You can..

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Originally Posted by ReineD

... only because the OP was stated in a way that suggests everyone who participates here thinks of themselves as female and has a desire to be out.

Sorry Ro, but it might have been better for you to preface your sentence with "For those of you to whom this applies, ..." .

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You are right ! But,to see some of the posts from all of those that don't want to be out but tell like their "girl time" is very important to them,confuses me. Many take huge risks in that they could get caught or they want to get caught..I think being more honest about what is on their mind might have brought different results than some imagine. The cost for hiding and lying and overcompensating is that you can never live it down later if things change.And if you create an unaccepting family from your overcompensation,then you lay in that bed forever. And to clear something up for some..People usually don't view,nor label a full time person as a "crossdresser". You are seen as someone living in their desired gender.

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

But,to see some of the posts from all of those that don't want to be out but tell like their "girl time" is very important to them,confuses me.

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Similarly, people who consciously distance themselves from the community after transition confuse me.

DeeAnn

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

You are right ! But,to see some of the posts from all of those that don't want to be out but tell like their "girl time" is very important to them,confuses me. Many take huge risks in that they could get caught or they want to get caught..I think being more honest about what is on their mind might have brought different results than some imagine.

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Yes, going out as a woman is enticing indeed for a lot of people here and it can be downright compelling. But at the end of it all, if it comes down to a choice between declaring oneself as a woman or preserving the male life, the bulk of the people who login here will choose the preservation of their male lives.

It's like me, really. I have a strong fantasy to buy a house near the Pyrénées (where my ancestors come from) - 200 year old building with thick stone walls and high rough-hewn beamed ceilings, slate floors, large airy bedrooms each with fully remodelled en-suites, fabulous cook's kitchen with a huge stone fireplace in it, on acreage with a pool and a French garden - to use as profitable B&B except a few times per year when I would fly my kids out to ski in the winter or drive to the French Mediterranean in the summer. It's my ideal life!!! Will I ever do it? No. It's beyond the realities of my life. :p

People invariably end up doing what they feel they can and they're fundamentally happy with that. The rest is fun to dream about ... unless a person is TS of course, in which case they have no choice but to transition.

Reine,
Sorry to sidetrack for a moment but you've rekindled my skiing urges, Andorra is my chosen resort, outside chance I might see you there !

I feel I go with Rogina's thoughts on this one, we all know it's a fine balancing act I guess it's how strong whatever the pull is to CD. Being open about it has to happen at some point if you're to continue to function, it's not blackmail, it's just being honest with yourself and realistic with other people. Rogina says, " you can " maybe sometimes we should say, " We must !" simply for our own sanity !

The epitaph on my headstone could easily have read , " All he wanted to do was wear a dress !" We should have listened !

As a doc, I learned a long time ago that one should never jump into the water, even if their friends dare them, unless or until they know what lies under the surface. While everything might look calm and pretty on the surface, its the rocks and other obstacles under the water that can cause havoc on the body. Similarly, what lies under the surface of each of us is different. Therefore to believe that if something goes well for one it will go well for all is very naive. Granted, to hide secrets from those you love and care about can be tremendously harmful on all parties. I held my secrets for years and it was tearing me apart. However, when I first tried to let the kitten out of the bag 20 years ago it nearly ruined us. 6 years ago, on a very tearful night, I told all. And yes, to support you Rogina to some degree, my wife and I are closer than we have ever been before and have shared things we would have never shared before. And its more than simple tolerance. I don't hide my things from her, we buy together and we share. But I know my wife doesn't want another full time woman in her life. Honesty goes both ways. And I am not prepared nor willing to give her (my wife) up for anything in the world. There are other factors in my life that I am not willing to sacrifice just to wake up and live every day as a woman (ie, job, children, grandchildren, friends). So what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander. Everyone is different. What worked well for you I'm happy for. But I hope we can all be happy for each other regardless of how we proceed in life and how we wish to live and respect that we are all different, we all have opinions, we all must lead our lives according to the cards that are dealt to us. And we have to accept that.
Dr. J.

It solely depends where you live. Of course, you can don that dress, heels and hosiery and walk the streets. Legal protection for transgenders does not exist in all the realm. Yes, there is more acceptance concerning those you are transitioning for medical reasons, however, that does not extend to cross dressers. Read the newspaper. There are on going battles going on around the country concerning rights of transgender persons. In Washington State the law protects gender expression as well as gays, lesbians and transgender persons in public accommodations and employment, etc.

