Closeted Crossdressers Lack "GUTS" and a "SACK." Or do We?

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Originally Posted by Anne2345

So is this where the closeted crossdressing community is? Are we really comprised of gutless, sackless girls? I know some here would argue what’s the point of having a “sack” in the first place, but I digress . . . . :heehee:

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Anne, I agree totally. For me, the *whole* point of CD is to not have a "sack." :eek:

My reasons for being "in the closet" are my own. This is what I want to do. This is when I want to do it and how I want to do it. Nobody else is paying for this. I don't ask for nothin' from nobody. Nobody here really knows me or most of what I've been through in the last 48 years. I don't want to share that. If I did I'd be on another board. Or in a group IRL. I love to wear women's clothes. This is a board for crossdressers of all shapes and sizes and flavors. Well, "types" would be a better word. :o

So I'm with you Anne. :hugs:
Dawnie

I finally remembered the other reason. CD and my "real" life outside the closet don't match up. They don't need to. CD is my personal little playground and I don't necessarily want to share it with anyone else. Especially if they aren't supportive of me. This is my fun time. :2c:

Frankly, it was a bit of a shock to realize, just 6 years ago, that I was transgendered. It must be that I was so absorbed with all the changes that happened in my life that I just didn't notice this remarkable attitude by some members of our community. Heck, I initially didn't even realize the remarkable bigotry that exists in many people against transgenderism! Since I had a wife who was not only helpful and supportive but downright enthusiastic about the two of us learning about this feminine side of me (and teaching her what it is like to be feminine) my experience was incredibly positive from one learning experience to another. Pretty incredible, huh? I thought I had found a community that really pulled together and was, most importantly, empathetic about the issues that we all face at one time or another. Airing those issues help us all, well they certainly helped me.

In a couple of recent threads, the theme of, "if you aren't out of the closet you aren't helping our community!". OMG what a myopic statement! Can anyone possibly think that the only way to support each other is to go out in public, no matter what? The answer is, "apparently so!". Personally I find it much more rewarding to interact with people individually who state erroneous statements about being transgendered. In the long run, this may be the most effective way to change the general attitude.

And then we get the themem or, "there can't be any other reason that you are not out in public than fear!" Again, what a myopic view of the world! Life is not that simple or simplistic. A thoughtful person will weigh all of the possible consequences of any action in life, no? Considering all the negatives that currently swirl around transgenderism in society today, I think that as a group we are forced to be thoughtful and aware. Also, considering the remarkable internal pressures to present our femme selves, it is restraint and self-control that are difficult mental qualities to maintain.

Lastly, for those of us who in loving and open relationships with our spouses, our feminine selves are just one of many considerations that make up that loving relationship. What we do inside of that relationship is really no one else's business, and cannont be criticized by anyone in a just way. Likewise, those of us who are in a relationship where transgenderism was initially hidden for whatever reason, constraints exist that are immensely difficult and gut-wrenching. How can we criticize that situation in terms of activisim?

We all enjoy hearing about the trial, tribulations, and joys of those "out and about". It's a part of the learning process for the whole community. Thank you so much, all of you who are out in public! Tina has learned so much from you over these six years and has made her transition from nonexistance to reality much easier!

Tina

In some jobs, you may find yourself demoted, or transferred if your employer finds out about your crossdressing. That is bad enough. However, consider the fireman, police officer, EMT or soldier. He depends on his workmates for his life. Discrimination in those jobs could be a slow backup or no backup on a dangerous call, failure to cover your squad mate in a firefight. And imagine the fireman living in a firehouse with a crew of guys who know he crossdresses and don't approve.

All of these jobs have strict grooming and uniform policies for both their male an female employees. They dictate such things as style and length of socks permitted, length of hair, types and limits on jewelry worn, visability of tattoos, etc... Are these policies illegal?

Lots of good, honest opinions here with lots of good points being made. We are here of our own free will, not to be insulted or to insult, but to learn, discuss (diverse views but not imposed on others), support, be supported, to encourage not discourage. Push crossdressing forward not repress it. Let each enjoy it in their own way to the extent they wish. There is no right way or wrong way, although we strive to attain certain plateaus to make ourselves better as best we can. Nobody currently on this earth is perfect.

