thank you Juls!!
Intelligent post by a smart person.
I personally don't understand the need to draw lines. But I can see that some people need to identify themselves with some labels, such as trans, CD, whatever. I don't criticize it, but I think that we would be better off without any labels. Categorizing may be useful for scientifics and doctors, much less so for our community (hey, that's another labelling of sort here), and I couldn't care less about being called TG, trans CD, heterosexual, CIS, etc. because it doesn't define my female presentation anymore that it does my male self. Society and humans will have evolved when they will be, at last, educated and comfortable with the concepts of spectrum and probabilities rather than binary categorization and absoluteness.
Kandie,
Julie's comments do raise some thoughts .
Considering where the line is drawn and stepping over it doesn't just relate to the TG community , I can see parallels with problems women live with , the lack of confidence in how they look . It's really more about social pressures , from comments on the forum it's sometimes obvious how different social pressures are between the UK and the US . Many of the labels Julie mentions are partly needed in an attempt to explain ourselves to society , " I do this because I'm ....... " . We also live with often false fears of what the public might think , so at time we do overthink our situation , it's more of a problem in our heads than it is to the general public .
I find I only use labels in conversation with other members of the TG communtiy , I can't remember the last time I had to explain myself to the outside World .
At the end of the day we need to consider who sets the line we fear to tread over , is it society in general or the trans community we come from ?
I love what she has written and agree with it. I still don’t know what I am and part of me says I am just me and that is OK.
I am struck by the fact that this parallels so much of human activity - politics, the R thing, race and nationality. The need to define who is in and who is out. I think it all stems from fear at root.
There is a poem I love -
He drew a circle that shut me out-
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle and took him In!
― Edwin Markham
Thank you Kandi for posting the link. I go back and forth between "I'm Me and that's all I need" and "Hey everybody, am I OK? Do I belong?"
Sad how those on the margin of society are often internally self-marginalizing.
Another winner for Julie. Excellent.
The battle of the labels isn't inherently bad. Language requires some kind of classification to understand what is being communicated. One person from a very different land asks, "What is that thing that is like a red cone with a bunch of leaves on the fat end and tiny yellowish spots all over it?" Other person, "Oh, that is called a Strawberry." A label, a name can be really useful.
But there are a lot of different kinds of strawberries and the description by the first person is of that particular strawberry. The problem arises when that particular strawberry becomes the ideal model for all strawberries. Trouble is sure to follow unless all strawberries look similar to that strawberry. The Type or the Stereotype is born and anything that doesn't fit the definition is automatically something else. Well all of that is pretty obvious. Yet we do that all the time. Not bad; not even harmful. Until we start basing truth on the model our brains use to help identify things. The model becomes the reality.
This in turn leads to a great battle in our brains. In short, the amygdala detects something different and apparently unknown. It turns on the fight or flight response useful for saving your life when you come across something that doesn't fit your model. That creates an "Us vs. Them" dichotomy of some degree. If the prefrontal cortex (PFC) can't match it to something in memory and tells the amygdala to "cool it" then the "Us vs Them" remains active and the amygdala remains excited. The PFC keeps the warning alert active.
In the "Us vs. Them" world the differences between what is seen and the model rule the reaction. Those are easier to spot than looking at all the similarities that might lead to a conclusion that this unknown thing is actually harmless and safe. We need to draw distinctions to produce single words or phrases that define what we are talking about. Sadly, those distinctions are powerful drivers of the instinct for self preservation and thus really useful in the wild. But to know the similarities requires us to get better acquainted with this unknown. The amygdala says, "Don't do that. It is dangerous because it is different." One part of the PFC says, "I agree. Run." Another part of the PFC says, "Wait. It is similar in some ways to the memory model. Tentatively investigate. It might not only be safe but beneficial. Stay alert, but learn more."
Thus the more we look at differences and base our interaction on those differences pretty much alone the stronger the "Us vs.Them" rules us which leads to a bit of tribal behavior. There are a lot of other things that go into producing that behavior that Julie describes in her fictional conversation which, unfortunately, is not always that fictional. And it results in discrimination, prejudice and cherry picked definitions that do nothing but divide us into groups with solid boundary walls between us. Look beyond the scary differences until you really know that you should be scared. Be cautious but try sugar spray instead of pepper spray. It really does work to dissolve the walls we build and form a caring commonality. There are a lot of different kinds of strawberries, but each has to be what they are. Yet they all taste like strawberry. Enjoy the diversity and learn from it.
Good read. It resonated with me as a lowly DADT which is so far down the pecking order that it is lower than whale dung. Seems that everybody is more legitimate than I am on here by merit of my hesitance to jump in head first regardless of the consequences.
