Is there a connection..crossdressing and being submissive?

When i cross-dress, i don't change any part of my personality. I only change how I sit and how I walk, and of course the voice. All of little quirks and kinks, and what not are manifested over. Depending on my mood, I'm either submissive or dominant.

My SO knows about my cross-dressing, (that was a great story btw)so when we do our thing. It's either when I'm male or female, doesn't matter. In our out of bed, it's an equality thing. Even in bed, it depends on my mood, dominant with her and submissive with her no matter the "mode" I'm in.

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Brandy from the very, very little I know about the lifestyle, I do understand (I think) that at the end of the day the sub "has the upper-hand" so to speak, in any good sub/DOM relationship, especially if it does involve physical correction/pleasure in that safe words/signals are used between the DOM/sub and once spoken/or signaled the play ends immediately or have I got that very very wrong ?

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Sheila, thanks for asking. I'm not sure the sub has the upper hand. In fact as hard as it may be to understand, a the end of the day, both my Dominant and I are very equal in the sense that we share and care deeply for each other. She gives me dominance that I want and need. I give her the power over me that she wants and needs.
There is a time for physical play with various things like crops, canes, paddles or floggers. Sometimes, maybe even bondage. It is what I as a submissive enjoys and she as a dominant enjoys by seeing my total trust and submission to her. We both get something equal out of it. It's my way of expressing total trust in her and showing her how much I love her to allow my total physical submission to her.

Then there is the very real punishment should I displease her in some way. It is not always physical, but can be. And when it is, i fear it in some ways since I am not into pain. Yet, with her, something comes over me and allows me to take that physical punishment and feel like I made up for the misdeed that caused her the need to punish me. It's like the pain does not even bother me since it is a way of giving and then being totally forgiven and the misdeed is forgotten. Again a way to show my respect, trust and love for her. Such a mixed bag of emotions. That punishment is always with a cane. OUCH! But punishment is not supposed to be fun or even erotic. Again, very different from play.
Safe words are only used in play, not in real punishment. A good dominant never punishes her submissive while upset or mad. She will wait until she is calm so as not to be to hard on the submissive and hurt him beyond tolerance.
Like every marriage, no two D/s relationships are the same. Everything is agreed upon in advance including protocols, rituals and the way we address each other. Again, I am her submissive in either male or fem mode. The manner of dress makes no difference. It is not just a game with us. No, she does not wear leather, boots and chains all the time. In fact that is very rare. She dresses and acts like any other loving wife/partner would. I am free to call her Honey, sweetheart or even her name. But when she gives me an order, I had better say "Yes Ma'am" or "yes M'lady"

I hope that helps you understand a little more.

Thanks Brandy & yes it was/is very much like I understood the D/s relationship to work mainly, although I had forgotten that it is not always a playtime for alll couples, but can be a way of life (thanks for the reminder)

You reminded me one extremely important aspect of the D/s relationship, that of "total Trust", something I think some people find hard to grasp/understand or even accept that one would, "allow/desire" ...... punishment (be it, physical/verbal/chore doing/sexual/mental)..... from/impose on, the one they love

Questions ? ..........

1)would/could the Dom demand that the sub refrain from dressing as a punishment & would that be seen by Subs as acceptable ....... (I would **think** in a loving relationship it could be used as a short term/loving punishment, but has the possibility for a D/S relationship to be badly misused by the Dom, if they suddenly hates the dressing and so could use it to her advantage, especially if as for you and your sweetie it is a lifestyle and not playtime as such ........ and yes, I think I am aware that D/s is not about power play per-se, but I would think the potential is there for abuse in certain situations)

As we are aware many CDERs will **Push Boundaries** on a regular basis, if so, could CDing be used to
2) get ones own way with CDing desires, knowing full well that chastisement of some form would be the outcome, if/when discovered, so thereby heightening the pleasure of doing boundary pushing ???

3)Could the D/s lifestyle, in your opinion ... (and anybody else's who cares to chip in) .... be/is being used in a controlling manner by SO's who hate CDing.... (but have a willing sub (perhaps albeit unknowingly))......... is that perhaps why some stay with unaccepting SO's, they in actuality buy into the D/s lifestyle again maybe unaware themselves that they in actuality gain some pleasure from the disapproval knowing that there will be repercussions from CDing.

Maybe I am doing the over thinking bit in the last question (sometimes I do that :doh: ......... I have in the past been involved marginally in the D/s lifestyle (for a very brief period/way to long period) in the past and as the sub, I know hard to believe this gobby biatch as a sub :devil::devil:, but it was done as a gesture of love to my partner at the time, who was into the lifestyle (or so i thought), while I hated every moment of it, eventually I called a halt and said no more, but having researched a little I soon realised he was more into sadism and was not a true Dom as I understood a Dom to be in a D/s lifestyle :straightface::Angry3::Angry3:


Oooopsssss I will shut up now as I just realise,d I have turned a few points into an in depth under the microscope Q & A session :doh:

Hi.
I spos im on the outer in most ways here , I can see what is being said tho im not so sure as it effects me being a woman,
so my ? is ( im a bit nieve here,)

What roll does a woman play in this , I see your talking as a man ,
im not completly wired that way so i lack some things a male has in this regard ,I dont relate to or with men. hence my ?

