Lesbian fantasies

You know, with all this "sexuality" talk on these forums, I feel the need to address something here. I find it rather amazing how some CDers express profoundly their "heterosexuality" yet make statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians!" Ummm... hold up a second! Let me get this straight (no pun intended), you will OVERLY profess your heterosexuality but instantly presume a GG will live like a lesbian lover with you?!

You people do realize that WOMEN can be straight too, right? That not all... hell, not even MOST women are gay or bi.

Don't you think its being quite the hypocrite to state that you are "oh-so hetero" and "wouldn't dream of engaging in any homosexual" act but then want to sleep with a woman as a woman?

I'm bisexual and am attracted to both feminine and masculine. But I fully understand most people don't feel the same way.

I find it ridiculous that anyone would presume another person to engage in a homosexual act when they are not of that sexuality! Just because you find something feminine attractive doesn't mean your partner should unless this is something they came into the relationship knowing about and agreeing upon.

How would you feel if your SO dressed in an unappealing manner then expected you to have sex with them? And this is not to say that straight women cannot find feminine attractive, just that the PRESUMPTION of a straight individual being okay with a homosexual act just because the "genders are opposite"? Puh-lease!

Well it seems DD, that you've stated the obvious. Possibly the source for so much of the rejection CD's get when they 'fess up'.

Since we CD's are generally in denial in the first place over our sexuality can we be so profoundly surprised when others get up in arms over our escapades?

It's cliche, but I'll dare say it again, I'm straight, happily married, but I feel like I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Does that make my wife a lesbian? I don't think so, because I don't have the equipment that would make her one. It's a fantasy thing. We very seldom make love when I'm garbed, but when we do, it certainly seems wonderful and she seems a bit more stirred up, perhaps because it's a bit "taboo" or something.

Whatever the case, we're happy, and if you're happy in your relationship and at peace with yourself, that's what really matters.

Take care! :D

because I certainly have no rite to speak for other "straight" CDs. I would like to try and have sex dressed, with an SO GG. If it was good for both of us, do it again.

The "live like lesbians" reference mite apply to a life style. Puting each other's makeup on, doing each other's hair. Dressing up, shopping, reading and watching shows about fem techniques, etc., together. This fantasy mite be just as objectionable to a straight GG as having sex with a male CD.

But, these r just CD fantasies anyway. Very few of us will find ANY type of GG to try either of them with!

If I get to be a lesbian, then do I have to wear comfortable shoes? :D

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

...The "live like lesbians" reference mite apply to a life style. Puting each other's makeup on, doing each other's hair. Dressing up, shopping, reading and watching shows about fem techniques, etc., together. This fantasy mite be just as objectionable to a straight GG as having sex with a male CD....

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Please don't take offense as I am not trying to attack you personally, but the idea of labelling that kind of relationship/lifestyle you describe as lesbian will offend quite a few lesbians. I must ask my sister if she & her partner spend much time doing each other's makeup, shopping for clothes, making each other beautiful.

No, never mind. I already have and they will both accuse you of buying into 'the man's' high-maintenance stereotype of women; walk out of the room laughing and maybe even muss your hair for fun.

I don't think there is a label for the lifestyle/relationship you describe.... I grew up with 2 sisters and we never did any of that. I did help my brother fix his hair for prom one year........ :heehee:

:lol:

DD, don`t you know that from a male hetro point of view, Male gayness is bad but ALL beautifull girls would just LOVE to kiss another girl! It just makes the world such a beautifull place!:D

Might I ask WHY so many of the GG's have this revulsion to CD?

Seems likely at least, they perceive the possible relationship as lesbian in their own minds. Even when they know it is their own husband who is dressed up in his feminine finery the perception remains.

When I engage in sexual relations with my wife we are in a state of UNdress and clothes have little to do with it (or maybe only as far as they are taken off). For me the CD thing is something completely separate from what my wife and I do.

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Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

Don't you think its being quite the hypocrite to state that you are "oh-so hetero" and "wouldn't dream of engaging in any homosexual" act but then want to sleep with a woman as a woman?

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Isn't that the whole idea of "fantasy?"