Can and should are two different things. Yes, you can walk into a lions den, but should you?
I don't want diminish from your point though. You're absolutely right. The only thing stopping you is you. All you have to do is make a choice and act on it. But I want to advise caution too.
Really, its a matter of weighing what you want. You can't be out without accepting the risks that come with it. To some, those risks are worth being out. To others, the cost and risk aren't worth it. Either way you have to make that choice and live with the consequences.

"But I know my wife doesn't want another full time woman in her life. Honesty goes both ways. And I am not prepared nor willing to give her (my wife) up for anything in the world. There are other factors in my life that I am not willing to sacrifice just to wake up and live every day as a woman."

i feel precisely the same, Dr. J! Thank You for putting it so articulately.

rachel

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Originally Posted by rachel de Corvus

Thank You for putting it so articulately.

rachel[/COLOR][/I]

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X3.

"It's not all about me" is what I try to live by on this issue. My wife knows about who I am but is only slightly tolerant so mostly it's DADT, and try to steal a day or two here and there to dress up. I love her with all my heart, made a commitment to her a long time ago, and plan to respect it. I do not under any circumstances to be the cause of her leaving.

One tries to make do and do the best one can in the circumstances. Life, all life, is a balance and this is especially true of relationships. There are some foods my wife likes and me not so much, and vice-versa. We try to accommodate each other.

I recognize that as a CDer, my "obsession" tends to be very inward-looking and self-absorbed and that has its own dangers.

Please realize that you can become all of the woman that you ever wanted to be..and then some. There are no legal glitches to coming out,living your life 24/7 as your authentic self. There are no social glitches that are any more insurmountable than what a transitioner faces. Own it and live it.. Life is way too short to do otherwise ..

Surely it can be done. It's just that it takes so much effort and willpower to be "your authentic self." Still, as for the social glitches, these could be a hindrance. I could not walk into my office en femme and still keep my job. I can get around en femme freely on my own time, however. It was hard coming to terms being a CD, but was worth every bit of the effort.
"You can." is valid but the extent is determined within the context of one's family and social situation. You can find a comfortable niche in which to function as a CD.

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

Please realize that you can become all of the woman that you ever wanted to be..and then some..........

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Not really. You will never bear a child or nurse him/her. You will never have a truly female body, even with thousands of dollars worth of surgery and months or years of recovery. You will never have the lifetime of being female and all the learning and experiences that growing up as a female brings.

Several posters have already mentioned the social costs of transition; loss of family, loss of career and loss of friends. You also lose the history of your life. "Rogina B" never went to school or college, never was in any clubs or activities, in fact, was never even born, she just appeared one day.

The other thing that I didn't see mentioned is even though you can become a woman, should you become a woman?

Suppose you are 6' 4" tall and weigh 280 lb and are built like Hulk Hogan? You can get breast implants and a vagina but you will look like a professional wrestler with boobs and a vagina. Society is not going to view you as a woman, you'll probably have to join the circus.

There's a pretty common saying - "Life is unfair and then you die." It's not that simple but that saying sums it up.

I don't want to be a woman. I am a cross dresser - but I'd like to be a better one. Besides, my wonderful wife would not care for me to be a woman. Thank goodness!

I knew where this thread was headed from the start.LOL

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Not really. You will never bear a child or nurse him/her. You will never have a truly female body, even with thousands of dollars worth of surgery and months or years of recovery. You will never have the lifetime of being female and all the learning and experiences that growing up as a female brings.

Several posters have already mentioned the social costs of transition; loss of family, loss of career and loss of friends. You also lose the history of your life. "Rogina B" never went to school or college, never was in any clubs or activities, in fact, was never even born, she just appeared one day.

The other thing that I didn't see mentioned is even though you can become a woman, should you become a woman?

Suppose you are 6' 4" tall and weigh 280 lb and are built like Hulk Hogan? You can get breast implants and a vagina but you will look like a professional wrestler with boobs and a vagina. Society is not going to view you as a woman, you'll probably have to join the circus.

There's a pretty common saying - "Life is unfair and then you die." It's not that simple but that saying sums it up.