Fact is im struggling with the ? ,

Of my self as a person for my part there is no male or female .you allready know what i am,
so if it comes down to dom or sub its no to both,
yet in family life & thats from age 10 on i had to do many things most kids would not have done, health reasons with in the family , & that meant i had to take over both the male & female roll & have done since then ,
Im not a wimp just very strong in holding things together though out my life, & our lifes, family,
That does not say i dont go down, i do & if you like time out,

I know theres more to it than the main ? , so Psychologically ,& Emotionally wise, that gets in to harder ?? s ,
ill leave that one.

...noeleena...

Sheila. I appreciate your questions and will try to give my opinions and response from my personal experience and understanding.

1) Yes, I guess the Domme (pronounced dom may) could use it to her advantage and incorporate it as either a punishment. Especially if, as you say, she starts to hate the dressing, I have not heard of it, but I am sure it can happen. But at the same time, she could even use the crossdressing as a reward. Yes, she could control the dressing as either a punishment or a reward and use it to her advantage. There was a time my SO did not want me to dress without her either asking me to dress, or my getting her permission first. I know many will not understand this, but I accepted that and it made my desire to dress even more special since it was when I knew she really wanted me in fem mode to serve her. She never refused to allow me to dress when I asked.

2) I am aware that some subs push boundaries. I can honestly say that I never did or do. I definitely would not disrespect her by dressing without her permission just to be chastised to heighten the thrill. I don't get pleasure out of chastisement. My thrill and pleasure comes from doing my very best to obey her wishes, follow the rules, and I can't think of doing anything behind her back. So there would never be any "getting caught" It hurts me deeply to displease her, so I try to never do that. Of course I'm human and will displease her from time to time by forgetting to do something she asked or that she knows I should have done without her even asking.

3) I am sure there are some that push buttons and that some Dommes may use cross dressing in a controlling manner. But from a unaccepting SO. You might be right some sub/CD's might like the repercussions if caught. But in my way of thinking, there is a problem if the sub disobeys or does anything just to get that kind of attention. A good submisisve simply wold not do that any more then a loving Domme would use this to her advantage. I'd say the relationship is in trouble if this was the case.

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience in the lifestyle. To "try" to be a sub for a Dom you cared about had to be hard if your heart was not into it. Amazing what we will do out of love for someone else. As for sadist, I could not deal with that either. On that note, I confess, I don't trust most men that call themselves Doms. Let's just say I don't trust their motives or methods of dominating a woman. I have seen some very loving male Dom/ female sub relationships, but I've seen my share of sexual abuse in those relationships too. OK, I'm sure there are some abusive Domme/sub relationships too. I just have not seen nearly as many.

You are right, there has to be "total trust" Yes, most people don't understand that someone would give over to punishment from someone that they love. I feel it is a cleansing thing. I paid for my disobedience by allowing her to punish me. Again it demonstrates my love, trust and respect for her to allow her to punish me when and if needed. I freely give her control and the power over me. It is not power play, but definitely there is a agreed upon power exchange. I can not be dominated by anyone without my first giving consent and agreed upon boundaries on both sides.

I hope I answered your questions Sheila. Since I differ from what examples you gave, it was not easy. lol

Hi noeleena, If your question is what role does the woman play in this, I can only say that she is the one that has the power over me, her submissive. Of course the genders cold be switched to being a male Dom and a female sub. so it comes down to dominant/submissive and forget or exchange the genders in either the Dom or the sub. So I am not clear exactly what you mean by the "role" the woman plays in this.

Many women get great satisfaction. pleasure out of dominating either a male or female submissive. ( Her roll)
Just as many subs get great satisfaction and pleasure in submitting to a Domme.

Brandy,

Frankly, I think CD's come in as many flavors as the rest of the world & the ability to modify identity by being a CD would seem to imply the ability to modify "normal" behavior. But obviously the term "submissive" is being interpreted in a number of different ways in these responses. To some, it seems like a fundamental threat to their freedom; to others, it's one way of expressing their "feminine side," or the ability to abandon, however temporarily, the "masculine" need to control things. It will be interesting to follow this discussion. Thanks for posting.

Lily

Some women get great pleasure in the power exchange, they may in daily life be on the lower level of a career and many above her telling her what to do etc, she may have to be Submissive in her place of work because of her position, so being a Domme redresses some balance in her life, while on the other hand many males are already in power positions and seek the release that being a sub gives them from having such power over others in daily lives, hence the term power exchange Brandy uses, both Domme and sub gain from the said exchange :)

For many, it is not a sexual thing at all, in fact many Domme's rarely involve themselves with the sub sexually, unless they are in a relationship in the first place, although some do develop into a relationship at a later date.

There are some Domme's who make a very good living out of being a Domme, traveling many thousands of miles to serve their clients (while being very well paid for it), in some cases a Domme will have one or several subs who are collard to her and her alone (or him if it is a male Domme), collaring is a special bond between the Domme and sub and should not be entered into lightly by either and many have a special ceremony called a calling ceremony in which vows very similar to wedding vows are given and exchanged and the Sub is given a Collar to be worn.

