you know what held me back for so long?

in accepting that is? Shame. Emabarrasment. But mostly (misplaced) shame. I suspect this is what is at the root of both sides of the issue for those of us who belong to the TG community (and as an SO I consider myself a member).

So where does this shame come from I ask myself? From our upbringings? Our parents? Society?

At any rate that shame held me for too long in it's grips. It took time to come to grips with that shame. It took time to understand that my own shame was affecting my darling Carin. It was a relief to let it go finally. And in it's place I was able to put pride. Pride for my Carin and her courage in becomming whole and complete. Pride in being a strong couple regardless of gender identification. Love in abundance.

Thoughts?



Louise.

Louise,
I think it is part of the same shame you felt for Carin or any other Cd. That we as Cd's feel in talking or letting our loved ones know.
Is it our upbringing, parents, society or a combination of all three. Which i think is the latter.

:2c:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carlacd

Louise,
I think it is part of the same shame you felt for Carin or any other Cd. That we as Cd's feel in talking or letting our loved ones know.
Is it our upbringing, parents, society or a combination of all three. Which i think is the latter.

:2c:

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:iagree: absolutely!

And, I would also like to say, Louise, that I applaud you for having the courage to set that shame aside and allow your love for Carin to overcome it. :hugs:

Pride is a good thing, but it can hold us back.

Thanks for sharing.

Big hug!

SandyR

Shame, embarrassment, guilt, jealousy.......they all come into play. And it is all due to our societal upbringing. Boys are supposed to be this way. Girls are supposed to be that way. Since the 60's we've seen women gain much greater acceptance in the male world but it is still highly unusual for a male to be accepted into the female world. And all we want to do is have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG

"At any rate that shame held me for too long in it's grips . . . (i)t took time to understand that my own shame was affecting my darling Carin. It was a relief to let it go finally. And in it's place I was able to put pride. Pride for my Carin and her courage in becomming whole and complete. Pride in being a strong couple regardless of gender identification. Thoughts?"

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Louise: the first thought that comes to my mind is "a double" b/c they hit me at the same time, and one exists off of the other! First, Carin is indeed so lucky to have someone like you, and, second, you are a very intelligent lady -- empathetic and sweet, yet adamant when apropos, articulate, and with incredible critical thinking and analytical skills!!! I know it goes without saying that Carin knows how lucky she is to have you, just as I know how lucky I am to have my wife (Val)!!!

Carin is so lucky to have someone as wonderful as you by her side Louise. :hugs:

I think shame entirely comes from outside ourselves, and it's not a real thing. It's built from fear and misunderstanding, and society uses it as an effective tool to keep people in line. The only thing is it damages us as people, it keeps us from being the glorious and beautiful creatures we are inside.

Good for you for recognizing it and turning your mindset around! :hugs: :love:

"Shame"

I think you are a wonderful woman and a great example. Shame can be a difficult issue for people like us to work through. Double that when the rest of the world (including the people closest to us) chooses not to associate with us because they are unwilling to share our pain. Kudos to you for choosing to take that step. The world needs more compassionate people like you in it. :hugs:

We are all a mirror to one another. We either heal together, or suffer together.

In a pure sense, shame is nothing positive, only negative. Once we are in it's grip, it's difficult to break loose however. We have to consider just how much shame is based in reality and how much is based in perception amd myth. The myth that something else is better than whatever is considered shameful. If we turn it around and take control of it, we can turn it into a positive learning experience. Don't forget, sometimes we have to hurt before we feel better. In any case, we exercise our freedom of choice and can either continue to be ashamed or pick ourselves, dust ourselves off and move forward. I prefer the latter as I'm sure you do as well.:happy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShuShu

Isn't it all in perception?

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You are right Shu Shu, it is.:happy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kerrianna

I think shame entirely comes from outside ourselves, and it's not a real thing. It's built from fear and misunderstanding, and society uses it as an effective tool to keep people in line. The only thing is it damages us as people, it keeps us from being the glorious and beautiful creatures we are inside.

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This reminds me of a local news item that I saw a few years ago.
I was in New York and on the morning news, they were interviewing two twenty-something men from Kenya, Africa. The two men were in NYC for the big marathon.

So the reporter says, "And so, how do you like the Big Apple, New York City?"
The two young men reply that they've been walking around the city and can't get over the size of the buildings.

The reporter then asks how the people of the city are treating them. The men talk about the wonderful food and the many nice people, that they've met while walking around.

