Marriage Is Sacred

Marriage in my opinion is not sacred but an outdated concept or ideal. Society has changed and the 1950's era where marriage could work is dead and gone. The era where the man was the bread winner and the woman stayed home raised the kids. Times have changed it takes both the man and the woman to work and pay the mortgage now the kids go to daycare. The woman no longer has to take the submissive role since she is earning just as much if not more than the man. Women today will not tolerate being dictated to by the man the way the used to in the 50's. There is too much temptation on either side if the fence. Society now is set up for marriages to fail. Somebody here referred to marriage as a "contract" look at that word it has "con" at the begining of it, that should be an indication right there.

There is nothing sacred IMO about marriage I dont believe in a father figure that lives in the sky that will smight me for lack of faith or if I do evil, so there is nothing to make a vow to.

As for relationships I have learned the hard way that it is better to tell her as soon as possible for an open honest relationship. Besides I shave everywhere now so the moment I take off my clothes questions arise.

Husbands should not hide things from their wives. True. But the cold, absolute approach that a few of you are taking fails to account for human nature. Consider this..

What if he's sure she would leave if she knew? For all the talk about the sanctity of marriage, what about the choice between the truth, and destroying that marriage? I do NOT advocate lying to your wife, I'm just saying that the choice isn't always so simple.

It's also been said that you should tell her before she even becomes your wife. This is absolutely true. This is by far the best option, but keep in mind that not everyone can do this.

Why?

For one, it's not always true when you get married. Self discovery happens at a different pace for everyone, and he may not have started cross dressing until he got married.

Also, there are those that swear it off, and decide to change for their wives. They think like you do, if doing something has a negative impact on my marriage, then I'll just not do it. This NEVER works. They fall off the wagon, and land right into a pair of heels.

I had only recently come out to my wife of 15+ years and although she has been supportive I did not tell her out of obligation but rather an expanding waredrobe for Charlotte and a realization that she would sooner or later find out.
I hadn't told her in the beginning mostly because like most CDers I myself was unsure of why I was doing this, and later because I felt if I had a hard time understanding what I was doing how could I expect her to.

:2c:

A strange post, Tessa.

It is unfortunate that the tone of your post comes across as hostile and aggressive - like a man, in fact.

My reply assumes that you had a serious point to make, although it's hard to tell as the confrontational undertone to your post makes it feel like a 'Flame': an inflammatory post designed solely to provoke a reaction and with no merit of its own.

Your posting fails to recognise the pragmatism with which a CD manages the relationship with his partner. Many wives would feel sufficiently threatened/upset with the revelation that their partner was a CD to cause serious difficulties - possibly leading to marriage difficulties or even divorce. It is because CDs love their partners and wish to spare them pain or embarrassment that they stay silent. It is NOT about deception or deceit.

Perhaps when you are a little more experienced in life - and have more empathy with others - you will understand.

Life should be filled with Joy - not the anger you display in your post. I hope you come through this phase to a brighter future - one where you come to accept others regardless of their human frailties.

xxx
Sarah

(Who told his partner the same night he proposed - and is still happily married 31 years later)

I told my wife why before we even talked about getting married. She knows every thing about me then anyone should know. She is my wife, my partner, my best friend for life. and so far we have made it past 7 years of marrage and over 8 years of being together. every now and then she saids i love you no matter what i wear male or female yes i may be lucky to be with her, but i have to be honest with her in order to have her in the rest of my life

Missy

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Originally Posted by Miss Tessa

I find it disgusting that alot of CD's hide their dressing from their wives

Marriage is about a sacred team, a union, and it entails honesty and I think if you CD you should disclose it.

Your kids don't need to know but your wives? Come on!

That's like as bad as cheating. It' Omission and it's lying.

I hear all these posts like, "How can I hide my pantyhose from my wife." Jesus. That is pure deception.


Imagine how your wife would feel.