I have not read all responses for I have to go soon BUT.... I will say that before I came out "as did all CDs that did not come out of the womb dressed , or as a very Young child" I was 22 when I told my family and 38 before I walked out my door fully dressed as Christina. Why did I wait so long. Did I not have guts or a sack. NO I just was not ready yet. Just that simple for me. You and others say you want to stay in the closet and that great , if your happy who's to say its wrong or your doing nothing for all of us. It's people like the $%#@'s that get mad or criticize you that make me mad. You don't need guts to go out.... You need the want or desire to go out.
But there is one thing I'd like to say and it's not a criticism of you or anyone who's in the closet but you said "Despite the unfortunate belief of some here, not every crossdresser has a desire to express herself in public. I am one such crossdresser." Now I think in a small way you want others like minded here and other places on line to know your fem-side. So in a small way your out for all to see , just not everyone will think to look for you here lol.

I am soooo glad I took that first step outside and wish all others could feel what I feel and that may be in part why they are rude and cruel in what they say and how they say it. Not in defence of them just trying to understand the mind of a %$#*!

If the closet is where you want to be , Just make sure it's a walk in so you can twirl that skirt..... ;)

Good lord, what a great bunch of ladies you all are! I've read each and every post in this thread and am so happy to have this forum to share my thoughts and read those of others… all within, yes, my closeted world. Like Anne, others who've posted, and most all in the closet, we've a life that must come first. I'm single, so it would certainly be easier for me to migrate to the real world than those of you with families. And although I'd transition to womanhood in a heartbeat it I were to win the lottery, the career I built for myself would simply not allow this. The bear of it is that I LOVE my 20+ year career and have many people counting on me. You'll have to trust me on this, coming out is not an option. It's not a matter of guts, it's a matter of survival and fulfilling the commitments I have made. If I had things to do over, could go back and have a long talk with my much younger self, I would likely have done things much differently and had perhaps been able to carve out a life in which I could openly be the woman I feel myself to be, may even have transitioned completely. But the paint has dried on more than my nails and it's a closeted life for me. However, this is not a sad thing, not a gutless thing… it's just what has come to be and I have not only accepted this, but relish so much my private world, like these Saturday mornings when I can roll out of bed, become as gorgeous as the lighting will allow, and share my thoughts with kindred spirits. And for those who want more from me, those with an agenda all their own… well, to quote Mr. Dylan "go away from my door and my window too." :battingeyelashes:

I vote for personal choice, choice to stay in or step out, a little or a lot. Our choices may be driven by marital status, career, location, faith, appearance, time of life, you name it. In the end we all have to decide for ourselves and I do not spend a lot of time worrying about what others may say or feel. I do care about my wife and children and I choose to act accordingly. They know I dress, they have all seen me dressed, I do not suffer from any prohibitions on their part. Rather I choose to accommodate the family that is so precious to me. I dress when I want and go where I want within those accommodations and it works well for me. I do not feel that I am missing out and I am not interested in calling any more attention to myself en femme than I am in drab. "To thine own self be true", and if I might add, all of thine self.

You live your life as you see fit, I'll do the same, and we'll all have rich and fulfilling lives. Anne, You go girl!

Here is the question though.

Would you ever have gone into "the closet" or felt compelled to hide were it not for ignorance, bigotry, and in many ways stupidity?

I know for sure that I would not. If my mother was not so closed off to the idea of men gaining the same style freedom as women, I would wear skirts almost on a daily basis.

It is a product of fear. As much as you may like that closet, you most likely would never have even thought of staying in it had it not been for the fear factor.

Paranoia is another factor. I'll admit it, I suffer from that...badly.

If every Gay individual wanted to stay in the closet do you think they would have gotten anywhere?

The thing is I have read people here use the term militant. I am offended by that word, because I am one that can fit that description. Militants, or radicals are almost always the ones to change things, but they also need to be in greater numbers. If everyone stays in the closet, this will never ever be. I have heard one of the reason the Gay comunity does not support as much is mainly due to the fact we hide. Why should they support a group that is unwilling to support themselves? That is the gist of what I have read and heard.

Personally I want ALL cders to get out of that damndable closet, and show themselves, and by all I include all those NOT on this forum, including FtoMs. I think the numbers would be shocking.

I have said it before, and I will again. Hiding helps no one in the long term. All that it does is perpetuate the BS.