Then they tell the reporter, that there was one strange thing that bothered them. They said that many people kept staring at them.

The report asked them if they were wearing anything unusual or very bright colors, the men said no. After a few more questions, the reporter said, "Well, you must have been doing something unusual!" The reporter asks the men to describe exactly what they were doing.
The men replied, "We were walking along, looking in store windows and holding hands, like we always do."

Aha, the reporter exclaims, that's it, you were holding hands! Men in NY don't go around holding hands! No wonder people were staring at you.

The two friends looked at each other, with an expression of hurt and puzzlement, then they explained.

"In our village, when you have a best friend, we have been friends since very young, you show your friend, that you love him. When we meet, we hug each other and hold hands wherever we go. You must hold hands, to show your friend, that you love him and want to keep him close. All boys and men in our village, who are friends, hold hands."

The reporter asks them if they are Gay. After a brief explanation of what Gay is, the two men laugh, and say, "No, we are just friends."

Bingo!!! Same here.... Shame and embarasement because its not what we are supposed to do... And once I got over that hurdle... Everything changed for the better!! Well put!!

Love Karren

the preceptions that we grow up with some times take a long time to get over and after we learn to accept our selfs the rest of the people in the world become easer to acceptt
and life is better:hugs:

susie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG

in accepting that is? Shame. Emabarrasment. But mostly (misplaced) shame. I suspect this is what is at the root of both sides of the issue for those of us who belong to the TG community (and as an SO I consider myself a member).

So where does this shame come from I ask myself? From our upbringings? Our parents? Society?

At any rate that shame held me for too long in it's grips. It took time to come to grips with that shame. It took time to understand that my own shame was affecting my darling Carin. It was a relief to let it go finally. And in it's place I was able to put pride. Pride for my Carin and her courage in becomming whole and complete. Pride in being a strong couple regardless of gender identification. Love in abundance.

Thoughts?



Louise.

---

My only thought is, and with Carin's permission, that I want to hug you and thank you for your wonderful example of love and understanding. It is people like you who make this world worth living in.:love:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lovely Rita

My only thought is, and with Carin's permission, that I want to hug you and thank you for your wonderful example of love and understanding. It is people like you who make this world worth living in.:love:

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but I do appreciate the wonderful comments!



Louise. :love: :love: :love: :love:

Quote "but I do appreciate the wonderful comments!" As well you should. you hit the nail right on the head. I wish I could plant that seed in my wife's head, and a whole lot of other people for that matter....

:happy: What an interesting and wonderful post. Louise, you already know what a gem you are, so I won't continue showering you with praise, although you certainly deserve it!

Pride/shame/concern - whatever you call it, I think a lot of wives and CD'ers ourselves are overwhelmed at times with the "what if everyone found out" thing. It's like, "Oh no! The world will come to an end, we'll be thrown out of every organization on the planet and distanced from our friends... our children will be taken away by the state." :eek:

We tend to be overly dramatic about this issue I think. If a husband and wife are together on something like this, what possible harm can the outside world do even if they find out? Ultimately, the most important person in the world is your spouse, and if you're happy with them and they're happy with you, everything else will work out fine.

Pride's fine as long as you're a lion, but in the real world, I think it leads to a lot more problems than it's worth. Take care and may you continue to be the happiest little couple in the world - it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks anyway, does it? :p

Randi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Randi

:happy: What an interesting and wonderful post. Louise, you already know what a gem you are, so I won't continue showering you with praise, although you certainly deserve it!

Pride/shame/concern - whatever you call it, I think a lot of wives and CD'ers ourselves are overwhelmed at times with the "what if everyone found out" thing. It's like, "Oh no! The world will come to an end, we'll be thrown out of every organization on the planet and distanced from our friends... our children will be taken away by the state." :eek:

We tend to be overly dramatic about this issue I think. If a husband and wife are together on something like this, what possible harm can the outside world do even if they find out? Ultimately, the most important person in the world is your spouse, and if you're happy with them and they're happy with you, everything else will work out fine.

Pride's fine as long as you're a lion, but in the real world, I think it leads to a lot more problems than it's worth. Take care and may you continue to be the happiest little couple in the world - it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks anyway, does it? :p

Randi

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just ask Carin!!! At any rate I should have articulated my thoughts more clearly. I am now taking great pleasure in who we are as a couple and as a family. Is that better than *pride*?

visit our family at http://www.rainbow-family.org.