It is however a general recommendation that Subs are not collard to anyone within their first year or even of entering into the lifestyle due to the range of emotions that can take place at that time :straightface:

For some one who knows little about it i have a lot to say, hopefully most of it is accurate :)

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Many submissive s wear a "collar" to denote their status and commitment. It can be much like a wedding band, except that only the submissive partner wears one. The traditional collar is a neck band in leather or metal, chosen, designed or even crafted by the dominant partner. Some subs wear a "symbolic collar", often a bracelet or ankle chain, which is more subdued than the traditional collar and can pass in vanilla (non-BDSM) situations. It is not uncommon for a sub to have several collars for special occasions

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A collard sub can be to a professional Domme or a play partner Domme, but while I understand Domme's can have several collard subs, a sub can only be collard to one Domme generally (although I am sure there are exceptions to this rule as in many of lifes situations)

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Originally Posted by lilyrose

Brandy,

Frankly, I think CD's come in as many flavors as the rest of the world & the ability to modify identity by being a CD would seem to imply the ability to modify "normal" behavior. But obviously the term "submissive" is being interpreted in a number of different ways in these responses. To some, it seems like a fundamental threat to their freedom; to others, it's one way of expressing their "feminine side," or the ability to abandon, however temporarily, the "masculine" need to control things. It will be interesting to follow this discussion. Thanks for posting.

Lily

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Lily, you are correct. We do come in many flavors. We all have different likes, dislikes, turn ons, turn offs, levels of tolerance, and so on. You are also correct in saying that the term submissive is interpreted in different ways by many that read this thread. But I want to point out, that my observation is that many Cd's are also submissive, but I don't think it is just a way to express their feminine side. for some it might be. But for me, my submissive side might have been born out of my being a CD, but there is where the connection ends. I don't connect the two as in "can't be one without the other".
I am sure there are more men that are submissive and NOT a CD then there are CD's that are submissive.

Back to the many flavors for a minute... Some may be submissive only as a bedroom game and see it as just something kinky and sexual. Many others see it as much more. Just like some CD's use crossdressing as merely a sexual outlet (fetish) or release, and many of us see crossdressing as something much deeper and part of our emotional makeup.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

WOW Sheila, yo sure do know a lot about it. You are very correct in all that you shared. Yo are very correct. Some Pro Dommes make a very good living from men that have a need to submit and can't find any other outlet for it, or don't want it as a regular everyday part of their life, but need it from time to time. $250.00 an hour is not uncommon. Even some that will pay a Pro to let them come and clean her house either crossdressed or naked. Of course they expect to be punished if the dusting does not pass the white glove test. Most Dommes do not have sex with their clients. Personally I would never have the need to submit to someone so bad that I'd pay a pro! It would ruin the whole exchange for me since the only reason the Domme wants me to submit is for money. Big turn off to me. The same way I feel about hookers and prostitutes. I have no use for them.
As for the collar. There are 4 distinctly different collars. One is called a "play collar" That means the sub is only collared for a short period of time for the purpose of any kind of BDSM play. Next is the "collar of consideration" This is given when a Domme is considering taking on the new submissive but has not committed to him yet.
Then comes the "training collar" This is when the Domme has accepted the submissive and is interested in furthering his training to her ways of doing things to see if the final collar is to be offered to the sub. That collar is called "The collar of ownership"
So they are sort of like an engagement ring and then finally the wedding ring. For many, the collar means as much, if not more then wedding rings. It's a sincere committment just like being married.
For many, there is a collaring ceremony when that final collar is offered by the Domme. Some of these ceremonies can be very elaborate. Others might include only close accepting friends in the lifestyle. They have as much meaning as a wedding ceremony to those that are into the lifestyle. All the same emotions are there. Perhaps even more.
It's rare, but many D/s relationships are stronger then many marriages due to the total openness, trust and communication that living this lifestyle demands.

Again Sheila, you knowledge impresses me!:clap:

I've always been into "equality" in a relationship. My last was with bisexual woman who called herself a submissive. I was in way over my head with that stuff. I don't understand it, to be honest. When married, however, although I'm sure my ex would have loved it if I'd been more dominating...not in a violent or tied-up way, but showing more sexual aggression, she, in fact, had me pussy-whipped (in hindsight). While married, I barely held on to who I really was, but the sex was so great I was more than willing to lose myself. Scary. I will never allow that kind of thing to happen again. I've never had a desire to be sexually submissive with a woman, and being dressed would have no effect on this. However, with a CD or TS (hasn't happened, and will likely stay only a fantasy), I could see being a top or a bottom, but wouldn't be either exclusively.

Hi Brandy,

Sheila is quite right in what she says!!.....I totally adore my SO rr...very much. Our journey together was very special, things literally just fell into place. Most of the time as Becky I need help and guidance.....I'm still learning to be the best i can be......I need my SOs guidance in sensibly achieving that. I'm always conscious of her needs.

I'm a gentle and soft person at heart....... a girl and yes "submissive" but not a door mat.........and I enjoy my life :)

Thanks Sheila.........for the research 10/10 xx

Yes, there is a correlation between Cding and submissiveness, but also masochism in the broadest and narrow sense of the meaning. Cds often delight in tight, uncomfortable clothes or shoes, love putting themselves in potentially humiliating situations, often engage in BDSM, often sleep with men even if they are not really attracted to them etc.

