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Couldn't agree more with this. if i don't feel like i can pass, then i don't go out. balancing a feminine side is hard work, and i don't want my memories with my feminine side to be people calling me a faggot or just generally being mean. i want them to be memories of having fun. my confidence is not bulletproof.Quote:
Originally Posted by kellycan27
[QUOTE I guess it's the Libra in me. :-)[/QUOTE]
For a lot of us just being able to go out and not be the butt of everyone's joke or stare is a major accomplishment. As far as "passing" a lot of us don't. But we will accept being able to blend in.
When u are 6ft and 275lbs and size 12 shoes it kinda hard to pass but then being that big who is gonna mess with me. I try to look as good as i can but i just put myself in the frame of mind that i do this for me and what someone thinks does not matter.It also helps that i drive truck so i can stay dressed half the time and go in places that i might never go again.
Passing is not made or broken just by a handful or traits, it is the totality of the presentation. It is voice, mannerisms, walk, how they are socialized, even the language and vocabulary they use. Big women are shaped different than big men, and walk and move differently than big men. A woman may have thin hair or be bald but she may still have the skin typical of a GG, her mannerisms are the same as other women her age, and her voice may be in the same register of other women her age she will still be taken as a woman. A woman can have a deep, growly voice and be tall but she still talks like a woman and moves like a woman and has the skin of a woman she will still be taken as a woman. A woman can have a lot of facial hair but won't have a beard shadow and rough skin of a man on her neck, she will still be taken as a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
I know a GG who weighs over 300 pounds, no one would mistake her for a man. I have known women with extremely short hair and no one would mistake them for a man. I have known women with extensive facial hair, and they would never be taken as a man. I have known tall women who would never be mistaken for a man. I have even known a few bald women over the years, and they would never be taken for a man.
In other words, of course GGs vary greatly, but in totality everything will almost always normally balance out. As trans, some of us have many physical irregularities as compared to the women above, not to mention we are used to moving our bodies different, we are socialized different (especially apparent in older women vs. younger women incidentally.) For many of us to truly pass, we require extensive work on many things, and it is so much more than just appearance or just a few attributes.
So, WHY are you even posting in this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaron
Self-conciousness was the very first thing I learned to understand about women from dressing up.
For those who want to 'pass' and try really hard it certainly isn't BS! I spent most of my life not accepting my 'Kaz' side and not trying... I was a bloke who for some reason liked to dress up. Then I started realising what this was really about and accepted it. Then it became important for me to go out. That meant that I wanted to 'not be noticed' as being a bloke in women's clothes. That led to the concept of passing and for me it isn't BS! But the pragmatist in me knows that I won't pass all the time... a) I will screw up sometimes and give the game away and b) there will always be somebody who will suss me out, no matter how good I am!
That's the deal! I worry about it a lot and have periods when I lack confidence (most of the time) but the days when I have the confidence, I do it and it works... WOW!
OK maybe I am lucky, but that luck comes with a lot of practice! And even if I am not fooling anyone at all, if I am accepted, that is all I need and all 'passing' is about in the end.
Heather,
You are so right, most don't pass except in their own mind, and that is ok.
Being Jenny for me is a matter of self-expression of a side of me that I think is my best side. I hope others also see that same thing, but if they don't, well, that is their misfortune becasue I know I am a much better person as Jenny.
Of course, reading all the comments, and looking at all the profile pics, I am just so pleased to say in my book you all pass..... as friend I know is a special community here in this forum!
Heather, I have to agree with you here not so much about the number of definitions of passing, but rather about how we think of ourselves. When I am out and about, my concern is comfort -- comfort in the way I look, and in making others comfortable with me. Confidence is a big part of this, and to echo Rachel, I do try to leave my masculine traits behind, as best I can. Whether others think I am female, or a guy who looks at least OK and is comfortable with his presentation -- and being at ease with others, I guess defines "passing" for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
I always pass when I go out.
I pass 110% as a man dressed as a woman although I do just about everything humanly possible to look my very best.
I totally pass.... as a comedic transvestite from an '80s UK telly show. That was me in Benny Hill!Quote:
Originally Posted by Prissy Girl
Passing is about neatness, blending in and CONFIDENCE.
