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Today I passed out over 600 pieces of candy, mostly to women. As samples in a grocery store. So I've seen many women. So quite knocking yourself out, and enjoy being a gurl. As I've said, if you got bumps on your chest and not too much of a mustache, you can probably pass for a women, if you can live the life....BJ
Hi DD,Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
I guess a lot of guys might naturally think that if they do something different and "non regular" (like wear women's clothes) then they must being doing something feminine (?). I guess that's a fair comment on the surface.
But being or feeling feminine is so much more than that. I think being feminine is more to do with not being what is perceived to be masculine. Being feminine can mean different things in different cultures of the world too. In the US or UK or the western world as whole, it means having and displaying those characteristics that are traditionally perceived to be non manly and therefore .... determined as feminine.
To me, being feminine is naturally showing: Kindness, sympathy, gentleness, patience, empathy, nurturing, motherly, being able to openly express one's emotions, being caring, being a good listener etc, etc.
However, femininity (to me) is also about strength, passion, determination, tenacity, and the ability to handle pain! I imagine most women need all of these to be able to go through pregnancy and child birth.
I also think that for CDers like me, "feeling feminine" is very important.
It might be asked, because I know that these clothes are made for women, and I feel different when I wear them, does this mean the clothes must be "making me feminine?" No. They don't make me feminine, but they do make me feel pretty, and feeling pretty makes me feel less manly. Feeling less manly (for me anyway) makes me feel happier. Expressing my femininity makes me feel relaxed, happy, and fulfilled.
So what I'm saying is by wearing the clothes, it puts me in a different mind-set. A mind-set that influences certain personality traits in me and (in my mind at least) makes me feel better about myself whilst nurturing behavior that I think suits me and also makes me a better person.
This is one of those questions that is pretty hard to answer, as its hard to explain emotional response in words. I agree with the postings on sensuality, but i think it is far and away past anything tactile. A feminine trait is in doing things simply because you want to; its pretty, feels nice, makes you happy, sounds nice, smells good, etc. The "masculine" mold seems to be in logic and practicality, and being concerned more with gain or usefulness than simply enjoyment of the moment.
It is beyond physical. Feminine expression, through art, music, conversation, or interaction with other people is driven often by what feels good, not by what is prudent. Whether it feels good for themselves, or others, or for no one in particular, simply because you want to.
Basically, the freedom to do something because you want to do it, because its something that pleases you, or is new, or looks fun, or is soothing. Im not saying that some men dont find this level of personal contentment, but most men (not the ones on this forum) would not wear a corset, simply because they like how it felt or looked, and it isnt "practical" to buy something that has no real purpose, other than how it feels or looks?
Being feminine also means a level of self confidence that dosent need any sort of concrete, tangible "things" to keep it intact. Reading a book, looking at a tree, wearing a new pair of shoes, is its own reward, it dosent require someone else to quantify its value with compliments or praise...or money. (though, no one, man or woman, minds acknowledgement of their choices. Men just seem a bit more hung up on it)
Maybe being feminine means being more primal than men, overall, if that makes sense?
Terri
DD, you're making my head hurt! What is femininity to me? Discovering a new mascara that makes my pitiful lashes "pop." Feeling satisfied finding that perfect pair of shoes. Applying makeup to my own face. Walking with grace and poise. Comforting a hurting soul. Sharing the excitement of losing one pound of weight. Having a door held open for me. Okay, admittedly, these are all outward manifestations of something going on within. Femininity is a stirring from within. It's a freedom from being reserved and metered in your responses.
Many years ago I went to a transformation service and had a makeover done. This was certainly not the first time I had done this. There was the sensuality of the silk blouse I was wearing, the companionship of the artist doing the transformation, the aroma of the cosmetics, maybe the stars were all in proper alignment, I don't really know. But when I was turned around, and I looked into the mirror, I SAW the girl for the very first time! It wans't the face (although it was pretty:battingeyelashes:), it wasn't the clothes (although they felt wonderful). It was the EYES... I actually SAW her in my eyes! It was a spiritual awakening of something that had been going on for so long, that I was struggling to find with cloth and cosmetics. In that one moment, my life changed forever. The macho, male, construction worker attitude melted away. I became vulnerable and as such acquired the ability to feel for the first time in my life.