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Originally Posted by Annemarie

Yes, there is a correlation between Cding and submissiveness, but also masochism in the broadest and narrow sense of the meaning. Cds often delight in tight, uncomfortable clothes or shoes, love putting themselves in potentially humiliating situations, often engage in BDSM, often sleep with men even if they are not really attracted to them etc.

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Hi Annemarie, I'm not sure what you mean by masochism in the broadest and narrow sense of the word. I am submissive, but did not consider myself the least bit masochistic. That is until I looked up the definition of masochist, Simply stated...
1) Someone who obtains pleasure from receiving punishment.
2) receiving punishment (physical or psychological)

So OK, I guess I have another label. I always thought it meant someone who likes severe, brutal pain. I admit, I fear pain, do not like pain and only accept it when it is delivered from my SO/Domme. But there are limits to my tolerance level. Well known to my SO. That line is never crossed even if it is for punishment.

Listen, everyone has a mix of all these charcteristics. It's only when you breech a threshold you become "certifiable" I am not into S&M but a little nipple pinch, well timed is welcome. If you want to please your spouse does it make you subissive or opposite; when you accept pleasure are you dominant? Besides, even severe S&M or B&D can bea beautiful thing when the right ones are matched and no unwilling parties are affected! Likewise, there are no pure 100% masculine men or fem women. Mywife doesn't feel sexy in lingere. She is gorgeous in every respect but can't get into the fem sductress, like I would like to. 2 weeks ago I came out to her and suggested I wear the lingerie and you can grab my ears. I think we are in the doorway of a new era, a second horneymoon, after 15 years of marriage. Does anyone know a good babysitter? I am 55 and the longer I live the more I find that EVERYBODY has something to hide AND we all have a lower opinin of ourselves, inside... despite outside persona. SO I sorta feel sory for everyone and try to bolster every persons self worth. We all need compliments to help wit this false sense of guilt. We think we are the only one with dirty little secrets, when if we really knew... we be like "Holly cow, I'm an angel next to this sicko". It's the "Normal people" that REALLY scare me. I thank God that my passion is such a simple a innocent one, not affecting anyone badly... and that my passio don't stray towards child molestaion, drug addiction/gambling or wife beating anger, etc... I thank God those passions that we cannot control are innocent. It's like the Beatles said "Everyones' got something to hide except for me and my monkey" (i.e. the monkey on his back/ addiction? I'm sorta proud to be a CD really.

Im actually part of the D-s Scene as a Dominant. So... there ya go :)

I have heard some terms and really don't understand the DS thing, although I am sure I fit in there somewhere in the middle (pun intended). Cold you elaborate? I must leave for work but will search "D-S" afterwork for any posts. Thanks.

PS: what is a top and bottom (I lack imagination).

Virgin_CD, Very well said. I agree with you 100% Something I read in a a book titled "The Goddess Path", or was it something my SO said she read in one of her books, anyway, it's a simple statement that I wish all religions would adopt and follow. It is: If it harms no one, do as thy will How simple of a statement and so true and can be applied to almost anything.
"It's the "Normal people" that REALLY scare me", is the way I feel too.
BTW, in the book I mentioned, it had a few paragraphs about how the increase of male crossdressing might be the way some men are coming back to the Great Mother Goddess. It went on to say that BC, many men would wear robes that were like that of the Goddess to feel closer to them. It also mentioned that the practice of priests wearing long robes instead of pants, might also have been born out of this ancient practice.

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Originally Posted by Virgin_CD

I have heard some terms and really don't understand the DS thing, although I am sure I fit in there somewhere in the middle (pun intended). Cold you elaborate? I must leave for work but will search "D-S" afterwork for any posts. Thanks.

PS: what is a top and bottom (I lack imagination).

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D/s means Dominant?submissive. Notice the "D" is capitolized and the "s" is in lower case. =D/s
A male is called a Dom and a female dominant is called a Domme (pronounced Dom-may

A top is one that is dominant and a bottom is one that is submissive. However it also can mean someone who is on top and someone who is on bottom in a sexual way only.

I have a definite submissive side whether I am enfem or not. I guess I always have to a certain extent.

The one thing and this may get a few folks upset (I don't mean too). I do believe there is a gentleness and grace that women have that men don't have. Maybe this is the maternal instinct that men lack .... although this is changing.

I grew up where the man was the bread winner, mothers stayed at home and ran the house.

