Fascinated a Little Boy this Sunday

I went into Payless Shoes this Sunday to purchase a few pair of shoes. I entered and headed for the Women's Size 11 aisle. I am always dressed in drab with the exception of a fem hair style, and capri pants. It is important to mentioned that on the other side of the aisle are the men's (boring) shoes. I had just gotten a pedicure on Thursday and my toenails were perfectly pedicured and polished in a very sassy bright red. I entered the store wearing women's sandals with a 3 inch heel. As I was trying on shoes, a Hispanic man and his little boy came down the aisle and the man sat down and began trying on shoes. The boy was about 10 years old and was wearing a baseball uniform. The man started trying on men's shoes and I was about 3 feet away trying on women's sandals. The boy just stood there in amazement or maybe it was shock and watched me try on the sandals. I wish I could have know what he was thinking because he was so fixated on my feet as I tried on women's heels. Since he was so fascinated, I played it up a little and modeled the shoes before the mirror, posing my foot in different positions and wiggling my polished toes. The boy was almost in a trance, and it was almost surreal.:eek: The boy's father found a pair of shoes and started to leave calling the little boy who was still fixated on my feet. I really wonder how this experience will influence him. Maybe he really wants to wear women's shoes and to have painted toenails. I will never know, but at least I believe that I expanded his horizons today by showing him that it is possible to to have feminine feet and to wear womens shoes proudly. Maybe one day he will become one of us. :D

I wouldn't wish this curse on anyone. Did you ever stop to think you may have CORRUPTED the poor little guy? Fine if you want to mess with adult's heads, but the kids should be left alone... based on your post - it looks like you're almost proud to "bring someone over to the dark side". I'm sorry but your post sickens me.

Kids should be left out. If I am at payless, I make sure there are no families or kids around when I try on shoes. I don't want to be a cause for parents having to explain or influeincing anyone. My 2 cents

Hey guys -- I wasn't expecting such a harsh response to Jamie001's post. I don't believe at all that Jamie being herself trying on shoes "corrupted" that boy. What nonsense! Does this mean that we as transgendered people should not dress and go to stores in the daytime where there are children around? I wonder if this is the same mentality as saying that gay men or gay women shouldn't hold hands with each other in front of kids. No -- parents have to explain to kids that transgender (and gay) people exist. Now, the only thing that you can fault Jamie on is that she said that she was "playing up to that boy" when she was trying on the shoes. I think that children should not be "played up to". However, had she been completely minding her own business trying on shoes in a store where there happened to be a child, I don't think we could blame her for anything. I wonder if the two posters above really believe that you can "catch" transgenderism by some childhood experience. Personally, I don't think so. Also, to say that being transgendered is a "curse" is a point of view I do not share.

I am sorry but capri's, 3 inch heels and painted toes are not drab. As for anything else, I prefer to fly under the radar so to speak, but to each their own. I can almost hear the boy and dad's conversation upon leaving the store...something along the lines of the boy asking and dad making derogatory remarks about the "insert expletive about gender or sexual preference"

I don't mind if another woman is in the shoe isle with me, no I actually like it, but if there are kids or teens around, I wait till they leave to try on shoes or hit the door.
SheriM

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Originally Posted by maya1love

Hey guys -- I wasn't expecting such a harsh response to Jamie001's post. I don't believe at all that Jamie being herself trying on shoes "corrupted" that boy. What nonsense! Does this mean that we as transgendered people should not dress and go to stores in the daytime where there are children around? I wonder if this is the same mentality as saying that gay men or gay women shouldn't hold hands with each other in front of kids. No -- parents have to explain to kids that transgender (and gay) people exist. Now, the only thing that you can fault Jamie on is that she said that she was "playing up to that boy" when she was trying on the shoes. I think that children should not be "played up to". However, had she been completely minding her own business trying on shoes in a store where there happened to be a child, I don't think we could blame her for anything. I wonder if the two posters above really believe that you can "catch" transgenderism by some childhood experience. Personally, I don't think so. Also, to say that being transgendered is a "curse" is a point of view I do not share.

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I happen to Agree
with maya come on people stop judging other CD'S when we ourselves are judged Enough

Enough is Enough ok yea so Jamie should not have been showing off for a child. but what maya said is true! if children of today go through life knowing only one way
THEY WILL BE CLOSED MINDED LIKE THE REST OF SOCIETY !!!!!!!!

after all if people on here are gonna judge!!! It flippen SHAMES ME BEING A PART OF A SISTERHOOD THAT JUDGES EACH OTHER

I imagine the kid was infatuated with the red nails, or a combination of nails and heels. I doubt he knew or even thought about Jamie's gender presentation, unless Jamie has facial hair.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

I wouldn't wish this curse on anyone. Did you ever stop to think you may have CORRUPTED the poor little guy? Fine if you want to mess with adult's heads, but the kids should be left alone... based on your post - it looks like you're almost proud to "bring someone over to the dark side". I'm sorry but your post sickens me.