I give credit to two people for modeling femininity to me. First and foremost, my wonderful wife. Living with her for over 39 years has given me ample opportunity to see femininity in action... her response to me as a man, the tenderness and nurturing to our children, the strength of character as a business woman, a wife, a mother, a friend. She is an incredible partner and I am so fortunate to have gotten it right the first time.
The second person is Amy, the makeup artist I mentioned above. She is my "girl mom." I think she glimpsed my, "girl inside" before I ever saw her. She put her skill to work so that I could see her as well. Her acceptance and encouragement forever changed me in a most positive and wonderful way.
DD, I don't know if I answered your original question or not. Undeniably there are the physical trappings of femininity. And I willing and joyfully profess my love for them all. But more importantly, there is the emotional and spiritual aspect of femininity. If for the rest of my life, I never wear another pair of panties or slip my feet into another pair of heels, I will forever enjoy experiencing femininity to its fullest.
No, you got it completely! :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
Or sometimes women you find interesting. Dolly Parton has said ( paraphrasing ) "My role model growing up was this local woman who I later discovered was the local *****- I didn't know that, I just thought her look was pretty."Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
Mimicking a look isn't exactly what I meant. We grow up learning about how to be "ladies" so-to-speak from the women around us as children. Teachers, mothers, sisters, cousins, etc. Our images of "femininity" are varied and, often inadvertently, cultivated by our peers. So a GG's understanding of femininity and how we learned it, varies from a CDers unless their peer group was as primarily female as ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab Karen
In my case, though I grew up in a predominantly male household, those women who influenced me as a child were profoundly feminine and strong. To me, femininity is the ability to be strong and still relatively "lady like" (i.e. not having to resort to lesser means for like effects). So I realize that I am quite masculine and yet feminine at the same time.
When I read on here about how clothing makes you feel feminine, I think "wow... clothing makes you feminine?" Of course it doesn't. Its the idea presented behind it and the indication alone with it. That's what most femininity is. Its just interesting to read what were primary influences for it.
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And here's a strange comment made by someone to me... they pointed out how many answers on here sounded as if femininity was positive yet masculinity was almost seen as a negative in retrospect. What do you gurls think? Do you see "masculine" traits as a negative thing on any degree?[/SIZE]
I know that i am putting my head on the block now as i have to agree with you that femininity has nothing to do with cloths, i could wear the most feminine clothes you could think of , yes it might make me feel feminine but i would still not be feminine the the most feminine person you could think of could wear old rags and she would be still feminine so working on that i do not see how it can be "the clothes" it is an Essenes that is much deeper than what you wear .Quote:
Originally Posted by
[B
And as far as positive and negative in male or female i do not see how that would work ether , i do not see how it would work in those terms but if i had to put it that way i would say that it would be the same in ether gender other wise we would not be here as a race of humans .
joanne :heehee:
Not at all DD. The truely balanced person exhibits both masculine and feminine qualities and utilizes them in a positive way.:)
What she said ^ :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Salandra
"Masculine traits"?
Well...if you mean physical traits, like bigness or hairyness or narrow hips or big hands and feet then the answer is probably a resounding yes!
But if you mean acculturated psychological traits, the answer is "mas o menos", more or less.
We hate the loudness, the gruffness, the boasting that comes with typical 'macho' behaviour.
We hate the 'failure to read directions' or to take advice that are stereotypical male traits.
We hate the testosterone fueled competitive spirt that makes us do foolish and dangerous things on a dare.
We hate that 'real men' are always on the prowl for pussy.
But we love the paternal feelings of protectiveness for our loved ones that echo the maternalistic feelings of nurturing. We love the "strong silent types" that also echo the stoic attitudes of long suffering, strong women.
Not all "maleness" is bad. Thats why so many here, especially those with families, attest that they would never give up at least a part of their maleness. Those men have found out how to be the right kind of "man". The kind that are sure of themselves in their masculinity. And the kind that make their women proud of them.
From my point of view i feel balance is the key there are limits but i accept myself just as i am both good and badQuote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter
It might be fodder for another thread entirely, but we neglect ever speaking of the negative aspects of femininity, too.
To be 100% feminine, does one also have to be a bit catty, whiny, nagging, devious?
Those are the traits we assign to the women who have wronged us.
We have a love/hate relationship with the idea of womanhood. And I tend to think that we avoid talking about that aspect of it. If that's the case, we are fooling ourselves a little bit.
(Jenny Rotten is gonna loooove this one!)