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can we just think about this for a moment, i know were in the MtF section of discussion but can we really be this insensitive, i may be a few Lbs short of 280 and some here are 6' 4" and transitioned, maybe even served theyre country and all to come here an be told to join the circus, as what a freak, the bearded lady, yea lets go back to the early Ringling days and ways, this is expected from the folks in the wild, according to some of them we are all circus freaks so one would be best to think and read what they are posting.......

guess i just ranted......sorry to be off topic rogina, but that was some vile and toxic negativity

First Krisi's post, then we have:

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Originally Posted by mikell

guess i just ranted......sorry to be off topic rogina, but that was some vile and toxic negativity

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On the contrary, it's reality for lots of us. I don't live full time in the pink fog. I visit once in a while. But living day to day isn't about ignoring the realities that we must face. Whether or not one should become a woman, is mostly in the mind of the individual. I've read of many who simply cannot stand the feeling of being male one more minute and really would rather be a 280 pound Hogan body type with boobs and a vagina or they will kill themselves, so for those, transitioning is the only answer. We saw how Caitlyn eventually made out, and she was once the absolute image of what a male body is considered to be. LIfe is about possibilities. But as Dirty Harry once said, a man's got to know his limitations.

and then we have sometimes miss, are you kidding me you quote me out of context, my rant was about the vile and insensitive comment krisi made, according to krisi's comment we might as well just delete the whole transsexual section cause they are just a bunch of circus acts, my apology was to rogina for the fact i could not just read those comments and not rant !!!!

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

Please realize that you can become all of the woman that you ever wanted to be..and then some. There are no legal glitches to coming out,living your life 24/7 as your authentic self. There are no social glitches that are any more insurmountable than what a transitioner faces. Own it and live it.. Life is way too short to do otherwise ..

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If that's where you feel you're at and it's what you want to do then great ... I wish you peace and happiness .. but for most CDers I think life is a bit more complex. My wife, close family and close friends know that I like to dress feminine at times and they ( being the kind, easy-going humans that I am lucky enough to be around )accept it, but if were to suddenly start dressing 24/7 as a woman and presenting as such in public then it would be embarrassing for family and friends and cause real distress to my wife. I wouldn't want to anyway, I'm more of the bi-gendered/ gender fluid type and male attire is a much more practical option for outdoor/ working life in my opinion ( and that of many females too!)

Each to their own, and good luck :)

Mikell, Reality is cruel sometimes but it's still reality. When I was a child I wanted to be a professional baseball player. The reality was, I was too small and two slow. I had to accept reality and focus on things that I could do and not things I couldn't do.

Reality sucks sometimes, but it's still reality. The original post implied that any of us could become a woman if we really wanted to. Reality tells us that many of us are just not candidates for becoming women or living as women for the reasons I stated. So you are angry with me for stating the obvious?

This forum is a fantasy world for some people and that's fine as long as you understand this. Eventually, you're going to have to step away from the computer and reality is going to step in.

reality may be cruel but it doesnt give you the right to spew it in the intolerant way you do here, some folks here had a real desire to become theyre true selves when they were children, they did not have a choice, it was medical....they spent thousands of dollars to become theyre true selves, some could not afford it and live in between, some are bi, some are gay, some identify as lesbian, so by the comments you use here lately i do question why you are here, so much hate.....you say " join the circus", "less deviant than being gay", so much intolerance from someone who is part of the LGBT community.....you know folks in the wild consider regular crossdressers deviant........ so it may be your reality but it is not the reality of all members.....show some compassion for folks who are different, theirs enough hate and judgment in the world without having toxic comments from a member about a member here......re-read your quotes and tell me they were necessary and belong here because its reality.....

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Not really. You will never bear a child or nurse him/her. You will never have a truly female body, even with thousands of dollars worth of surgery and months or years of recovery. You will never have the lifetime of being female and all the learning and experiences that growing up as a female brings.

Several posters have already mentioned the social costs of transition; loss of family, loss of career and loss of friends. You also lose the history of your life. "Rogina B" never went to school or college, never was in any clubs or activities, in fact, was never even born, she just appeared one day.

The other thing that I didn't see mentioned is even though you can become a woman, should you become a woman?

Suppose you are 6' 4" tall and weigh 280 lb and are built like Hulk Hogan? You can get breast implants and a vagina but you will look like a professional wrestler with boobs and a vagina. Society is not going to view you as a woman, you'll probably have to join the circus.

