Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?
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Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?
Read the forum, read the costs in broken marriages and lives ...... do you think people do that through choice . I DAMN WELL DON'T :Angry3::Angry3:Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
and as foryes it can doQuote:
forced feminization, and everyone knows that doesn't happen.
Where did I say it was EASY?Quote:
Originally Posted by deborah jane
It's not easy, but anyone can quit cd-ing. It all depends on what you want to do. Keep cd-ing if that's your choice. Just don't make excuses and say you can't stop. Because it is a choice and you can stop if you really want to.
My natural disposition is to become highly confrontational. I would typically insist that they stop doing something they love which I could consider legitimately a problem and show them how asking me to do this would feel. Obviously, it would need to be a big habit of theirs, but it is my first reaction.
There is no validity to this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
It has been a part of our lives for so long it's literally hard wired into us. And for what its worth If my wife or family ever made an ultimatum like this to me
I would be very disappointed in them.
To answer the OP's question...I would stick to what I love best...being a lady. I am one of the many who think I should have been born a woman. I did not wake up one morning and think hmmm...I wonder what it's like to wear womens clothing. I have been doing this since I was about 7 or 8. All through my life on & off depending where & who I was living with. Once I was finally on my own,it was alot of the time. Nowadays it's all the time when I am not working. So for me it is not a choice,it's my way of life. I have had plenty of relationships & have never been married. Which is good. They say everything happens for a reason. I believe that. The way I see it is this is the way my life is suppose to be. Heck at least I found this out early in life & didn't destroy other peoples lives by getting married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
Yeah, my choice right?? :Angry3:
C/ding cost me my marriage, my home and my self respect!!
I never even thought about it for over 11 years and it came back at me, believe me if i could have stopped i would have!!
I,m assuming by your posts you,ve quit c/ding?
How long for?
And the golden question.....If you have quit, why are you back on a crossdressing forum?
If you,ve quit, as it would seem you are saying, you wouldn,t even be thinking about c/ding, so why are you here?
really? who decides what forum I can read online?Quote:
Originally Posted by deborah jane
that comment makes no sense. Just because I read this forum doesn't mean I have to cd.
Very true, you can read where and what you want, the point is, that by being here, you prove c/ding is obviously something you still think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
You may not c/d any longer, but by being here you,re proving you still think about it!!
and your point is?Quote:
Originally Posted by deborah jane
If you,ve quit c/ding and if it is indeed possible, why do you still feel the need to think about?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
How long has it been since you last c/ded?
How long have you been quit?
I know for a fact it never even crossed my mind for 11 years, i wouldn,t have even thought about looking for information about it during that time!!
Sheila, you are exactly right here. I know. I went through it, nearly literaly went insane, hearing voices etc. It wasn't until I accepted being a crossdresser while I was in therapy (Christian therapists at that) that finally I received peace. I've told my story in other threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila
Also accepting my CD'ing also allowed me to determine how far it extended as far as being TS or what.
Yes it is true for a CD as well. After having peace about it for years, it was easy to determine that I was "just" a crossdresser and that I have no desire to go any farther. When you struggle with accepting yourself, you have no idea how far you need to go because of all the anguish. You can't sit still and listen to your heart. That changes when you truly accept yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by jruiz
I have spoken of my ultimatum elsewhere before but a potted history is:-
I have worn nighties and panties in my wifes presence for years and she was ok with it.
Within 3 weeks of my being honest with her about my inner desires and expanding into regular daywear female attire i had the ultimatum "stop or i leave"
We argued long and hard. I offered several compromises but all were rejected with no compromise coming back the other way. I said i couldn't stop dressing and we ended up saying we would therefore split sell the house and go our separate ways (we had even told family members we were splitting up)
Eventually, to try to save my marriage one last time i made the offer to go back to nighties and panties only and stop the rest (not really knowing whether i could cope with this offer.)
She asked why i did this and i said i loved her and didnt want to lose her.
After time mulling it over she came back with the response that we would stay together and she loved me too and it was unfair of her to ask me to stop doing what made me happy and i could carry on dressing provided i didn't involve her and no-one else was to know.(which were boundaries we had in place for that initial 3 week period anyway)
So basically it got very very close to the edge but all came good in the end but every couple is different so the outcomes could be different.