Gosh, I agree about the depth of this topic. Femininity is a feeling to me, like the tingle of the skin you feel whne your slip slides across your freshly shaven leg. Feminenity is how you feel at piece after a long day and now you are home from work relaxing in a hot perfumed tup with candles burning all around. Femineity is shopping and being treated like one of the girls. Femininty is how I feel right now after being able to compose this little discription of what it is to be me.
I have read all the posts so far hoping for inspiration...my definition of what is feminine is not an easy one to formulate. In many ways I have often thought of what I want is to distance myself from the actions of some men or not to be associated with them. I am writing of the abuse that seems to be perpetrated mainly by males in it's various forms and also of the criminal acts that predominantly men seem to do. Also I like the way women seem to be able to share on so many different levels to qoute Rachel Morley
Even though these traits are not exclusively feminine.Quote:
To me, being feminine is naturally showing: Kindness, sympathy, gentleness, patience, empathy, nurturing, motherly, being able to openly express one's emotions, being caring, being a good listener etc, etc.
Yes, the dressing certainly is sensuous and after wearing 'over-engineered' male clothes and shoes, it is a delight to wear clothes that are more delicate and so wonderfully formed.
I enjoy dressing in female clothing, pure and simple. I am a casual dresser by nature but my attire must be fashionable, clean and stylish. My feminism starts and stops with my feeling attractive to myself when I look at myself in the mirror, whether I only underdress or put on something a little more feminine.
Although, like many of us, I must remain closeted, I do venture out on occasion wearing sandals, capris, feminine top, earrings and lipstick. No one mistakes me as a female in my little excursions: the gas station, the donut shop, the nail salon and the fast food drive up.
I have become tattooed with some beautiful feminine colors and designs, I have laid out in the sun and gotten some feminine tan lines and they have all been noticed by medical personnel during examinations. I have not tried to conceal anything and have become more and more relaxed in my feminism.
Granted, I consider all of these people to be strangers and someone who I may not encounter everyday and I have not found in necessary to explain my sexuality but I have had the desire to become more open in my feminism.
The times when I have tried to present myself as totally a woman are the times when I am with another group of crossdressers and I try to save ourselves any public embarrassment by outing the group by not presenting a total female appearance.
My dressing is for me, the feelings that I have when I feel pretty and soft and non-threatening. When I experience these feelings, I feel that I have achieved true femininity and it is meaningful for me.
I apologize as I have been away from the site and responded to the initial thread and then read backwards the replies.
I have a daughter, as many of you do as well, and I try to instill in her some of the "male characteristics" that I think will make her more successful as she becomes a mature person and enters adulthood.
I have a son, as many of you do as well, and I try to instill in him some of the "female characteristics" that I think will make him more successful as he becomes a mature person and enters adulthood.
I am sure that I will leave out many, many characteristic by listing but I want my daughter to be confident in herself, that she is equal (not better nor worse) than every person she meets in her lifetime; that she is not afraid to take risks (behold the turtle only makes progress when she sticks her neck out); that she takes responsibility for her own decisions and actions and that she becomes equally adept in leadership or as a member of the group.
I am sure that I will leave out many, many characteristics but I want my son to be more patient, more understanding, more compassionate, be more adaptable to change and show others around him that he loves them and tell them everyday. Does this sound like a confession?
Personally, for me, extremes are not a good thing. I am uncomfortable with people who are extremely one way of another whether it be extremely masculine or extremely feminine. To be the best person that we can possibly be, we must be a little part of everyone we meet.
I think that it is a bit unfair to say that a lot of masculine thing can be seen as negative do i have to remind you that there are people on there that want to be masculine are you saying they have to be come negative to achieve that , you have the two ends of the spectrum, very masculine to very feminine and then everything in between none of it being positive or negative, you do not need to be out of balance to be anywhere on that scale , and i will still say that femininity comes from the inside, but the clothes can act like a placebo they have made you believe that you are feminine which yes that is a good thing because it makes you feel good about your self.
Have you ever seen a male and said to yourself he looks feminine, well he might hate it and no matter what he doe`s he will not be able to loose it because it is in he a part of him no matter what he wears or doe`s , the same can work for a masculine female , it comes from your inner body your life spirit not your Brian as that can be altered and controlled.
ok so i am mad :devil::D:doh:
joanne
When im dressed,im feminine,when not i can be masculine or wishing i was Claire
In my long and rambling earlier post, my intended message was there, but buried pretty deep. I have thought about this topic quite a bit over the last couple days, and (to me anyway) its pretty simple.
