I’m getting really sick of this…

Bravo, Freddie! Well said. I have previously put forth the proposition that it is patently wrong for a few adventurous individuals to place the burden of guilt for all of society's stereotypical attitudes towards crossdressing on the shoulders of those who prefer to remain private about it all. In fact, it is a little shocking to realize that some here actually bear venom towards closeted individuals even though they cannot possibly know everyone else's unique situations.

In your hypothetical jaunt around town, you failed to make sure you called all of your relatives so they could become enlightened as well. That way they could all be waiting for you on your front porch with warm embraces for you when you returned, all basking in the glow of new understanding and tolerance. You could show them your favorite outfits while you prepared a wonderful afternoon meal for them to enjoy with you while everyone holds hands, sings Kumbayah, and smiles the warm smiles that only new-found knowledge and understanding can bring. Maybe the neighbors would come over with their kids with a warm peach cobbler for everyone to enjoy.

But nooooooo....... You have to stay closeted, don't you? Just remember that that road construction worker who just got off work and is sitting down at the local watering hole having a Budweiser in his sleeveless flannel shirt that allows him to show off his many tattoos only holds on to his preconceived ideas about "queers" because you refuse to go in there en femme, sit next to him on the barstool, and have a drink with him.

This isn't really a TS thing Melody..i get what you are saying, but this is about crossdressing

In any case, it's a moderated internet forum. It's totally reasonable for the OP to raise an issue and discuss it. If people get out of line, posts get dropped, threads get closed..

It's a debatable point between reasonable people. The people that care have an idea that if somehow we all gave up the closet, it would somehow make life better for everyone...increase acceptance, etc..

Some folks with this point of view seem pretty arrogant and high minded about it(to the point of being thoughtless).. and folks that are in the closet are defensive about it...so it's a clash...

going out as a cd is an intense and personal experience, have people ever considered that a huge % of the cd population simply has NO INTEREST in being seen or sharing their hobby with others? To me this is a major blindspot in the discussion...

i think in the end, frederique you are wasting your breath bringing this up, but it's your breath, and I know I waste alot of breath around these parts too...........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by busker

Frédérique, i've quit lurking and logged on just to say BRAVO. I couldn't agree with you more. There does seem to be a lot of one-upsmanship going on lately.

---

BRAVO is right Frédérique. 99% of this site's content is meaningless banality. Repeat ad-infinitum. "Gee when's the last time you dressed up" blah blah blah. Argue argue argue. Regardless of how much this site may have helped certain people, for me it's almost a complete waste of time, which is why I've pretty much given up on it. I dress up when I want (or can), in the manner that I want, for as long as I want. What other people think about it, well, who cares. No point in getting worked up over it. Nobodys business but mine. As what other people do is their business, and none of mine. New England upbringing to the rescue. Best of luck.

Well Freddy,

You have been around here just about as long as I have. One thing I've noticed is that the same old topics always keep popping up again as new people hit the forum. No point to getting upset about it. ;)

I find it very ironic that there are some members here who suggest that the only way to gain wholesale tolerance from others is by going out in public and educating the world about us by doing so. Yet these same people are completely intolerant of those of us who choose to remain private. I would think the first step towards teaching tolerance would be to have some yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TGMarla

Yet these same people are completely intolerant of those of us who choose to remain private.

---

You really think so? If you are referring to me personally here then while I might offer a different opinion
from another viewpoint, I am not trying to change anyone or disrespect their decisions - hell if you want
to make life harder on yourself, then who the hell am I to stand in anyone's way? if you want to stay in
the closet, then stay in the damn closet if that is what really floats your boat. FFS! :daydreaming:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TGMarla

I find it very ironic that there are some members here who suggest that the only way to gain wholesale tolerance from others is by going out in public and educating the world about us by doing so. Yet these same people are completely intolerant of those of us who choose to remain private. I would think the first step towards teaching tolerance would be to have some yourself.

---

Well said Marla... the posts of some people do suggest intolerance and lack of respect for the choices of others, often who are in very different circumstances. Sadly, even after the debate this continues to be the case.