Though yours is an extreme case Katrina, I think that my girlfriend's statements of disapproval are partly because she does object, but also partly because she feels that if I don't stop, drop, and roll on command, I don't love her. I think that your expression of loving her regardless and being willing to end a part of your life for her was enough for her to understand where you're coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrina red nails
In my case, I love my gf, but I do not have any intentions of marrying her, even if we've been together four years. I could not put myself in the position of being simply tied to her demands because it's a hell of a lot harder to leave her once married. My response to her every time she's demanded I stop some part of this has been "You are not tied to me, you can leave at any time. I don't want it, but I'd rather that than the other way around." I think for her it's much more a way to express control than to express displeasure.
I think you have to accept who you are and then manage that as best as you can.In my situation even though I would love to be totally out it is just not possible unless I wanted to jeopardise my marriage and children.I just hope that as time moves on I can have more time to be"me" as my feminine self whether thats at home or at a meeting if the opportunity arises.
Pattie:daydreaming:
That sort of ultimatum from a girl friend would have only one response from me:
"See ya'!"
That would have made it pretty clear that we were not going to have a good relationship so why drag it out?
From a wife? That one is a lot tougher and not to be answered with a flippant reply. I don't know what I'd do if my wife demanded that of me.
I'm responding to Marcie here, but it's really to everyone who might be interested.
You say CDing is a choice. Others here say it's not a choice. Here's the problem... None of us, whether we think it's a choice or not, has any research to back it up.
Transgender issues are almost like the third rail of psychology. There's precious little research being done in this area of humanity. The realit is, there is a HUGE area of research that is essentially untouched ground. There's a few studies here and there, but it's grains of sand vs. what should be a beach. Without the beach, nobody can scientifically say it's a choice or not.
Compare for a moment to research into homosexuality. Increasing evidence strongly points to homosexuality not being a choice. Yet, research in that arena is only just beginning as well. There's just no research into crossdressing at this point to support either position.
For my part, I strongly believe it is not a choice. My unscientific reasons for believing this:
* The vast majority of cross dressers have memories of the desire for or actions in cross dressing at an early age.
* I've yet to hear of any CDer who successfully repressed their desire to crossdress on a permanent basis. Over and over again we hear of CDers who purge, only to come back and crossdress again.
* I have heard of zillions of CDers whose lives were horribly affected due to crossdressing.
* One small study of brain structures in transexual people noted the structures of their brains did not match the gender of their outward appearance, but that of the opposite gender.
Well, I guess that all we can conclude is that we are all different.
In my case, I think that I could quit, but it's not going to be easy. I just hate to have so much self compassion and just quit and enforce the idea that I just can't fight it. Great people through history has had bigger and more difficult battles than this. I can't be such a looser...
However, I have my own strategy: I don't dress that much. I purge too often as to keep a nice collection of feminine clothes, and I hate mediocre results.
The way I almost get over it was a very unusual one: I went to a transformation service. It was my first and only time when somebody else besides me would have ever seen me dressed.
The makeup was great, but still I could see the manly me behind the make up. It was a big turn-off.
The other thing that really helped was that I had a very high fever at the moment, so the experience was not very enjoyable.
The urge went away for very long, until I decided something else: I shaved my body.
I tried to fool myself pretending that it was just a metrosexual impulse to follow fashion, but the first thing I did when I shaved my chest and legs was to create cleavage and put a skirt on... Impossible to describe...
Despite being all shaved, my legs didn't look that feminine. In my illusion, I thought that I would have great girl legs if I shaved. Well, that's what my wife said when she saw them, and they are not that bad to be honest, but wouldn't hold a second view. They are thin, yet muscular and defined. When I was younger I was self conscious about my legs because I thought they were feminine. Well, maybe they were some years ago and I lost the bus...
Again, it was a big turn off to still see the masculine me. But then, I decided that I was going to put the best of my efforts. I'm waiting breast forms a Veronica 2 over the mail. I will go again to transformation service. I will buy the clothes I have ever dream about and that I have researched in forums and hundreds of pictures that would look great on me.
If I don't convince myself with the image, I guess that it will be over. I will figure that my illusions and dreams are not real. And that I will never really be a beautiful woman.
But what if I do convince me, and decide to go to a mall or to the movies?. Who knows...
