Why do men cross-dress

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Originally Posted by DanielleLee

Again... we're starting to see some of the deception / lying by omission debate. I agree... what's wrong is wrong. Not having told your spouse years ago or not telling a perspective spouse in this day and age is wrong. However it is understandable and more importantly forgivable. The whole attitude we as CDers face that we lied and because of it... we deserve whatever our spouses give us in return as a result of the omission when our spouses find out... I call BS on that.

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Just for fun, let's turn the tables a little bit here. You find an SO. You become a couple (maybe marriage but in any case you are together 16 years). Then you lose your SO. While you are together you ask if she was ever married. She says "no" so you don't ask about children. Yet when she dies, you find out she was married twice before and had two children, that she kept hidden from you. So is this a forgivable thing? She omitted the children during the whole time. She didn't lie about the children (you never asked) but she did lie about that marriages. Forgivable?

See this is in the same vein. Information, which could be of importance, was withheld. Knowing it though would change the dynamics of the relationship certainly, but offering that info allows the OTHER partner the right to decide how they feel about it. When you decide for them, you are controlling and it becomes a matter of trust. You assume you now what is best for them. Can you see where the anger comes from? Can you see where the loss of trust comes from? And yet you still think you know best....put yourself in their shoes for a minute. You trust your spouse then you find out that that trust was ill placed and then you wonder WHY they won't work with you?

Honestly I don't think that is the same vein. You asked a direct question and it was answered with a complete lie. If my wife would ever ask me point blank if I wear dresses, I would answer honestly. I think you're comparing apples to oranges here.

A very good point has been brought up several times for us 35 and over crowd.. I can only speak for myself but when I first started dating my wife I told her but many here didn't tell their S.O.s ...Many here thought it was a phase or something they could "just give up" but found that later in the relationship this wasn't going to go away..Many here didn't have a full understanding of themselves and this was long before the internet when they started..

I have read one of the responses in the article that a poster bought a book on transvestism and read it ..Yeah a book ! Before the internet we still had methods of learning .. For those who still hide this from your S.O.s after 25 years of marriage I offer no advice or suggestions that would guarantee acceptance .. You are the only one that can control this part of your relationship but when the wife finds out..I hope you have armed yourself with plenty of information that may help you help her understand..I am not judging anyone personally in anyway over this subject at all ..

Forgiveness can only be granted by the "wronged" party. Each situation is different. The example you cited Lorileah... yes, many men have forgiven that and... many men would not.

Even those that may not believe in God... understand what is behind the vows "For better, for worse"... At the end of the day... marriage and relationships are about comprise and love; and finding a way to move forward.

You'll note that I didn't say that an omission isn't wrong... I do believe it is. I just believe that any person should be able to understand why the omission occurred. Whether an "omission" is forgiven or not... that's up to the "wronged" spouse. Not anyone else.

I understand why telling or not telling a SO becomes a topic in a thread about why do men crossdress, but I think that understanding the why then lets us know how to tell not the other way around.

Maybe it would be easier if everyone just posted why they think they crossdress. There aren't any right or wrong answers, and certainly shouldn't be any judgement about the reasons as long as no one is hurting anyone with the behavior.

I have always had the desire to crossdress as long as I can remember. The act of crossdressing itself isn't that rewarding to me, but knowing that I look female makes me feel that I'm being authentic to myself in a way that looking male never did.

I guess 'men' cross-dress for reasons many & diverse. The question is irrelevant to me though. I act as I act, talk as I talk, move as I do & dress as I dress because I'm not a man. I'm a girl. Plain & simple.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Just for fun, let's turn the tables a little bit here. You find an SO. You become a couple (maybe marriage but in any case you are together 16 years). Then you lose your SO. While you are together you ask if she was ever married. She says "no" so you don't ask about children. Yet when she dies, you find out she was married twice before and had two children, that she kept hidden from you.

