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Other than the stated reason of woman being free to wear men's clothing without being questioned, dressing in women's clothing is awesome, you ladies have the pretties things and everybody knows women are just beautiful, can't say the same about guys.
Tinkerbell,
What a thought provoking question.
I never worry about thinking anything!!!!!
But to answer your question....
For me it may be the fascination of girls and liking them so much that I want to be like them.
I always have liked their company and do interact with them well.
Even today,now that I am married.
I really don't know as I don't think about it. :)
I consider girls to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Hi Tinkerbell,
I sent you a PM along these lines but I don't know if all my messages are being received , but I'm with Confucius on this one.
As it has been so well stated above, women can wear men's clothing and have no repurcussions from that - in fact, no one even knows they may be 'crossdressing'. They look like any other woman who wears mens clothing, which is fully acceptable in our society. About the only mens clothing item I can think of that a woman could wear that would be considered crossdressing would be a jock strap. And then it would be considered cute, not disqusting. How many traditional womens clothing items, or makeup, or hair styles can men use without being noticed, and without generating usually adverse emotions of others?
Confucious nailed the correct answers; notably responses # 1 & 2. I am glad to hear that you are becoming more at ease with your cd spouse. Maybe you could post a journal about your gg evolution to cd acceptance ? Peace , mel
I would agree with what many others have said, in that as a female you can do traditionally male things and nobody thinks twice about it. Why? As a gender more have you have stood up for yourselves and demanded the right to be able to do what you want with your bodies.
In society (in general) it is more accepted for a woman to:
- paint your nails or not
- have long hair or not
- shave your body, or not (not always socially accepted but increasingly so)
- wear pants or skirts or dresses or shorts or leggings
- wear jewelry or not
- wear bright colors or not
- wear a variety of fabrics or not
- etc
Men are fairly limited in what we are socially "allowed" to wear. If females want to be a girly girl, then that is okay, if you want to be a "tom boy" that is okay also. Men are supposed to be men and that is our only socially acceptable avenue. If we veer outside of it, then we are weird. It takes quite a bit to dress in a weird way for a woman. You have earned your dressing freedom through hard work and effort. Men won't stand up for their own rights. (In complete and total general terms, meaning nothing I wrote should be interpreted as always applying to everyone!)
I guess nobody on this thread follows the tumblrs ungendered and genderfork. If you did you'd find the majority of the posters are ftm cross dressers, and beautiful they are. There are many young women who would rather present as male, some of whom go as far as top surgery but most just wear binders. In my little town I just never see male cross dressers but I see plenty of young women who present very male and might as well be cross dressing. I do sometimes wonder whether anybody on this board is paying any attention to what people under 30 are doing. They are not acting or talking about gender the way you all are.
Forgive my confusion here...but I get confused every time I see people whine about about how it's OK for women to wear men's clothes and "society" is ok with it.
I have yet to see a woman out in the RW wearing something obviously made for a man, AND with her breasts bound and packing "junk" up front. [Do they sell fake "junk"alongside forms maybe?] And what kind of "makeup" would she wear to make people think she is a man? Of course she would also need to walk and talk like a man??????????????????????
Maybe "those" women ARE plentiful and a dime a dozen all over the world but we just don't have them in Florida.
That's GOTTA be it.
Maybe we even have some law against a woman trying her best to.....
I think Nadine made some great observations. Its actually harder for women to simply CD. they still can and some do, but I do think that the ones who do are typically to the point of being TS rather than being somewhere mid scale on the TG spectrum. Also T- you made some good points about how and why there were times where you wished you were a boy, maybe not because you felt like one inside, but liked the advantages that come with being male. There definitely are some and one of the reasons why I do not wish to transition. I like those advantages as well. But women have them too, and I think the freedom to be more expressive in both clothing as well as personality is women's advantage gender wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by devida
Does anybody else see the humorous irony in these posts being one right after the other?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels
I guess we all just see what we want to see?
Tinkerbell,
Excellent question. My theory is they are out there in nearly equal numbers. But they currently have the advantage of being able to wear clothes in public to satisfy their gender identity's needs, even if they may not understand why. They may not have needed to work as hard to suppress this need to display some or a lot masculinity. Think about all the Tomboys you might know or know of.
Now I'm a person, with a male body, who wears a mixture of men's and women's clothes to satisfy my gender identity. I do tend to stand out in public and I'm known by society as a CD, cross-dresser.
But what if I had a female body and had GIN, gender identity needs? I would wear female and male clothes to satisfy my gender identity. I might be know as a Tomboy by society, and more than likely blend to a great extent.
The facts are we do not know the why some males and females get GID. I don't know if Tomboys have the same characteristics as a CD, that they must wear some male clothing for their GIN or have gender dysphoria. We do know this gender identity issue happens in males & females and it does happen to great and lesser degrees. And there are examples of this through out history in both males and females.