I think your CD'ing is less of a problem for them than the lying and sneaking around.

I know you're not real women like me so it's hard to think of it how SHE might feel, but I would rather him be honest and tell me he had a perversion (if she thinks of it that way) rather than being deceptive AND doing your thing too.

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Miss I told my wife long before we were married it was her choice for me to hide my activitys same could go for other here

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Originally Posted by MJ

...........she after 21 years ask me to pack my bags and get the hell out and told everybody we knew including the church ...
i lost my wife my children my church. my friends. you tell me how would you feel. i understand why many can't tell i lost the one i truly loved ..........

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Could you have done that to her if the situation was turned around?
I gotta wonder sometimes if alot of you aren't really better off without someone that could do this, including so called friends.

I know I couldn't act like that to my SO no matter what she did, its mean spirited to say the least what she did, and thats putting it as mildly and as nicely as I can. I see their church has failed them just like so many others have, hell when are the stonings going to come back in style again w/ these hypocrites!

I'm sorry about your experience, hope you can at least get back your relationship w/ your kids, cd-ing is no reason to be away from them and assisting in raising them either. You sound like you can offer them alot and I'm sure you love them dearly, don't let these hypocrites beat you down.

I'm from a religious backround myself and can honestly say as a non practicing Christian (isn't everyone really), the ones that do attend church couldn't hold a candle to my good deeds done truly from the heart and my acceptance of others. Aside from your children, I personally think your not missing much like you think you had w/ the others.

My hope for you is that you find another SO that does TRULY love you as you did your ex SO and you renew your relationship w/ your kids for their and your sake.

It has been said by many others here in the past, but it can never be repeated too often. Everyone's circumstances are different.

I started cross-dressing late in life -- a few years after I married. It is, and has always been, a private activity. I dress once a week or so, always alone. I have never had any urge to do more than that.

I am a very logical person, and when it became obvious that cross-dressing was a fairly permanent part of my life, I debated with myself whether I should tell my wife.

So I asked myself the key question. What was the benefit to her?

I struggled to find any. Yes, it would be more "honest". But what was the practical benefit of that honesty?

No, the only practical benefit I could think of was that it removed the slim possibility that she would arrive home unexpectedly and see me as she had never seen me before.

Weigh that against the near-certainty that she would not find CD-ing to be a positive thing. I had great faith in the strength of our marriage, and I knew it wouldn't lead to us splitting up, but I was pretty certain that she would not like it. So I would simply be throwing a negative factor into her life.

Telling her, I concluded, would be just like those men who confess to an affair long after it's in the past. They're not being "honest", they're just offloading their guilt.

But, about a year ago, against my own best instinct, I told my wife about my CD-ing. I'm still not quite sure why.

And it panned out exactly as I expected. She was shocked, but very quickly made small gestures to reassure me that her love for me was as strong as ever. She even gave me make-up lessons and some of her old clothes, although she made it very clear that she never wanted to see me wearing them. It remains a private activity.

But it quite obviously causes difficulties for her. When we talk about it, as we do from time to time, she does admit that it is something she wishes was not there. She broke down in tears one day and said: "it's the very first thing about you that I don't like" (and we've been together 17 great years).

And to this day I ask myself if I did the right thing in telling her. And I am still not sure.

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Originally Posted by sissystephanie

It would appear that many of you have no clue as to what "marriage" means. If that offends anyone I am sorry. But it does apply even to those who have been married and are now divorced, or on number 2 or 3 wife. Marriage is a Sacred obligation for a lifetime, and should be regarded as such. Someone said that "most people who are married shouldn't be." I don't think that "most" is the correct word in that statement. Many people should not be married, for many different reasons. If you are not willing to make the total committment that is necessary for a marriage to work, then you should not get married. Part of that committment is full and complete honesty between both parties. If you cannot, for whatever reason, do that you should not be married!!