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That is an interesting analogy, but there is one fundamental difference between the crossdressing scenario and the marriage with children one. It is not a societal taboo to be married or to have children, in fact the opposite is true. Where the two are similar, though, is that the wife may have felt ashamed that she couldn't make the marriages work, and didn't want to scare off a potential husband, so she hid the truth. Depending on the ages, my concern would have been with her abandonment of the children. It is easier to hide a crossdressing habit than visitation with your children

Why do men crossdress? Well along the same line, why do some not?

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Originally Posted by mary something

I understand why telling or not telling a SO becomes a topic in a thread about why do men crossdress, but I think that understanding the why then lets us know how to tell not the other way around.

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Very good point Mary,

Lets look at other reasons that may or may not cause divorces.. Lets say I had no gambling issues or any drug / alcohol problems.. In fact I totally despised any who had these forms of weakness from the start of my relationship with my wife.. But 20 years down the road I developed these addictions ..Sure I drank from the start, socially, and did a little gambling every 5 years or so..

But these addictions have grown so much in time that it has become a problem for my marriage.. Now I know that cross-dressing and the "act of dressing" have very little or nothing to do with addictions( for most people who do it).. Do any of us really know why we do this well enough to explain why to someone else? For addictions. those can be easily explained and help is there if you ask for it but for dressing ...No for most of us we can not explain in a way that could be understood or accepted without knowing why we do it ..

We didn't start out this way in our marriage but we knew of it and we shrugged it off like it was something we could stop doing.. We then continue doing this and hiding it from those who are close to us until we are found out..Then we have some explaining to do what are the answers? How do you explain why men cross-dress?

I am out on this one for now.
I am into straight up honesty with my wife.
I will have to read and digest the contents for a while.
In the too hard basket for now.

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Originally Posted by Veronica27

That is an interesting analogy, but there is one fundamental difference between the crossdressing scenario and the marriage with children one. It is not a societal taboo to be married or to have children, in fact the opposite is true. Where the two are similar, though, is that the wife may have felt ashamed that she couldn't make the marriages work, and didn't want to scare off a potential husband, so she hid the truth. Depending on the ages, my concern would have been with her abandonment of the children. It is easier to hide a crossdressing habit than visitation with your children

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Without getting into the specifics, there WAS a societal taboo in 1965. But to let this rest, I have forgiven because of love which is what I think true love does with cross dresser spouses too. The point wasn't the marriage, it was the children. I wasn't given the opportunity to accept or reject them. It wasn't her decision to make.
And the OP asked the question "why do men cross dress?" but the OP wasn't in regard to physical or mental reasons. It started with the SOs feeling about it so technically the discussion here has been on track. It was all about Kay and what "Alan" responded.

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Originally Posted by FoxxxyBri

Understanding WHY people lie and condoing the lie are two different things.

At the end of the day, a lie is WRONG. Deceit is WRONG. Withholding the truth from someone you claim to love is cowardly and WRONG. Not telling everyone you know is understandable. But being cowardly about it to someone you are about to get serious with is inexcusable. Internet, new age culture or whatever else.

You'd get upset at any other instance of a partner withholding a major part of their self so why not this one? Blaming age is sort of an implication that older people dont have morals. The subject doesnt excuse the core point. That there is a lie being told to an intimate partner. I dont care if it's 1897. It's WRONG. And yes someone will say its easier said than done. But the truth has rarely been easy to begin with.

If you cant handle it then let the person go and keep the secret. I'd be highly pissed off if I were a woman and years later I find out my husband was a crossdresser. I'd dump his ass regardless. Not for the crossdressing but for lying to me. Because from what I've heard & seen. THe secret ALWAYS comes out. It would behoove you to be the one that tells it. Because having her find out from someone else will just make it worse.

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Bri,

I wholeheartedly agree with you , that a lie is a lie. And that yes, most long term CD/TG, that live the lie for years have done it for so long that it become a part of who they are. Is it right no, Is it justifiable no. As many, many posts here testify, it usually ends in divorce, Rarely does the BIG REVEAL ever end well. In my personal life I chose to be open and honest in any new relationship because I learned the hard lesson of what it costs. Fortunately for me , many years later I found someone who was open minded enough to look at the person and the character of the person. For her I am eternally grateful.

Was it cowardly ? Mayby, that's a judgement call from someone on the outside looking in. Was I fearful ? absolutely, When you have friends,family,therapists,church friends, pastors, telling you the evil,bad,horrible wretches that the TG 'lifestyle' is. Funny thing is , I did not feel like a evil,bad,horrible person. In fact I was a pillar of the my social, spiritual, family, business and local community. The depression brought on by hiding who I am drove me into depression.

Every generation seems to have some cultural point on which they pivot. Past generations have navigated the stormy waters to racial and sexual equality. My generation apperars to be the one that has successfully navigated the waters of the gay/lesbian revolution. I hope that the next generation will be successful in reducing if not removing the stigma that is associated with being transgendered.

I only tried to share my own story as to why I crossdress, not to make excuses for a character flaw. In short I crossdress because I am transgendered . One of these days some future generation will never have to answer that question, because it's like being asked why you are Black or White on any other color. It's how I was born ............ period.

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Originally Posted by DanielleLee

Forgiveness can only be granted by the "wronged" party. Each situation is different. The example you cited Lorileah... yes, many men have forgiven that and... many men would not.

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Um, I'm going to disagree with this. If you wait for the wronged party to forgive you, you put waaaay too much power in their hands. And if they're abusive, that's BAD.

Forgiveness starts with yourself. And you must do it FOR YOURSELF. After you've done that, you can seek forgiveness from someone else.

Lorileah's situation is similar to an abusive situation, believe or not. She was victimized, no doubts about that. So she has to first forgive herself for allowing herself to be victimized. Then, for closure, she has to forgive the wife in question. NONE OF THIS IS EASY.

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Even those that may not believe in God... understand what is behind the vows "For better, for worse"... At the end of the day... marriage and relationships are about comprise and love; and finding a way to move forward.

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God has nothing to do with those vows.... ;)

However, I disagree with the idea that relationships are "about compromise". Why would I get into a relationship where I have to give up things I want to compromise for what the relationship needs? Makes more sense to me to keep looking for a relationship that gives me what I want and where I can offer the other person what she wants.

Compromise boils down to two things:

* You each give up what you want and find a middle ground: nobody's happy.
* You do what I want in exchange for a nebulous promise to get what you want later.

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You'll note that I didn't say that an omission isn't wrong... I do believe it is. I just believe that any person should be able to understand why the omission occurred. Whether an "omission" is forgiven or not... that's up to the "wronged" spouse. Not anyone else.

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We must be very careful when we talk about lying by omission. There's a fine line between privacy and secrecy. For someone who can find time to CD and keep it private and be satisfied, it's hard to say if they're being private or secret. You have to be in their shoes to make that call.

Badtranny: You mean like congressman that try to pass laws bannig LGBT marriage that get caught soliciting for gay sex in an airport bathroom or from their underaged pages?

Leona... disagree all you want. This forum is for discussion and debate. People can disagree. I stand by my statement. You introduced a variable of a vindictive SO. That changes things. One of those exceptions to the rules, if you will.

Not starting a religious debate here.

As far as compromise goes. It's not the only ingredient in a successful relationship.... but an important one. You stated your opinion about compromise; explained it. Good luck to you with it, if you don't think it's necessary.

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Originally Posted by mary something

Maybe it would be easier if everyone just posted why they think they crossdress.

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This is a very interesting question. I still don't have the answers. Also, my reasons for crossdressing have changed over the years.

When I crossdressed as a teenager, there was a definite sexual aspect to it. I loved sexy lingerie that would be completely impractical for daywear by a real woman. And my crossdressing was often accompanied by... shall we say... other solitary pleasurable activities.

Now that I'm older, I find I prefer crossdressing in relatively understated women's clothing, and not just lingerie but outerwear too. I find when I'm crossdressed, I feel more relaxed, softer, and happier. I like to feel pretty and attractive. As a guy, I'm OK looking but nothing special. In girl mode, I'm probably not remotely passable, but I feel better-looking even if I'm not really.

I still don't know why crossdressing gives me these feelings. I've been crossdressing for 35+ years now and still don't know the answer. I've more-or-less given up on trying to understand it and I'm just enjoying it. It's like a strange, surprising little gift that I might as well appreciate.

I agree with Heather. We really do need a LIKE button on here!!

Tex Kimberley, Very good post! Extra Y chromosome? Intersting! I know that some GG's especially religious, would divorce over CDing. Some would stay and try to get the cder to religious counseling.

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Originally Posted by almostalady

Why do men crossdress? Well along the same line, why do some not?

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Come on, that's not a reasonable supposition. And it's not "some" it's "the vast majority" of males who do not cross dress.We are way on the unique side.

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Originally Posted by DanielleLee

Leona... disagree all you want. This forum is for discussion and debate. People can disagree. I stand by my statement. You introduced a variable of a vindictive SO. That changes things. One of those exceptions to the rules, if you will.

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We're not having a problem here, don't worry. :) If I came off as somewhat angry or whatever, it's because of my own baggage, has nothing to do with you. And as you said, discussion and debate, and also presenting other points of view so people reading have stuff to think about. (I, too, would prefer to avoid a religious debate here)

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

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Originally Posted by almostalady

Why do men crossdress? Well along the same line, why do some not?

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Come on, that's not a reasonable supposition. And it's not "some" it's "the vast majority" of males who do not cross dress.We are way on the unique side.

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The answer as to why "some" (=most) do not is obvious (whether it's true is another matter):

They are trained from birth to avoid and hate anything labeled "feminine."

Exhibit A: my big brother. I make up T-shirts for our family reunions, each year a different color. One year I chose pink. He really lost it -- you'd have thought putting on an article of pink clothing would magically turn him into a woman. (I can hear the M2F TS's saying, "I wish!) He ended up cutting his T-shirt up into little squares -- to clean his guns with.

I somehow doubt he'll ever cross-dress, even as a joke.

+ + +

Why I crossdress?

My short (and somewhat simplified answer) is: I like the clothes.

I've always felt the attraction. Now that I actually wear (or realistically imagine wearing) them, I notice that my tastes are rather eclectic. Not every "feminine" garment does it for me. I haven't found a common thread, although I tend to go for the "girlier" or more frou-frou styles rather than what passes for "sexy" nowadays. And there's stuff I love seeing women wear that I don't want to wear, and vice versa. I don't feel like I'm any different when I wear them, I just feel more like me, more at home in the clothes.

So explanations like "I want to feel like/look like a woman" don't make a lot of sense to me.

My own rationalization (which is as good as any of the balderdash coming out of the APA and the self-appointed "gender experts") is that it's an example of variation of human preferences. After all, some women like dresses and some hate them (and we see these preferences in very young girls, too.) And they like different styles. My guess is if men weren't brainwashed from birth on that girl stuff (esp. girl clothes) has icky girl cooties, you'd see a substantial minority of men wearing dresses and/or skirts and/or panty hose and heels, etc.

Add to that a family trait: we tend to be bad at responding to social pressure. It seems like most people are able to internalize and turn themselves into whoever they're supposed to be in a social group or situation, but I just can't do it, any more than a tone-deaf person can carry a tune. So I could never make myself become a dudebro like the rest, and dealing with my forbidden urges was always a struggle. Eventually, about 10 years ago, I just gave up.

That's my rationalization, anyway. And I'm stickin' to it.

I would certainly H O P E that no one who participates at this Forum, [or any other Forum] would claim to KNOW just what percentage of the male population CDs? Or would claim to have an even remotely reliable source as to same? And would you also CLAIM to know just what percent of the population is Gay? Something that SHOULD be much easier to quantify.

I would also certainly HOPE that people realize that only the tiniest percentage of people join Forums no matter how passionate they may be about something, be they motorcycle, Dating site, or I am guessing most any other Forum.

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Originally Posted by Asche

So explanations like "I want to feel like/look like a woman" don't make a lot of sense to me.

My own rationalization (which is as good as any of the balderdash coming out of the APA and the self-appointed "gender experts")

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Sorry, but it's not only the "APA" the "GLAAD" also has a say in this..