Well said, DD. The fact that women have sexual desires and preferences too does sometimes get lost here; but I'm even more puzzled by the frequency with which posters feel the need to say that they are not GAY (it's often in capitals, too - what's with that?). In some discussions it's relevant, of course, but the defensive tone is a bit bizarre in a community like this.

Anyway... 'straight', 'gay' and 'lesbian' are rather ambiguous terms when it comes to transgendered people. I tend to think of myself as gynophiliac (i.e. attracted to women) instead. That and 'androphiliac' are very useful words - or would be, if you could count on people knowing what they meant!

Kisses,

Lucy

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Originally Posted by celeste26

Might I ask WHY so many of the GG's have this revulsion to CD?

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I cant speak for every GG but for me im not attracted to women, yes i can say that women are pretty etc but i wouldnt want to be with one. Thats why in my opinion GG's might not feel comfortable with a partner who cds

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Originally Posted by celeste26

Seems likely at least, they perceive the possible relationship as lesbian in their own minds. Even when they know it is their own husband who is dressed up in his feminine finery the perception remains.
When I engage in sexual relations with my wife we are in a state of UNdress and clothes have little to do with it (or maybe only as far as they are taken off). For me the CD thing is something completely separate from what my wife and I do.

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But on the other hand what if you dont feel attracted to your partner... thats half of the issue for some GG's. It not so much what you wear but how you look. To me there has to be a pysically attraction for sexual realtions. If you dont find your SO attractive when they are dressed how can we be expected to have sexual relations.

Have you ever tried to have sexual relations with someone who you weren't attracted to, i have and its not as good and half the time you cant be bothered.

I never considered myself a Lesbian, but I had attractions, and crushes on women and girls growing up. Femme and butch girls. Couldn't talk about it back then. I like males, too. Usually the smart sensitive types. So, I have to ask...as a GG, if I meet a MTF cd and find myself very attracted to his feminine persona and especially if he's in drag. Does that make me a Lesbian ? And there's always the possibility that my male side/persona likes her, too. However, my male component wouldn't be attracted to his male side sexually. My female side might be very much so. And I am sure there would be tensions. It would be like living inside a diamond ring. Hard, but beautiful. I wouldn't mind being described as a lesbian during my attachments, sexually, or emotionally. That makes me Bi Sexual. Conditional Lesbian ? Heteroflexible ? (depending on the person I am with)
Generally speaking, I am not attracted to GG's as potential sex partners. It all comes down to magnetism, chemistry, and compatibility.

That's the problem with labels, they are so limiting.

A GG being attracted to CD doesn't fit under the label of lesbianism, nor does it fit squarely under the label of heterosexism.

Should we coin a new term or should we say to hell with labels?

Here's a scenario:

Your wife lets all of her body hair grow out and glues on a fake goatee. Then she steps into a blank and flattens her chest. To complete things (and this REALLY turns her on) she puts on your tidy whities and a tank top and starts talking about how she wants you so bad (in a gruff voice nonetheless). Now on top of that, she wants you to dress the same way, no femininity involved.

Here's the kicker: She wants this all the time! How many of you would be up for it? Don't you think it would strain your marriage just a bit??? What if this didn't come out until after 10 years of marriage, and you find out that your feminine, pretty wife only wants to have sex while dressed as a man? What do you say to her? "I'm not gay"???

DD is absolutely right. Far too many CD's hold this selfish double standard. It's ironic how misogynistic cultural values permeate into crossdressing, no?

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Originally Posted by DonnaT

That's the problem with labels, they are so limiting.

A GG being attracted to CD doesn't fit under the label of lesbianism, nor does it fit squarely under the label of heterosexism.

Should we coin a new term or should we say to hell with labels?

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I would hate to lock into an iron clad definition. Things in life are always changing. People change, and outgrow one another. What seemed so endearing at one time can become a full time irritant.

I'm surprised at you DD.:eek:


Being heterosexual means you find women sexually attractive. And being Cd means you enjoy assuming the persona, or at least dress, of a female.

So what's so outragious about the fantasy of wanting to incorporate the two? It's so logical. It makes total sense.


Being adamantly heterosexual and wanting sex with MEN when you are dressed...now THAT'S a contradiction.