So I personally don't think this is just a male thing because of the usage of the words cross-dresser. :)
One answer to your question is that a girl could be a "tom-boy" whenever she wanted to be. Then she could switch back to being a girl whenever she wanted to be that. It is/was nearly impossible for a boy to sometimes be like a girl and sometimes be like a boy. Society frowns at this; sometimes withe dire consequences.
Also, there is nothing particularily interesting about male clothes. While women's clothes are quite fascinating as well as being pretty and feeling good to the touch! So, there is not much incentive for a female to crossdress.
Like most have already stated, women are allowed a much greater range of clothing options then men. I know for me as a CDer, I like allowing myself the same options that women have without having the society bat an eye. I like the feel of some of the different fabrics. I was surprised by Sandra comment that there appear to be large numbers of FTM in Winnipeg.
Tinkerbell-
As far as your mad scientist comment about making YY men. well it won't work because geneticly speaking the Y chromosome only carries gene to express male characteristics, whereas the X chromosome is larger and carries genes for more than just female characteristics. Plus All human babies start life as female and only develop male characteristics later on in development if the Y chromosome is present.
Just my Biologist training showing
Because we can! :) Well, actually it is because wearing anything borderline feminine is not allowed for males so those of us who do cross the border tend to go whole hog. If I were to simply wear a dress as a guy I would be ridiculed or worse so I do my best to blend or pass as female. That means I add bra, forms, shapewear, makeup, and wig or I do nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG
Females can live at the boundaries without ostracism so most of them can satisfy their desires and curiosities without declaring that they are crossdressers. Any woman can cut her hair short, wear men's jeans and shirts, etc. and it isn't likely that she would be ostracized for it. Only the few that are on the far TS end of the spectrum feel any need to define themselves as TG.
Ah, but these days females aren't restricted to dresses, they can climb trees, and there are products now readily available that allow you to frolic in the sea at any time. There is no need to crossdress to have those freedoms. When women were more restricted there was some social resistance to women who did masculine things. They were called "tomboys". I don't hear that term used much these days because women are allowed and encouraged to do all manner of masculine things.Quote:
I mean, I vividly recall moments in my life when I thought being a boy would be SO much better. I didn't want to wear the restrictive dresses...while the boys climbed trees. I wanted to climb one as well! Then, enter the monthly...I swear that day I looked at my carefree male cousins frolicking in the sea....I wanted to be a boy...
Males have their own hormone problems. Ours may not be cyclic, but being continuously pumped with something that encourages sexual arousal and aggression and having to control these to in order to live in society engenders its own problems. And carefree? Hardly! Our societal imperative is to be in control of all situations, to be the protectors, to be the person who steps in to put things right, etc. This is a continuous and stressful responsibility.Quote:
...And I will always wonder what it's like to live the more carefree, hormone-free life of a male....
Another way to think of it is to consider that a "grass is greener" situation is in play, but those who may easily sample the other side of the fence often find that their own side was more palatable. Those of us who put a lot effort into sampling the other side are more prone to embrace what we find there.
and Tink, why are the overwhelming majority of sex changes male to female? Has to be a hormone cocktail where testosterone is the major player. We will never know, I think.
I've quickly read through all of the replies to the original question and there is one thought that I don't remember seeing anywhere else.
For a long time, society has looked at males as being the stronger, "protector" and provider person. So, for a guy to don women's clothing, it's almost like it's a step backwards socially whereas if a woman dresses in some guy garb, she is "moving up" in the world. So a woman who pulls on some coveralls and pitches in is just trying to be one of the guys... kind of a step up. Besides, "tom boy" isn't quite as derogatory a term as sissy.
Another thought: There have been lots of questions here about whether or not guys would wear women's clothing made for men. And, generally, the response has been no, that if it is made for men, it's not really women's clothing. Yet, women have "generally" accepted certain male garments cut especially for them. I mean, you see jeans, pants suits, trench coats and other male vestiges made for women and those have been accepted by women. But generally, men haven't yet accepted women's clothing styled for them. So a woman dressed in some men's clothing isn't as socially "shocking" as a man dressed in women's clothing.
this has been a good discussion; I hope it continues...
Lacy PJs
Why don't more women crossdress?? (Or put another way, why DO more men crossdress than women?)
By asking the question you already assume that this is true. I would have to say in my experience that it is not true. In an average day I see many more females dressed "manly" with crew cuts and no sign of traditional femine cues then males dressed either androgynous or feminine. Now granted, many of those women may just be choosing practical styles. I would suggest though that there is a sizable number of these women who dress in a male way on purpose. There is no way,just looking at them, to tell which reason for their choice.
As far as "real" FTM crossdresser...I know of one in the Boston area that I have met several times. He generally wears very ornate male outfits. Top hat and tails, cowboy, Victorian suit, etc. So, yes, there are definitely female crossdressers comparable to us here.