My mom went and visited my school in tennis outfits....the bullies beat me up for that, along with my montgomery Ward bike, my "cheap" shoes, my red hair, my squeaky voice, and what have you. Kids are little bast turds for the most part, and will bully for the slightest thing. So as unbelievable as it may seem, your crossdressing being revealed to the bullies would just be a drop in the bucket of things to bully about. Have you thought that maybe, just maybe the kids at the school may think it is cool? Wild shot, but ya never know. (Oh and even after it was identified that one of the reasons why I got bullied was due to my mother, she didn't stop, why should she? She had every right to wear what she wanted....and I defended that right even when I was that young)

Now my stance on the closet deal is only my opinion, and my wish. I am not trying to force anyone to get out, and I don't think you are "sackless" (can we use a more polite term like spineless please?), but I do think that you as am I are ruled by fear.

Nicely said, Pythos.

I too wish we could ovoid using a word like "sackless"

S

Everybody knows in this forum that I am not in the closet and if you don't know, well then you need to catch up...LOL!!!

I personally believe with and agree with the original poster. It takes a whole lot of guts to stay in the closet and the fact that life is good in the closet is all that matters. As long as they are happy, then that is also all that matters. For some, happiness is the reason we do what we do and to complicate that, why should we. I personally find happiness being with friends outside, enjoying myself while dressed and that makes me happy. So, if your happy being in the closet, then good for you and congrats having a SO who accepts you and allows you to be who you want to be at home. Plus, good on you for not be self-centered to threaten all that you have in your life.

For those who push others to be out, then shame on you. If I recall and remember the first time and reasons why I was in the closet prior to getting out, they were the same reasons as the OP. Don't push anyone, don't force anyone, don't ridicule anyone, because Karma is a big betch and that ridicule will come back to you 10 fold. Not only that, you have to look at how you are presenting our community. If you go out in very short mini-skirt wearing high hooker heels and being very obnoxious, even I will ridicule you because you are making us look like crap. I would rather you try to look your best and feminine, then look trashy as some girls do. Those trashy girls or CDs that are out of the closet are the worst and need to be put back in the closet. Just my 2 cents.

OP, good on you for what you have stated. Keep being strong. :)

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All of these jobs have strict grooming and uniform policies for both their male an female employees. They dictate such things as style and length of socks permitted, length of hair, types and limits on jewelry worn, visability of tattoos, etc... Are these policies illegal?

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Illeagal? No.

Complete and total BS....yes. Uniform I can see. Hair lenth, sock length, tatoos, for a civilian ageny no. Usually in the hazardous situations these individuals are helmeted, so hair length should not matter. Sock length? That is a new one. Tatoos do not in any way affect how the person is free to move. Now I can see gang tatoos being banned, but tatoos in general? No.

As far as slow backup based on one's percieved sexual orientation (cause you know if a man crossdresses he must be gay, which is what this macho BS is really based on), I think would raise a big stink, and if the officer, or firefighter, died along with civilians, you can be the slow to respond individuals would lose their jobs.

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Originally Posted by Pythos

It is a product of fear. As much as you may like that closet, you most likely would never have even thought of staying in it had it not been for the fear factor.

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Some individuals do fear what it will do to their lifestyle. There have been a few high profile examples of this.

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Originally Posted by Pythos

If every Gay individual wanted to stay in the closet do you think they would have gotten anywhere?

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Some have managed to get to high postions in political life before being outed

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Originally Posted by Pythos

I have said it before, and I will again. Hiding helps no one in the long term. All that it does is perpetuate the BS.

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A lack of education pepetuates the BS not being in the closet

I applaud everyone who can do something to help make the wider community aware of who we are, and not just what they read in most newspapers

[SIZE="3"]1. I don't wish to look like a "man in a dress" or dress like the average woman my age. I HATE BLENDING! I want to look more like real women, but the WOMEN IN MY DREAMS! :D

2. I don't simply "thro on" a few girlie items. I plan each dressing session for days or weeks! Each session takes 3 or more hours to prep for. I couldn't do this very often and it wouldn't be SPECIAL if I did!:straightface:

3. When I dress, I dress FOR ME ALONE! I don't EVER HAVE TO CONSIDER WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS! That means never having to compromise my look!:devil:[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]
4. When I DO go out dressed with other girls, out of consideration I dress vanilla to BLEND! And, I ALWAYS feel like I'm a spy in a disguise! Because THAT'S NOT WHO I AM! I'm Sherry! I'm: ridiculous, sublime, sexy, wild, crazy, famous, beautiful, semi-nude, classic, classy, classless, ANYTHING but vanilla!:eek:

So, I admit I'm a COWARD! That I'm afraid! Afraid of MYSELF and afraid CDing may become ordinary, common, normal, something other than the VERY SPECIAL activity it is for me now!:sad:[/SIZE]

And, if THAT'S what dressing is for u well then, I'm sorry! All I can say is, "Good for u"!:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Violetgray

I refuse to believe it when people say they love their closet.