Being disappointed that your wife/SO can't or doesn't want to fullfill your fantasy, well that's just common sense. Of course she doesn't, because she's straight. But it doesn't mean it isn't still a fantasy. There is no contradiction or duplicity in having a fantasy based on being CD and finding women sexually attractive.

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Originally Posted by celeste26

Might I ask WHY so many of the GG's have this revulsion to CD?

Seems likely at least, they perceive the possible relationship as lesbian in their own minds. Even when they know it is their own husband who is dressed up in his feminine finery the perception remains.

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I do not have a revulsion to cds or cding ........... I just do not want to have sex with another female, either in real life, or in some cds fantasy ...... why is that so terrible, what is wrong in holding my hands up and saying " I want pure male in the bedroom" .

It seems the more we accept the more you (the cdr in general) want .... but only on your terms :Angry3:

I think Lesbians are already offended either way.

Personally, I am still unsure of my sexuality. Bi-curious maybe? Hetero-flexible? Still not sure, guess there is no way to tell for sure unless I try.

As for other people, I speak for myself in saying I just want to live & let live. If you are gay, more power to you. If you're straight, thats good for you. Whats right for one person isn't right for everyone.

Deep, deep shame on us :o

Hangs head and walks away with tail between the legs.

Hey DD,

Another great point (one I think we've discussed privately). I can see your argument quite clearly... as well as those who take the other side. It really comes down to labels, and how damaging they are. As I've said before, we as CDs do have a certain innate responsibility. We do ask for a lot in our relationships, we want out cake and eat it too... I have often posed the question "What if your wife/GF came to bed dressed as a guy, stopped shaving, etc.." That's a point well-taken.

The way I see it is this: We CDs project a "force-fed" fantasy of what being feminine is about. We tend to assume that the ladies in our lives think/feel as we think they think and feel.... but we as men can never truly know. We can seek to be empathetic and understanding, but thats the best we can hope to achieve.

Secondly, very often when we, the CD try to communicate, we tend (at least some of the time), to be very one sided. It's so easy to make it about US, US, US... and we quite often forget that the ones we're trying to communicate with also have feelings and thoughts and we don't always hear or pick up on them. Communication is a 2-way street. BOTH people need to talk AND listen..... Communication may not solve the problem, but hopefully it will give both parties a better understanding of the other.

Just my 2 cents.. for what it's worth.... now back to the can of worms...

Careful Alayna, I think that is the exact fantasy that a lot of CDs have!

Most folks have problems with admitting to fantasies that might brand them as homosexual or bi. Being bi-sexual or whatever in your mind, IMHO that's the same as actually performing the act. And so, they will make contradictory statements that go, "I'm not gay but I would really like to have sex with a _____!"

I reckon that most everybody is a little crazy. I also reckon that a lot of people hide some very deep, dark, secrets. If we had the ability to read minds, wouldn't it be a scary thing!

Peace and Love, Joanie

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Originally Posted by Alayna

Here's a scenario:

Your wife lets all of her body hair grow out and glues on a fake goatee. Then she steps into a strap-on and flattens her chest. To complete things (and this REALLY turns her on) she puts on your tidy whities and a tank top and starts talking about how she wants you so bad (in a gruff voice nonetheless). Now on top of that, she wants you to dress the same way, no femininity involved.

Here's the kicker: She wants this all the time! How many of you would be up for it? Don't you think it would strain your marriage just a bit??? What if this didn't come out until after 10 years of marriage, and you find out that your feminine, pretty wife only wants to have sex while dressed as a man? What do you say to her? "I'm not gay"???

DD is absolutely right. Far too many CD's hold this selfish double standard. It's ironic how misogynistic cultural values permeate into crossdressing, no?

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Originally Posted by Emily Anderson

Deep, deep shame on us :o

Hangs head and walks away with tail between the legs.

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HAHHAHA Oh gyod, do we have a smart alec here? Oh wait yeah several.


Anyways, without saying what I really think, let us observe a fact -

What goes on between consenting adults, behind closed doors, is their own business.

All very good comments! I brought up this post specifically to point out that asking a woman who is not attracted to females to find a CDer attractive while dressed is going to have some problems.

Any of my previous posts will tell you I love Kayla dressed as a female BUT I'm bisexual and would find this appealing by nature.