Anyway ... I do feel better as a woman.

hugs - maggie

This is a very complex subject, so I am only going to comment on my feelings and experiences.
Although I have always had a CD interest it only really came out in my D/s spanking role play games.
I found that only when I was dressed fem could I really get into being sub to a GG as a man it just didn’t work and as for being sub to man NO WAY. But dressed it was a totally different ball game. My role play dressing made me feel so good that I extended it to my life style. Hears the rub, just being dressed dose not make me submissive, it is HOW I am dressed that counts. Katie school girl, maid, etc is submissive and likes being dominated, spanked and the like by GGs (including my partner) and men.
Katie, dressed to kill, or in Dom bitch, strict aunty mode is completely dominant. As a man I don’t think I am either, I am an easy going live & let live kind of guy, and in my relationship (real life) we take equal responsibilities.
For the last 5 years I have turned my “Hobby” into a job I am a professional TV. offering Dom/sub role play games to paying clients, and I must say business is good. In sub role my gentlemen always stay masculine to dominate & punish me. They are for filling a fantasy that they cant, for whatever reason do for real. Who knows, maybe their wife’s are very dominant in their relationship? When I am Dom, about 80% of my work a great proportion of my gentlemen want to cross dress, so I think that there is a connection between cross dressing and being submissive if only in “play”
Again this is only my take on the subject and I don’t want to offend any one who disagrees with me, We are all individual and do what we do for lots of different reasons. So in conclusion “If it works for you keep on doing it”

Hey Brandy,

What an awesome discussion. My wife and i have been talking about this thread while she did her makeup for work. We thought we had some insight to this conversation since we are both switches....We play both roles of D/s

1) the first thing we wanted to say is, that coming from the newer generation, we do not see house work as a submissive act. No. 1 complaint from married women is...."i dont get any help around the house, i wish i wasnt so tired"....that is the truth.

I find nothing submissive about being a house dad, i can understand where some of the "leave it to beaver" generation would see this as submissive, on the grounds that those 50' housewives were coveted for being the "good wife".

2) Being a switch....enfemme. We have been together for a long time, over the years we have learned to read each others moods to decipher the others needs. Sometimes i have the need to be submitted, and sometimes i just have the need to dominate. As does she have the same needs.

So, with that said i have found more fun and excitement in being me. Dressing is a part of me, an extension of me, and a conduit for my fantasies. Some nights i am Mistress Donni(full dominatrix attire)....and some nights i am Mistress's Donni(ringed collar,ringed leather cuffs and anklets)....just depends on our moods and needs at the time.

For her, Dominance is about the trust i give her to fulfill her needs to "use" me. She finds it erotic that i have the need to "please" her, offering my body in total trust.

For me, Dominance is about the control of my own desires inflicting pleasure where it is needed. Her need for submitted pleasure is highly erotic for me.

3) Sexual D/s, This term is really very broad when you take into account taste, turn-ons, turn-offs, and our personal boundaries.

We read earlier in this thread about the dominant one being "mean" to the sub. This we personally do not find attractive.
We are not out to humiliate each other during our fantasies. My wife has this way of being sweet and "matter of fact" when she is commanding me or making her intentions known.
Dominance is also NOT about pain as many people misconstrue, it is about CONTROL and TRUST.

Pain is usually associated with Bondage, which is different than D/s, but both can go hand in hand if you wish it. For us this would be a topic that we have far more experience in, than even our D/s roles. If i went into detail on this forum with all that, i would definatley be getting edited in a new york second!:D

4) Submitted Sex....for the straight guy.....(sounds weird huh!?)
Well not really, a long time ago...(about 10 years)...my wife and i started experimenting sexually. She liked the whole Dominatrix thing and i thought she was a dream....:love:
About a year into sex and dating, i came out as a CD....it wasnt long after that i was "pitched" the idea of her having the "tool" of the trade...(im trying admins). I had experimented on myself various times, and didnt find it displeasing. However being much younger and way in the closet, i found myself a little reserved in agreeing to it. But i did agree. Now i find myself enjoying it as if it were just another "position"

For me offering this type of sex is far more submissive than anything else i could do as a submitted lover. No amount of clothes (or lack of), bondage rope, or hot wax could equal the act of "gifting" myself to her in that way.

One Hot Freaky Couple,
-Donni and Sugar-

I am CD/ Sub very much...and my wife is sort of a strict german woman. We never dabled in much of anything so after 15 years our sex life is pretty "Stale". Plus she is a very devout catholic (ugh)... still, at 50 she has a body that don't quit but not ver fem feelings/ behavior. I told her about CD 3 weeks afoand she is understanding... accepting in time I trust. She loves me very much and is a good woman. I think she is a NATURAL for a strict dom persona. She would fit right in but I am at a loss for how to ease into it? Advice...

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1) the first thing we wanted to say is, that coming from the newer generation, we do not see house work as a submissive act. No. 1 complaint from married women is...."i dont get any help around the house, i wish i wasnt so tired"....that is the truth.

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I don't see housework as a submissive thing either. However it is a responsibility of mine to do the housework when dressed as the maid. But I do it as a partner either way and still enjoy keeping things neat and clean for my SO. Yes, she does help and does her share. It's not like I have to do all of it.

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3) Sexual D/s, This term is really very broad when you take into account taste, turn-ons, turn-offs, and our personal boundaries.

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For us it is not just sexual D/s. Basically, she is the head of the household. That is when we were living together. Right now family matters keep us in 2 different states...for now.
I have very mixed feelings when it comes to sexual things. At times, I simply feel like a man pleasing the woman I love. Other times I do feel very feminine and love to worship her body with massages that last for hours it seems. Those massages always turn into sexual things. Most of the time it's not a matter of being submissive, just a feeling of pleasing the woman I love. But all emotions and feelings can be present in the same time spent with her in the bedroom. So it never gets stale. However, I never feel dominant over her. Frankly, I detest males dominating women since I find that many men use women just for sex and I don't respect that mindset. (hard to express what i mean here) I surely do not mean to insult anyone who feels dominant with the woman they love. But I could never see myself dominating her, not even in play. I have felt somewhat dominant sexually or socially with past lovers, but never with my present SO.

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We read earlier in this thread about the dominant one being "mean" to the sub. This we personally do not find attractive.
We are not out to humiliate each other during our fantasies

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Mean is abuse and NOT a loving D/s relationship. If my SO was mean, we would not be a partnership.

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For me offering this type of sex is far more submissive than anything else i could do as a submitted lover. No amount of clothes (or lack of), bondage rope, or hot wax could equal the act of "gifting" myself to her in that way.

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I understand and feel very much the same way. I love to totally give myself to my SO for her pleasure. Yes, it does make me feel more feminine, even when not dressed.

Thank you for sharing Miss Donni

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How to introduce Wife to Dom role?
I am CD/ Sub very much...and my wife is sort of a strict german woman. We never dabled in much of anything so after 15 years our sex life is pretty "Stale". Plus she is a very devout catholic (ugh)... still, at 50 she has a body that don't quit but not ver fem feelings/ behavior. I told her about CD 3 weeks afoand she is understanding... accepting in time I trust. She loves me very much and is a good woman. I think she is a NATURAL for a strict dom persona. She would fit right in but I am at a loss for how to ease into it? Advice...

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Due to an apparent typo, I don't know when you said you told your wife about your CDing. Was it 3 weeks ago, or 3 weeks into your relationship? (afoand)???

My advice would be to talk to her about it. Tell her how you feel. Suggest she try to play dominant over you. See how she feels about it. I assume you have good communication between you.

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Originally Posted by KATIE TV

so I think that there is a connection between cross dressing and being submissive if only in “play”

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That's what I sense too, just from general impressions I've gotten from reading so many threads here. There's a desire to be submissive, whether or not it translates into RL practices. I think that behaviors associated with submission makes CDs feel more feminine.

EDIT I want to add that I'm referring to a higher incidence of CDs (compared to the non-CDs), who give the impression they wish to be submissive. I don't think that all CDs want to be submissive.

Can ONLY speak for myself, personally hate terms, dom/sub, top/bot, I'm me! I want a loving, respectful guy, that I can love in return......and housework here, would be 50/50! Sorry, No fantasy of mine.

Wait a sec and ill go ask my Wife what she wants me to say :D:D:D

Being submissive is certainly an interesting fantasy but, probably, in reality it wouldn't be a very fun way of life.

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Originally Posted by izzfan

Being submissive is certainly an interesting fantasy but, probably, in reality it wouldn't be a very fun way of life.

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Interesting comment. Makes me think....You could apply the part about anything being an interesting fantasy, but in reality it wouldn't be a very fun way of life.

Being full time female
Being in transition
Being petite
Being big breasted...... Well you get the idea. It is a fun way of life for many. Maybe "fun" is not the correct word. But it is a way of life I like, want and do live. I would not want to change it. The each his/her own.

So like all the examples above. (Being anything) can be fun (your word) for someone, just perhaps not you or me.

This is definitely the case for me. Forced feminization and bondage while dressed is great. I love it when my girlfried suprises me with a "get dressed!" or "put on your shoes!"

Miss Brianna...that term "forced femization" I never have gotten that. How can a man say he is into forced femization when in fact if he is into it, he is not being forced at all. Talk about an oxymoron! Ok, I get it that some men need to pretend he is being forced so it is like this act was not his idea. Usually a man that does not accept the fact that he enjoys crossdressing. So it is really just play acting and not real at all.
My SO does tell em when she wants me to dress. it might even be in the form of an order. But never is it forced or even close to it. I want to dress for her. She wants me to dress for her, so I would not even like to "play" like it is forced. I just don't get it.
I also enjoy bondage. Hand cuffs or ankle shackles. I trust makes me feel like she is keeping me all for herself and to serve her every wish. Which I do. Sometimes it kind of scares me about what I'd do to please her. Not sure if it's all about being submissive to her, or out of deep love for her. BUT IN EITHER CASE, I HAVE 100% TRUST IN HER.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

There seems to be a lot of Doms posting and few subs. Yet we know (as Reine pointed out) that there are probably many more subs in this "lifestyle". Is it because
a) the subs are fearful of the repercussions?
b) Their Doms told them to say that?

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Imagine an auditorium full of people.
The speaker asks all the extroverts to stand up and shake hands with all around them. Pretty good odds most of the extroverts will do so.

Now, all the shy people, do the same thing...
anybody? ...no shy people?

I'd love to have a nice sub taking care of my wishes, doing my pedicures and manicures, and trying to keep me happy (actually not hard to do, lol). And if he looked like a babe while doing so, what's not to like? :daydreaming:

Mea, not shy

As someone mentioned earlier, Passive or introvert, is probably a more appropiate word for me, than submissive. I have learned to be more assertive than when I was younger and shy'er.

In pretty much everything in life, I do prefer taking on the helper, "wind beneath the wings", kind of role.

However, if someone tries to force me into submission, I can be very much a rebeller. If someone treats me decently and with respect, I always let them have the lead and am satisfied with being the helper/supporter.

If someone has a project, I love anticipating their next move and have the right tools and stuff ready for them to have handy as they are proceding. That is my happiest role in life. I probably would have made a good surgical nurse, helping the doctors.

I also have always prefered strong women as leaders in my life and wanted to pattern my life after them. I have never had a desire to have a male role model and I consciensly made that choice when I was around 5 or 6. My crossdressing started around age 7, so there could be a very natural link for me.

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Originally Posted by Mea GG

Imagine an auditorium full of people.
The speaker asks all the extroverts to stand up and shake hands with all around them. Pretty good odds most of the extroverts will do so.

Now, all the shy people, do the same thing...
anybody? ...no shy people?

I'd love to have a nice sub taking care of my wishes, doing my pedicures and manicures, and trying to keep me happy (actually not hard to do, lol). And if he looked like a babe while doing so, what's not to like? :daydreaming:

Mea, not shy

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Hi Mea, Your comments got me to thinking about something I have done around female friends from time to time. Now I'm talking about mostly or very vanilla GG women. None that knew of my being either a crossdresser or a submissive at the time. In some cases it was one on one and I remember at different parties, maybe 3-4 women all in a conversation together.

I'd start off asking how they would like a guy that would give them a massage for as long as they liked. Then ask if they would like a guy that did the cooking, cleaning up afterwards, a guy that did the laundry, the main household chores such as vacuuming, dusting, dishes etc. Then I'd ask how they'd like a guy that would brush their hair and care for it, even give them a bath and shave their legs for them. He would do pedicures and manicures, I'd ask if they would like a guy that ran all the errands, would give up a day of fishing or golf and do something together with you even if he would rather do something else. He'd even do all your ironing. And to top it off, he does windows! lol

Well the response was nothing but YES, YES YES! Other then some that did not like someone giving them a bath or brushing their hair or one or another point. But as soon as I said this guy would be submissive to all their needs and wants and look to be dominated by them, some, not all, then would say they don't like submissive men or being dominated. Funny how adding the words dominant and submissive instantly gave them a different view of the picture I painted.

Of course i might have outed myself as a submissive to them, and that's fine. But if I also outed myself as a CD, then things might have really gone negative. However, there are a few that I did trust in telling in private. Not one felt any differently about me as a man or a person.

Interesting how many women would love the attention, but don't want to put a label on it.

That's because the GGs dont want anybody to know that their guy is submissive--actually want they really want is a guy who is dominant with everybody else but submissive to them and their needs.

...are crossdressers that are submissive, and are crossdressers are not!
not all crossdressers are submissive, and not all submissive are crossdressers...

big hug to you all!!

For those CDs who experience guilt (a needles feeling we impose on ourselves after years of having to be male) submission may help relieve it. Being "forced" to dress or serve a woman may in some way take some of their own decision-making out of it.

Just a theory, but as there are whole sites devoted to submissive "sissies" and some guilt may be inevitable, for some of us anyway, I think it is one possible reason.

The extraordinary pressure some males in high business places deal with may lead to submissive crossdressing, too, or at least be associated with it.

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Brandy from the very, very little I know about the lifestyle, I do understand (I think) that at the end of the day the sub "has the upper-hand" so to speak, in any good sub/DOM relationship, especially if it does involve physical correction/pleasure in that safe words/signals are used between the DOM/sub and once spoken/or signaled the play ends immediately or have I got that very very wrong ?

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In typical D/s relationships there is a power exchange. Since the top can only behave as the bottom has allowed through negotiations, the bottom has the most power. The power to give, the power to allow, and most importantly the power to say NO!
Any supposed D/s relationship where the bottom just does whatever the top says and is bullied is frowned upon by the BDSM community at large.
These types of bottoms who put themselves in these situations are usually lacking in self esteem and can be somewhat mentally unstable, in other words, a bad situation.
I'm saying this not from experience but because i've done some research and talk with friends in my local BDSM community.
I'm hoping that i may meet a GG that is supportive and accepting of a TG mate, and is also somewhat dominant as i'm naturally submissive.
And i like your discription Brandy, i too wish too serve my mate and honor her in her beauty and femininity by doing so.
mj (Cassie)

This is far too general a topic to adraw conclusions, so I shall speak of myself only. It is also far too easy to confuse empathy with submission. As male, I do not do not seek to rule over my wife (or other GGs), for I do not have that right. That said, I do tend to be a lot more open to her needs and wants. I believe in partnership, and think that CDing is a great leveler in that regard.

My CDing when combined with that great partnership has made me stronger, though. I refuse to submit to those who would put me down for being me. I've been hurt too bad in the past, and the stuff won't happen again, because I have a great ally in my my wife.

The final thing I'll say in all this is that I hate the way CDing is presented by porn purveyors. Whilst I can't accurately quantify it, I feel that there is a out of proportion emphasis on submission there.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

Nope...not submissive but I am flexible. I am an Alpha male in drab but when CD'ing I tend to be a bit less Alpha and more flexible. I mean, I enjoy feeling both feminine (when dressed) and masculine when in drab. I am not ever looking for a fight or trouble but don't like taking direct orders either (dressed or not). I do enjoy helping clean the house while dressed and cook, and ya know, my wife likes it too!:):battingeyelashes:

My male self is a control freak and Tina is incredibly high-maintenance (as my wife will tell you!) and is a neatness freak. We do understand well the D/s lifestyle, but my wife and I are "into" equality and empathy, something the arrival of Tina has enhanced greatly!