Ok, couple points here. First off, it sounds like you're in denial more than you are actually quitting or even trying to quit. You have gotten past the point where you acknowledge that you want to be more feminine, which is good, keep running with that. But my advice? Try not purging your collection next time. Stash it in the attic. Literally mothball it. I assure you that once you know that you don't need to keep spending money every time, you'll be more and more likely to want to try it again and get into the swing of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jruiz
Second, you're not a loser because you can't "kick" this. In fact, hate to say it, but it is only gonna become stronger the more time passes. This is why I say don't pitch your stuff when you get sick of trying for a while.
Don't worry about your masculinity showing through your makeup and clothing. Little bits at a time and tips, tricks, and practice will help you disguise much of that. For example, with the help of my gf with some makeup and guidance, I feminized my face for the first time the other day. It wasn't total, I really need some bronzer to help soften my face. I have a fairly long and angular face, but between the various forms of makeup, I drew even my own eyes away from the hard angles and hid them, and really had a more feminine face. I wish I had an objective opinion about how it looked, but I'm not ready to show my face to many people yet.
Its funny that this post came out, I was thinking of writing it myself. It got me thinking about what people have written about not telling your wife or SO if you were a cd. How so many thought it was wrong. Well Im going to take the unpopular stance as well. Crossdressing is a choice. I chose when I get dressed, nobody forces me to do it. Like many others I have been dressing at least partially since i was at least 8 or 9, and had thoughts as long as I can remember back to 5 years old or so. Ive tried to stop at times and it is damn tuff. Its very seldom far from my mind- so I do understand. It cost me my first marriage- my wife found out and couldnt deal with it. She thought I was gay, or may want a sex change soner or latter. She also thought I could never given it up. The funny thing was I would have given up or as told her tried my darndest for her. Why because my marriage vow was till death do us part. To me that was more important than my own personal needs. Sure I may have had emotional distress or not been fully who I am. But I did make that vow. Any type of behavior can be controlled It may be tuff but... Alcoholics stop drinking, people stop gambling... I am not sayin crossdressing is the same but I am saying people can stop things that are hard to do. Crossdressing is not a disease or an illness it is part of who I am but not the whole part. If my wife found out and told me I had to give it up would I. Well I would tell her I would try my utmost as hard as I ever did in my life-because she was what was important. If I can put my life aside and die for her then I can try to stop for her. But then who knows Im a hypocrite because I havent even told her... Gina
Again, we are unique. I can see many people answering transporting their own experiences on others.
I can't tell for sure that it's not a choice for somebody else. Maybe it's hardwired into their brain or whatever. But I just think that it's not my case.
Very well said Pattie I love what you have said, if you are a single CD in some cases you can just walk away, but if you are a married CD then it is a new ball game, and if you have kids too........then you have to work things out...... no CD wants to walk away from his family with out a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattie O
If crossdressing is not a choice............then why is it so hard and painful and difficult to stop, many crossdressers have try to stop only to fail, and those who have stop for a few years have come back with a vengeance.
LA CINDY LOVE
Well lets see. 1 in 3 men and women cheat so it's far more 'normal' than the up to 10% who regularly crossdress. It's unethical when done without informing ones partner because its increased risk of STD transmission puts their life in increased danger. It can be dealt with thoroughly ethically though through open relationships, swinging, polyamory etc which when 1 in 3 husbands and wives wil cheat anyway is really something everyone needs to consider should be far more common in society.Quote:
Originally Posted by jruiz
As for sado-masochism you might find this interesting http://currentaffairs.ninemsn.com.au...spx?&id=620461 as it too is a common healthy part of many peoples lives. It can be unethical when done without informed consent but the strict use of safewords etc that many practitioners use means its often far more ethical than people having sex after a few glasses of wine which interferes with decision making and then is not truely free informed consent.
As for smoking, there is a distinct difference there. Nicotene functions as a neurotransmitter improving brain function temporarily. The body eventually stops bothering wasting energy on producing the neurotransmitter when nicotene is available. Hence a biochemical reliance on the intake of nicotene is the source of the addiction. So it is distinctly different from the others.
Something done for the self is not selfish. Just for the self. Perpetual selflessness goes beyond altruism to self destructiveness. To be selfish it must overide the rights or fair share of others.Quote:
It's about "our" urge (or "my" urge). I'm not thinking in anybody else when I do that. It's selfish, because I care more about how much I like cross dressing than the consequences and the damage I could do in the people I love.
I like the cookie example.