The point of all this, is the simple fact that were the roles reversed and your SO wanted to present themselves as male, would you be so keen on having sex with them? If not, could it be because you are not attracted to the masculine? See my point?

Celeste, its not revulsion to crossdressing. Its them not being attracted to the feminine. Most straight women don't "perceive the possible relationship" at all. That's the point. They are straight and not attracted to females even if its just a presentation of one. Are there exceptions to this? Of course but the point is we are talking about the majority and that majority doesn't.

DonnaT, yes, were it simply stated as just a fantasy. But reading some of these posts makes a lot of CDers sound as if they couldn't POSSIBLY understand WHY a woman wouldn't want to sleep with them while dressed as a female. I'm merely addressing this matter in general. And I say to hell with labels but to hell with stereotyping as well! To say its perfectly "natural" or "all right" for a GG to be attracted to a CDer in female attire but not visa versa is stereotyping.

Lucy Bright, thank you. I'm posting this because it does often seem that some CDers lose sight of a GG having specific sexual attraction and desires. Its a shame and it drives wedges in relationships.

Star Girl, hunnie, you are like me where gender is irrelevant to our love of the individual. I am speaking out for those GGs who feel they are not attracted to the feminine and hopefully giving them a thread to state their peace. :)

Alayna, RIGHT ON THE NOSEY! If a man is not attracted to masculinity then how can he expect a woman to be attracted to femininity? You made a perfect point. :)

Julie York, are you really surprised? Hunnie, a fantasy is a wonderful thing and there is nothing wrong with it as long as its not imposed on another individual. I'm referencing those CDers who can't seem to grasp the concept as to why a straight GG would not want to have sex with them in female mode. Tis all. I am not shocked by the fantasy at all and completely understand why it would occur. What does surprise me is when a CDer expresses shock that a straight woman who doesn't find femininity attractive would not want to have sex with the CDer in fem mode.

All...

It comes down to understanding that how you feel might be quite similar to how another feels. If you aren't attracted to masculinity in any way, is it so difficult for you to understand how another could not be attracted to femininity?

Over the years, my wife has been very accepting of my crossdressing, including frequent sex while I'm dressed. It's interesting that for all of those years I had a mustache and was not making any effort to "pass" or step outside the house.

A couple of years ago the mustache went away, and I started to experiment with wigs and makeup. As I did so, my wife became increasingly uncomfortable. Not too long ago she remarked that she was tolerant, but that women didn't turn her on. It seems that the further I went towards my desire to appear feminine in public, and the less obvious my masculinity, the less interested she was in sex.

It was different when I was obviously a man in lingerie or a skirt; as my skill improved, my relationship became more complicated.

Angelfire, this discussion isn't really about being gay, straight, bi or hetero-anything. Its about respecting and understanding another's feelings and realizing that what one finds attractive another may not.

Emily Anderson, there is nothing to be ashamed of. In truth, I would love to help any CDer find a loving, supportive, accepting SO. I hope to not make any CDer feel ashamed but rather make them more understanding of how it sounds to GGs when its presumed you are perfectly okay and attracted to femininity.

Alicia Lynn419, yes, we've touched on this topic in private. I honestly want to help in the matter of allowing both GGs and CDers understand each other better. I have had discussions with GGs stating how they simply aren't attracted to femininity and how it affects their relationship. And reading the posts on here often lead to the same idea as some CDers can't seem to fathom why a GG ISN'T interested in sex while the CDer is presenting as female.

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Originally Posted by Becca

Over the years, my wife has been very accepting of my crossdressing, including frequent sex while I'm dressed. It's interesting that for all of those years I had a mustache and was not making any effort to "pass" or step outside the house.

A couple of years ago the mustache went away, and I started to experiment with wigs and makeup. As I did so, my wife became increasingly uncomfortable. Not too long ago she remarked that she was tolerant, but that women didn't turn her on. It seems that the further I went towards my desire to appear feminine in public, and the less obvious my masculinity, the less interested she was in sex.

It was different when I was obviously a man in lingerie or a skirt; as my skill improved, my relationship became more complicated.

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This is the point of my post exactly. Though I find femininity attractive just as much as masculine, it isn't that way with everyone and if I, someone who has never even for a moment in my life considered myself straight, could understand this concept, how can so many miss the point?