Kandi, thank you very much for posting. It was a great read.
That is a good question to ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa
Absolutely. So the question is: who is using labels and with what intent?Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenM
Labels are used to sort things. Sorting things is necessary for making categories. And making categories is useful for building a model of something, people, the world, whatever. The problem is, first, that the exact definition of a label will generally be your own, and shared by 0% of the rest of your neighbours/members of the club/whatnot (even if they may be 100% convinced that they share 100% of the definition with you). The TG definition threads are a good example of this problem, as they generally have better chances of being closed by a moderator than reaching an agreement between parties. If you make a model for your identity based on a particular label, and somebody comes in an says "I fit this category", you will start applying your own and unique definition to that person, and there is a 100% chance it won't fit. Then you will drop one criteria or the other, because you don't deem them important. And at that point, draw a line. And the newcomer will be in or out, based on some course of thinking that has more to do with a lottery than a rational reasoning.
Even if you reach a good enough agreement on a label's definition (like pointing to some scientific reference document that is accepted by the large majority), a label is just a tag, and any human being provides enough real estate for more than one. I can be CD and TG, TG and trans, CD and gay, etc.
And of course, that individual may be meeting the conditions of each label to a varying degree (and I'm not even mentioning the multi-dimensionality of some). I may be very heterosexual and a little gay, I can be very much CD and a bit trans too, I can be all these things, and a lot more, to any degree, without any permission from any member of these forums. Dinosaurs had teeth, not birds, until someone split a rock in the bed of a dried river and inside was the engraving of a little being with teeth and feathers. Did it have feathers to fly, or just keep warm? If not, can we call these feathers? Could these teeth kill, chew meat? Was it a bird, a saurian? Was it cold or warm-blooded? We may never know. But one thing is sure. If this little being subscribed to CrossCladers.com, s.he would enter neverending debates about which section s.he should post to. If Archie (the name of the little being) posted to the 'Saurian to Bird Crosscladers' section, he would quickly be lectured about her/his not-so genuine feathers bought on Lavariver.com, or her/his problematic ability to return to the convenience of her/his Saurian self anytime s.he wants, ruling and thumping the Earth again. Some Birds, for whom the path to deciding to take on the Bird label was a long and complicated road, may take offense of a newcomer taking that same label so lightly. Archie may then question the exact requirements for the Bird label, and all kinds of experts would gather to the table with different takes on the subject (and like all experts, would never agree together, but never be wrong either). The thread would be closed shortly after, and Archie would return to the freedom to be whoever/whatever s.he wants to be, and forget about labels.
Interesting thoughts on labeling, I suppose some people need that. Ive been active on and off here, coming here helped me I cant tell you how much when I first started. We live in some trying times it seems with all thats going on. I know I need for my own sake is some of what I am at least every once in awhile. Ive been around and met some people similar to me and some not so similar. Im just me in the end and to me what I need for happiness is all thats needed and I dont feel I need to label anyone else for my own benefit, its a shame that some do. Something Ive learn over the years is people dont fit neatly into labels or categories and its a shame that some people react or feel that they should, nothing is truly black or white with many shades in between.
I think in general we don't need a label other than our name. However other times it can be useful in letting others in the community know.
The only thing that really gets me angry is when someone thinks they are better than anyone else.
I don't mean better legs or better hair I mean who we are as a person.
When people do not stand together, shoulder to shoulder, the aggressor picks off the weakest one by one. By the time they get to you, you're all alone, and there is nobody left to stand with you. Don't be so complacent that there are no aggressors out there looking to do harm to your cause.
Excellent discussion, DianeT and good examples of how it often goes. Shelly and Mykaa make good points as well. The reality, in my opinion, is that there are few boundaries anywhere. They do seem to appear when we examine the collection of Us at more or less the same moment in time. But the fact is we live in a world where time adds an additional dimension that is more difficult to incorporate into our definitions and classifications. To some extent the battle of the definitions and classification which is often pretty dynamic and can get nasty is a sign that over time we are changing rapidly perhaps as a result of discovering more and more unique aspects of ourselves as well as similarities we never noticed before. If you stand back a ways and stop looking for distinctions only and also look at the similarities that unite our behavior form I think you will find it is very much like the colors of a rainbow, a spectrum.
We like to think there are distinct color bands and rainbows are often represented that way. And in fact the different colors are distinct because of the quantum processes that cause the colors to separate. But look at the boundaries between the colors and they are fuzzy and exhibit transitions. The process of splitting the colors is not perfect but it is close enough to produce bands in the spectrum.