There's a pretty common saying - "Life is unfair and then you die." It's not that simple but that saying sums it up.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

It almost seems like you are saying that being bisexual is somehow less deviant than being gay. Like you are trying to defend it.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Suppose you are 6' 4" tall and weigh 280 lb and are built like Hulk Hogan?

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You do understand that that are genetic women that match that pretty closely?

DeeAnn

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

Please realize that you can become all of the woman that you ever wanted to be..and then some.

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I might like of kind of like that answer, and that level of bile. It has a place and a purpose. <3

Holy biscuits, I thought *I* was angry.

I'm just shy of the 6'4" thing, but I appreciate your (angry) position.

PiL: Anger is an energy!!

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Originally Posted by ReineD

...

Sorry Ro, but it might have been better for you to preface your sentence with "For those of you to whom this applies, ..." :)

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Yes,You are right. However, my opinion about living life as you wish,still stands. There are posts on here all the time about unexpected acceptance as people venture into the mainstream world. People who construct a deceptive life get a payback when they wish their friends were accepting of their gender issues when they slip up or accidentally reveal,or OUT themselves as TG...down the line. Even some of the adamant "male crossdressers" on here[Jennifernot at home anymore}] comes to mind as her new post talks about "it all feeling natural"... So,I will say,that you can socially transition and keep this good feeling going all the time...If you care enough about it..

Totally agree, Ro. My SO and I are treated respectfully by all SAs, restaurant personnel, etc, that we encounter while out dressed.

But the trouble is, at least in the US, we cannot say that acceptance is even across the board. I've been watching videos of presidential rallies and notice there are LOTS of people out there who have extremely narrow definitions of how to live and what to believe in. These very same people feel threatened to the point of rage when others disagree with them. I won't mention which presidential candidate elicits such hatred and intolerance among his followers, but it is evident there are indeed a lot of intolerant people who are tired of being "politically correct". This indicates to me there are an awful lot of people who have remained in the background and silent on many issues, all while privately scorning large segments of our society whose values they don't agree with. You should see all the hatred and bigotry I see on facebook.

Some of us are fortunate to live in pockets of society that aren't quite so single-minded. My SO and I do. We do live in a college town that is fairly liberal and culturally diverse. When we go out, people either don't notice that my SO is not a birth female, or if they do they keep their opinions to themselves. Still there are many places that my SO and I wouldn't go to while dressed. We follow our gut feelings and we play it safe.

But if someone lives in the deep South or other conservative geographic/socio-economic parts of the country, although they may be able to go out in public and not elicit outright venom from people, their family members, friends, and coworkers may still not be able to forgive the CDing should they find out and this can result in people wanting to distance themselves, even if no one comes after a CDer with pitchforks. No one enjoys being ostracized. While it's true that a person who transitions has no choice, there are lots of members in this forum who have no intention of living as women full time and I understand and respect their desire to keep the CDing private.

I guess forum members could surround themselves with members of the LGBTQ community and distance themselves from lukewarm muggles, but not everyone wants their social lives limited to the LGBTQ sector.

Although I think it's a good idea to encourage people to go out, I question the notion that the bulk of people will accept CDers, especially if you keep in mind that a lack of negative comments and distancing is not acceptance ... not like, "Oh cool! Sure I'd love to do stuff with you when you are dressed, why don't you come over next week and meet the wife and kids". We do have a handful of people who have those experiences, but to put it in perspective, what percentage of the whole do they represent.

The best balance my SO and I have found is to go out dressed in the next town over. We are indeed out in public (the safe part of the public and we do check out places in guy mode before going anywhere new dressed) and we don't supply the people at our home base with potential for gossip. It works for us. As mentioned, likely our acquaintances would be polite if they found out, but I cannot see them wanting us to come to their homes dressed and wanting to do things with us in public while my SO is dressed. The CDing still is something that most people view with suspicion as being odd, simply because there aren't enough members of society who do crossdress, even if everyone were to come out tomorrow. So what would be the point of opening up that can of worms if my SO is perfectly happy in male mode the bulk of the time.

Transvisibility..It doesn't matter where you fall on the TG spectrum as most of us never pass "closer scrutiny",anyway. Most people will take you as they see you even knowing that you were not born a genetic female. A thick skin is a requirement for all TG people that operate in the mainstream world. My original post was only to point out that if "you want or need it bad enough" living an out life is quite possible if you have the forethought to surround yourself with people that get it..And you tend to do that when living life on your own terms becomes important enough.