All I'm trying to do, is open minds, on both sides. For GGs and for CDers.

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Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

I find it rather amazing how some CDers express profoundly their "heterosexuality" yet make statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians!"

of a straight individual being okay with a homosexual act just because the "genders are opposite"? Puh-lease!

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I think that's where you've made the mistake in your post. There is nothing amazing about heterosexual CDs making statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians".

It's a common fantasy. (Not for me because, obviously, I'd like to dress as Nixon and be spanked by a rubber clad nurse, but that aside...)

You are expressing an annoyance that is not clearly expressed.

Your annoyance about, whatever it is, is not what you wrote about.

Your annoyance appears to be about one post I haven't read by one person who is disappointed that his SO doesn't have lesbian tendencies.

DD I see where you're coming from and you make a good point. Just please be aware that many of us straight CDers don't think like that. I'll throw this out that we are so closeted about our CDing because we think mainly about what GGs will think about it and how it will turn them off. If it suddenly became true that a majority of GGs were into CDers than you would see sales of dresses and makeup shoot up overnight. I don't think you're correct in stating we "instantly presume" a GG would want to live a lesbian lifestyle with us. We know in most cases that's not true and I really think that's where a majority of problems with our CD identity comes from.

Just a guess here, but in cases where people get married and then the CDer comes out years later it could be simply a matter of thinking that the woman they love is more important than wearing some panties or whatever and not wanting to lose them. Thus making the choice of marraige over CDing. Of course the CD urge never does go away and causes problems later. Never having been married that was always one of my concerns about the future of possible marriages I could have had. And plenty of GGs have told me straight out (not regarding me since I didn't tell them, but in general) that the one thing they could never deal with is a guy who dressed like a girl. Trust me, we know the reality.

And out of respect for lesbians, I have to acknowledge that we may say things like the Eddie Izzard line "I'm a Lesbian born in a man's body" once in a while, but I think it's a quick way to say we're attracted to women and CD. Are we really lesbians? No, of course not. And we don't really know how they feel.

Well DD, I'm sure you already know this but, many men find the idea of sex with another man revolting but they find sex between 2 women a big turn-on. So to fantasize being one of those two women is not all that far off from that.
For many of the men that I know, women are basicly objects of sexual desire first and human beings second, and since their primary motivation in life is sexual in nature, it might be hard for them to understand that many women are NOT attracted to other women. Hell, most men haven't a clue about how and what women think, and a lot of them don't much care either, as long as they get what they want.

There's nothing wrong with having a fantasy, I have lots of them, but just expecting someone else to partake in that fantasy without even caring if the other person is interested and willing, there's where the trouble starts.

It's a lazy, selfish, ignorant mentality that some guys have, and some percentage of CD's are in this category- the same CD's who though wearing a dress or skirt will sit legs spread wide "macho-style", who don't wash their hands when using the restroom...:eek:

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

It's a lazy, selfish, ignorant mentality that some guys have, and some percentage of CD's are in this category- the same CD's who though wearing a dress or skirt will sit legs spread wide "macho-style", who don't wash their hands when using the restroom...:eek:

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Which bit of the "on topic" bit is that then?


:eek:

DD

I understood. I was just trying to be funny. I'm not THAT serious!

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Originally Posted by Julie York

I think that's where you've made the mistake in your post. There is nothing amazing about heterosexual CDs making statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians".

It's a common fantasy. (Not for me because, obviously, I'd like to dress as Nixon and be spanked by a rubber clad nurse, but that aside...)

You are expressing an annoyance that is not clearly expressed.

Your annoyance about, whatever it is, is not what you wrote about.

Your annoyance appears to be about one post I haven't read by one person who is disappointed that his SO doesn't have lesbian tendencies.

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Actually, I'm not referring to specific posts at all though I have read a few of them making general statements like this. I'm referring to discussions I've had with CDers and GGs. See, the problem is, some CDers make some GGs feel that their sexual attractions are of little importance and it makes CDing seem even more of a sexual nature than it really is for the most part. I started this in hopes making some much needed clarifications on both parts. Some GGs see CDing as this huge purely sexual fantasy that implicates them as a mere "pawn" if you will. And some CDers seem to help promote that stereotype. I'd like to see it gone. I'd like to see you all taken for the individual you are. But it doesn't help when one groups sexual orientation is constantly mentioned when there is no need and the other groups sexual orientation isn't even considered.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

DD I see where you're coming from and you make a good point. Just please be aware that many of us straight CDers don't think like that...