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I have read similar posts from you in the past expressing your belief. I have much respect for you, and how you present yourself and your ideas on this forum, but I have yet to fully grasp or understand what your belief is rooted in. Why is it so difficult to believe that one can love one's closet? I love and enjoy many different things in life. I do not share everything I love and enjoy with others. Some things I do share, other things I do not. But just because I do not share certain things, does not mean that I cannot love whatever it is. Do you share everything you love and enjoy with others? Or do you have a few things that you love doing just by yourself, or with a very small, select group of people? If so, do you love it any less because you are not sharing what may otherwise be a very personal, yet quite satisfying and enjoyable activity?

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Originally Posted by AliceJaneInNewcastle

To the people who do want to go out but are too fearful of the perceived consequences to do so, I and others here try to show that most of the fears that stop them are irrational.

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I have no doubt some fears are irrational. Some fear the outside world, and some within the outside world fear us. Obviously, fear is not limited only to the world of the transgendered. You name an issue or a topic, and somebody out there fears it. But not every fear is irrational. Some fear is legitimate, and based in reality. The reality upon which my fear, regardless of the issue, may not be someone else's reality.

Certainly, however, I acknowledge that I do suffer from certain irrational fears. One such irrational fear I have is shopping for women's clothes and makeup myself in stores. I have recently worked hard to overcome this fear, based upon the positive support and encouragement I have received here. Had a member simply told me that I lack "guts" and a "sack" because I am too fearful of shopping, I doubt that I would have even made the attempt, much less actually went through with it like I have. Other fears that I have, such as fears relating to my employment and my wife's employment are anything but irrational.

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

There is a place for those who act as advocates (well there had better be or I have wasted my life) but those of us who take on such a role have no right to look down on those for whom we claim to be acting as advocates.

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Very well stated, Riana! And know that your advocacy is very much appreciated!

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

There are times that I wish I had never ventured out of the closet. My wife has now lost at least two friends that she attributes to me. In addition she tells me that she is reluctant to make new friends because of what I am. The rational part of me knows that she is using me as an excuse, but still, I sometimes wish that I hadn't given her the excuse.

For about a year I was a manager at my company - right up until the wrong person found out about me and made it a point to tell everyone to include our director. Less than a month later I was told that they needed my skills more as an engineer than as a manager, and I was pretty much given the choice - go back to being an engineer or go unemployed. The good news is that I hated being a manager anyway, but still . . .
My (almost) eight year old daughter knows about me. So far it hasn't complicated her life, but who knows what will happen later.

There are MANY days when I wish I had kept my mouth shut, kept my head down, and lived a "normal" life. Lived a life where I hadn't complicated my career, hadn't made my wife's life harder, and didn't risk serious complications to my daughters social life. If your instincts tell you that you should stay in the closet, then do what your guts and your heart tell you to do, and to hell with what anyone else thinks. In the end it is you and your family that make these choices and that live with the consequences.

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For Kimberly, unfortunately, coming out has not worked so well for her. It would not work so well for me, either. No one here can judge another's circumstances without first really knowing what those circumstances are. There are many success stories here, but there are also stories of failure, tragedy, and/or regret. I want to be as much of a success story as I may be, but without taking unnecessary or irresponsible risks, thereby dramatically increasing my chances of becoming just another story of tragedy. I simply have too much on the line, and I refuse to risk it. But even beyond that, I cannot state this enough - I simply have no desire to come out! I love my closet! Thank you, Kimberly, for sharing your story and thoughts on this. Relating such a story to others certainly takes coourage in and of itself, and there is much to be learned when considering such stories, along with their more positive counter-stories.

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Originally Posted by Shelly Preston

We are individuals brought together because of crossdressing

It is an individual choice made after receiving as much information as we can give them.

We are not hear to judge anyone we are hear to support them in anyway we can.

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Hear hear!!!!

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Originally Posted by Christina Horton

You don't need guts to go out.... You need the want or desire to go out.

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EXACTLY!!!! Some of us have the desire, some of us do not!

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Originally Posted by Stephenie S

I too wish we could ovoid using a word like "sackless"

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Not my word. If you will note in the OP, the member I quoted stated that I lack "guts," and that those like me do not have a "sack." Obviously, such terms are offensive. At least, in the context in which the words were utilized, I found the words offensive. All I have done here is express my opinion, quoted the member, and put the issue out here for discussion and debate. :) But I am otherwise with you on this.

