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As someone who has ties to both groups...Quote:
Originally Posted by Acadeca
Yes, both are not "normal", but I see "normal" as a horribly negative term.
Ie... "We don't like you, you're, ugh, normal. Go away before you get "normie" all over us!" :evilbegon
Quote:
Originally Posted by meri
One could say that you, whilst in your male persona, were damaged or traumatized... thus you flee from your male persona and seek a female one.
Different take, no? Some people still think gays need therapy.
I'm neither an adult baby nor a CD, but this post makes me angry as well. There's no real reasoning here, just "My lifestyle is normal, but anyone with your lifestyle needs therapy."Quote:
Originally Posted by meri
"The normal course for all species is to grow-up to adulthood and leave the trappings of baby-hood behind." Right. And the normal thing for men to do is to do anything possible to look like a woman?
What is the fetish of AB's? CDer's have been known to "pretend" they are women when they have sex. How does an AB fetish operate?
Being a non-fetishist AB.... I don't have first hand knowledge here.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaM
From what I've seen, being an adult dressed as a baby gets some people off. I do know this does NOT involve actual children, only consenting adults playing the part.
Although, I must say, some people look cute all babied up. Some, not all.
Of course, cute and sexy are two different things.
Hello Everyone,
I'm also from the DD website, so firstly, to my fellow DD'ers, please remember this isn't our house so please, please be respectful. No one has violated this yet, but we wouldn't appreciate it on our site.
For the CD'ers, DD is a multi threaded site. We have adult babies, adult kids, diaper lovers. Throw in gay, straight, transgendered, any age, any sex and you have a true melting pot. We can't even agree to disagree at times. So there are many different ways we could define what adult babies mean for us.
Being a strict diaper lover myself, I can't explain AB myself. However, if you were to come over to our house and suggest we needed counseling wouldn't go over very well. :D However, for someone to sit in a bar in a diaper and shirt doesn't really stand for our values in the DD community and I hope you don't hold this as the "candlestick" for the AB/DL community.
Sincerely,
Opie
Hello, another diapered visitor ;)
First let me say I appreciate the sentiment of tolerance many of you seem to have. It is far more common for us to be ostracized than even grudgingly accepted. Thank you to those that can be open minded enough to leave each to their own.
In this discussion a significant portion of the ABDL crowd hasn't been talked about, which is the DLs (Diaper Lover). We are the ones that don't really care for he trappings of being a baby (either the "props" or acting like one). Conversely, there are ABs that only wear diapers because that is a part of the role and not for the diapers themselves.
Based on her description, I suspect the muse for this thread is probably a DL rather than an AB.
Like any other "fetish" group, it varies from person to person. There are even some (mostly ABs in my experience, though there are some DLs too) that do not sexualize them at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaM
For me, there are two aspect to the sexual side. For myself, it is all about the tactile feel. For the rare occasions my wife will wear one for me, it is the same (to me) as seeing her in any other "sexy" outfit.
At the same time, I can be just as happy wearing one for a weekend without seeking sexual stimulation.
I don't really have an explanation for it and finally have stopped trying to find one. As long as it makes me happy and isn't hurting anyone else (I am a firm opponent of showing off in public and thereby forcing it on other people), what does it matter?
Interesting. As long as it doesn't involve children, as you said, I don't really have a problem with it. Course, if you were to "pretend" you were a child having sex, I couldn't dig that. To me, that would be kind of a reverse pedo-thing. Hmmmm....
How do you know? Do you have any professional qualifications (psychiatry) in this regard?Quote:
Originally Posted by meri
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Amanda, our community is very judicious about that. It simply is not condoned for any discussion about involving children in this lifestyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaM
For the most part on what's represented, most of the ABs are non-sexual in that stage. They like the tenderness and caring and worry free that is absent from adult life. Some of them have "Mommys" and "Daddy's". It all goes back to that whatever makes you happy, you know?
Of course, we're large, so we have more than a fair share of people who are way off the line. :D
And thats one of the biggest misconception's about AB's, That it is a sick child style fetish. I have before read thru many AB"s site's when i was with my ex cause i hate child pornogrhy and thing's to that degree,I feel them people need to be shot "off topic my bad,just get's my neck up" There is never a child involved. All party's are consinting adult's. And I refuse to judge my fellow man as anything but that. Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone. Before you make a rash desion on what's tolarable and whats not people should do a little research. Far be it for a cd to judge a ab/dl or anyone eles in the world. If we could set aside petty diffrences like this the would be a much nicer place to live. :2c:
Funny how we judge people even if they are straight as an arrow and some can find "queer" things about most others. Queer meaning different from the norm, whatever that is. There are people out there that look at the TG community as scarey people, who don't really understand us at all and are just plain ignorant (no pun intended, but they never researched what we're all about, and don't care to), they just label us whatever comes to their small minds. They think of us as some sort of sex deviates, just like they do same sex marriages when in reality the sex act itself is but a small part of life compared to other responsibility's in whole complete relationships, they just think of the sex act, not the love one has for the other or each other.