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I know you gurls don't. I know that the precentage this is in reference to is rather small. But that is the point of this as well. I know many of you are truly struggling with these issues and to see them blown to bits because of the impression imposed on some GGs is truly unfair. I merely wish to address that its quite the double standard to expect someone to be attracted to something just because you are.

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Originally Posted by AmberTG

Well DD, I'm sure you already know this but, many men find the idea of sex with another man revolting but they find sex between 2 women a big turn-on. So to fantasize being one of those two women is not all that far off from that.
For many of the men that I know, women are basicly objects of sexual desire first and human beings second, and since their primary motivation in life is sexual in nature, it might be hard for them to understand that many women are NOT attracted to other women. Hell, most men haven't a clue about how and what women think, and a lot of them don't much care either, as long as they get what they want.

There's nothing wrong with having a fantasy, I have lots of them, but just expecting someone else to partake in that fantasy without even caring if the other person is interested and willing, there's where the trouble starts.

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The fantasy is fine, but to refer to another human being like a mere object in that fantasy isn't. Everyone talks about CDing becoming publicly acceptable and I agree it should be. But that is going to be difficult when some individuals mention the other female in their relationship like she has no input or when GGs talk about having to force themselves to fain attraction to their partners when they are in fem mode.

Don't you think its being quite the hypocrite to state that you are "oh-so hetero" and "wouldn't dream of engaging in any homosexual" act but then want to sleep with a woman as a woman?

I think the 'wouldn't dream...' part is important; the implication being, that it wrong and that the woman would think it was wrong too. But getting dressed up and mincing about is fine?

I'm bisexual and am attracted to both feminine and masculine. But I fully understand most people don't feel the same way.

Me too.

Sophia

I like Helen Boyd's answer - that she is a Betty sexual. I love my wife (who happens to be a female). Good, bad, or indifferent she it the object of my sexual desires regardless of what she wears (thank goodness she seems to feel the same way about me).

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Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

Some GGs see CDing as this huge purely sexual fantasy that implicates them as a mere "pawn" if you will. And some CDers seem to help promote that stereotype. I'd like to see it gone. I'd like to see you all taken for the individual you are.

The fantasy is fine, but to refer to another human being like a mere object in that fantasy isn't.

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I believe u r making 2 mistakes;
1. Confusing fantasies with realty. In my lesbian fantasies, I'm 26 y/o and have no male parts!
2. Most of the CDs here r males. Males r generally considered to be pigs. What do they say about puting lipstick on a pig? Still a pig, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Julie York

I think that's where you've made the mistake in your post. There is nothing amazing about heterosexual CDs making statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians".

I'd like to dress as Nixon and be spanked by a rubber clad nurse, but that aside...)

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That's rediculous Julie! How that can that be an exciting fantasy? Now, if the rubber nurse is wearing a Henry Kissinger mask, that's another matter entirely!

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I believe u r making 2 mistakes;
1. Confusing fantasies with realty. In my lesbian fantasies, I'm 26 y/o and have no male parts!
2. Most of the CDs here r males. Males r generally considered to be pigs. What do they say about puting lipstick on a pig? Still a pig, isn't it?

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Well in my lesbian fantasy... hey! Wait a minute! I'm not posting that on here! LOL! Its not the fantasy that bothers me, its the inability for some people to understand another's point of view. Its statements that imply all women are somehow "OK" with being with someone feminine, where that obviously isn't the case. Its about how hot Julie York would look in a rubber suit. Its about me playing the nurse because I'd look damn cute in the outfit. Its about respecting another's personal boundaries and presenting that to the general public if its what you really feel is truthful about you. Its about a lot of its abouts.

I'm, on the whole, minus the a few 'sexual kinks', a straight male.

That is to say I prefer woman, and I have never considered having sex with another male (but I have kissed one, but it was a dare and I did win a £10 bet and it was like kissing sandpaper!)

When me and my SO have make love, play sexual games or what ever, its a male to female, I'm the male she is the female even if I'm dressed I'm still male and still consider myself male. If she dom I'm sub or vice aversa, I still see myself as male.