If you look at us as a spectrum in space (the various forms right now) and time (the changes that occurred in the past to create the groups we inhabit today) one can get a feel for how important considering the differences and the similarities as a unit can be. It all becomes multi-dimensional. Interestingly, you can do exactly the same thing with the vast majority of cisgender people. And when we apply the fine-toothed comb classification we apply to us to the cisgender people, you come up with lots of different groups. Thing is, with both us and them, the classifications we devise have very fuzzy boundaries and reveals it is a spectrum for them and us and everything else. The groups we detect are a consequence of our selecting specific criteria to distinguish differences we think are important. And we think are real because we can separate them. In a sense the distinctions are real because we have created them. But the reality is that we all blend into each other and form something much like a rainbow - distinct color bands BUT with fuzzy boundaries that show we actually blend into each other in complex ways.
How do you deal with it? Be yourself for today and recognize that the rainbow is changing and where you will be tomorrow will only be similar to where you are today. The categories are cherry picked illusions caused by how we perceive things much as we see separate colors in a rainbow and represent them with distinctly bounded bands.The representation is not the reality but only the reality of our limited perceptions. A rainbow has distinct bands with indistinct transitions between the bands. Many people that are very similar will occupy the bands, but somebody has to be in the transitional zones or they would not exist. They are the connectors and are just as important as those that are in the bands. Together we form a spectrum that stands on its own merits.
My desire to find out which label I fall under is so that I will know how to frame a revised talk with my wife. How can I approach her about this if I can?t even tell her exactly what I am, CD, TG, or some other end of the spectrum? True, labels are human constructs for communication purposes and she will ask questions. Aside from serving to better frame the conversation with my wife I don?t care what anyone else thinks. I already know that I am at the bottom of the pecking order here on this forum as a DADT. I accept that and understand why some would consider us the red headed step children on this forum.
I'm going to repeat what I'd said in other threads about labels, based on popular experience and my own, birds of the same feather fly together, this section of crossdressers.com is full with crossdressers posting for different reasons but most of them are judt dreaming about living as a real woman but can just dream or have some experiences even traveling, I mean, fly dressed, for most of them is about dressing but at the same time to pass (as a woman and are happy when being called "mom" so being accepted) so they say have a femenine side, for some is bigger and stronger than others, some live a fake life lying to everybody and from my viewpoint even lying to themselves, but they already crossed to the other side, tasted and like it but for different excuses, they can't stay at this side for me they are trans, that for me means to trans-form, tran-sition, independently of the the trans gender or sex.
Some of those accept that reality that being a croosdresser means already crossed and decide to stay, we risk everything for the true, the real us, the transparency and honesty, and let me tell you it is worthy.
So we transfer our post to the transexual section because we're looking to fly with birds like us.
I said once I'm not longer a croosdresser because I find out that be myself was no just to dress as the opposite sex that I wasn't born but to live as that opposite sex and to dress allows me to live in this side, be accepted, not always, but we learn that that price is better than live in the darkness of the closet and just dreaming and satisfying our life with lies and candies from time to time.
For me is not about labels, but labels help you to know who you are and look for your pairs that wear the same feather and is wonderful to fly with them and from my position on the air I can see a bunch of sisters dreaming about flying like I do but lying to themselves excusing about family, jobs, etc but they are just like me but not enjoying the reality and "satiafaying" themselves with a fake reality and the label of crossdresser..
Identity as always being a problem for human beings and labels help us to find our way, our path...
I just say...
Devi
I liked her post when I read it, and still do. As a friend put it, "On the trans scale I am more than 1% but less than 99%. Brenda
Star, what a sad thing to say. Don't let anyone underestimate you. Be proud of who you are, CDer, DADT, trans, whatever, who cares, it's your life and no one else's business here. Leave the pecking order to the geese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star01
P.S. I love red hair. It is actually beautiful.
You are welcome! I wish I could take credit for writing it, our Julie Slowinski, one of my contributors, wrote it.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayshave
Julie certainly is!Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeT
@ Star,
Please try not to feel like there is a "pecking order". Everyone is different, does things different, is on a different journey, and it's ok. Re-read Diane T's post; remember, it's your life.
There are all types of ways to do things. You do what is best for you.
DianeT is absolutely correct and so is Char. Do not ever feel you are less of a member here then anyone else. My guess is that as a group there are more DADT members, including me, then any other group. We are all important members.Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeT
My apologies to Kandi and Julie for drifting from the thread.
Absolutely. LOVE. ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Thank you for posting Kandi.
Thank you Kandi. Thank you in particular for pushing me to explore these issues and to have this discussion with the community. And, thank you, especially, for being a great friend. ❤️Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandi Robbins