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i call this person a TROLL.
even walking down the street one will see much worse than this, i also do try to stay away from "kids" but kids will be kids and be underfoot in all places. this little boy will see much in his life and i DO NOT call cross dressing a curse. or "the dark side"
you do not belong on this sight, and should be baned.

this way you do not have to get sick reading others postings.

Loni

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Ughh. This is all so pathetic in many ways. This forum is supposed to be about acceptance and support, but once again those who can't accept this thing that we are, shoot from the hip because they can't see beyond what they feel about themselves.
I have a 10 yr old Godson who was born to a lesbian woman through a sperm donor and knows everything about both his mother's sexual orientation and how he was conceived.
He is PERFECTLY fine with it all and is going to be a model citizen because of it. In fact we can all only hope that more children like him become the future of our society.

Granted there are some very bad things being done to children, perpetrated by some very sick people, so i can understand that we can get very worked up by situations dealing with our youngsters. But please folks, to jump to the conclusion that this child has been corrupted or influenced is just so wrong!

I'll concede that the OPs description pushed the boundaries somewhat, but let's say for argument's sake that she went about trying on the shoes, and admiring them on her feet without any thought to the child? Is this still as awful as you KatGRL744 and Tiffany are assuming? To jump to the conclusion that any child can be corrupted or influenced is both unknown and more likely totally false. Certainly not worth throwing about words like "sickening" or "curse".

We should be hopefull that we can educate society while out in it, but looking around corners and trying to hide from children and families is not the way.

That said Jaimie, adding a smilie to the end of your thread and making it look like you hope "he will one day be one of us" is a boundary you should not have crossed, IMHO.

Sorry for the winded response but i have another quick story as it relates. I went into my local tanning parlor awhile back, drab, in shorts and sandals with my newly painted pink toes on display. At the counter was a woman with two children approx. 5 and 6 yrs old at her feet. I took a seat to wait my turn, crossed my legs and grabbed a magazine. I saw the 2 kids walk a few steps toward me and begin staring at my feet. You could tell that children at that age have learned the things that make men and women different in appearance and dress. They kept looking and then turning towards their mother and i was waiting for the questions to come, "mommy this man has toes like yours!". In all honesty i wished it wouldn't happen, but niether was i going to go hide outside. I knew the thing to do if asked was to simply say "yes, i like them this way" and smile, then turn my head back to the magazine.

It is when we act ashamed that we give society reason to treat us poorly.
mj (Cassie)

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

I wouldn't wish this curse on anyone. Did you ever stop to think you may have CORRUPTED the poor little guy? Fine if you want to mess with adult's heads, but the kids should be left alone... based on your post - it looks like you're almost proud to "bring someone over to the dark side". I'm sorry but your post sickens me.

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No, it is society that is CORRUPTED with the extremely narrow constraints of acceptable attire placed on men. It is obvious there is a lot of emotional baggage members of this community have for simply wanting to go outside the constraints of acceptable attire for men.

Look around - why is the Male-to-Female Crossdressing section have over 20 times the threads and postings as compared to the Transmasculine section?

If I were to go shopping for women's shoes I would wear a skirt and sandals. I have my toenails painted dark gray, black, or dark blue.

Kind regards,

John

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Originally Posted by MsMjSerene

Ughh. This is all so pathetic in many ways. This forum is supposed to be about acceptance and support, but once again those who can't accept this thing that we are, shoot from the hip because they can't see beyond what they feel about themselves.
I have a 10 yr old Godson who was born to a lesbian woman through a sperm donor and knows everything about both his mother's sexual orientation and how he was conceived.
He is PERFECTLY fine with it all and is going to be a model citizen because of it. In fact we can all only hope that more children like him become the future of our society.

Granted there are some very bad things being done to children, perpetrated by some very sick people, so i can understand that we can get very worked up by situations dealing with our youngsters. But please folks, to jump to the conclusion that this child has been corrupted or influenced is just so wrong!

I'll concede that the OPs description pushed the boundaries somewhat, but let's say for argument's sake that she went about trying on the shoes, and admiring them on her feet without any thought to the child? Is this still as awful as you KatGRL744 and Tiffany are assuming? To jump to the conclusion that any child can be corrupted or influenced is both unknown and more likely totally false. Certainly not worth throwing about words like "sickening" or "curse".

We should be hopefull that we can educate society while out in it, but looking around corners and trying to hide from children and families is not the way.

That said Jaimie, adding a smilie to the end of your thread and making it look like you hope "he will one day be one of us" is a boundary you should not have crossed, IMHO.