Male lesbain fantasties are not grounded in the real world. They are a 'prefect' fantasty trying to be imposed on a imprefect reality.

Some on this forum say they like being treated as a woman, me personally, I want to be treated as an equal and an Indivivdual who wishs to wear female garments, and not to mock or degraded when i do.

At the end of the day I'm still a bloke in a skirt and always will be :2c:

End of rant. No offence meant and thank you.

Sub note to my rant;

In my family there is a long line of strong woman, British working class stock. Therefore I was brought up proper, respect woman and never hit one. People always underestimate the working class woman.

I have as a result always treat all my female partners as equals (even my @#&$* of an ex-wife).

Treat others as you wish to be treated is my motto.

:)

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Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

Well in my lesbian fantasy... hey! Wait a minute! I'm not posting that on here! LOL! Its not the fantasy that bothers me, its the inability for some people to understand another's point of view. Its statements that imply all women are somehow "OK" with being with someone feminine, where that obviously isn't the case. Its about how hot Julie York would look in a rubber suit. Its about me playing the nurse because I'd look damn cute in the outfit. Its about respecting another's personal boundaries and presenting that to the general public if its what you really feel is truthful about you. Its about a lot of its abouts.

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I get your point about, the "abouts". And U can play the rubber nurse. And even leave off the Henry Kissinger mask, too!

i must be in the minority here but sex while dressed has never turned me on.naked it is how i like to become one with my partner and pray at the altar of feminity.

I do have a lesbian relationship with my wife but her relationship with me is strictly heterosexual.

Like someone once said, 'I think what most people may never understand is that it takes a stronger person to truly be themselves than to simply conform to a society's perception of their "roles"'.

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Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

The point of all this, is the simple fact that were the roles reversed and your SO wanted to present themselves as male, would you be so keen on having sex with them?

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I have never had any homosexual feelings whatsoever but when my wife and I reverse role play, I find her sexy as a male. To me this is all about how you view sexuality and how liberated you are. Those who believe in the natural order of things will inhibit themselves.

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What does surprise me is when a CDer expresses shock that a straight woman who doesn't find femininity attractive would not want to have sex with the CDer in fem mode.

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I think the actual numbers of members here who don't know this you could count on one hand. There is a lot of fantasy talk and wishful thinking on this forum, don't be fooled into believing this is what CDs actually think.

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Some GGs see CDing as this huge purely sexual fantasy that implicates them as a mere "pawn" if you will.

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Then to me this is all about GG's perception of CDing and believing their fears are being validated when they read the constant stream of fantasy talk from CDers.

I have one more point to add. Surveys of young girls show a surprising number want to experiment with lesbian love. Many surveys indicate numbers over 50%. I don't think this means anything more than wishful thinking that lesbian love is better and more fulfilling. After a few years these same girls if surveyed again will be 90% straight heterosexual.

The desire to explore new ideas, to talk about fantasies should never be considered to be anything more than that. I think GGs are reading more into this than is actually the case especially if they already fear this issue.

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Originally Posted by Stevie C

I do have a lesbian relationship with my wife but her relationship with me is strictly heterosexual.

Like someone once said, 'I think what most people may never understand is that it takes a stronger person to truly be themselves than to simply conform to a society's perception of their "roles"'.

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That is the best answer yet! LOL!

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Originally Posted by Satrana

[SIZE="3"]Then to me this is all about GG's perception of CDing and believing their fears are being validated when they read the constant stream of fantasy talk from CDers.[/SIZE]

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Bingo! Its been expressed in the pasted and several GGs on here feel that some posts only reinforce that belief. I merely wanted to bring this to the attention of the majority and see how they felt. I don't feel the few speak for the whole but we all know how human beings can get....

The fear of GGs then, maybe is not so much centered around the physical appearance of their SO dressed up (although that hardly helps) but the psychology of their personal relationship.

So a GG can be anxious that while making love for example, she wants to know that her SO is viewing this as a heterosexual experience and that he loves her and desires her, as a heterosexual man. Instead she is thinking OMG! is he thinking to himself that he is a woman as he makes love to me? Is he thinking that when I respond to him it is because I see him as a woman? Does he think I am excited because of lesbian fantasies he thinks I have?