I think passing is a necessary goal (aka blending) for very basic human reasons. Many of Maslowes Hierachy of Needs (Maslowe was a respected Phsycologist). Security and acceptance are inate needs of humans. Few want to go out and be disrespected for our appearance. My 2 cents. I know I can't pass but I strive to blend.
As Inna said, we dress, at least for me, to be seen as a woman, treated as a woman, and feel like a woman, as much as our masculine underpinnings allow us to understand what being a woman really is. Like a friend tells me, I pass at the 30 foot level. I've yet to shop in a womens boutique where the SAs didn't pick up on what is really underneath, but I have always been treated as a woman and afforded all their courtesies. So do the best you can, don't worry about the rest, and if you are accepted as a woman, then be happy.
In my opinion passing is a great deal more than wearing a dress or walking through a shopping mall. It is being able to be with people and to have them simply take it for granted that you are a woman.
Yesterday my spouse and I helped another woman with a garage sale. There were several volunteers there, including a mom and her two sons, ages around 9 and 13.
Since the mom is the daughter of someone we know, we've been with them for small bits of time in the past. They are completely unaware that there is anything "unusual" about me.
We were together for a couple of hours, helping with the sale, chatting, organizing things, and then folding unsold clothes and packing everthing away. I worked with her and the boys on bringing all of the heavy boxes back into the garage.
Later in the day we all got together again for dinner. Five women and the two boys. Everyone was laughing and having a good time. I even took pictures of the boys for their grandmother.
Sometimes I would ask the boys a question and, in the manner of boys they would answer with a word or two. Their mother would say, "Why don't you tell her more about -----." Her.
Passing is the culmination of endless hours of learning and trying, and of terrible times of frustration, anxiety, and pain. But it is made up of the most beautiful moments.
"The beauties of this world are best appreciated by those who strive to achieve them."
Hugs,
Persephone.
I am not even sure if I pass, but I'd like to think that I do... Occassionally. passing is all I strive to do. I don't want to be the poster child for male fashion liberation. I just want to buy cereal without being gawked at
I think the difference is that most men are raised to have at least some degree of respect for women. They may chuckle to themselves or elbow their buddies, but they probably won't say too much. There is no such degree of respect afforded to us. We're like Targets of Opportunity...Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
I had a course in which my professor started off with - everyone is getting an "A" grade. It was a management course and her intent was to focus on all of us learning to have better communications skills not on tests. (I got an "A" but I still don't communicate well) I think everyone welcomed the easy "A", but many of my classmates lost interest rapidly and complained more about that course than most others. There was no challenge, no reason to study, no reason to prepare. I admit that part of the excitement or thrill that we have crossdressing is the challenge to avoid detection - to "pass". If every CDer easily passed, how many might lose interest or reduce the preparation and care we put into our appearance? It is part of the enjoyment, the satisfaction. It is much different dressing in your bedroom than dressing and going to a mall or a movie or a club. Even if we lived in a perfect world, where everyone was treated with respect and accepted for who they are regardless of their appearance or sexual preference or beliefs, most of us would still want to "pass" or think we "passed" when we are dressed. It is important, as so many have pointed out in this thread. But I still want to encourage those of us who may never "pass" or those of us who may be afraid to explore and enjoy what their heart wants them to experience to not hold back simply because they are afraid of not "passing". We only have one life to live and we should live it fully as best we can.
We are the same size, except I'm 168 on a good day. I can converse though, and do converse with GGs in fastfood restaurants without sounding too bad, at about an octave higher and avoiding the resonance. But i wouldnt want to keep it up without formal training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Candice Mae
So for me it is not BS to pass, it is imperative to pass. That is what makes going out and communicating and actually socializing undetected THE challenge of our existence. Me thinks
I'll know if im successful when I've been out fifty times or more and can remain under the radar. Which I haven't done, but would me more than eager to try.