And I'm sure the same applies in our own community (TG) when it's ok for a straight couple male (crossdresser) and a gg wife or a male (crossdresser) and a gg girlfriend may look at 2 male's who are both male to female crossdressers in a relationship/marriage replusive, but the male (crossdresser) who is married to a gg wife is ok, nothing wrong with that though???????? So there is this double standard even in our own community.
In reality we in our community are at the bottom of the social ladder. Even the gay community, some not all, don't accept us. The straight community say at least a gay individual knows what they want, but the tg community don't know what they want to be, half male, half female. They really don't understand that at least I didn't just wake up one day and decide to just play female for awhile. They fail to realize that inside I was a girl in a man's body and they can't possibly understand that, they don't have to go through that war within themselves such as some of us have. LOL I do love my female side so much more than my male and always have.
Hope I haven't confused anybody! Live your lives to the fullest and take each day and unwrap it like a precious gift. Always remember we're just visiting here, just passing through in our journey through life. Hugs, Elle
Excuse me? If I were to "prance" I'd break my ankle. Then I'd be down and in diapers myself and maybe learning how to more fully appreciate another view of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by trannie T
[SIZE="3"]The only thing that bothers me when people say that you must be "more tolerant," is that it may lead to too much acceptance. No one likes to hear it but it is the old "slippery slope" arguement. The more you accept and tolerate, the more you lose your sense of good & bad, right & wrong.
Way too many times, I've heard people say "It's wrong for me but if they want to do it..." Why is something wrong for you and not for someone else? I don't like situational ethics. If something is right, it's right. If it's wrong, it's wrong.
So just be careful that you don't lose your sense of right and wrong because you are all accepting.
Lacy PJs[/SIZE]
So "just enough" is accepting cross dressing, while accepting the adult baby lifestyle is "too much acceptance?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacy PJs
being on both DD ( great site btw) and here ( also good but different reasons) p can say for a fact that the people over there aare ultimately slightly more accepting than that of the group here... but being that said, there are always the bad eggs from both that end up on jerry springer that give all of us bad names regardless of what we all enjoy... hell there isnt anything someone prude enough couldnt find offensive...
i can say that the subject matter is a bit more indepth and real over on DD but i think its diversity has alot to do with it.. and within the ABDL genre there is more room for imagination, stories and roll play adventures which draw depth out of people versus asking what collor my panties are today.. maybe its an age demographic thing but the abdl community seems younger as well,
each place has its own niche and as for situational exceptance i beg to differ...
if you were fully "normal" and felt CDing or ddiapers was wrong, but i myself was a transitioning diagnosed and intersexed trans sexual who had a medical abnormality that caused me to be incontinent and dress as my pre chosen choice of gender i wanted to pass as why wouldnt the statment "its wrong for be but ok for you" not apply....
lacy pj's that statment makes you no better than a dousch that calls a cross dresser a fag because they dress different... its rude and inconsiderate... and biggoted..
there are some of us here that have medical reasons for doing what we do, andthe fact we choose to embrace our problems and turn them positive and for our bennifit should not be forgotten... i for one have had my back broken 2 times and my neck once... the fact that my only issue is occational OAB and slight to severe pain is concidered a godsend... i really shouldnt be even able to walk or function for that matter.. neck was broken at c4 c5 and c6 so the fact i can strut around in 6" heels and function day to day with a minor inconvienence of needing a diaper or other absorbant product from time to time to manage a problem shouldnt be intollerated... the fact i get piece of mind and stress relief through the useage of said products is no different than the reasons i dress...its a comfort thing.. i feel all cute and sexy dressed can feel like im a rich princess or a sexy diva and get away from the fact i am a struggling small business owner verging on loosing everything i own if winter is even a day to long.. with a large sum of medical bills due to work related injerys compounded by biological/developmental problems that effect me as a whole on average about 10 days a month...
a diaper and nothing else than an alternative form of underware.. regardless of the reasoning behind it.. same as the panties you are wearing, or the thong i am, or the boxers i will be stuck wearing tomarrow..
Firstly a quick welcome to those who have decided to visit from the DD website
I am sorry but to me being tolerant means accepting others provided they are not hurting anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacy PJs
We as a community are trying to be accepted the the main stream community, yet some of us choose to condemn others
I can understand if someone says its wrong for them for all sorts of reasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lacy PJs
I do not have any interest in the Adult Baby community but I do understand they have a need the same as crossdressers have a need.