The notion that our views of marriage should change because society has changed are ludicrous. Society has not changed in that regard, a segment of society has discarded moral values in favor of "what makes ME happy" values.

To not tell your wife about your CD activities is a total copout. But the time to tell her is BEFORE she becomes your wife. If you want to live with her for the rest of your lives, then you have to be totally honest about who and what you are. If she cannot, or will not, accept that you are a CD, then you need to find someone else.


Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

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Thanks Stephanie. You obviously place great value on relationships and respect your partner. Obviously the best time to tell a potential wife/partner is before you committ to spending the rest of your lives together. It really isn't fair on either of you to hide such a big part of your personality away from the person who is supposed to be the closest to you.
I completely understand where a CD is coming from by hiding this part of their life from the woman that they love, but it has got to be one of the biggest risks you could possibly take because the chances are you will get found out. That said because I understand where you are coming from and what you would stand to lose if you are in a long term relationship, it would be very difficult to judge those of you who have chosen to keep quiet, so I wont do. However I dont think trying to justify it by comparing CDing to eating ice cream and watching foreign films in secret is in any way a fair comparison even if it was said tongue in cheek.
Sorry girls, I am trying to understand and I am a supportive partner, but of Cross dressing not deceit and one of the reasons I find it so easy to accept is because I unlike many of my female counterparts was given the choice at the beginning of the relationship to walk away if I didn't like the truth. I really respected him for that and felt very flattered that he loved and respected me enough to entrust me with something so very personal. It is a truly wonderful experience to know that your partner values your relationship and does see it as something to be cherished and dare I say it sacred.
Take care
Bev

Growing up my family has always been very close. My grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles all stayed married and are still married to this day. (Grandparents have passed away years ago but they stayed married). So when I became married my thought was it would last forever. 12 years went by and problems started happening. My thoughts on marriage changed over those years. Yes I feel it is a commitment but also a commitment can be made with out marriage. Now that works for me. With others things are different. What works for one person may not work for another. The greatest this is finding that person you are strong with, you compliment each other, you bring out the best in each other, and you are truly happy together.

Yes we all have fears too about telling that special person in your life secrets. My ex kept secrets from me, hid the fact he cheated on me, and mentally wore me down with abuse. It took me 12 years to get up the nerve to kick him out. I stayed with him because I wanted it to work out so bad because we were married.

My thoughts have changed a lot since then. I am with my wonderful CDer now and I am just so happy he told me about it. I have been helping him go shopping for clothes and see some myself I want. I get a little jealous because most of the clothes he buys I can't fit into and I wish I could. LOL hopefully that will change as soon as we get our butts in gear and do some exercising.

I don't like secrets either, I want to be told so I know how we can work together to fix the issue or figure out what we can do next. I am glad my SO told me and I told a few secrets of my own. The problem that lies with me is I put all my trust into my previous marriage and sometimes my thoughts run away with me and the trust issue reflects on my SO. It is nothing he has done, it is just my insecurities. I don't want to be hurt.


Maybe it is putting all your time, effort, love, and energy into a relationship and with one event or word it can come crashing down or blossom into something more meaningful and bring two people closer. Who knows. We all are different and have our own thoughts on what is acceptable and what is not. The biggest key to anything in a relationship (IMHO) is communication between the two people and honesty.

Ok that is my :2c:

Thanks for reading

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Originally Posted by Miss Tessa

I think your CD'ing is less of a problem for them than the lying and sneaking around.

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[SIZE="3"]Really see my latest thread about someone I just started to date then make this statement again please.[/SIZE] :sad: :cry:

My wife knows Bot for many years she didn't and I regret keeping it from her. But I never know how understanding and accepting she would be.And I can see where these girls are coming from in not wanting there fives to know it's just self preservation.:hugs:
Angie

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Originally Posted by Sarah Martin

:2c:

It is because CDs love their partners and wish to spare them pain or embarrassment that they stay silent. It is NOT about deception or deceit.