If someone bakes a batch of cookies for themselves and they eat them all that is fair and good. If they bake the cookies for themselves and their flatmate eats them all that is selfish on the flatmates part. The person who bakes them for themselves is not obligated to share, but if they do choose to do so that is generous.
If the cookies are baked for everyone and someone eats a larger share that is selfish. If someone freely chooses to eat a smaller share so that others can eat more that is selfless and then someone benefiting from that is not being selfish.
So then, how is CDing selfish?
I think that is correct.Quote:
Sure, I have the right to enjoy that. I could even be right if I say I deserve to enjoy it.
It's more than nice, some of what you list is fairQuote:
I wish I had everything, cross dressing whenever I like, a wife proud of his cross dresser husband, and a society that would admire me for my efforts for passing as a real girl. Wouldn't it be nice?.
Some of it can be.Quote:
By that's not reality.
Indeed. That was your free and fair consent. You also have a right to withdraw that consent at a moments notice, to renegotiate any agreement. So does your wife. It may not fit peoples view of promises but it is a vital fundamental human right.Quote:
Reality is that I, using my free will, chose my wife and made a promise of being with her until the end of my days. Nobody forced me to.
It seems that there you made an error. You did not consider the possibility that you may not be able to stop in which case for her to give full free informed consent she should have been informed of the potential risk. Thats why even though I too thought I would stop I told my ex about a week into the relationship.Quote:
And I decided, also using my free will, not to tell her because I honestly thought that I would stop.
You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!Quote:
I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.
If it's genetic and neurological than no, no-one does! And it's worth noting that TSs and I expect CDs too are dissproportionately represented amongst the military! So a great many TSs have risked and lost their lives in the defense of their nations, families etc.Quote:
Many other bigger men make bigger sacrifices for their family or for their country. It's just a matter of personal decision.
Not all pain is bad pain. Healing injuries hurt, antiseptic stings. When racial desegregation ended plenty of white people suffered from having to share with black people. That was a good pain. Same with men having to suffer women in their workplace. And to make it more personal parents havign their sons and daughters dating or marrying outside their race/culture/religion!Quote:
Originally Posted by jruiz
Not all choices are ethical.Quote:
That's another difficult one. But it's also a matter of choice.
Based on what assumptions?Quote:
A loving CD would not force others to accept dressing, if it's difficult for their beliefs or for any other reason. This is also a two ways road.
Lets look at this real-life example of someone I have met. A husband and father had been adopted. He and his family had been somewhat anti-semitic. When he discovered he was really of Russian-Jewish ancestry everyone felt hurt about it. Could he, let alone should he, not force his family to accept that he, and his kids, were Jews? That his wife was married to a Jew?
Because if CDing is even remotely as biological in origin as TS is then that is worth contemplating.
If a son is Gay should they lie and hide that from their parents or is the obligation on the parents to cope with an uncomfortable reality?
Protecting people from pain that they need to go through in order to grow or heal is called in Bhuddism Idiot Compassion. Delaying neccessary pain which in fact will likely worsen the pain when it finally is felt. Whereas easing the neccessary pain and smoothing the process is more genuinely and intelligently compassionate according to bhuddism.
Remember, You're entitled to happiness too!!!!
Sure! But it would be sad that my happiness relies and depends only in cross dressing.[/QUOTE]
But doesn't your UNhappiness result from repressing your crossdressing?
I partially agree with what Marcie has posted. Cding is a choice. However, the urge, often the very powerful urge, to CD is not a choice. As others here have posted, I have received the ultimatum, and tried to stop for the sake of my marriage. Because of my continuing urges I sought counselling, not to stop CDing, but to deal with it in connection to my marriage. My therapist told me that for me to be truely happy about myself I would probably have to get a divorce. So here I sit, still married because I love my wife and am willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage. How long will it be before the balance tips and I decide that she is being more selfish than I am in her demand that I not CD? I don't know, but I suspect it will eventually happen. So, one day I will be a happy CDer, but unhappily divorced, unless I can get her to accept, which I expect will make her unhappy too. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy......Stephanie
I'm in complete agreement with my Batty friend above - Crossdressing is typically not something you can suppress. If you just do it for kicks like for Rocky Horror, obviously, but if your SO can't understand doing that, then she should probably consider having that stick removed surgically from her ass. The Puritans largely died out for a good reason.Quote:
Quote:
I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.
You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!