As new people join the forum, the debate will always reappear, but I do find continued intolerance of others somewhat disheartening, especially amongst this community.

Hi Freddy
I've got your point.
I've already said I'm an avid follower of your posts.
But take a deep breathe honey.
And please don't go away from people who loves you.
Hugs,
Marcia

Freddy, you go girl !!! I'am with you -- and frankly I have better things to do than read long winded repetitive rants -- and as I've said before "t'aint nobodys business but my own" we are here for support!! not CDing theology.............Debra

*runs to get popcorn*

Goodness gracious this is good stuff! Freddy makes a thread about the threads that she hates, people from those threads that she hates continue the discussion here. This is prime time entertainment value right here. Forget the so called drama on TV, this blows it out of the water!

Rather than say "Can't we all just get along?" how about "Can't we all just think about the perspective other people present, even if we don't agree with them or have found them to be wrong in our experience?" Goodness gracious people! This is a diverse community with many "truths" for each person. If you can't relate to it, walk away and just say "I do not relate to that". Stop walking the line of black and white, and take a step into the grey every now and then. You'll be amazed at what you find there. Not everyone came here to have "special time". To quote one of my favorite science fiction villains, "Be grateful, or be silent".

I understand exactly where some of you are, with "special time" and have listened to how you feel about it all. It helped me realize that I didn't want to go where you are, meaning the fact that your life has gone far enough as a man that he can't be totally removed and replaced, even if you wanted to, without major problems for you and your family. Most of us try to be tolerant of your ideas and situation. Be tolerant of ours and the continuation of topics that maybe you've seen a million times and do not want to see anymore. Just because it's old to you, or wrong to you, doesn't mean that is the case for everyone.

Well put Kaitlyn!

Hugs

<sarcarstic_admin>

Ooh gosh, maybe all the MTF's should dance around their handbags singing Kumbaya, holding hands and all getting along... now let me burst that little bubble of yours Freddy and bring you back into the real world, where people aren't always going to agree, like each other, get along etc etc... This is a forum, people can post whatever they like as long as it's within the rules. If you don't like what people post, it's really quite simple... move along to the next thread where they are all sitting around the camp fire singing Kumbaya and join in with them ok? :D

</sarcarstic_admin>

<additional_sarcasm>

Coming from someone who created another account and argued with themselves on the board in different threads, POT, KETTLE, BLACK... comes to mind!!

</additional_sarcasm>

Interesting topic..I've been a member of the local VFW here for many years, and about a year ago, joined the American Legion here...They'd shit themselves if I showed up for a meeting en femme..as it is my bald tattooed head and earrings raise a few eyebrows...I'm a Viet Nam vet and a crossdresser, and a recovering alcoholic...but I see no reason to reveal all this to everyone in my life..It would complicate things enormously, not to mention stun, and hurt many people...I like things as they are..My wife knows(what a relief that is)...a few friends do (women)...but , I am in cognito as far as my feminine side goes, for everyone else...I like it that way..smooches all Jackie

Maybe this will help you. :devil:


Attachment 162551

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

[SIZE="2"]Speaking of the different genres in art, I am a visual artist, and I automatically like all artists, no matter what level of expertise they may demonstrate, or what type (or school) of thinking they may adhere to. I COULD go out in public and give a talk about art – I may even be able to convince a few stoics that art is a worthwhile activity, but, much like I do with my crossdressing, I would rather stay at home, in my studio, creating images that give me great pleasure. Other, more outgoing artists wouldn’t dream of chastising me for my insular lifestyle, so why can’t the “out” crossdressers understand the closeted variety? I don’t get it...
:idontknow: [/SIZE]

---

This is true for me also. I've been a musician (string instruments, mostly banjo, ukulele) for over 40 years and I can count the times on one hand I've played in public. After 40 years of constant practice, I'm pretty good. No brag, just fact. My wife (she plays fiddle) and I once entered a bluegrass "battle of the bands" contest on a whim. We were competing against some very good bands but we won first prize (and some $$$). That told me I have no reason to be ashamed of my abilities and that people enjoyed our playing. Yet, their approval did nothing for me. I don't do it for them, I do it for my own satisfaction. It's the same with crossdressing. My wife, on the other hand, loves to perform. She'll play in orchestras, chamber music, studio work, weddings and her regular gig in a rock band. Then she'll come home and play hillbilly music with me. But, she never practices alone. I don't try to keep her at home and she doesn't try to drag me out of my musical closet. Yet, somehow our temperaments still intersect at times. And it is good.

Might as well jump in... My crossdressing is extremely personal and is not a social cause. I'm on my own. I dress for myself. I honestly don't care if I'm understood by strangers. Again, I dress to please myself, not for applause of others.

I take it one step further, in fact. I enjoy shocking others to a small extent. It's a rush. Being "read" is not a bad thing. The last time I posted that idea on this forum a few months back, there followed all sorts of holier-than-thou posts to the effect of "I crossdress because it's who I am" and "I don't do it for a thrill." We'll guess what, it's who we all are! Why else would we put ourselves through this pain?

But my point is that I'm neither responsible for the social acceptance of crossdressing nor the hate of those who misunderstand me. I just do whatever the **** I feel like.

Wow, Freddy! Slow down, take a deep breath, count to ten!

I belong to several sites, boards, whatever you want to call them. Over time, nearly all concerns, issues, wishes, fears,
needs, wants, etc. are repeated in one form or another. On one site to which I belong, I rarely read anything posted by one
person. There is a great diversity among the members on this (as well as most sites). Thus, many different opinions, etc.
will be expressed.

There will be many posts with which I will disagree or wonder what is that person thinking? There will never be total
agreement as to what action (or non-action) is best, as everyone's situation is different. I can choose whether or not I have
a response that would be helpful and respond. I can read the post and decide to do nothing. I can ignore the post. I can post
a reply that expresses why I disagree. In all cases, I try to determine what will be best in the long run. Sometimes I make the
right decsion and sometimes not.

Freddy, is it the debate that is bothering you, or is it your perception there is a significant amount of people who despise the closeted CDs? If you read the threads carefully you'll see that most CDers agree with you. It's not much of a debate, actually.

Surely you can't expect that some members, giddy with having first come out or having first worn their short skirts and painted toenails in public, won't believe this is the best solution for everyone else? It is their right to post their thoughts. Maybe they do live in areas where CDing is largely accepted. Or, maybe they live in largely anonymous urban areas where people just don't care and they can't fathom what it must be like for someone living in a small conservative town. Or, maybe they've been struggling with repression for years, until it burst and they don't care what people think anymore. Maybe they have thick skins. Or maybe they are in pink fogs.

Regardless of their personal situations, have a closer look at the responses. The bulk of CDers agree with you, and it makes sense that the majority of TSs believe it is best to come out. I would too if I were TS. Also, it is true that fear is a real reason to not come out, for those CDs and TSs who resent having to stay in, and it was likely the OPs reason as well for many years. This is not the case for everyone and it is obvious that for many others, staying in is a question of priorities, for a number of reasons. And NO ONE can determine the motives for anyone else.

No one is telling you that "should" leave the closet. I do agree with the others in this thread who suggest you ignore the members here whom you believe are inflexible in their beliefs. They will follow their own paths and either come to be fully out and be exceedingly happy, or they will eventually crash and burn, or their initial excitement will wear off and they will reach a place of calmness with it all.

Some of us here are just men who enjoy wearing womens clothing,maybe even some make up or hair. But that is as far as we like to go! Others here are much deeper into CDing ,so deep that they feel they are women and wish to openly express themselves in that manner.

Why drive a wedge between the two? I agree with the OP and I see no reason why others wish to promote, belittle or shame anyone to get out of their closet. It's a safety net for some of us who do not wish to expose our behaviour , I can not understand why this is allowed to continue to happen in this forum. I guess ( just a stab ) the only reason why could be those who allow actions by members to belittle other members could only have to agree maybe due in part they themselfs feel they are women/men and need to tell the world about, it because it's such a fantastic thing ,who knows?
Exposure for some of us is out of the question, we live our lives mostly in male mode and we have no desires of making any sexual idenities changes ..In short ....We like who we are !!

I think some of those that think all CD/TG/TS's should be out of the closet and then throw stones at those of us that are not completely out of the closet, are very bitter, angry and lonely souls. Much like the TG that came into my store last week. She was warmly greeted at the front door by one of our GG associates. She totally ignored the greeter and continued toward the back of the store. She then was approached by one of our sales associates and asked if there was anything he could help her find. This Bytch said, "I wish the phuck you people would just leave me the hell alone". This is the type of person that does not care what anyone thinks of her. Definitely a chip on her shoulder and not a very friendly or happy person. I feel sorry for them. Whereas they feel nothing for anyone but themselves.

Hi Frederique,

That's a very eloquent post. It would be a shame if you were to leave, since we need those that can pose the challenging questions.

From your post I can understand why you feel unable to go out dressed and perhaps that's why, at least in part, that you feel so aggrieved about others posting that you should. On your part you should accept that everyone here has a right to their own opinion, you don't have to read their posts or agree with them. On the other hand, perhaps we should all consider the feelings of others when making our own posts. We all know that going out dressed is not practical for many and that berating them for not doing so is only likely to add to any dysphoria they already feel.

Freddy, I agree with Carhill... maybe it's time to take a break, do something else "productive", whatever brings
you maximum satisfaction.

Stevie, Right on. Although I have been on stage at least a thousand times over a 50 year period, I have reached the point that I no longer play to other's expectations. To do so would dishonor my gift, such as it is.

I "cut my teeth" in the real world with CDing, and have come to conclusions that differ with many here. I dress, first and last, for me only, or on rare occasions for a close circle of friends who have a similar point of view.
____________________


Edit. OK Reine, will do. Your action was right and proper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

... I can not understand why this is allowed to continue to happen in this forum. I guess ( just a stab ) the only reason why could be those who allow actions by members to belittle other members could only have to agree maybe due in part they themselfs feel they are women/men and need to tell the world about, it because it's such a fantastic thing ,who knows?

---

Your stab was totally in the dark. This forum allows debate and individual expression of opinion, censoring is not taken lightly and unless a post breaks the rules then there is no reason to remove it. TBPH your post in itself could be seen as critisising the moderators, which in itself is not allowed on the open forum. A number of the moderators on this forum are GGs, what benefit would they gain by "needing to tell the world".

As a moderator I read a lot of things on this forum that I do not agree with, understand the reason for or even have no interest in, should I close/delete them because of my personal preferences, nope I do what most members do, read it (cos its my role) then move on. Why not try doing the same next time you read a thread/post the you think is belittling.

Frederique,

Assuming I have read your post correctly, I agree with most of what you have to say. Whether a person chooses to stay in the closet or walk down main street wearing five inch heels, a mini-skirt, and a flame red bouffant drag queen wig is purely a matter of individual preference. Since we all share, to a greater or lesser degree, a personality trait which is neither well understood nor generally condoned by society, we should not engage in internal strife in the community. No one has a "duty" to be a spokes person for any viewpoint at the risk of their personal safety and reputation.

However, I feel compelled to observe, after reading your rather detailed account of your imaginary "stroll" past the elementary school, wellness center, city hall, "watering hole," police station and VFW post, that your situation in a small town in central Kansas is much more difficult and constraining than many of us face. It's makes me appreciate how much easier, and how much less of a statement it is, for me to take a walk down Second Avenue in androgynous mode than it is to do the same thing in the heart of America.

Good luck, and thanks for your thoughts.

[QUOTE=Nigella;2564764] Why not try doing the same next time you read a thread/post the you think is belittling.[/QUOTE

The fact of the matter is Nigella..... I do move on 90% of the time ....I rarley comment on anything through out this oneside forum because of how it is fueled...So thanks for the advice...