It's a pretty cool family if I do say so myself, lol. (Our newest arrival, a 15yo girl is not in the front pic)


Louise.

Louise

I agree wholeheartedly. The central issue around crossdressing is shame and guilt and that is true of both the crossdresser and the SO. Everything else about crossdressing is secondary and really nothing more than normal quibbles between couples about time, money, shared interests etc.

If you can ditch the shame then crossdressing becomes a big NON-ISSUE and the idea that it can break apart relationships seems utterly stupid. If anything it is an opportunity to move closer together.

I hope you can keep repeating your message wherever you go as it is inspirational and insightful. Too many make excuses and avoid the central issue by blaming others. Change must come from within but first you have to recognize it for what it is before you can tackle your own internal issues.:hugs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Satrana

Louise

I agree wholeheartedly. The central issue around crossdressing is shame and guilt and that is true of both the crossdresser and the SO. Everything else about crossdressing is secondary and really nothing more than normal quibbles between couples about time, money, shared interests etc.

If you can ditch the shame then crossdressing becomes a big NON-ISSUE and the idea that it can break apart relationships seems utterly stupid. If anything it is an opportunity to move closer together.

I hope you can keep repeating your message wherever you go as it is inspirational and insightful. Too many make excuses and avoid the central issue by blaming others. Change must come from within but first you have to recognize it for what it is before you can tackle your own internal issues.:hugs:

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to keep the message out there!


Louise.

Actually I don't think it is shame and guilt. It's more being umsure tyhat I look like awoman and can pass easily enough. I don'r think that any of us wants to be outed when out and about. One great thing about having your SO's help is that the critical inspection by a GG (and they are so perseptive, aren't they) can give us such great confidence about ourselves. If I ever got the OK from her, I would never have any problem going out as Dawn. I do go occassioally but the trhought is always in the back of my mind that the next person who looks at me is going to know that I am a man drssed in a dress. Also, being out with a woman would certainly make any of us more comfortable with ourselves.
Dawn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG

in accepting that is? Shame. Emabarrasment. But mostly (misplaced) shame. I suspect this is what is at the root of both sides of the issue for those of us who belong to the TG community (and as an SO I consider myself a member).

So where does this shame come from I ask myself? From our upbringings? Our parents? Society?

At any rate that shame held me for too long in it's grips. It took time to come to grips with that shame. It took time to understand that my own shame was affecting my darling Carin. It was a relief to let it go finally. And in it's place I was able to put pride. Pride for my Carin and her courage in becomming whole and complete. Pride in being a strong couple regardless of gender identification. Love in abundance.

Thoughts?



Louise.

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Louise,

This was a wonderful post that honestly choked me up a bit. I'd be willing to bet that 99.9% of the TG's on this board know exactly what you mean about the shame thing because most of us spent a lot of years going through the same thing. Most of US had to work through the feelings of shame, some of us are still working on it. Don't feel at all bad that you had to go through some of the same head trips we did.
From your posts, I would say that your Carin is a very fortunate person. I see a lovely family in the pics you have posted, and it is obvious she struck gold with you as a kind and wonderful person. Your gonna need a body guard if you ever meet a large group of us because I suspect we all want to give you a great big hug and say "thanks" for giving us all hope that there are decent people out there like you who will some day make a huge difference to how people perceive us.

Kim

:eek: Holy smokes! Thanks for the link! Louise, that's really your family? Did you guys adopt all those kids or something? If so, you not only win the most supporting wife award in the universe, but you deserve a medal of honor from the President, both houses of congress, and perhaps even the Pope!

God bless you and your family Louise, you are truly one of the most remarkable people on this forum - and that's saying an awful lot! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Randi

:eek: Holy smokes! Thanks for the link! Louise, that's really your family? Did you guys adopt all those kids or something? If so, you not only win the most supporting wife award in the universe, but you deserve a medal of honor from the President, both houses of congress, and perhaps even the Pope!

God bless you and your family Louise, you are truly one of the most remarkable people on this forum - and that's saying an awful lot! :D

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three bio, six adopted. a few with special needs 9both emotional and developmental). Great gang of kids, I adore them and they are a ton of fun most days.


Louise.

I generally erase most of my tracks after using the internet. To make it quicker to bring this site up, I leave the m-f opening page in my history folder. I have a new "opening page" now. I hope my wife stumbles across it. Thank you for being here, Louise.

Amy