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I saw something here that reminded me of something when I first started dating as Nicole. I haven?t had that many dates so maybe that is why ? but then as well as now, a bit better now, I had to really concentrate on being the girl. I have found it to be the case with the males and also the couple of females I have dated.
Has anyone else experienced the same?
What does "concentrating on being the girl" entail, exactly?
I must confess I never went on a date in which I was en femme. I keep toying with the idea, tho.
I think I know what you mean.
Not that I have dated men as I haven't, but it always seemed that something was missing in years past when I would dress. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time. Now that I'm retired and we have had all these Covid restrictions and I've been pretty much full time for a while now I think it was just that I never let myself relax into my female role. I just never fully opened myself up. I don't know how else to put it but it seems to have been the one thing keeping me from actually "feeling".
I didn?t realize how hard this would be to put into words. I mean acting like a woman does on a date ? let the guy take the lead a bit more ? hang back a bit and let him open the door for you, pull your chair out, etc.
I had to consciously think about that more than I had imagined.
It is possible you might be overthinking it.
The things you listed are legitimate items of etiquette, but I'm not sure even women are so concerned with them nowadays. In fact, I believe some women feel some of these "rituals of chivalry" are somewhat antiquated and even a bit patronizing, charming though they may be. I mean, to some, we're gravitating dangerously toward "I'll have the steak, she'll have the salad" territory.
Most of the things said here will probably fly out the window once you're on the actual date, so my suggestion is that you just be yourself (your fem self) and have a good time.
And no kissing on the first date!
Nicole: "acting like a woman on a date" is no different than acting like a man on a date. Of course, it might seem strange if you've been acting out the same script (on the same show, episode after episode) in male mode. But the question hangs in the air: is it all an act? And, if so, are not the scripts we read from simply behavioral stereotypes? I think Patience was hinting at the same thing in her post above. Think of the question(s) you asked. It sounds to me as if you might actually be feeling as many women do; after all, don't many women on dates ask the very same questions of themselves? Should I do this/that? How should I behave? What will my date/onlookers think of my behavior? In the end, you will have to do what they have to do: commit to a line of action and let the chips fall where they may.
Cheryl: You really hit the proverbial nail on the head. At least for me, relaxing into that female role as fully as possible is the most exciting part of being en femme. We crossdressers are so enamored of the physical mirror because it often validates our craft as well as our vanity; but the mirror rarely makes us "feel" anything and, even when it does, it does so all too briefly, necessitating further repeated visits to it. To feel anything, you have to look within, be completely honest with yourself and ask the deepest existential question: who am I? If you can accept -- without reservation and without judgment -- who you are in that moment (e.g., I am a woman right now), then you can really start to enjoy yourself by moving beyond self-doubt, self-criticism, self-sabotage. "I feel, therefore I am" is so much more rewarding than "I dress, therefore I am."
"U have nothing to fear but fear itself"!:thumbsup:
Anyone who dates a trans does so because they like trans. If they wanted a woman they'd date one. :battingeyelashes:
Dating someone new is hard enuff. Because of your and their pre conceived notions and expectations. In such situations it's difficult enuff just being yourself. Much less trying to be someone you're not!:doh:
I have been out with both and when i em enfem ... I am just me.
have not dated a guy though ever
There's a lot that goes into "being the girl" on a date. A lot of it has to do with attitude and presentation, not necessarily with etiquette. For example, in a recent thread about "passing" someone mentioned posture and gait. That's a big part of it. There's plenty of space between walking around like a dude in a dress and prancing around giddily like our friend Phox on Youtube. Embrace it! When you are on a date with a guy, theres a 98% chance that the guy is totally turned on by the fact that you are a CD and not a ciswoman. It's clear to them and to the world that you/we are not trying to fool anyone. We are simply ourselves.
That said, he doesn't want to be reminded by our presentation that we are, essentially, a man in a dress. That includes anything from posture to attitude to hairy arms and hands. So you present and carry yourself in a way that is subtle yet confident. There's no shame in this game! Many guys I have dated say that they love how much care I put into looking feminine and attractive.
There are small cues in the way that we walk - again, posture and gait - and the way that we occupy space. A simple example: When a guy gets into the passenger seat of a car, he usually swings his left leg into the footwell, sits down, and then brings his right leg in. When a woman gets into the passenger seat of a car, she usually will back her rear end into the seat bottom while facing the open door, then pivot towards the windshield while bring both legs in together. Such a subtle thing makes all the difference in the world. It sends a message about who we are and what our relationship is to the space that we occupy.