Sorry for the winded response but i have another quick story as it relates. I went into my local tanning parlor awhile back, drab, in shorts and sandals with my newly painted pink toes on display. At the counter was a woman with two children approx. 5 and 6 yrs old at her feet. I took a seat to wait my turn, crossed my legs and grabbed a magazine. I saw the 2 kids walk a few steps toward me and begin staring at my feet. You could tell that children at that age have learned the things that make men and women different in appearance and dress. They kept looking and then turning towards their mother and i was waiting for the questions to come, "mommy this man has toes like yours!". In all honesty i wished it wouldn't happen, but niether was i going to go hide outside. I knew the thing to do if asked was to simply say "yes, i like them this way" and smile, then turn my head back to the magazine.

It is when we act ashamed that we give society reason to treat us poorly.
mj (Cassie)

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good point cassie. one question to everyone though: why should we as a community and as humans be ashamed of what we are? Society says we as men have to wear certain things that look certain ways and we are strong enough in ourselves to challenge society's narrow minded vison as to which clothes define the sexes, we should be proud of who we are.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

I wouldn't wish this curse on anyone. Did you ever stop to think you may have CORRUPTED the poor little guy? Fine if you want to mess with adult's heads, but the kids should be left alone... based on your post - it looks like you're almost proud to "bring someone over to the dark side". I'm sorry but your post sickens me.

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Well, in that case all I have to say is thank god that boy doesn't live in my neighborhood, because he would never be able to leave the house without seeing a CD or two (or three, or four...) :)

As for the "corrupted" concept, I firmly believe that I was born with this desire to dress like a girl, and nobody or no thing or no instance "corrupted" me. Maybe that's just me, but that is what I know based upon my personal experience. Heck, my parents tried to "un-corrupt" me for YEARS, and it didn't work. So how can seeing a CD for a few minutes in a shoe store ruin a boy's life by "bringing him to the dark side"? (I'm picturing a crossdressing Darth Vader at this point.)

This all just made me realize why I am the way I am. When I was just a small child I must have seen a TS woman and caught it. So when I grew to an adult I could do nothing more then become full time and live as a woman. Yes that must be it. I caught something from some TS woman. Help me find a cure (tears) LOL. Hey wake up this is a support forum. We help each other.

I believe that John is right. We need to stop being ashamed of who we are and start being proud! If there had been a woman in the store buying mens rugged boots and wearing a flannel shirt and baseball cap, no one cares. We need to be brave and show the public that we are proud of who we are and stop believing that we are some type of abberation. What do we do about people that are covered in tattoos? Should they be not allowed to expose them? If they have tats on the face, should the face be covered? We need to be proud of who and what we are.

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Originally Posted by JohnH

No, it is society that is CORRUPTED with the extremely narrow constraints of acceptable attire placed on men. It is obvious there is a lot of emotional baggage members of this community have for simply wanting to go outside the constraints of acceptable attire for men.

Look around - why is the Male-to-Female Crossdressing section have over 20 times the threads and postings as compared to the Transmasculine section?

If I were to go shopping for women's shoes I would wear a skirt and sandals. I have my toenails painted dark gray, black, or dark blue.

Kind regards,

John

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Girl

As for the "corrupted" concept, I firmly believe that I was born with this desire to dress like a girl, and nobody or no thing or no instance "corrupted" me. Maybe that's just me, but that is what I know based upon my personal experience. Heck, my parents tried to "un-corrupt" me for YEARS, and it didn't work. So how can seeing a CD for a few minutes in a shoe store ruin a boy's life by "bringing him to the dark side"? (I'm picturing a crossdressing Darth Vader at this point.)

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There are plenty of little girls that have the desire to dress like a boy, and no one has any issues with that. So why is it such an issue for a boy to want to dress like a girl?

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Originally Posted by Jamie001

I believe that John is right. We need to stop being ashamed of who we are and start being proud! If there had been a woman in the store buying mens rugged boots and wearing a flannel shirt and baseball cap, no one cares. We need to be brave and show the public that we are proud of who we are and stop believing that we are some type of abberation. What do we do about people that are covered in tattoos? Should they be not allowed to expose them? If they have tats on the face, should the face be covered? We need to be proud of who and what we are.

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Just as a woman can go to a store wearing a flannel shirt and a baseball cap I as a MAN can wear my skirts and dresses publicly. It's not my style to use a feminine name or feminine pronouns.

i am in the camp of bad practice..not a good idea to do this....for this reason i shop fully enfemme anymore to avoid this type of problem....sorry..i just belive this is not good practice and gives us all a bad rap..jus my take

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Originally Posted by michelle64

i am in the camp of bad practice..not a good idea to do this....for this reason i shop fully enfemme anymore to avoid this type of problem....sorry..i just belive this is not good practice and gives us all a bad rap..jus my take

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Why should I have to disguise the fact that I am a man when I wear a skirt or a dress when a woman does not have to disguise herself when she wears a flannel shirt, jeans, and a baseball cap?