Being feminine to me means not only emulating the behaviours that GGs have, be they clothes, makeup, whatever, but also enjoying those behaviours for the same reason GGs do...they simply feel good.
Doing these things dosent mean you arent masculine, men also do things for the enjoyment. The dividing line between fem. and mas. just seems to be decided by everyone around us, we are just along for the ride.
Knew what i wanted to say, but it took reading a similar post in a different section of this forum to help sort that all out. Kudos to ZenFrost, for using masculinity to help me define femininity, for myself at least.
Terri
I personally don't see "masculine" as a negative. I myself am both feminine and masculine, though my outward appearance is very feminine (mind you, in this respect I think I identify most with CDers as it is a balance of both traits I strive for).Quote:
Originally Posted by joanne f
BUT!
Sometimes when we post, we focus on a particular subject as a positive and thus reflecting the opposite almost as a negative without directly stating so. I hadn't really thought about that much until I started this thread and had it pointed out to me.
This was in no way a reflection on those that are FTM. I myself, have dressed as a man on many occasions and have several FTM friends. It was really just an observation that sparked a new question for those that post about loving to be feminine.
What I love about the responses so far is NONE of them have yet to label "feminine" as a specific style nor action. Merely a feeling or a desire to feel a certain way.
I would love to hear a few GG's responses on this as well.
Masculinity is not a negative thing. There are a lot of us here who are somewhat obsessed with the feminine aspect, to the detriment of any masculine traits they may have. There are some here who really should have been born female, as their masculine identity has brought them nothing but misery. They so obsess with being feminine, they cannot enjoy the lives they already have.
But Salandra is right. In order to achieve any happiness in any of this, one needs to strike a balance, and embrace both aspects of their lives. Life force is made up of both the masculine and the feminine, and one cannot exist in a vacuum, without the other. Just as good cannot be defined without the existence of evil, the feminine cannot exist without the presence of the masculine. Both have their positives and negatives. Both provide for a great deal of fun and amusement as well.
I advocate embracing both.
I think the easiest way to understand how a MTF CD understands femininity is to understand that femininty represents the opposite of masculinity. Femininity is everything that masculinity is not, it is everything that is taboo for men to do.
Tracing this back to its roots, I believe that since men occupied and vied for positions of power, displaying any emotion that could be manipulated as a weakness was rejected as a basis for masculinity. So all caring, nurturing, sensitive feelings were neutered. However families and society at large need these values to stay together, they are the social glue which was left to women to express. They are not weak emotions but very strong ones but because they can be manipulated, men were taught to avoid them. Men need to unlearn this destructive aspect of male conditioning.
As far as the aesthetics go, women have looks, mannerisms and grace that are simply absent from male behavior. Men are not taught about presentation and so are rough and ready which makes female mannerisms mystical to us. It is like being allured by the sparkle from a cut and polished diamond while men are like lumps of coal. Over the centuries these looks and mannerisms have been fine tuned into feminine sensuality which men are drawn to like bears to honey. many cultures developed this idea as a specific skill or art form like the Geisha.
Everyone wants for themselves things which they find attractive. CD men want female sensuality so we step over the taboo line drawn in the sand and take it for ourselves. Fear of taboo and social stigmatization is the only thing which holds other men back from doing this.
You are correct in pointing out that CDs typically view masculinity as being negative. The allure of the dream that they are actually women involves them undertaking male bashing as part of their validation process. There are certainly some aspects of men which are unpleasant but that is true of women as well. CDs don't take on the negative feminine values because we have the luxury to choose the traits we want to explore but we should also focus on developing our positive masculine qualities at the same time.
Then again we don't come here this specific forum to express our masculine traits but to enjoy our feminine ones.
True femininity? To me that means having everything, and I mean everything that a true genetic women goes through. I am not talking about the clothes, manners, etc, that has been stated on in this thread. True femininity to me means dealing with PMS, being pregnant, the emotion of the "clock ticking" if you can't have a child, osteoporosis, checking yourself each month for breast, cervical caner (and all of the other cancers a women has to worry about). To take it a step further, having to worry with all of the medical problems that are unique to a women.
Calling traits "masculine" or "feminine" is a negative to me. Humans have good & bad potential traits that are not defined by what your birth gender is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter