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Sorry folks some of my posting is dissappering: this first one I do not fully agree with I started way before puberty http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/...ingtheUrge.htm
This one decribed the different level of CDing http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...thytg/help.htm
This one has some very interesting links http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ytg/essays.htm
Very interesting! I'm going to check all that literature on the website out and read it more thoroughly.
Here is something I noticed relevent in my life:
What Causes Crossdressing?
Most likely the combination of a genetic predisposition and developmental factors play a role. The genetic disposition may include a high level of sensory and emotional sensitivity and a gentle or "sweet" disposition. The genetic factors may make such boys more susceptible to family life experiences that promote crossdressing.
These family dynamics are sometimes summarized as "the more mother, and the less father, the more female identification.' According to the classical psychological view, and 'ideal' environment to promote development of crossdressing would be:
1. A close positive bond between mother and son in the first years of life.
2. In interruption of this bond (perhaps by the arrival of another child) before the boy has matured past the need for it.
3. An absent or emotionally distant father; a threatening or antagonistic father; or a father whom for some other reason the boy is unable to adopt fully as a role model.
My mother was very very very close to me from birty to at least 6 years old she would spend a few minutes in my room when she tucked me in at night singing songs with me and helping me wind down for bed. When I was 7 my sister was born.And my father owned a company and worked till 3 am in the morning alot and was never home except on the weekends. So that formula might have something to do with me being a TS girl, other than my genetic predisposition.
The first article The Dark Side of Cross Dressing: Staying Balanced and Keeping Yourself Under Control By Karen Murphy talks about the dark side but not about keeping yourself under control. I can relate to a number of things, and as I try to control my own involvement, it just becomes a rant and a depressing article.
One of the recurring thoughts I have is, "Am I not more than my gender?" As one who has been smack dab middle in the "Pink Fog" this keeps coming back to me whenever I start to obsess about CDing. I was hoping that that article might have had an answer to that, but no, it just trails off.
I'd like to know who Karen Murphy is and why that article is sprinkled around the Internet.
Thanks for posting that, I think we need to hear all sides of the story.
Love, Tracy
This page really disturbed me.:sad: I think it's a bad approach.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...thytg/help.htm
My mother is just begginning to accept me as a TS.
She called me a woman for the first time yesterday. And we went shopping together and I bought a whole bunch of femme clothes. Night Gowns, Dresses, 5 pairs of jeans, 4 tops.
[SIZE="3"]You know... the three examples Miss Tessa points out:[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Reminded me instantly of how they used to say about how someone "becomes" gay. :([/SIZE]Quote:
1. A close positive bond between mother and son in the first years of life.
2. In interruption of this bond (perhaps by the arrival of another child) before the boy has matured past the need for it.
3. An absent or emotionally distant father; a threatening or antagonistic father; or a father whom for some other reason the boy is unable to adopt fully as a role model.
That was a little frustrating to read,with so many assumptions and painting people into categories,polls,it seems the author has a problem with differences in society.I'm glad I don't have to waste my time worrying about inconsequential surveys to justify being at one with me and being happy.Wanting to dress doesn't have to be a big deal,it can be just simple fun.I don't have the desire or need to wonder"why" anymore.
Should I Talk With My Son?
If the boy is young, it seems reasonable for a mother to gently tell him "little boys do not wear girls clothes." If she feels inspired, she might explain that dressing up might seem fun, but that one day the boy will discover that as a man he is called to far more important and wonderful things.
Ohh please!
Far more important and wonderful things... the way that some people write and discuss the whole CD topic just do so from the 'far side of the fence'. Yes some of the article information that Curse Within' posted the links for could make some sense to some.
None the less it was worth the time to read yet another viewpoint.
I swear child molesters and murderers get a better rap that crossdressers in society, althought they are dealt with accordlingly they have more rights!
Sometimes I think that people who aren't crossdressers just don't understand and try different ways to understand. I've always wanted to crossdress and it's not because of my upbringing, it's just who I am.
I think accepting that is an important first step to accepting myself.
I don't blame anybody for who I am.
Thank You DD.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
[SIZE="3"]You know... the three examples Miss Tessa points out:[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Reminded me instantly of how they used to say about how someone "becomes" gay. :([/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Tessa
OK, yes, they are no longer used as [poor-outdated] examples of how someone "became" gay.
But it seems they have had new life breathed into them as a way to figure out CD's.
Doesn't matter that they were tossed a long time ago, seems everything that is old becomes new again.
So the question is, how long do we have to deal with that line of thinking before it is once again tossed out [or moved on to someone else]?