That's just one example.
Thankfully not a problem I worry about. I would never date a man, or go out in public with one while dressed. I'm not that kind of girl.
I do sympathise with you, though, and think I understand. After years of being alone I've begun seeking a partner (female) and I have exactly the same fears and questions. I keep feeling that I've been 'out of the loop' for too long and am unsure about everything.
Well, see, when a non-CD'ing hetero couple get together, there's a guy -- but that's not you. And then, there's a GG -- which *is* you! :wave2: :confused2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience
Yeah, you're both there for companionship, love, sex, whatever. And both might be a little nervous... "What should I wear? Will they like me?" Blah blah blah. :D
So, there are some commonalities, of course.
However, there are all kinds of things involved, when you're "playing a role" that you don't normally play -- if ever before. If you're a hetero guy, well, you've been the guy when it comes to dating/relationships. You're used to that. That's what you've been doing all along.
Well, little do you know, there's a whole *other* thing going on, on the GG side of things! :battingeyelashes:
Years ago I went on some dates with an openly-gay male, while I was totally en femme. We kept it to LGBT places... Yet I still had to walk in the "vanilla" part of the city to get there. It's not like there was a "gay section," per se... Just a regular city, with LGBT bars & clubs peppered throughout. So, out amongst the muggles -- while all dolled-up, on a date with a man.
Luckily we always kept it after sunset. :p
It was interesting & fun, for sure. It's like the whole inverse of what you're used to.
And you're not there to have a GG get more interested in you, or whatever. Nope. You need to get a *guy* to get more interested in you... And we respond to some different things. :devil:
I never felt like I had to "concentrate," really. Some of it I had to maybe keep in the back of my mind, lest I forget. But if you just let yourself go & ease into place, you'll find it coming more natural & spontaneous to you -- or at least it did with me.
And yeah, there were times where it was like, "Wait, did I just really do/say that?? That's something that's only reserved for GG's!! :eek: "
Anyway, here's a thing to keep in mind... You're not dating a hetero cis-guy. At the very minimum, he's at least a bit bi, ya know? ;)
And as such, I feel like there's quite a bit of leeway & wiggle-room for you in the female role. The guy is probably gonna cut you some slack -- at least on some things. He knows you're not a GG... And he's not expecting one.
I suppose it's all about finding the right match at the right time in your life. :)
Nicole,Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolegurl
We haven't had the years of upbringing were these things were more part of our daily lives. It's part of the process of gaining those femme mannerisms, the walk, how you stand, learning to smile more while making eye contact. Women empathise with each other more. There's a whole raft of non verbal communication going on that we often struggle to master. It does come with time but it can also be fraught with danger as it can be too easy to slip into an overly camp style, a caricature of femininity. But hey practice makes perfect so that's a reason to keep trying.
Ok, I get this part...Quote:
Originally Posted by ellbee
No problem there...Quote:
Yeah, you're both there for companionship, love, sex, whatever. And both might be a little nervous... "What should I wear? Will they like me?" Blah blah blah. :D
So, there are some commonalities, of course.
However, there are all kinds of things involved, when you're "playing a role" that you don't normally play -- if ever before. If you're a hetero guy, well, you've been the guy when it comes to dating/relationships. You're used to that. That's what you've been doing all along.
Well, little do you know, there's a whole *other* thing going on, on the GG side of things! :battingeyelashes:
Years ago I went on some dates with an openly-gay male, while I was totally en femme. We kept it to LGBT places... Yet I still had to walk in the "vanilla" part of the city to get there. It's not like there was a "gay section," per se... Just a regular city, with LGBT bars & clubs peppered throughout. So, out amongst the muggles -- while all dolled-up, on a date with a man.
Luckily we always kept it after sunset. :p
It was interesting & fun, for sure. It's like the whole inverse of what you're used to.
And you're not there to have a GG get more interested in you, or whatever. Nope. You need to get a *guy* to get more interested in you... And we respond to some different things. :devil:
Exactly! Between the fact that one will be constantly aware that one is presenting as a female and that leeway one is sure to get because everyone will be aware one is not an actual biological woman, I reckon there is enough for one to have a good time and feel quite the lady without cluttering one's mind with such a fabricated concern, unless one is prone to having male relapses mid-date, such as inadvertently fixing the fella's car or accidentally beating them at arm wrestling.Quote:
I never felt like I had to "concentrate," really. Some of it I had to maybe keep in the back of my mind, lest I forget. But if you just let yourself go & ease into place, you'll find it coming more natural & spontaneous to you -- or at least it did with me.