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Thank you, Sarah! You are the first person on this board to express my feelings about "the Big Lie."

It is ironic that all of the people who put down "society" for not accepting whatever lifestyle, gender, sexual identity, etc that they want to present....are the same people who don't give "society" a similar right to have a difference of opinion.

If you want to tell whoever whatever you do whenever you do, then do it. If you don't, then don't. Stop judging others who have a different opinion.

Please have an open mind which is what you want everyone else to have.

A secret kept to avoid hurting the one you love is better than a secret revealed that causes you to lose the one you love.
(MJ, I'm sorry, hon, I think of you when I write this)

And don't say, "well, if she really loved you, it wouldn't matter." Have an open mind. She has a right not to like it!

I find it disgusting that there is so much anthropological ignorance and cultural and religious bias in this thread.

1. Marriage is not and never ever has been throughout all recorded history a practice belonging to just one religious or cultural tradition. As such while it may be sacred it is not sacred for all.

2. Not all marriage definitions are the same. Therefore is a heteronormative abrahamic mongomaus marriage is sacred then so to is a animist polygamous one. Either all religious marriages are sacred or none are.

3. Many cultures marriages are not lifelong. Many exist till children reach a certain age or for a certain number of years.

And finally there still exists a right to privacy in marriage. This is essential to protect people from abusive and controlling partners. No human rights are ceded in a marriage.

And as almost everyone keeps some secrets from their partner until the approximately 1 in 3 SO's whove had affairs fess up to their CD husbands or for that matter the number who have had sex with dogs (i don't recall the percentage but it was over 1% of the general female population) which is unethical unlike CDing then let us stop considering deception as purely a CD thing!

Now everyone please remember this is an international, multi-cultural forum and as net use and English language use grows you'll be dealling with more and more people from different traditions and belief systems.

So please learn a bit about cultural diversity! Stop thinking of marriage purely from a 20th Century Heteronormative Judeo-Christian Monogamous standpoint and deal with the reality of the rest of the world!

hi.... this is a open can of worms ..wow...(( marrage )) what we have in mind here is really a uion of two people.. the coming to gether of two people to have babys . childen ..to be a help to each other . to love each other to show kindness . . to, be a friend ..a soul mate.. to live to gether all ways .. thats the ideal .. now lets get back to real life is this the case ..ill leave that open ..........i am 61 . we jos & i have been to gether over 35 years. we still live in our own home . we had our marrage anould last year . we have 3 grown up kids & 5 grand kids with one more on the way . i did not do the dressing side of things . i knew at 10 i was not all boy . there was a part of me a girl. did i hide that ..no.. i could not tell you what was going on in side of me how could i . i did not know.. we were married in the 70.s i was 24 & yes like others up & down like a yo yo . its a wonder we stayed to gether . its a wonder i got through life really ... i told jos 11 years ago i was a women as said the bomb went off the start of the 11 years hell . the dust has settled now & we get on with life our kids as well we all went through it . i think we all will get through it . the main ?? is would i have told jos before we got to gether . ill not answer for any one other than my self here ...... yes...... had i known 35 years ago. i could not . i did not even know my self in this regard .. that i as a women . would be let free . we are programed even if we dont like it . its there....... my program was set to start 11 years ago evey thing inside of me just changed & i knew what was going to happen .. please dont put on us . what others have tryed to do for years. i have heard it all before . i have 50 years of trying to be what i was told . a man yet i knew i was not . we do not lie or decive .. we just dont know.. we could not just go up to some one & say hi i am a women .. as they look at us they see a man ....hey come on whats going on here we are women just have the male body. so get real we did not have a say as to how we looked at birth. no say at all.....those who dress may be not all the time . they like me had no say ...so what we have is i understand now ..i am wired both male & female . not every one is . we are all different ....so have you concidered this. choices can be made by people as to things they do or not ... some of us dont have that we dont have that choice . being us . part of the problem is people dont know us or what we are going trough .. the real us .
something that has been said is we live in different countys so what applies to one may be different for others so this needs to be concidered as well .....i belive understanding of were we are in all of this needs to be looked at in a way that does not belittle us . so if there are things said here give us the curtisy of explaining why we can not tell others or for some of us our s o . or pratners... ...noeleena...