Cross-Dressing To occasionally wear clothes traditionally associated with people of the other sex. Cross-dressers are usually comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth and do not wish to change it. "Cross-dresser" should NOT be used to describe someone who has transitioned to live full-time as the other sex or who intends to do so in the future. Cross-dressing is a form of gender expression and is not necessarily tied to erotic activity. Cross-dressing is not indicative of sexual orientation.

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Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels

I would certainly H O P E that no one who participates at this Forum, [or any other Forum] would claim to KNOW just what percentage of the male population CDs? Or would claim to have an even remotely reliable source as to same? And would you also CLAIM to know just what percent of the population is Gay? Something that SHOULD be much easier to quantify.

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Why? There are some pretty solid mathematical models available. Some of them approach a 20% uncertainty with estimating the population of transgender people in our society (having a hard time adjusting to the clarification of the word "transgender"'s part of speech :) ). For the LG portion of the population, the models are much more accurate simply because it's becoming much more acceptable to be openly gay. Estimating what part of the population is gay now carries roughly the same level of uncertainty that estimating what part is atheist and/or non-religious.

I don't have figures handy, though. :)

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

Sorry, but it's not only the "APA" the "GLAAD" also has a say in this..

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As does the Disney corporation. And the Catholic Church. What's your point?

I assume that Lucy_Bella is quoting someone else (w/o attribution?) here:

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

Cross-Dressing To occasionally wear clothes traditionally associated with people of the other sex. Cross-dressers are usually comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth and do not wish to change it. "Cross-dresser" should NOT be used to describe someone who has transitioned to live full-time as the other sex or who intends to do so in the future. Cross-dressing is a form of gender expression and is not necessarily tied to erotic activity. Cross-dressing is not indicative of sexual orientation.

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Why not go all the way and discuss crossdressing in terms of the 4 humors?

We live in a society in which not only the gender binary but also the traits conventionally associated with the two genders are assumed to be as unchanging and intrinsic to reality as the Pauli exclusion principle. Since the "experts" are also members of this society, they are going to classify "gender-variant" behavior in ways that don't challenge the paradigm of binary gender and gender traits and force behavior that does challenge that paradigm into categories that don't. (And since they are mostly from the most privileged segments of society, their interest in maintaining their privilege also leads them to support the status quo.)

The only place one can hope for any alternative way of framing gender-binary-challenging behavior is with people who actually who actually live it, because they're the only ones who have among their interests one that _isn't_ in the direction of the status quo.

We saw this with gays and lesbians. Back when I was a child, the "experts" pretty uniformly agreed that homosexuality was a disorder and a perversion needing either cure or suppression. It was not the "experts", but the gays and lesbians themselves that challenged this, against enormous resistance from the "experts" and leaders.

It's been a similar story with sexism and racism -- the "experts" generally defined things in terms that justified the status quo, and it has always been left to the oppressed people themselves to come up with alternate framings of things.

For that matter, there are trans people who are challenging the idea that trans people are _necessarily_ people who are "transitioning to the other sex".

Asche: I find that both what Lucy_Bella said and what you said are both true. Hers is factually correct, in that crossdressing doesn't say anything about sexual orientation.

Yet, I find your statements on the subject quite compelling. Does "transgender" exist as a label purely to protect the cisgender population from insecurity? By putting us all in a box (even if it's a big, nebulous box, it's a box nonetheless), does that truly protect the cisgender population from the threat that their secure gender roles aren't so secure after all?

For that matter, I remember my first thanksgiving dinner with my ex-wife. I cooked the whole meal from start to finish. She contributed a dish that was basically a packaged dish. After eating it, we went to her dad's house, and her step-mom quizzed her on how everything was cooked. She was taken aback quite a bit when I told her I cooked it. It was really strange, but she was at least a little offended by the idea that the MAN cooked a traditional dinner. I guess part of cooking a traditional dinner is the tradition that the woman cooks it.

So it's not just crossdressers and other transgender people challenging the social order.