If, on the other hand, you do it because of some urge, well, sorry, that's a life-long condition. I know, it sucks in some ways because of situations like this, but really, if someone can't accept every major aspect of you, are they worth that much angst? Even if you stay with them, just don't let it get to you.
Anyway, she's right - Could you give it up? I guess with the best of efforts and constant thought training, you could probably stop, but the desire would never go away.
Just as for example eating is a choice but the urge to eat is not a choice. But we do not have the capacity to choose not to eat without the consequence of starving to death (or for the pedantic who suggest a liquid diet of losing all our teeth at the least)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie-L
So is CDing like eating? After all the consequence on not CDing appears to be stress, anger, depression, anxiety and suicide.
Or is it like breathing, a reflex that one must conciously fight against to stop?
Hmm perhaps it is more like sleeping... again a reflex that you must conciously fight to supresss but if you go for long without sleep then you also get many of the same symptoms.
Whereas I've not heard of such symptoms from quitting a sport or other hobby. Are such symptoms also found to the same long-term extent and degree amongst SO's trying to accept a partners CDing?
And consider then that an SO who asks or demands a CD 'quit' is requesting or demanding they suffer long term struggle of will and risk their long-term mental health and perhaps even life for them.
How has it been considered fairest that you try and quit rather than they try and accept? How was your suffering measured against your wife's? How was the risk to your health measured against any risks to hers coming from her attempting to accept your CDing?Quote:
As others here have posted, I have received the ultimatum, and tried to stop for the sake of my marriage. Because of my continuing urges I sought counselling, not to stop CDing, but to deal with it in connection to my marriage.
Is she equally willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage? Where is the reciprocal self-sacrifice on her part? If she instead tried to accept your cDing is that as comparable a suffering as your self-denial is?Quote:
My therapist told me that for me to be truely happy about myself I would probably have to get a divorce. So here I sit, still married because I love my wife and am willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage.
Surely that cannot be time dependant if your being honest in your appraisal? It either is unfair now or fair now. If its unfair now and you are merely waiting till your capacity to tolerate such unfairness wears out then surely trying to do something about the situation before it gets to that point would be fairer on everyone, especially as you would be more able to go slowly at a pace she can handle when you still have nore resiliance left at your disposal?Quote:
How long will it be before the balance tips and I decide that she is being more selfish than I am in her demand that I not CD? I don't know, but I suspect it will eventually happen.
Remaining repressed = long-term unhappiness. Being divorced may = long term unhappiness and will equal short term unhappiness. Her attempted acceptance will equal short term unhappiness but unless it results in divorce which is possible then what is the risk of it resulting in long-term unhappiness?Quote:
So, one day I will be a happy CDer, but unhappily divorced, unless I can get her to accept, which I expect will make her unhappy too. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy......Stephanie
If your making a gamble its worth understanding the possibilities and trying to estimate the odds. And if she makes a choice which is a gamble, as any ultimatum is, is it done with all the requisite information? Did she understand the possible and probable long-term consequences of her demand upon your health? Was she willingly risking your life?
Was her decision informed or uninformed? Based on data or wishful thinking or worse on willfull ignorance?
Julie: This is one of the best things I have read on this I agree with you 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieC
Life changes, people change, you have to be willing to give and take somewhat in every relationship. Anyone giving you an ultimatum may down the road do the same because you are too fat, too sick, or too depressed.
In each of the above scenarios each of us could have a breaking point or a limit - but that would be at the end of the rope. Not at the beginning. And Cding has very many levels and points at which compromise can be reached by mutual engagement.
If someone is not willing to meet you at least a quarter of the way, they may not be the person for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
CDing is not just something that we do, it is who we are. I can change what I do, but how many more pieces of my soul am I expected to cut out so she does not have to deal with it? From now on, no more!
Bats, you are right about everything you said. It is terribly unfair of her to ask me to not CD when it hurts me so, and it is also unfair of her not to accept some unhappiness to keep the marriage going. You are also right in that it is really just a matter of when I decide I do not want to put up with this unfairness anymore. However, for a variety of reasons, kids, money, her health, my pride, etc, I am unwilling to dump our marriage in the trash right now. This will probably change in the future, heck, it changes day to day. There are times that if she threatens divorce I would say "Go for it, heres the phone book, find a lawyer", and others when I would walk through fire to keep the marriage together. She has just received some bad news from the doctor so we need to see where things go with that. When I heard the news, I felt bad for her and for me, I felt a bit trapped. I think I will start seeing my therapist again, even though I felt she was pushing divorce a bit hard, maybe she was right. Thanks for your comments, and for everyone here....Stephanie
ultimations seem to be about control. Control is about fear. Fear about the unknown, fear about one self, fear about change, just about fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie-L
Sometimes one person or both have to look at the fear and face it. Sometimes it needs to be one person's call.