I think that some wives are really okay with crossdressing... However, I have not heard one wife who was okay with the hiding, the secrecy, and the lying that happens when a CD does not tell his wife.

In every relationship, husband-wife, parent-child, manager-employee, there is a certain amount of trust that is expected of all parties. When that trust is violated in some manner, it may be difficult or impossible to rebuild the trust. And for husbands and wivess, if you cannot trust the one you love with your whole heart and soul, then who can you trust?

Robyn

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Originally Posted by RobynP

I think that some wives are really okay with crossdressing... However, I have not heard one wife who was okay with the hiding, the secrecy, and the lying that happens when a CD does not tell his wife.

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My first response is to agree with you -- but then I remember all of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" arrangements that the various members have mentioned, a great many of which are of the nature of "If you are going to do this, hide it from me: better that you should lie than that I should have to think about it". (Some of the arrangements are, though, instead "I guess it isn't a deal breaker for me, at least in theory, but I'm not sure I could stand seeing it in practice.")

Earlier in this thread I posted as the devils advocate bring up some hypothetical parallels to secrecy in a marriage. This time I am bringing up my side which is not hypothetical but might be the same situation for others on this board.

As I have said before, I have been dressing and having the feeling of dressing since I was young. However like I have also said before my feeling for dressing goes in waves. I have had times where I felt like dressing a lot and when I have had those feeling and the chance to do so, I have. There have been other times when I have not felt like dressing at all and didn't even give it a thought.

Prior to meeting my wife I was on one of those waves where it was not even a thought. I didn't get the feeling again until after a few years after we were married. I didn't say anything before (like a lot of people on this board say you should do) because I did not have the feeling to dress at the time, it had been so long since I felt like dressing, and I didn't think I would get that feeling again. It did not even enter my mind because I was in a different place at that time.

My wife an I discussed almost every aspect of how we felt about religion, raising children, sex and our future. What we did not do was dig into our past relationships or anything like that. We new we loved each other with all of our hearts and didn't care who each other had slept with. That is even a side note because my dressing never had anything to do with my sexual preference.

Now I do admit I did not tell her when the feeling came back which was wrong, but at that point I was too scared of causing major problems with our marriage because my family is every thing to me and I don't want to lose that. I admit I do cd but not very often because it is not worth losing my family over it. We have had very deep discussions about sex and sexual preference for us and others, we are very open about others doing what ever they want but so far from our discussions, she likes the fact I am a bit rugged. This morning she said I'm not like the boyfriends she had before she met me. They were pretty boys and she loves how I am ruggedly handsome.

Since, I have thought about all of the things I never mentioned like when I was a kid I stole a candy bar, I snuck into a buildings private pool and went swimming, I got into a car of a friend who took his mothers car late one night for a ride and did not have a license and I'm sure if I think real hard I could remember other things I forgot to mention but it was not something I said to myself, I am going to hide this from her.

I am saying this because the way it usually comes across it the people who has dressed before getting married made a conscious decision to hide this from there SO or future wife pretending to be someone they are not and that is not always the case.

This is NO place for "holier than thou" BS. Ugh. There is nothing sacred about having chosen the wrong person. Boneheaded move on my part AND hers, but definitely not sacred.

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Originally Posted by RobynP

I think that some wives are really okay with crossdressing... However, I have not heard one wife who was okay with the hiding, the secrecy, and the lying that happens when a CD does not tell his wife.

In every relationship, husband-wife, parent-child, manager-employee, there is a certain amount of trust that is expected of all parties. When that trust is violated in some manner, it may be difficult or impossible to rebuild the trust. And for husbands and wivess, if you cannot trust the one you love with your whole heart and soul, then who can you trust?