Your snense of right and wrong need not be diminished by tolerance
I've been fallowing this post since it first came up. I have been dressing for a number of years and was hooked on wearing panties for a long time. Then I had some neck injuries years ago. I had a fusion on c5, c6 & c7. The nerve damage along with the meds caused some issues with bladder control especially at night. After pissing in the bed a couple times and wetting myself once or twice I started wearing pads during the day and diapers at night. The first time I woke with a warm wet diaper I was really aroused. I gradually regained most of my control but I was hooked on the feeling and convenience of diapers, I guess I’m what is referred to as a DL [diaper lover]. Now I often wear when I'm out for a long time and always when I dress. It eliminates the problem of deciding which rest room to use when I'm dressed. It's nice when you always have a place to go! I don't flaunt the diaper but if you ever get a peak up my skirt you won't see regular panties. Like dressing, I feel it's harmless. If you wonder what it's like try one sometime, you might get hooked like I did
Bravo diapersissy, bravo!:love:
What is DD?
ABDL = Adult Baby/Diaper Lover?
DD is the Daily Diaper site
Yes to the second question
Thanks Jenni! :)
Wow, that's a huge site. I noticed pics of CDs there too. This does not startle me, since infantilism is also a form of subordination? And the idea of being submissive is certainly not uncommon in the TG community .. in fact I would guess it is pretty much the norm.
When I first became aware of CDing, my knowledge was superficial and I did believe it was a form of fantasy play. My attitude changed as I got to know my SO and other members of this community. Still, I believed other forms of character expression (within the BDSM community at large) to be fantasy play as well. Now I see this is not necessarily true. Or, as with every other community, the degree of self-identification vs. role play varies from member to member.
I wish I had the ability to let go and allow myself to even discover, let alone express some of my basic instincts and desires. I do not know what I would discover. But if I could do this it would be the embodiment of self-acceptance. And I'm sure I would be better able to resolve some issues in my life. I admire people who can do this.
It is understandable that a society needs a certain structure in order to function. There are rules for our survival, such as moving beyond the childhood stage to adulthood in order to be a responsible and productive member of society, or staying within our genders to ensure the propagation of our species. It makes sense to me why many people instinctually fear those who do not appear to conform to these rules. And we have been indoctrinated to not be tolerant of people who appear to live outside the 'norms'. This is where I believe homo/transphobia comes from for example. Or if we choose to break a norm for ourselves, we are not tolerant of others who break different norms. So we've fashioned a society where a degree of decorum must be followed, although there is a tolerance for what people choose to do behind closed doors, as long as it is not illegal. But there is a difference between self-expression and not being a productive member of society. I believe that in our culture especially since the 60s, social norms are slowly widening enough to accept this as long as we believe that a certain personal expression does not fundamentally threaten the fabric of our society.
I hope that acceptance of someone's need to step beyond birth gender is increasing. I don't know if we'll get to a point where we also accept someone's need to express an inner child. Maybe.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I believe there is a correlation between CDing and infantilism. They are both valid forms of self-expression.
There's more then just that site, and they're equally as big as well :X. As for submissive, yea I think it is a large part of it, but not in the way most people think of. As an ab, I want to be told what to do at certain times, and I want the "caregiver" to make decisions on when to goto bed, whats for dinner etc etc. But to some extent that caregiver is also submissive to the ab, in terms of changing nappies, making sure they feel safe and looked after, preparing/feeding food. It's a little of both, but at the end of the day the caregiver is the one with the power, its just different from the tradition Dom Sub partnership people think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I think fantasy/roleplay is a large part of both these "kinks" due to the simple fact that for the most part we can't get away with being what we want to be when we're in that mind set, some cross dressers maybe able to pass, but all abs will find a hard time passing as a 2 yr old :P. But this follows on from the self identification part, part of me is truly a little boy, and I need to let that part out at times, and I can only let that out by roleplaying really. I'm sure its just the same with most cds (correct me if I'm wrong :P) part of you is very much a female, to what ever degree that maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
As for the second paragraph, I think that's the same for alot of people, they're afraid of what they'll find out about themselves. Same with me.... don't really want to go too far down the road of kinkyness, here is just about right :P
I think the acceptance of peoples inner child is already happening, and its very subversive. From computer games being played mostly by the 18-30 age group, the styles of some PJ's for women, the fact that people are leaving home at a later age, even down to kingsizing chocolate bars, so they're more in tune with the size difference you felt when you where younger. Ok so they're not sat wearing a nappy and sucking on a paci, but still....Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
And I like to think that society as a whole is getting more and more accepting as we move on. (then I read something like that story from Uganda and despair :/)
Lacypj, I think if you stick to certain morale stances your sense of good and bad stay intact. All these different kinks and fetishes and what not.... as long as its between consenting adults, and isn't causing any harm then I don't see and issue. I may not want to hear about them all, but I'm not going to stop someone from having fun and feeling more at home with themselves.