Anne, your post was very well thought out and well written. Thank you. I think the majority of CDers on this forum agree with you. All of our situations vary from one CDer to the next and each of us has the right to "present" as much or as little as we want. I'm suprised I haven't seen any negative responses yet. (The militants may still be asleep after a long night of public appearances at MAC, ULTA, VS...)

For anyone on this forum to be called out another as "gutless" or "lacking sack".... is to be perfectly honest IMO a forum violation. (Oh wait... as long as it's a collective insult... it's just an opinion and allowable)

To those of you who are out. Congratulations. I truly mean it. I respect you all. Please however, take a step back with your "Raise Awareness" arguments.

I (and I'm sure many others) don't expect anything from society in regards to the acceptance of mainstream crossdressing. I personally don't care if it's accepted by society or not. If I choose to crossdress... that's my decision. If I choose to remain "closeted" if I crossdress... that's also my decision. Stop badgering others, because you feel that CDers need to collectively unite and those that don't are "less" of a crossdresser or crossdressers that don't need support, such as on this forum, from time to time.

Because here's the thing... if you're staring at your CPU, laptop or smart phone reading this AND and you're wearing panties... you're a crossdresser. Here's your sign...

DL

Pythos asks, "If every gay individual wanted to stay in the closet do you think they would have gotten anywhere?" The logic of her question doesn't apply to Anne, who isn't talking about "every" crossdresser, but merely about "some" cds. There will always be militants among gays, cds, African Americans and other repressed people. Good for them! But to conclude that every single member of the group is required to be militant is unreasonable and inhuman.

Pythos also repeats her belief that the root cause of closet-living is fear. Because she doesn't explore that charge, she leaves the impression that she's talking about personal fear, ie, cowardice. But what about fear for one's family, spouse and children, work colleagues, finances, professional status, and one's effectiveness in many other fields other than crossdressing? People carry responsibilities that often limit their freedom. This is not cowardice. It often amounts to courage.

Imho Everyone is in some sort of closet... Real or of their own making. Some big and some small...

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Originally Posted by Jamie001

Have you considered that these dress codes may be illegal? If women are allowed to wear earrings and long hair, then the same must be allowed for men otherwise it is considered discrimination.

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Maybe there is a claim that a dress code is illegal, but lets face reality, if you expect to succeed professionally, you have to meet certain standards. I wear a tie to work not because it is such a great accessory, but to not do so sends a message that you refuse to meet minimal standards. I have known people in my line who have transitioned in the work place, but it didn't help their advancement. There is validity to the phrase "dress for success".

Some of us have commitments to family etc. that cause us to prioritize out lives. To those who subordinate their TG expression to support their family and meet their commitments, I say BRAVO! To me, that is truly a selfless act. To those who have decided to live openly or have transitioned, I am amazed at your courage. But please don't judge others by the decisions they make, cerainly not before understanding their motivation and circmstances.

In the past few months I have noticed an unpleasant undertone on these boards where lines are being drawn between us. There is no Varsity here, we are all just people trying to find peace in our lives. Lets be respectful to all.

Sorry I'm late to the crucification. I just saw this thread.

I've made my points in the other thread so I'll just say a few things here:

1. I NEVER personally attacked anyone; meaning I NEVER said Anne, didn't have guts or lacked "sack". Those were general comments that she took personally because of her closeted situation.

2. I NEVER said or forced or pushed anyone to come out of the closet. In fact, I told Anne to stay in the closet. But I correctly pointed out that the more of us which go out, the better our collective position in society will be.

3. I admitted we ALL have crossdressing fears, including myself.

4. Finally, I will never believe that anyone who spends hours getting dressed is fulfilled, never having left the home. I know some of you say you are, but then, in direct contradiction, Anne said she'd love to go out with shaved legs and toenails. How do you reconcile those remarks? There are WAY too many ecstatic "first time out" posts here for me to believe its not the ultimate goal.

In retrospect, I am sorry for using inflammatory language because I'm being made the insensitive a$$hole now. I am not sorry for my beliefs but it doesn't mean I don't understand the fears of the closeted.

Ok, I'm done with this thread.

Peace.