Sounds sooo much like me!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Tessa
Thanks for the links. The essay on childhood and family dynamics by the "Texas professor" (unnamed) was quite funny. Put enough numbers in tables and most people's eyes will glaze over and they'll nod and say "yeah, lots of evidence".Take the trouble to read the numbers and you'll see there's nothing conclusive about anything there. It all points to the fact that CDing "just happens". Not a helpful conclusion but it's all we've got.
The Karen Murphy thing on the dark side of CDing was quite depressing - I guess that it can happen like Karen says, but she manages somehow to make it sound really sordid. We are better than that.
I cannot get past the fact that it is wonderful to be two people.
Twice in fact, one inside and one outside, depending on what is worn outside.
~Samm
The problem starts when people start approaching our behavior scientifically, and want one theory and definition to fit all of us, so we can be categorized. Unfortunately it won't work; there are so many different combinations of reasons that there is no 'one size fits all', and no stretch of the imagination can ever twist the logic enough to make us all fit into one box. The folks who wrote up those web pages may have themselves 'pegged', but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone. I'm guessing that like everyone else in the world, they need to feel that there are lots of others similar to them, and so they just assume that is the case.
I think the comparison to Tomboys is interesting, and the fact that they are accepted better than girls like us. I do not believe being a Tomboy had anything to do with bra burning in the 60's however, I remember lots of Tomboys from my childhood. I always liked them, even then I realized that they were the mirror image of me.
I read that Karen Murphy article a bit ago while searching the net for answers, it was around the same time as finding this site......:)
I also read a very interesting scientific article recently (if I can find the linky I will post it) which has dispelled the myth of being cured.....Because according to the article people who crossdress are born with a genetic difference to people who dont crossdress. The study was done testing however many CDs and non-CDs, and apparently the scientists could tell who the CDs were without ever meeting them or knowing anything about them. :heehee: Guess that's why we can never truly give it up?
So if anyone wants to try and cure us, they'd need to become genetic scientists and pioneer a new type of science. :evilbegon:
Off hand I'd say the author isn't a crossdresser.
I found this article eerily reflected my own opinions and thoughts. For myself it describes much of how it all came about for me - despite being girly as a small kid, puberty and the onset of sexuality definately cinched matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by curse within
[From the article]
"Well, the party line in the CD community is that cross dressing is healthy and even therapeutic. It is practiced by ultra-sensitive men who are lucky enough to possess "feminine" souls. CDs dress because it gives their inward female psyches an outward manifestation. Under this view, all problems connected with cross dressing stem from social intolerance. Society is bigoted. If the world were more accepting of human differences and distinctions, and less caught up in arbitrary and nonsensical gender roles, cross dressers wouldn't have any problems at all.
I don't buy the party line and that makes me a heretic."
I would have to say I agree with that last line. Of course, there is an entire spectrum of gender, but for many we are just locked in a cycle of habitual sensual feelings we can't escape.
We could argue over these points for a millenia and we'll never have a definitive answer because the experience is different for everyone. If you want to know about the dark sides of crossdressing, its origins/causes, its cures, look to yourself. Review your own past and explore your memories with an outsiders eyes. I know that for myself crossdressing is mostly sexual, and I could hardly care less because its just how circumstances worked out for me. It is a dark, sordid thing, and to some level a perversion, but its in the past, and presently I don't take it to obsessive levels.
And try to avoid falling back on the 'its genetic I can't help it' excuse - as humans with the gift of free will we are able to decide our own fate - if you crossdress then that is your own choice.
For a child they are the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
If these situations are being used to wholly explain why TG/gay children are created they this is highly unlikely but if they are deployed as one of several factors which create a greater chance of an "abnormal" behavior becoming established then they look sensible enough.
The problem is really people wanting a straightforward cause and effect explanation when in reality there are numerous forces working subconsciously in the background that leads the child down a different path from normality. Some forces push the boy away from masculinity, other forces pull the boy towards femininity.
[SIZE="3"]Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
Forums (hopefully) temporarily deleted a response I had in this thread when someone asked if those quotes might be true. Basically I stated they could be for any one individual but to look at as the sole "cause" would be impossible.
So much of our lives is made up by numerous factors that change, shape and manipulation our thoughts and opinions that stating any one element caused a lifestyle outcome is like saying one shower too many caused a lifetime of dry skin.
The problem those theories had with regards to gay men is the same problem it has with crossdressing... the points are often too vague and therefore could really say ANY person who is close to their mother might be a crossdresser; they are too common because so many people are close to the opposite gendered parent who AREN'T gay or a crossdresser; and they don't really offer any solution. Pushing your child away because they are too close to you is idiotic. Saying because a child slept in the same bed as a parent pass the age of three and that's why he's gay is ridiculous.