Yes I was afraid of my husband being TG. I was more afraid of myself and who I was or was not. When I faced who I was and am I made the call.
That call was utterly painful. We were married 25 years. Seven children and a home. And I made the decison to end that marriage. I had tried for years to *control* this man. While I was, in many ways, out of control.
When I finally handed it over and realized I was never in control of who s/he was and is, I realized, so clearly, that he and I should not be married to each other. He and I should be free to be happy. With ourselves and in the world.
He could not be happy living MY life. I could not be happy thinking I was controling him and not being honest with who I was/am.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. And love. We were terifically good parents together. We somehow managed to pass along some good values and suggestions to our children. We worked very hard at this relationship one calls marriage. We worked very hard.
He stuck with *us* through the illnesses and the craziness. I tried to stick with the TG. And yes, we did love one another. And shit, we made some beautiful babies!
But it was time. S/he and I really do deserve happiness and love and peace.
Ultimatums can cost too much. Being honest can cost too. Honesty, true honesty, bring self respect.. Ultimatums certainly do not. With self respect, about who you are, a woman, man, TG/CD/TS. FtM, FtM, gay, bi, lesbian, black or white, comes happiness.
And each of us deserves to be happy.
Happy Valentine's Day.
Louise.
I have experienced both a supportive spouse, and the "don't ask-don't tell" relationship. In the later case when the Ultimatum came and I refused to give up my "alter-ego"/hobby I was outed to all my friends and family during a bitter and nasty divorce. I basically walked away from my home with my automobile, my waredrobe and what little self-respect I had left to muster. I lost friends I had for decades and have extended family members who I doubt I'll ever speak with again. After five years I have still not recovered financially or professionally nor do I yet have a home of my own again. These things have been difficult and painful. But I was true to myself, and my true friends and family, though small in number they may be have accepted Stacye as a part of me. Maybe a somewhat odd part, but still a part of me.
Now after all that, I find myself in a situation where I have no interest in dressing at all. I have not dressed for some 7 months now. Will I ever dress again? Probably. Could I stop for good? I don't know, I stopped drinking and using drugs 17 years ago and I've managed to make it through that one day at a time. So, I choose to take not dressing the same way-I have no desire or intention of dressing today. That's all I know-it's all I need to know. Whatever happens in the future will happen Insh'allah. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
Just one persons opinion.
marcie,(and all of my sisters on here)
if someone had put a gun to my head and forced me to cross dress, then yes i could stop with out a second thought. however, no one put a gun to my head and forced me into this, i was born this way. choosing to cross dress for me is like choosing to breathe, its something that is ingrained in me and many others. For you to come on here and make a statement like that hits close to home because its the very thing my now ex-wife said to me before she decided that a child molester was a better choice than me. Fortunately for me, i have found a woman who is completely understanding and supportive, many others haven't found such a person and have also heard similar comments from those they love and who supposedly loved them. If you haven't lived through what we have then there is no way you could understand why this is not a choice but rather a way of life for a majority of us. and before you say that i'm not a "strong enough" person to admit to a problem , or to try and kick a habit, keep in mind i have lived through the hell of war first hand and seen things that no human should and had very few mental side effects from the experience, which takes a strong character in anyone.
Typical controversial thread. Lots of hair-splitting going on. And you know, ol' Marla here hates split ends. But one of the topics of discussion going on here is all about whether we could stop, given the ultimatum.
So....could I stop? Sure, given the mental discipline. There have been people in recorded history that have stared at the sun long enough to blind themselves forever. I'll bet they weren't real happy about that, either. So could I quit? Yeah, and I'd not be real happy about it. In fact, I'd probably grow very resentful towards my wife over it. That is something I don't want in my marriage. I love my wife. I don't want to live the rest of my life without her, either. Any spouse throwing out such an ultimatum probably doesn't realize that to do so would destroy her marriage. I don't want that to happen to mine.
Like I said back when this thread was young, I've been doing this so long, I don't know how not to. So I'm not likely to stop.