AmandaM: I can understand where you're coming from with the "Reverse pedophile" angle. Its hard to describe, but I think the turn on comes from the above mentioned powerplay, plus for lots of us the diapers themselves. Basically its very hard to roleplay a 2 year old whilst actively having sex. Sadly due to the nature of our fetish links to pedophiles is a given, and this makes most abdls slightly more militant towards them then the average person. We like the innocence, the niceness, the closeness, and happiness that infant hood allows, pedo's seek to destroy that.
Sorry for another mammoth post :X
Loopy.
I've never gotten the impression that being submissive is the norm in the TG community.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
One of the threads roughly 6 or 8 weeks ago did list some elements someone had observed to be common to TS children, and favouring pink and identification strongly with the Disney princesses was said to be particularly strong... that could, I suppose, be interpreted as hyper-feminism and since submissiveness is (or was) a part of traditional feminine behaviour in a number of cultures, one could hypothesize that the children would tend to be submissive. On the other hand, the TS children being discussed were those who were willing to assert their TS identity in the face of the social norms, which is an indication of a pretty strong sense of individual identity: the submissive TS child would submit to the prevailing social morals and largely bury their TS identity, thus taking them outside of the observation of the person who put together the aforementioned list... We must thus conclude that that list is useless in predicting whether or not any particular TS child will be submissive.
Personally, I identify as TG (gender-fluid non-polarized... some might use the term "androgynous"), but some TS's have indicated that they believe I'm TS. I am not submissive; I've stuck out since at least grade 1, and I never learned how to conform, nor tried to learn to conform. I was involved with a woman who turned out to be fairly controlling; I moved out within 3 months, because I would not be controlled.
But there is a difference between "submissive" and "anti-social"; I have put a lot of effort in working for "the greater good", and have done so knowing that doing so sets me apart from the majority of the society I am supporting, because the majority of society believes in "looking out for #1", in trading personal conscience for money. "The Devil wears Prada" so to speak.
That wacko woman who worked for NASA had a special diaper that lasted a looong time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
If you do an advanced title search using the key term 'submissive' you will see many threads that prove otherwise. I believe there is even a poll. And these are only the threads with the term in the title. I can't possibly list all the other instances, but I've often read members post they felt submissive if not in guy mode, then certainly when dressed. It is very common among CDs, which I sense form the majority of the membership here.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandra-leigh
Yes, I did say "TG community" earlier. Sorry it is a habit I've cultivated when referring to the general membership so as to not make anyone feel excluded. But in this particular post, my comments were intended for CDs. I agree that TS children are not submissive. And my impression of TS adults is their female identity has nothing to do with feeling submissive. They don't define it that way since they are women. Most women I know don't consider themselves submissive either.
Please bear in mind that I made a generalization where I believe, based on what I've read, that the majority of CDs will say they feel submissive when dressed. There will certainly be others such as yourself who do not feel this way.
I think that what it boils down to in society is that men just don't give a damn and that is why it is so easy for women to crossdress without little or no remark. Women are merely implementing the style into their wardrobe, men on the other hand when dressed as a woman aren't trying to implement what they have on into their wardrobe; they are trying to be that which they are not or at least in the view of society.
Skirts have always been worn by men and dresses by women in history, but as time has passed the wardrobe for men has changed drastically because of the consideration of formal presentation and mannerisms that are supposedly interactive with each sex. The same view for any person with any type of fetish still exists as a society we expect the men to indulge in our masculinity and females to indulge in their femininity instead of indulging ourselves in what society deems childish or perverted fantasies. Because we are not acting in the behaviors that society deems appropriate we are immediately set aside as freaks of nature with some kind of mental or pshychological disorder.
We don't have to like eachother, as this diaper guy is on the same boat we are. It is still curteous and well mannered to show respect to those who are different than us. This is why so many of us are still in the closet because we are worried about what society will think and react to what they deem inappropriate behavior. There are many things we all could learn from this diaper guy and the bravery it takes to wear just a diaper and tshirt out, and the kind of man he truly is because of the courage he took to even step out of the door just wearing a diaper and tshirt.
We all have our own individual belief systems as well as lifestyles in which we live by. We all have fetishes even though some would not admit. If anyone has watched the show "Monk" you would realize that just because he has an obsession with perfection that he is still a highly valued member of society. Yet if the president started crossdressing he would most likely be impeached because of
moral standards in which has been set by the public eye. Some of us would vote for his impeachment and some would not. Just like the california ammendment to allow gay marriage. Some of us voted for it and some against it and it all comes down to our beliefs and lifestyles in which we live. If we let this get in the way of our community here then it would only break down this community in which we have worked so dilligently to build and all the friendships that we have forged would only go down the drain. We are all individuals here traveling on the same path, but in reality we are on seperate paths that are similar in nature, but surely different since we are not all the same and live by different standards than the guy next door.
Sorry for the very long vent, but I felt I had to.