I can see how a GG may feel that their SO is on such a big escapism fantasy trip that he loses sight of the difference between fantasy and reality and thus loses sight that the relationship is a heterosexual one. She needs to know her SO sees the relationship the same way she does and values her for being the woman in the relationship.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

The fear of GGs then, maybe is not so much centered around the physical appearance of their SO dressed up (although that hardly helps) but the psychology of their personal relationship.

So a GG can be anxious that while making love for example, she wants to know that her SO is viewing this as a heterosexual experience and that he loves her and desires her, as a heterosexual man. Instead she is thinking OMG! is he thinking to himself that he is a woman as he makes love to me? Is he thinking that when I respond to him it is because I see him as a woman? Does he think I am excited because of lesbian fantasies he thinks I have?

I can see how a GG may feel that their SO is on such a big escapism fantasy trip that he loses sight of the difference between fantasy and reality and thus loses sight that the relationship is a heterosexual one. She needs to know her SO sees the relationship the same way she does and values her for being the woman in the relationship.

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So wonderfully and perfectly put! Thank you!

Any other GGs want to extrapolate on this?

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Originally Posted by bridget thronton

I like Helen Boyd's answer - that she is a Betty sexual. I love my wife (who happens to be a female). Good, bad, or indifferent she it the object of my sexual desires regardless of what she wears (thank goodness she seems to feel the same way about me).

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BINGO! I'm a D-sexual. I can appreciate the beauty of another man (or woman), but I have no desire to touch that beauty. I like what I married, sans any clothing :D

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Originally Posted by harmony

i must be in the minority here but sex while dressed has never turned me on.naked it is how i like to become one with my partner and pray at the altar of feminity.

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We have found that to be true as well....from both sides of the dynamic. Which makes perfect sense to me. How can someone wanting to present, be considered female be comfortable with male performance? Full femme increases his amorous feelings (I suspect from being more relaxed) but the actual deed is incongruent.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

...I can see how a GG may feel that their SO is on such a big escapism fantasy trip that he loses sight of the difference between fantasy and reality and thus loses sight that the relationship is a heterosexual one. She needs to know her SO sees the relationship the same way she does and values her for being the woman in the relationship.

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True many, many times.

And for those that poo-poo this point, I would like to point out that in almost every relationship where CDing came out after the hetero relationship was established, intimacy suffers. Most times it is the CD withdrawing attentions. I see time and time again wives complaining that their husband no longer seems interested and goes as far as impotency. The fantasy overrides and kills the reality in many cases, at least for a time. It's a very real phase and agonizing. Now I'm not saying it's ALL the CD's fault ALL the time...I've seen wives withhold intimacy to punish or control the CDing...but the majority of wives are eager to continue intimacy as it is concrete confirmation that their guy is still in love with them first.

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Originally Posted by Julie York

Which bit of the "on topic" bit is that then?

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re-read her original post. I responded to the comments she made about a certain attitude. THAT is the "on topic bit."

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Originally Posted by Stevie C

I do have a lesbian relationship with my wife but her relationship with me is strictly heterosexual.

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This is the way I've always viewed my relationship with my wife. I've also said more than a few times that I could be full time, but my wife isn't a lesbian.

DD thanks for starting this thread; it has been informative and interesting.

Ok, so here we are with the genetics of males, and we adore women. After all, we are doing all we can to BE them! As if that's not complicated enough, those of us with SOs who help or at least accept our compulsion, SOs who we loved to begin with when they thought we were ONLY male, have become even more important to us (if that was possible!). So here we are, dressed as the objects of our desires, changing our voices, changing our body movements, even changing our thought processes to match the gender we wish to present, and here is the woman of our dreams, helping us! Right at that moment, is it any wonder that the emotional surge is maybe a little less than controllable? We all know just how emotional this whole process is to begin with (plus and minus) and adding a loving and supportive SO to this mix could very well be, temporarily, overwhelming.

I'm a bit luckier in that my wife made it clear from the start that she has no interest in women in any way. I see that as a tiny tiny tradeoff for her love and support when in any gender, and the most marvelous helper, guide, and supporter when dressed.

I can understand the fantasies...the emotions run so high!

tina