It has never worked in my experience. purged in front of the SO to prove my commitment. I was hiding stuff in drawers by the next month. Carol
I guess you can stop breathing if you want to bad enough. It depends on where your priorities lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcieM
For most of us, cross-dressing is part of 'who' we are, not just something we choose to do.
I'm coming in a bit late on the thread but my view is simple....I have never given anyone an ultimatum nor have I ever given in to an ultimatum. If anything is to a point of an ultimatum then it's not worth the sacrifice.
That's what I meant. CDing is part of who we are. We can no more deny the existence of it (and be honest with ourselves) than we can deny the existence of our skin.Quote:
Originally Posted by msginaadoll
The outcome of this; you might be able to not crossdress for years at a time. But eventually, at some point, you will crossdress no matter how hard you fight it. My main reason for believing this aspect of it (as opposed to the biological aspect) is that I know of no CDer, or of any CDer who knows of any CDer, who has ever successfully stopped dressing and remained so.
For my own part, after my second to last purge (the last was to avoid discovery by my then just-beginning girlfriend now wife...wanted to tell her on my own terms, and did), I stopped dressing for about two years. I thought I was done with it. In fact, I was sure of it. Then one day I bought a pair of pantyhose, even though I was actively fighting it in my brain. When I put them on, the inner emotional explosion was astonishingly deep. Words fail me to describe the feelings I had. I knew from that moment on that I'd never again attempt to stop crossdressing.
Fast forward about 15 years...my wife did a 180 in support of my crossdressing. She had been somewhat supportive, then flipped (due in large part to my actions...pink fog stuff), and though no ultimatum was given a warning was sounded; if I didn't stop, she might lose attraction for me. So, I quietly packed up all my femme stuff. She was mad; thought I was purging. I told her I wasn't purging, but it was going out of her sight. In my own mind, I knew I'd continue crossdressing, but I would do so without her involved in any way. I was not going to cut off a portion of me again, and try to suppress crossdressing when I actively knew it would be harmful for me to do so. I just decided not to do so with her involved anymore. Six months later, after many conversations, things slowly turned back around again. My wife is now 100% supportive, and even more supportive than before and swears there will never be a 180 again.
"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings, always darker, emptier, and simpler. I don't care if they're fake or real, I just thank them for showing up at all. I have black periods. Who does not? But they are part of me; they are not a part of illness, but a part of my being. What am I saying? I have the courage to have them. Four o' clock in the morning. This sucks." - Alkaline Trio - Warbrain (First line courtesy of Nietzsche)Quote:
Originally Posted by msginaadoll
First off, I absolutely love that song, if you're into rock and don't know Alkaline Trio, look it up on YouTube. But that said, I highlighted the particularly relevant part, though really it all is relevant, because I think that's a place we'e all been.
I am blessed with a wonderful wife that accepts, understands and helps me. If given an ultimatum, I'm not sure what I would do especially after she accepted it. I think at the very least your spouse needs to give you a good explination as to why the ultimatum. Loyality to your spouse is the most important thing. Crossdresing doesn't cross that line IMO. My wife would certainly rather see me dressed as a women then going out with one.
Been there before, as I can see it now from a different light she used that as an excuse to end the marriage as she had found someone else to be with.
I had tried my best to quit but the stress of the fact that her mother lived with us was to much to bear.
They would go shopping on Saturday's or Sunday or both days and leave me at the house. At the time my wife had some older dresses that she didn't wear but I thought they looked just fine, I would go and buy my own undergarments, I had found some heels that my wife was going to throw out and they fit me fine. One thing lead to another and soon I had a nice collection of woman's attire and was able to keep it in complete view of my wife's things. As for makeup and perfume I would just use my wifes.
I had started to work a lot of overtime to try my best not to dressed as a woman but that didn't help either it only made things worse for my married life.
Sixteen hours plus driving time of 1-1/2 hours of working everyday, this only lead to my wife staying out later everyday. After about three months she agree to meet at a park where she gave me divorced papers as she had then for about a month as she thought I would do something to abuse her. Told her she really never knew me if she thought that would happen.
I moved out got a place of my own woman's attire of my own and have wonder every now and then how she is doing.
I still dress as a woman, have gained some weight that I need to remove and hope that will happen this year as I want to start exercising more, I would like to get the dress size I was a year after my divorce, which would be six dress sizes smaller than I am now.