You are so right. Too many people are looking for a quick fix to a non-existent problem. Crossdressing is NOT a problem, there is no cure because there is no illness.
Plan and simply, this is just what you do and trying to find a cause can only be done on an individual level, not with a wide brush to paint them all.[/SIZE]
"I don't buy the party line and that makes me a heretic."
Gee. I always thought that was the PANTY line?
Abosolutely right, DD. Almost everybody is closer to their mother than father. And many fathers are more distant or absent.
CD happens. It is just one of life's mysteries.
Don't look for a genetic answer--are your kids cd? Was your father or mother? If you married a cd would all your kids be cd? I think not.
I agree with the whole "party line" sentiment as well. From what I have seen, it is very common to hear individual experiences and personal opinions presented as if they were universal facts in CDing discussions, and I often have the feeling that people are trying to convince themselves as much as they are others. That especially shows in the constant refusal by many to consider that the basic habit of crossdressing might have unhealthy aspects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora27
Bravo - it would be nice to see that level of self-honesty more often, frankly. :clap:Quote:
I know that for myself crossdressing is mostly sexual, and I could hardly care less because its just how circumstances worked out for me. It is a dark, sordid thing, and to some level a perversion, but its in the past, and presently I don't take it to obsessive levels.
I have said before that CDing bears a disturbing resemblance to the patterns of behaviour present in addictions, and might very well be just another addiction for many ... and I mean that exactly and literally. My own experience is much the same pattern; looking back at when I dress, the urge is much stronger when I am stressed or having other problems I do not want to deal with, and it has disappeared when I am absorbed in something else that I love doing.
I am not overly bothered by this because, when all is said and done, dressing is harmless in itself ... and I find it much better to keep my compulsions in the open where I can keep an eye on them. But I also am not blind to the downsides and the potential for that pattern of dressing behavior to grow and become a really negative thing.
Being aware of that means I can resist the temptation to use dressing to avoid problems, and face or solve them instead. When I run into relationship or personal problems, I tell myself to put down the clothes and makeup and deal with them. (When I run into tedious and boring bits of work, on the other hand, I might allow myself a little escape time).
That is just me and my life ... but I do think that self-awareness is important for everyone and the "party line" that crossdressing is natural and good in general interferes with it.
That would be me. The motives of that site might be all kinds of things, but aside from that it is still a perfectly valid and useful question whether that "typical crossdresser" profile is reasonably accurate. It is in fact about a 75% match for me (in all but the "close mother" area), and others have said it fits them as well. I have had many thoughts lately about how my dressing relates to a lack of role models and a family where everybody is expected to conform to expectations and nobody makes much effort to know each other intimately, so it is useful to me to hear that (at the very least) there are other crossdressers with similar backgrounds. It tells me this is a track worth pursuing further.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
Yes but, with all due respect, that is totally not the point. All our lives are different and the reasons we dress are individual, indeed. There might still be common elements, and if we want to understand ourselves it is useful to try to find those common elements ... and we cannot do that if people keep dismissing and attacking every view they do not like or want to hear.Quote:
So much of our lives is made up by numerous factors that change, shape and manipulation our thoughts and opinions that stating any one element caused a lifestyle outcome is like saying one shower too many caused a lifetime of dry skin.
As somebody else said (maybe in one of the comments that disappeared from the bug), this site is one more viewpoint to be looked at and considered and digested.
Bravo - it would be nice to see that level of self-honesty more often, frankly. :clap:
I have said before that CDing bears a disturbing resemblance to the patterns of behaviour present in addictions, and might very well be just another addiction for many ... and I mean that exactly and literally. My own experience is much the same pattern; looking back at when I dress, the urge is much stronger when I am stressed or having other problems I do not want to deal with, and it has disappeared when I am absorbed in something else that I love doing.
I am not overly bothered by this because, when all is said and done, dressing is harmless in itself ... and I find it much better to keep my compulsions in the open where I can keep an eye on them. But I also am not blind to the downsides and the potential for that pattern of dressing behavior to grow and become a really negative thing.
Being aware of that means I can resist the temptation to use dressing to avoid problems, and face or solve them instead. When I run into relationship or personal problems, I tell myself to put down the clothes and makeup and deal with them. (When I run into tedious and boring bits of work, on the other hand, I might allow myself a little escape time).
That is just me and my life ... but I do think that self-awareness is important for everyone and the "party line" that crossdressing is natural and good in general interferes with it.
Yes but, with all due respect, that is totally not the point. All our lives are different and the reasons we dress are individual, indeed. There might still be common elements, and if we want to understand ourselves it is useful to try to find those common elements ... and we cannot do that if people keep dismissing and attacking every view they do not like or want to hear.
I would like to hear more honesty also Bravo, to you as well as Auroua