I have been out some, but I'm mostly a home alone dresser. Other than my wife knowing, I'm in the closet.
It's great that some cd's can transform and look authentically female, wearing activity-appropriate and currently-stylish cothes, shoes, hair, and makeup. Not me. I guess I could, but I don't really want to. This cd prefers the over-the-top style. I dress for the mirror. I like what I see, but I wouldn't if I had to tone it down. I love short skirts, very high heels, heavy makeup, long eyelashes, dark red lips and painted nails to match. This is how I dress.
See me in the grocery store and you'd be screaming "My God, STAY HOME !! - you're not helping crossdressers' public image!"
So I'll stay in the closet. You're welcome.

Sorry, you can all say and think what you want, but for me, Yes I'm in the closet, and it's by choice. I've tried going out and I'm just not comfortable out and about as a female. I don't like it, I don't want to do it, and yes I can spend hours getting myself fixed up, but it's just for me. If the rest of you want to go out and March for equality that's nice, I'll be on the side lines cheering you on, but no I won't join you. I don't owe it to you or anyone else, to do it. But I know what it would do to my wife, and her reputation among her friends (most over 60) and I'm not sure what it would do with my religious son and daughter in law, and if I would still be allowed to see my grandkids. Sure if it was a prefect world I would love to venture out, but I will hold off until that predict world is found. It's easy to stand around and tell someone else they have nothing to lose, as long as it's someone elses nothing, and not your own. Janis Joplin sang, freedom is having nothing left to lose, well I feel I have to much to lose to be that free.
Tina B.

Gutless, ****less....to each their own. Noone here knows what anyone else is going through except themselves. To label someone else as gutless when you don't know their situation? It's.........gutless :) just my :2c:

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Originally Posted by Duana

Sorry I'm late to the crucification. I just saw this thread.

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Duana, I'm just seeing this now as well, and I've also responded to you in the other thread, but I want to add something here.

The most successful posters are the ones who can get their own points across while also acknowledging other people's positions. If they can do this, they don't put other people's backs up against the wall and the listener may well consider what is said with a more open mind. But it does take a certain amount of empathy to do this. People have to be able to imagine themselves in other people's shoes, or at least acknowledge that human psychology is infinitely more complex and varied than their own personal experience and motives. This is hard to do for most of us, it certainly is for me, since we really only do fully understand our own motives, our own way of looking at things.

Your point about not believing that any person who gets fully dressed is not fulfilled by staying home - I think there is something you aren't considering. My SO was in this spot for several years. He is single, he doesn't have a wife or kids holding him back, he has lots of freedom with his employment. Yet, he still had to overcome certain barriers before being ready to go out. I don't think he would have qualified it as "fear". He just wasn't ready. Simple as that. There were internal questions he needed answering for himself. He didn't beat himself up over it, he didn't resent not going out since it was his choice to stay in. He was happy with the CDing as it was and she did dress fully. And when she did start going out using baby steps, she gave herself lots of leeway including permission to leave the premises if she felt uncomfortable. She knew she would continue to grow or change as needed. Or not. In other words, he gave herself permission to just go with the flow. His other consideration was to strike a balance. This was probably his biggest priority and it still is.

Not everyone has the same need to be seen for a multitude of reasons. Fear might be a valid reason for some of the members here, especially the ones who say they do resent staying closeted. But, fear is not the reason for those who are happy in their male lives and who do not wish to change it, or the balance in their lives, and especially if they feel they know and understand their own environments. It's a question of priorities, not fear.

Anne. Rianna just told me in another thread, where I got upset at some people for only being able to see their own viewpoints, that I mustn't get upset by this. It will happen, it is human nature, and I shouldn't let it get to me. I guess you needed to start this thread to get it all off your chest, but leaving a pointed remark in the other thread as you did would have been enough, IMO. :)

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Originally Posted by Jocelyn Quivers

For some of us, our employers have very strict dress code policies which do not allow any variation from the normal male presentation, this can include having no long hair, nail polish, ear rings etc. In other words you must appear as a "100% guy" :2c:

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My job allows either gender to wear a skirt. I thought it was awesome and am sad no one really takes advantage of presenting as a man while wearing a skirt. I've been at jobs like that though. I did not enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Anne2345

...Oddly enough, I also just happen to love myself, accept myself, and thrive within the life I have created for myself. What more can I ask for? ...

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Hi Anne.

This wonderful statement attracted my attention most.
For me, it simply outshines the subsequent (and useful) debate about consideration, respect and support from other Crossdressers.

I think that Crossdressing allows us all to see ourselves as the "beautiful, caring and loving" people we strive to be.

:love:Gaby