Crossdressing is an important part of my life. just as for most women who don slacks, sweat shirt and/or flannel shirts are for them or women who are tom-boys.
Those are three different situations you describe - a wife, a girlfriend, other family members. My response to each is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by LA CINDY LOVE
With the wife, it should never come to that point: If you kept it hidden from her and she discovered in the middle of the relationship, she has every right to be upset about discovering she married into something she was not prepared for. The burden is on you to either find a compromise you can both live with, try to give it up cold turkey because she is more important to you than the dressing, or say goodbye if the dressing is more important than the wife. If she knew going into the relationship and then decided later that she could not put up with it any more... that's going to be painful no matter what the outcome. In that case, she has to be the one to make the next move - either work out a compromise, or start packing. (in general, anyone who enters into a lifetime commitment believing they can change or "fix" any perceived flaws in the other is doomed to disappointment)
With a girlfriend who has not yet solidified the commitment, you have more flexibility because there are no ugly loose ends to deal with as you would have with a divorce. Both of you have to decide if your relationship is more important than either dressing or not dressing. I keep harping on compromise, because that's what works best for me in conflicts, but your mileage may vary.
Since I'm strictly in the closet (apart from the people who have to live with me - wife and kids) I can't really speak with any authority on the subject of outside relatives. I guess it would depend on how close I am to those people. More distant or rarely-seen relatives would probably get their wish and stop seeing me; for immediate family I'd certainly stop dressing *around them* if it makes them uncomfortable, but what I do in the privacy of my own home isn't their business. I suppose if, say, my mother or a brother or sister demanded that I give it up entirely or stop seeing them, I'd try to have a heart-to-heart talk about how it's a part of me that I can't make go away any more than I can stop breathing; if that's not good enough for them it would be a tearful farewell and a constant hope that they will eventually accept me for who I am.
ralph
Hey people - I faced that ultimatum now and quit CDing because deep down it's utrabad voodoo crap that does bad things to your life. But I kept my clothes - a gigantic colection of stuff... in hopes it will fit a beautiful woman my size 4 to 6 [should be easy to find]!
In response to your question "Why is it that they feel that it is so easy to stop?" - I would suggest it is quite simply because most women have no idea of how it feesl to be a transgendered man. There is also a tremendous amount of peer pressure for both men and women to not attempt to cross the gender divide. The extent of the concern that imen feel about this issue is indicated in the number of views of this and similar posts to the forum. While some women may be accepting, even then it may be just a begrudging acceptance with lots of terms and conditions. There is nothing wrong with optimism but it has to be tempered with realism.
I'm curious to see where you will be five years from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KateSpade83
+1! Unfortunately, that's a very unrealistic statement, and Julie's right, you're pretty much doomed to come crashing back to the reality that you're just in denial of this. But good luck with that! :straightface:Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieC
{shudder} Oh Stacye, that's exactly the nightmare scenario that kept me awake at night when my marriage went through a rough spot. DW never once brought up the dressing, but over other issues (both of us are stubborn control freaks) she threatened divorce a few times. Losing custody is already a foregone conclusion for the father, but I just knew she would prove that I was a "pervert" and unfit to ever see my children again. And then it would be all out in the open, and there goes my life, my family, my job, my friends...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacye Rose
Fortunately we got over it with a lot of counseling at church and we're both the stronger for it, but it could have easily turned out for me as it did for you. I thank God every day that I didn't have to find out how much worse it could have been... I'm sure sorry to hear how hard it was for you.
ralph
I feel for you Sister ! I was faced with that in 1995 - I tried to honor my spouse's wishes - it lasted for several years - then it came back with an absolute vengence - we all know that we can not and will not ever quit crossdressing, no matter what we promise and no matter how many times we purge - keep this in mind - I didn't and now my spouse and I are on the verge of divorce
Your sister,
JoAnne Wheeler
Eeep! That's a terrible way for things to go down. Me? I'd sue for slander or defamation. I know that they typically have to show that something said was false, but I'm sure that you could argue that "pervert" is indeed a false accusation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph
TSSSS...
someone give me an oldtomato and I would tell like this -
Keep aggrivating me about it and I will get really stupid with it, like dressing as John Goodman in drag!
If someone really wanted to leave my life cause of my dressing, I would tell them I will personally hold the door for them.
I am me, and one has 2 choices -
take it, or
leave it.