Too funny, but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inna
Ditto!Quote:
Originally Posted by Inna
But, whether u laff, ignore, look the other way, or want to date them, they ALL have one thing in common! They all PASS! Most of us don't!Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
Bev, I'm very sorry! But, u left out: sardines, marigolds, glue sticks, and Pluto, (the dog or the asteroid)! In my mind, they mean "passing as a woman" as much as the items u mentioned!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beverley Sims
I totally agree, I love dressing in female clothes and was very blessed by mother nature to be male with girl body to have very fem shape noticably wide hips and curves. So wearing girls/womens clothes and under dressing has become second nature since I got out of school, the fit and feel so comfortable and relaxing. A couple years ago I decided to take it all the way, got "B+" implants and need a bra now am a guy with all girl body but sill male but dress androgynously mostly. I live life as I feel at the moment and don't give a bother how others look at me or react. I'm not self consious in the least.
I normally don't post here, but I could not resist putting in a bit on this (all too common) subject. A few things about passing:
1. It is the gold ring you are reaching for, don't fool yourself otherwise
2. Kellycan nailed it, "I've never heard anyone who can pass say it is bullish#t..."
3. The problem with passing is that you do not know if you are, unless you are clocked. i.e., only when called out do you know if it worked or not, many people will not make a comment to you when they read you.
4. I'd suggest accepting "blending in" as your primary goal - it is way easier to do.
5. Strangely, passing gets easier the less you try, there is a zen to it.
Hi, Heather ,
Im going to change track here, For me its about being accepted for who i am as a person not what i look like or wear,
Now i wear clothes from two very different peroids / times & yes down the streets here In Waimate population of under 5,000 so its a close knit community, plus in two other towns 38,000 & 15,000 people,
My day clothes are normal as womens clothes go no make up no hair just lippy & eyebrow liner & head wear, suitable for a woman.
I'v traveled some 18,000 air miles plus other transport, & been dressed in my Renaissance garb = clothes, a very out there A striking outfit not the kind that would go unnotised fact is other than every one looking at me & one lady took my pic. im seen & looked at all the time.
Now why. Do i look like a woman or not. i am a woman though thats beside the point. As my pic shows me on my left, thats one of me That Jos took.
My disadvantage is my facial features are male hey no make up will help me at all plaster may . he he ......
I talk with many airline staff the Captan's & co pilot's pastport officers & others, so i think youll get the idear .
I dont pass or blend in as many would love to , gee no fun in that how bloody boreing ,
Yet i have something that goes far beyound the clothes or how i look. it has to do with my personality what im about, manirisems , how i interact with others my differences come in other ways, that my looks dont give me ,
My body as such is pretty good in shape size & how i look from that point weight & height ,
yet those many people & many others are more than willing to spend time talking being around me with out any hesitasion that i am normal, who they will see again ,
Iv been in Austraila & with a trans group i was in charge of photography for the group of 85 people yet i spent more time talking with others out side of our group who were there for other functions i was just in my normal womens clothes yet even the men were happy being around me & with thier wifes talking .
We need to look beyound our . ((( oh dear i dont look like a woman ))) well i sure dont yet look where i go & who i see. & talk to.......
Just as a laugh im thinking i should do lots of make up do my wig not sure what else any way & see if i fail in the pass & blend in detail,,,,, hey its not my stlye its just not me , im just natural & maybe i pass just being me ,
...noeleena...
For some of us, passing is critical. For some of us, it doesn't matter. We are walking down the TG road with different goals and ideas and more importantly, psychological and emotional needs. Some of us are happy at home dressed up, and some of us absolutely have to be out and about doing what nearly every other girl in the world does on a daily basis in order to feel fulfilled. Yes, to each his own, and yes, unless you are extremely fortunate to be petite, etc., passing is, as you say, BS, but confidence holds the key. Confident girls won't get read as often, and of course, if passing is the goal, going out means blending in. Modern women rarely wear dresses, and if they do, even they get more than the occasional glance. If you wanna pass, then ya better get some jeans, a simple top and skip the press on nails and overdone makeup and jewelry. Cuz sometimes, ya gotta dress down to dress up to pass, if you know what I mean.
I'm reminded of Lacey Leigh's comment from "Out and About": "A funny thing happens when you no longer care if get clocked -- it doesn't happen as often" (Her emphasis)Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleneT
My thoughts in a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by melissakozak