And yeah, there were times where it was like, "Wait, did I just really do/say that?? That's something that's only reserved for GG's!! :eek: "
Anyway, here's a thing to keep in mind... You're not dating a hetero cis-guy. At the very minimum, he's at least a bit bi, ya know? ;)
And as such, I feel like there's quite a bit of leeway & wiggle-room for you in the female role. The guy is probably gonna cut you some slack -- at least on some things. He knows you're not a GG... And he's not expecting one.
I suppose it's all about finding the right match at the right time in your life. :)
I am more curious as to how the agreement to go on a date happenned/ happens in the first place. Also, what expectations were set in advance to avoid misunderstandings and how. Any insights on that?
Patience, I can only speak for myself, but in my case? We didn't start dating as strangers... Co-workers first, then friends (outside of work) & former co-workers, then dating & sex. We took quite a casual while getting to know one another.
He was a drag queen, though wasn't as active as he used to be. Outside of drag? He certainly knew how to be a gentleman! :battingeyelashes:
So, we had all that going for us. I dunno, I think I probably verbally shared with him my CD'ng, and said he wanted to see me all dolled-up sometime. Eventually he did, but we probably just hung out at his house that first time? :strugglin
We went out a couple nights one Halloween weekend, and that may have been the first time I went out with him in public like that? I dunno, it was years ago, LOL.
It was just a progressive kinda thing. Same with the flirting & physical contact & what-not. Was like dating someone -- though this time not a GG, but *as* a "GG-substitute"! :confused2:
Probably not for everyone, as the fantasy may prove better than reality.
But for me? I kinda enjoyed it. :o
Haven't dated a guy since. I may or may not again someday, who knows.
I am married so I don't "date", men or women so I can't speak from experience on that, but if you want to "be the girl", I suggest practicing being a girl as much as you can. Observe women and dress and act as they do. Think of yourself as a female whenever and wherever possible as you go about your daily life.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolegurl
That way, when you go out on a date as a female, "being the girl" will come naturally.
Not all men are going to do all that stuff are they? I never pulled a chair out for the woman I lived with for 14 years. She didn't expect it and it didn't occur to me that I should.
The woman I married tried to train me to be a gentleman from the 60s but it didn't seem to take. Remember when men had to get out their lighter whenever the woman got out a cigarette?
I've had men that wanted to take me out and treat me in this manner but I haven't gone out with any of them so far. It sounds too romantic to me! Anyway, if you really feel like a female you shouldn't have to act the part.
Years ago when I dated I tried to be the guy I thought she wanted. That never worked out. Even if I fooled her for a while eventually the real me came out, and that wasn't who she wanted. I finally learned to just be me, and if she still likes me then she really likes ME.
I've never dated a guy, or dated en femme, but it seems to me the same would apply.
I think I know what you are trying to say.
Like Patience said,Don't overthink it.
Kristi also makes a good point. Watch other women and their mannerisms, and how they sit, walk, ect.
Between those two things you will hopefully find a happy medium where it will come naturally to you. You can practice these things when you are at home by yourself and a full length mirror helps too, or taking videos of yourself to watch later.
That being said, after many years most, but not ALL of these things come naturally to me, especially if I'm comfortable around those who know me. As for dating, I'm bisexual but attracted to men more than women and I'm currently dating a man, but being nervous and self conscious on a date is normal for both genders.
Whether you wish assume the traditional roles that women have, ( which is my preference also) or you prefer more equal and/or progressive dating, is up to you. If you are comfortable talking to him it may help to let him know beforehand in a nice manner, or you can play it by ear.
As far as him holding the door, pulling out a chair, ect. I wouldn't worry too much about those things since they seems to be a rarity these days, but a guy that does sounds like a keeper to me! :battingeyelashes:
Be safe. Be you. Have fun, and practice, practice!
Actually, it's the reverse for me; I've felt like I was supposed to be a girl since childhood (after being told that's was what I was supposed to be). I learned to 'act' like a normal guy, in order to keep my female type feelings secret, and also to keep from getting beaten up or killed by the homophobes of the world. Many years of 'acting' like a standard issue guy, and I just got really, really good at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marissa Q