If you spend time around college towns I think you'd be surprised at the number of FTM transsexuals. Once they fully transition they are indistinguishable from genetic men. Because of that I suspect that the estimates of FTM is grossly underestimated.
Actually, I have no idea why more men crossdress (or even if it's really true.) But the XY thing isn't the answer. Becoming male depends on a single gene which normally occurs on the Y chromosome. However, some Y chromosomes don't have this gene, giving us XY women. Sometimes the gene occurs on the X chromosome, giving us XX men. Lots if other variations are possible.
Wow, lots of great answers! Confucious and Teresa, your explanation makes total sense for the sexual CDers and I never knew that having a fetish or even being gay has benefits in evolution. Makes sense. It takes many types to make the world go around. I'm inclined to think testosterone must have some part in all this, too. That's pretty much the difference between us, is it not?
And I think also the fact that men haven't had much freedom in fashion for the longest while has definitely got something to do with at least some of this. Who decided women can wear what they like and not men?? Seems silly and I'm all for more fashion freedom for everyone.
Still, I suspect this wouldn't change the ratio much. I think this is one of those mysteries that will never be solved. You can all relax as the forum is still needed! :)
I have some local FTM or genderqueer acquaintances. A group of them were excited a few months ago to find a source for packers. I came close to piping up with some of the information I learned from the FTM section here. My acquaintances also get frustrated at how difficult it is to find a good binder. So yes, they definitely exist here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels
The discussions here about how women have more clothing choices is culture-centric, and skips over the fact that some of our members are in cultures where a GG wearing male clothes could get into serious cultural or legal trouble. The city I live in has in the surrounding areas a number of Hutterite colonies, some Amish settlements, and a fair number of orthodox Mennonites. The Hutterites and orthodox Mennonites are not uncommon in our markets and shopping malls; you can tell the difference between them mostly by the colors permitted in their dresses (always dresses, never skirts or pants.) A would-be FTM crossdresser from one of those or related religions could find themselves shunned and required to leave town if they were ever discovered.
You never hear of a woman wearing men's clothing referred to as a transvestite which has the same meaning as crossdresser. When I see a woman emulating a man in clothing choice I just assume she's a lesbian, not a crossdresser. But there are female CDs from what I've read in some old psychology book. But most CDs are men.
Katey888
I agree with you and the biological tie and also your Tomboy comment. What is the societal name for a male who acts more female (the opposite of a tomboy)? It isn't a complimentary one in my neck of the woods, how about yours?
I know many GG's who are mature tomboys. The reason you don't think about them that way is because they are viewed as normal or ambitious... Most adult females who are drawn to typical masculine professions are most often strongly supported by their peers.
Males on the other hand most often are ridiculed. Maybe now, nursing is an exception but let's try: makeup artist, hairdresser, dental assistant or Hygenist, fashion design receptionist... Be honest what is thought about them? Dare I say, gay? maybe.
Nothing shocking here but i wanted to say it.
Lots of us do stand up for our rights, but the problem is, we don't have the right to insist on how others feel about us, to insist that women get turned on by feminine men, be impressed by feminine men, or admire feminine men. There are no such 'rights'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit
If you count top surgery I think you'll find the numbers are not as skewed toward MTF as usually believed. Bottom surgery for FTM is still being perfected and many don't feel the need for it. I do think that there are more transwomen then transmen but I would guess it's more 2 to 1. In reality they are so much more invisible then us that I'm not sure we'll ever have good numbers to compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
To reinforce what Sally said there are strong arguments that the statistics regarding mtf vs ftm transgender populations are missing very large numbers of each. One reason is that if you just go by gender reassignment surgery in which there is a 3 times larger number of mtf than ftm you miss a couple of important issues. First there is no comparably successful bottom surgery for ftm as there is for mtf. Secondly, as you might have noticed it is not unusual for women to have small breasts or hardly any at all but men, in general, who want to have female breasts have to opt for forms or surgery and so there tend to be more transgender mtf recorded having top surgery than ftm. Then there are a number of socio-economic reasons that women may opt for gender surgery at lower rates than men. If you try to find good stats outside of surgery, good luck. Most of it is decades old.
I agree that there are probably more mtf than ftm trans people but maybe not that many more and that gap is certainly narrowing in the few stats we do have. Add to that societal disapproval of men acting like women but grudging approval of women acting like men and the real transgender populations are undoubtedly vastly under reported because the ftms don't need to proclaim themselves and the mtfs don't dare.
Ask a western man in the early 20th century about women acting like men and men acting like women and he'll barely know any men who act like women but be totally outraged by the numbers of uppity women denying their feminine nature and acting like men. I would argue that the proportions of gender variance have always been pretty much equal but that societal attention changes. But I could be blowing as much smoke as the rest of you because I, just like you, don't have any good data because it just isn't there.