Robyn

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Robyn, this was the contention we faced...the loss of trust when he didn't discuss this with me first. What was more hurtful was wondering what I had done wrong because before he came out to me, he was downright rude and began ignoring me as if I was a piece of furniture in the room. I know now that came from his insecurities but we'd discussed everything under the sun prior, why not just tell me when it first came up for him?

It will take years to get that trust back in our relationship no matter what. He will wonder if I'm upset at him for dressing, I'll wonder where he is if he's 10 minutes late getting home.
We'll both be wrong. How to fix it is a very difficult task.

I was a lucky one in that my wife (now ex) knew on our wedding night I was a CD because she picked up on my fascination with her wedding night peignoir and asked me if I wanted to wear it. the answer? YES!!

From that point on she was fully involved in all aspects of my CDing and loved it.

Our issues actually started with the usual husband wife conflicts and one of the things I have found that women do a LOT (so much so that is the brunt of many comedians' jokes) is to respond with "nothing" when queried by the husband as to what I wrong when something quite obviously IS wrong and seriously so.

To me that is a proverbial slap in the face to a concerned and loving husband that also telegraphs that "I do not trust you enough to share with you". Given that response a few hundred times, a husband will eventually begin actually NOT caring and just walk away saying "whatever".

So as you can see from my viewpoint at least, that honesty in informing a spouse about a major part of your personality takes a great deal of trust and bravery.

I believe we as CDers (or husbands in general) have the right to expect the same level of honesty and integrity from our wives or SOs.

I fail to see where possession of a vagina affords a free pass on honesty.

In old farmers logic, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

Marriage is sacred?

Fine.

That's God's business, if God cares to do anything about it.

I think not telling your SO can be disgusting, sure. The wiser, braver, and kinder thing is to stop wasting your (common) time and energy on unrevealed behavior and desires and get on with explaining how you feel and what you think you want to do.

Yes, it can be disgusting, but it's more sad, I think. Sad because some poor guy got himself into a deal without, perhaps, fully understanding himself, or, trusting the person he's with for, er, life. Play your cards and live your life. Perhaps that's God's plan for you...

My policy, after my first wife said, "Oh? That's all that was bothering you?" is to just get my thoughts and feelings out there early and often. She unloaded a ton of dresses on me when we divorced (about something else entirely) and I wish I had had room to keep all that stuff.

My second wife, now deceased, was slightly worried about being "outed" at work because of what I was doing, which I thought was both sad and hilarious. I think they would have said, "Man, you must really love this guy to keep him around with all that going on." She would have said, "Well, he's not just tall in one direction..."

People pair up and stay together because they know the other person, and know themselves, and they want to be together. Being open about yourself may close some doors, but it can open others... Be optimistic, not desperate.

Preachers, churches, states, and laws can't really stop "pairing" behavior and the rules within churches and within states are to regulate this fact of life as best can be done from outside a relationship. For example: "If you have problems, we'll try to help you work it out... somehow. Even if we have to beat you up to do it."

The odd thing about the gay marriage thing, when you think about it, is not that people want to marry, but that they want to marry even IF they don't legally have to, or, have a right to...

I get the desire to get married to someone, I just wonder if the former "gay lifestyle" is going to vanish when one half can start saying things to the other half like, "Look, either we get married and do this right or you can forget about ever having sex with me again."

Welcome back to the "wonderful" 1950s - and perfect families.

Tessa, if you find it so disgusting then don't read the da*n threads. The last thing I need is someone with all the answers and a more moral then though attitude telling me how I should live my life. You should become the Dear Abby of the CD set if you feel so strongly about things.

Girls, I just checked Tessa profile, and it looks as if she has been banned. I'm not sure why, It might be time to let this thread expire quietly.

maryklinden, I'm not sure, but are you Miss Tessa ?