There was a time when women could not wear pants as women - about 100 years ago. In fact, a woman could have been arrested for wearing pants back then.

There was a time such as the 1950's when men had to have short hair and could not wear necklaces, bracelets, or earrings. At least now it is legal for men to wear skirts and dresses. The social freedom for men to wear skirts and dresses will not come about until men start exercising those options.

well i guess KaTGRL774 and michelle64 will not like me, as i rarely have mens clothing on, even when going out as a guy. all of my jeans are woman's jeans, and my T-shirts are from the woman's dept. nothing sexy or feminine about them, other than made with a finer grade of thread, and fancy rear pockets. simple shoes. (not showing my painted toes) but i do have clear over a shear pink on my fingers. nothing ever said about the color even tho it is a very light one. looks natural but shinny.

maybe as a little boy my mom should not have taken me shopping with her ( i liked it) she should have just dumped me in the back yard on a chain and made me play with toy trucks??

to me dressing is not a curse, (well maybe to my wallet) but it is something i enjoy. even now i am getting ready to go shopping, yes in a skirt. after i have a class at a local collage, and the instructor only knows me as Loni. (yes she knows i am a male in a skirt).

if just seeing someone with painted toes makes them derange, then that boy has much worse problems. as i doubt it would turn him into a cross dresser or a transsexual.

but if this is the dark side...i am loving it and keep the lights turned off please.


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Uhg. You know what? this thread sickens me.

Good grief. Shopping for women's shoes isn't illegal. If some kid sees you, so what? Must conform to go fully en femme or don't shop for shoes partially en femme? Must not go in when family and kids are there? Gah.

I really feel that the people on this forum are sometimes their own worst enemies. WE ARE NOT MONSTERS!!!!!! We're just PEOPLE.

Wow..

Well, I'm not at all surprised at the reaction I got - which just goes to show the depravity of some folks. I AM a crossdresser, you can't put me in the basket of people who don't know how it is. I've walked a mile in your high heels.. so my viewpoint is just as valid - I am not a TROLL as some have said.

Oh btw, before I continue.. I predict this thread will be locked before the day is out.

The point I was making - and apparently few caught it - was that young minds are impressionable. (and I was a little boy, and YES, TV shows, people out in public, media influence - THEY MAKE AN IMPACT! I can remember thinking about some of the transgender Springer shows for days after I saw some of them.. my mind rewinding back to some of the images of passable CD's for years to come)

If you look like a man, and are flaunting the notion of crossdressing to young people - you're sick. Plain and simple. Get a life, and stop forcing your viewpoints on the young. I bet it left a lasting impression (probably a disturbing one) for quite some time. Please people - this isn't rocket science! Young people have a hard enough time trying to sort things out growing up without that kind of a monkey wrench thrown at them so early on.

All I'm saying is, leave the poor kids out of it. If you pass as a woman, and nobody notices you - good for you. But please don't disturb the minds of the youth. This is coming from someone who was disturbed as a young man. It can and does happen.

The very fact that this person was enjoying the "show" they were putting on is disgusting. I don't know how any sane person here thinks this was okay. Like I said, fine if you want to flaunt it in front of well-adjusted adults who have already formed a stable mind and psyche, but these are kids. They're defenseless. And yes, I am a father of a 3 year old boy. I take pride in telling you (I can hear the flames already...) that I will not purposely give him any clue that his father has ever worn anything but male attire.

Seriously people - grow up and quit being selfish about this. "Well I wannt be accepted..." fine.. but leave the kids out of it.

Playing up to the kid was wrong on a lot of levels. I try to avoid kids. I don't want to be anyone's teaching moment. It's usually not too hard to avoid them. Could have easily been avoided at Payless. Getting your nails done or your hair done you can be trapped. Been there, done that, many times. It's a spoiler for me. It's worse that often at these places I'm not completely enfemme. I prefer to get my hair and nails done while the kids are in school, but there's always the preschoolers. Not a good deal.

I'm also quite aware of all the nature/nurture type arguments, but I think it's naive to think you have no impact or influence. Whether or not that's bad would be a raging debate, but it'd be hard to argue that your appearance can't spark some interest in a child. I know my nephew (30 years ago) went through a phase of periodically rolling his hair (Actually his mom rolled it for him). I don't know that he did it only because I did, but I know he was emboldened by the fact that I did.

Usually these teaching moments take place out of earshot. I can think of a few times when the inevitable questions came up at the hair or nail salon (Particularly hair salons. More kids there.) and I got to hear how it played out. Typically just makes me want to crawl in a hole, regardless of the level of sensitivity in the explanation.

Rhonda - well said! Thanks, you put it a lot nicer then myself - but honestly the whole thread and it's responses has really angered me. First, that this happened, and second, that many of the responses are selfish "I want acceptance, not ridicule" posts. In the context of children, this is absolutely ridiculous. It's indoctrination, it's corruption of pure minds. I'm sure many will argue, but it's true.. speaking from experience.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

Wow..

Well, I'm not at all surprised at the reaction I got - which just goes to show the depravity of some folks. I AM a crossdresser, you can't put me in the basket of people who don't know how it is. I've walked a mile in your high heels.. so my viewpoint is just as valid - I am not a TROLL as some have said.

Oh btw, before I continue.. I predict this thread will be locked before the day is out.

The point I was making - and apparently few caught it - was that young minds are impressionable. (and I was a little boy, and YES, TV shows, people out in public, media influence - THEY MAKE AN IMPACT! I can remember thinking about some of the transgender Springer shows for days after I saw some of them.. my mind rewinding back to some of the images of passable CD's for years to come)

If you look like a man, and are flaunting the notion of crossdressing to young people - you're sick. Plain and simple. Get a life, and stop forcing your viewpoints on the young. I bet it left a lasting impression (probably a disturbing one) for quite some time. Please people - this isn't rocket science! Young people have a hard enough time trying to sort things out growing up without that kind of a monkey wrench thrown at them so early on.

All I'm saying is, leave the poor kids out of it. If you pass as a woman, and nobody notices you - good for you. But please don't disturb the minds of the youth. This is coming from someone who was disturbed as a young man. It can and does happen.

The very fact that this person was enjoying the "show" they were putting on is disgusting. I don't know how any sane person here thinks this was okay. Like I said, fine if you want to flaunt it in front of well-adjusted adults who have already formed a stable mind and psyche, but these are kids. They're defenseless. And yes, I am a father of a 3 year old boy. I take pride in telling you (I can hear the flames already...) that I will not purposely give him any clue that his father has ever worn anything but male attire.

Seriously people - grow up and quit being selfish about this. "Well I wannt be accepted..." fine.. but leave the kids out of it.

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You are really making a mountain out of a molehill.

I guess if a woman dresses with the proverbial flannel shirt, jeans, and baseball cap she is infecting the minds of young girls who might want to crossdress as boys.

Think of the violence that is shown in the entertainment media. Nobody seems to worry about young impressionable minds being corrupted by the violence.

How about unfaithfullness shown on television? Again, no one seems to worry about how young minds can be infected.

What I'm saying is if men wearing femme attire was just as acceptable as women wearing drab attire this masculine-to-feminine crossdressing section would be much smaller.

My wish for this forum is that the participants would assume masculine names and use masculine pronouns and references. I would like to see the situation when MEN AS MEN can discuss their freestyling fashions that are outside the boundaries of conventional male attire.
I like that most of you put on makeup, etc to enhance your appearance. Those items should be considered OK for men.

Of course I am dreaming...

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

It's indoctrination, it's corruption of pure minds. I'm sure many will argue, but it's true.. speaking from experience.

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We are born in a state of corruption. There is no such thing as a pure mind on this earth.

Kind regards,

John

I'm asking for this thread not to be locked. :)

It's odd how different readers get different meanings from the description of the original event. When I read the original post, I understood it as Jamie minding her own business in the store, along comes a curious, staring child, and Jamie doesn't go running to another aisle. I didn't pick up on the "playing it up" aspect until others mentioned it. It's really hard to know what happened and my approach is to think the best of others.

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Originally Posted by Engendered

I'm asking for this thread not to be locked. :)

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If this thread is locked we can create another thread and continue our discussion.

Hmmm, might I mention that the father could not have been completely oblivious. If he was upset about what his son was watching he could have taken care of it easily. From the description of the event, this did not happen. Might we not step back from this a minute? Do we really know who is watching when we try on shoes at Payless, or walk down the street, for that matter? Consider that we have a young boy, likely completely bored, suddenly seeing something interesting in front of him. Wouldn't you expect him to watch? If he was under 5 years old, I'm sure that he will not remember the incident when he becomes older. After all, how much of our youth do we remember in detail?

Androgynous or mixed-gender individuals are everywhere. I imagine that this encounter was only interesting from the point of view of the adults.

tina

Well, I agree with KatGRL774. Young minds can certainly be impressionable. What kind of impression would be left had Jamie become all flustered and nervous about being seen and had scampered off back into the darkness? That being different is wrong? Any form of femininity in a male is shameful? Should the event been played up by Jamie? No, certainly not. But going out of our way to avoid any segment of the population is worse. The conversation between the father and his son after they left the store could have just as well been a positive moment when dad could have explained that the different people in the world all contribute to our experience in life and that being confident in yourself, no matter who you are, is always a positive thing in your own life.

Amanda - What do the following lines suggest to you??

"Since he was so fascinated, I played it up a little and modeled the shoes before the mirror, posing my foot in different positions and wiggling my polished toes. The boy was almost in a trance, and it was almost surreal."

This is what our poster wrote. I think in a court of law this would be damning evidence that the child's emotions were being messed with, and intentionally.

Not cool. As for what someone posted about the child's father - ignorance on his part is not a license to be ignorant as well. He either didn't care, or didn't notice. Either way, not the greatest show of parenting skills.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

Amanda - What do the following lines suggest to you??

"Since he was so fascinated, I played it up a little and modeled the shoes before the mirror, posing my foot in different positions and wiggling my polished toes. The boy was almost in a trance, and it was almost surreal."

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If I were trying on the shoes I would not play it up to the little boy. I would turn my back to the boy and away from the mirror. And above all, I would not post this topic on this forum. I say there is a little corruption in the boy's mind imposed by society - otherwise, why would he be in a trance?

One has to live with the aberrations of society.

So KatGRL, regretfully I have to see your point to a certain degree. However, please be aware there are other sources of corruption that are worse than this example.

I just got tired of all this back and forth

JonhH -

Just because there is corruption in the world, that doesn't give anyone a license to perpetuate it.

"One has to live with the abherrations of society" - you said this.. and this is true, but does this mean we should throw caution to the wind and just behave like people with no self control?

I see no defense for this kind of behavior.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

The point I was making - and apparently few caught it - was that young minds are impressionable. (and I was a little boy, and YES, TV shows, people out in public, media influence - THEY MAKE AN IMPACT!

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They're not THAT impressionable. Little kids are not programmable machines. Even when young they have their own ideas, likes and dislikes.

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I can remember thinking about some of the transgender Springer shows for days after I saw some of them.. my mind rewinding back to some of the images of passable CD's for years to come)

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And that was a bad thing? I think not.

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If you look like a man, and are flaunting the notion of crossdressing to young people - you're sick. Plain and simple. Get a life, and stop forcing your viewpoints on the young. I bet it left a lasting impression (probably a disturbing one) for quite some time.

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Oh, so you're one of THOSE, a self hating transperson. You forget that for many of us, we already WERE crossdressers when we were young. And how is seeing a transperson openly shopping "forcing" anything.

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But please don't disturb the minds of the youth.

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Kids aren't that fragile, that seeing a transperson or say a handsome butchy woman would scar them for life.

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This is coming from someone who was disturbed as a young man. It can and does happen.

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Dont extrapolate your individual experience to others.

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Like I said, fine if you want to flaunt it in front of well-adjusted adults who have already formed a stable mind and psyche, but these are kids. They're defenseless.

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Why do you have such a low opinion of children's capacities to understand things. The funny thing is, the first time I ever talked about "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" with a professional, there were kids in the waiting room.

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I take pride in telling you (I can hear the flames already...) that I will not purposely give him any clue that his father has ever worn anything but male attire.

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Why? It's a normal thing you do. Why not teach him that there are people who do it, and that there's nothing wrong with it so he grows up more tolerant of things when he grows up.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by JohnH

If I were trying on the shoes I would not play it up to the little boy. I would turn my back to the boy and away from the mirror. And above all, I would not post this topic on this forum. I say there is a little corruption in the boy's mind imposed by society - otherwise, why would he be in a trance?

One has to live with the aberrations of society.

So KatGRL, regretfully I have to see your point to a certain degree. However, please be aware there are other sources of corruption that are worse than this example.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

JonhH -

Just because there is corruption in the world, that doesn't give anyone a license to perpetuate it.

"One has to live with the abherrations of society" - you said this.. and this is true, but does this mean we should throw caution to the wind and just behave like people with no self control?

I see no defense for this kind of behavior.

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KatGRL, I think I made it abundantly clear I would have handled things a bit differently. As I said I would have turned my back to the boy away from the mirror, and ABOVE ALL, I would not have posted this topic.

John

Veronica -

Thanks for that insightful look into the mind of a child, and I think you're completely wrong. I don't hate myself either, but I know what's realistic and trying to publicly be something I'm not doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

Some of you are seriously deluded.

JohnH -

Yeah, you said how you would have handled it. But the overwhelming majority of your words on that very same post were chock full of justifications for "corruption" in the world. You didn't really adress that part of it.. just stated what YOU would do. And that's great - I just wish others shared your view - but sadly most have an attitude of "do whatever pleases me and the rest can just adjust" attitude.

Don't you think I wouldn't love to just wear a dress all day? Sure.. I'd love it.. I'd also like to sit around and eat ice cream all day..

There is one very important point that no one has made yet! Especially those of you who are talking about the young boy being corrupted

Jamie was wearing capris and had long feminine styled hair. He also had bright red toe nails and was trying on ladies sandals!! The boy was Hispanic, and probably had not seen bright red toe nails before. He may not have even realized that Jamie was really a man, especially since he was staring at the red toes!! Did anyone even slightly consider that possible fact?? I seriously doubt it!!

That makes what Kat said way out of line! He/She is entitled to her own opinion, but in this case it would be better unpublished, since it was obviously not well thought out!! The opinion was well stated, but certainly with a lot of anger! A thorough reading of the OP should have given Kat second thoughts!! Even though Jamie kind of played to the boy's looks, he never said he was a man!! Unless he had facial hair, or a totally masculine look, who knew what he was? I have seen a lot of GG's who could easily pass for men!!

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

Don't you think I wouldn't love to just wear a dress all day? Sure.. I'd love it.. I'd also like to sit around and eat ice cream all day..

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What's the harm? There are some Saturdays and Sundays that I do just that other than when I go to church. I'm not getting fat or harming my health by doing so. And by the way, my wife never wears dresses or skirts - only pants, shorts, and for sleepwear, nightgowns. She even goes for walks with me while she is wearing pants and I am wearing a dress.

Snore...

You should not have to hide who you are i see nothing wrong here.

The whole argument is probably moot. If the little boy does grow up to have an interest in wearing womens' shoes, chances are the seed was already planted (by nature or nurture) long before he saw the OP trying on heels. If the boy grows up to wear womens' shoes, it won't be the OP's fault this happened.

However, for the boy's long term well being, I hope he doesn't. Even a casual fetish for wearing womens' shoes can cause serious problems; the guilt and shame thing, the hiding, relationship problems with women over it, etc. etc., the problems we often see posted here by crossdressers.

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Originally Posted by sissystephanie

There is one very important point that no one has made yet!

Jamie was wearing capris and had long feminine styled hair. He also had bright red toe nails and was trying on ladies sandals!! The boy was Hispanic, and probably had not seen bright red toe nails before. He may not have even realized that Jamie was really a man, especially since he was staring at the red toes!! Did anyone even slightly consider that possible fact?? I seriously doubt it!!

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:) see post #8 ;)

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Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV

The whole argument is probably moot. If the little boy does grow up to have an interest in wearing womens' shoes, chances are the seed was already planted (by nature or nurture) long before he saw the OP trying on heels. If the boy grows up to wear womens' shoes, it won't be the OP's fault this happened.

However, for the boy's long term well being, I hope he doesn't. Even a casual fetish for wearing womens' shoes can cause serious problems; the guilt and shame thing, the hiding, relationship problems with women over it, etc. etc., the problems we often see posted here by crossdressers.

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Let's see - a century ago it was illegal for women to wear pants and those that did so were considered insane. I can see it - the fear of a young girl of having a fetish for men's shoes and pants, the guilt and shame thing, the hiding, relationship problems with men, etc.

Instead of keeping this cross-dressing thing a secret and a shameful thing to do maybe it is time for MEN to exercise the right to wear all clothing, including feminine clothing and makeup openly the same way as WOMEN exercise the right to wear all clothing, including masculine clothing. Fortunately the laws of the land permit men to do just that. Now it is time for MEN to expand their options!

That way there would be no issues with a man wearing a dress with heels and makeup anymore than a woman wearing a baseball cap, flannel shirt, jeans, and hiking boots.

I wear my skirts and dresses, and sometimes, heels as a MAN. That is the reason why I use my masculine name.

Kind regards,

John

I think it's time for me to take a trip back to planet earth. I don't know what planet I'm actually on, but it's not earth, and all of you who think men dressed as women is completely normal and natural have forgotten what's good about the differences between men and women. There are differences. Embrace them instead of trying to level the playing field.

Vickie, the whole subject, content and message delivered by the poster was one of excitement and pride over possibly inluencing a young boy. End of story.

I'm outtahere.. I'm sure my words haven't changed anyone's mind, but they have reaffirmed my own standing on the issues.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

I think it's time for me to take a trip back to planet earth. I don't know what planet I'm actually on, but it's not earth, and all of you who think men dressed as women is completely normal and natural have forgotten what's good about the differences between men and women. There are differences. Embrace them instead of trying to level the playing field.

Vickie, the whole subject, content and message delivered by the poster was one of excitement and pride over possibly inluencing a young boy. End of story.

I'm outtahere.. I'm sure my words haven't changed anyone's mind, but they have reaffirmed my own standing on the issues.

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I don't mean to criticize anyone else, but you do use a feminine name instead of a masculine name even though I guess you are a man and not a GG.

John

John, regarding my name - good point! It was never something I really wanted to do, but I was convinced some years ago to do that. I don't go by Kat anywhere except here. Honestly, you could call me Joe or Bob.. heck I don't care.

As for the pants and whatnot, double standard..

Deny this, and I'll grant you have something on that line of thinking...

What normal woman do you see padding her crotch, or growing leg hair, or wearing fake facial hair, or making physical unnatural modifications to their body to appear male?? Yet the majority of male crossdressers are trying to pass as female. wigs, fake nails, eyelashes, makeup, you name it - and all in efforts to appear female. A woman in a pair of shorts or sweatpants can still look very feminine and beautiful. What male CD's do is false advertising. They try to speak differently, walk differently, they pad their hips and breasts.. Come on.. there's no comparison.

You see my point?

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There is one very important point that no one has made yet!

Jamie was wearing capris and had long feminine styled hair. He also had bright red toe nails and was trying on ladies sandals!! The boy was Hispanic, and probably had not seen bright red toe nails before. He may not have even realized that Jamie was really a man, especially since he was staring at the red toes!! Did anyone even slightly consider that possible fact?? I seriously doubt it!!

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I really don't understand what has to do him being Hispanic with him not having seen before bright red toe nails. Could you please explain? Is it that Hispanic woman use more conservative colors? Or that the wonders of colored nails have not been brought to Hispanic countries?. I'm really waiting here for an answer

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I am sorry but capri's, 3 inch heels and painted toes are not drab. As for anything else, I prefer to fly under the radar so to speak, but to each their own. I can almost hear the boy and dad's conversation upon leaving the store...something along the lines of the boy asking and dad making derogatory remarks about the "insert expletive about gender or sexual preference"

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Talking about predisposition.... How in hell can you know what this father told his kid? Why do you have to assume that he made derogatory remarks?

It's incredible how a forum that is supposed to foster open-mindness and acceptance has so much bigotry and stereotyping. This attitude is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Sorry but it just sucks.

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Originally Posted by KatGRL774

John, regarding my name - good point! It was never something I really wanted to do, but I was convinced some years ago to do that. I don't go by Kat anywhere except here. Honestly, you could call me Joe or Bob.. heck I don't care.

As for the pants and whatnot, double standard..

Deny this, and I'll grant you have something on that line of thinking...

What normal woman do you see padding her crotch, or growing leg hair, or wearing fake facial hair, or making physical unnatural modifications to their body to appear male?? Yet the majority of male crossdressers are trying to pass as female. wigs, fake nails, eyelashes, makeup, you name it - and all in efforts to appear female. A woman in a pair of shorts or sweatpants can still look very feminine and beautiful. What male CD's do is false advertising. They try to speak differently, walk differently, they pad their hips and breasts.. Come on.. there's no comparison.

You see my point?

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By the way, Kat, what masculine name would you like me to call you?

I have natural long hair and natural breasts and hips. I have no use for wigs, breast forms, or hip padding. I really have no issue with makeup since for either gender it is an artificial thing. At any rate, I haven't started wearing it. I speak with my normal "Joe Friday" voice pitch no matter what I wear, and I do not modify the way I walk except only as necessary if I am wearing heels. I have no intention of speaking or acting like a female.

I do not really have a drab or femme mode as such - I used to have long fingernails with nail polish that I wore all the time but decided it was too much of a hastle so I don't do that anymore.

In other words, I make no effort to pass as a woman - I simply like to have additional options as far as my clothing and appearance. I do like to wear standard men's suits and in this cooler weather, plaid flannel shirts.

Kind regards,

John

Trying on shoes is one thing, even if the boy noticed what you were doing. But putting on a little show waggling brightly painted toenails is a little OTT IMO

John..
You can call me whatever you like - I prefer not to use my actual name, but I guess if I were to pick something it could be "James". I just randomly selected that...
Ok so anyhow,

Natural breasts? Natural hips? Does that mean you're shaped like a man, or that you somehow have the appearance of larger breasts and hips (like those found on a woman)? Because if you're referring to the latter.. I doubt they came "naturally" without the aid of hormones or something introduced to the body that it wasn't expecting. I believe this would go into the category of "un-natural" since it was artifically imposed and something your body wasn't meant to do. Or, unless you're talking about excess body fat - in which case, proportionally, you still would appear male because other features would have gotten larger due to excess weight. Obese folks, although they do have breasts, don't really have a "feminine shape".

Regarding the rest - I'd say you are not the average crossdresser. In fact I'd say you probably have confused a great multitude with your appearance. To each his own - but I would bet a large sum of money that this hasn't helped you in your life much. Be it career, family, friends, etc. Has it? Am I wrong? I really doubt it.. my apologies if I've offended.