In keeping with the thread, since Tina only arrive 5 years ago, the reality is that there was nothing submissive about me before Tina, and nothing has changed. In fact, I would venture so far as to say that I see becoming Tina as a very dominant act, taking control of a part of my life that was "floating" up to that point. Ah yes, the control freak in me seems to be in full bloom, even controlling existence to permit my feminine side to flourish.

Tina!

I'm a switch and dressing doesn't appear to have a direct impact on my dominant or submissive behaviors.

Now choice of clothing certainly does... which is to say if I go for a pink flower soft outfit... it swings my submissive mindset into play.

On the other hand when I grab my leather skirt, a dark red or deep violet top tight to my body... my dominate side takes a nice step forward.

I suspect if one were too do a study on people (any sex) you would find that how one dresses can directly effect how dominate or submissive the person feels (or reacts in a given situation). There have been studies which touch upon these basis's and we know how one dresses effects ones emotions and mood on a multitude of levels.

If I were to gather a guess... most men who cross-dress (and have a significant and healthy male side) will likely feel more submissive when dressed in females clothing. But there we always be some (and some outfits) which work the other way ;)

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Is there a connection..crossdressing and being submissive?

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The answer is simple in my opinion: no.

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Originally Posted by ~Michelle~

The answer is simple in my opinion: no.

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I would disagree with your simple answer Michelle.

I never said anything about 'ALL Cder's being submissive, but I do feel there is a definite connection for 'MANY' CD's to desire being submissive to their wife or SO...or maybe just for play with any GG that would play the role of a Domme. I am not talking about being submissive in general to just anyone or in their social or work place life. I for one am not submissive to anyone any place or time other then the one woman I am in love with. My desire or interest in being submissive to GG's was definitely born out of my admiration, respect, love and yes, even lust for women in general. I simply think this may be true for many of us. Again, not all of course. In fact some CD's like to be or play the Domme role when dressed. Some like to dominate women and some like to dominate other CD's or even men. We surely are not all cut from the same mold. But again, I think it is a popular feeling in many of us.

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Originally Posted by Midnight Skye

I'm a switch and dressing doesn't appear to have a direct impact on my dominant or submissive behaviors.

Now choice of clothing certainly does... which is to say if I go for a pink flower soft outfit... it swings my submissive mindset into play.

On the other hand when I grab my leather skirt, a dark red or deep violet top tight to my body... my dominate side takes a nice step forward.

I suspect if one were too do a study on people (any sex) you would find that how one dresses can directly effect how dominate or submissive the person feels (or reacts in a given situation). There have been studies which touch upon these basis's and we know how one dresses effects ones emotions and mood on a multitude of levels.

If I were to gather a guess... most men who cross-dress (and have a significant and healthy male side) will likely feel more submissive when dressed in females clothing. But there we always be some (and some outfits) which work the other way ;)

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Hi Skye, You bring up a very valid point. I will admit that I do feel more submissive when dressed. And further, if I am dressed in a maid's uniform, I feel even more submissive. I would suspect that for the GG Domme, she might also feel more dominant when she is wearing leather, boots, hose and other things that are typically worn by those that engage in BDSM or D/s. However, most truly dominant women dress like anyone else other then for play time, party time etc.
But you make me wonder...If I was to dress in leather and what is considered the dominant look, would I then feel more dominant? I think so. Of course I can't see myself ever dominating my SO. It just would not work or be right for me....and definitely would be a hard limit for her. As in it's not happening! lol

So the way anyone dresses might make them feel differently with each different mode of dress.

I can almost copy Tinalynn's words, word for word. As a Male, I am the traditional husband, who is very much in control of the household, and my wife and I are equals in the house. Everyone of our friends would see us as the "traditional" couple. I work, manage the household stuff, and she's the traditional "wife" stereotype. Neither one is submissive or dominate.

However, behind closed doors, all she has to do is say a few words, and we both know who is in control. Not for things such as cleaning, cooking, etc, just small hints of control, like to go get her this or that, or do this small task.

Now, from a CD size, The submissive part has been around for most of our marriage, however, prior to the start of wearing her lingerie, I had to initiate it. Now, as the CD part of our relationship has come out over the past 5 years, she is very comfortable being the Dominate one, and actually is to the point where she enjoys it, and wants more. Nothing big, just mild bdsm stuff. When I'm dressed in lingerie, I totally forget about being the male, and will do anything she ask, and she takes advantage of that. When she leaves a nice nightie on the bathroom counter at night, I immediately know she wishes to dominate me, and I immediately get excited about pleasing her in every way she asks. No questions asked.

So, I don't know if there's a connection, however, both parts have been around for 20 years or so, and it's become more open the last 5 years, and enjoyable to both. As our son will be leaving for the military in 4 months, I'm hoping that the CD and Submissive part of our relationship will grow, and become more of a regular part of our routine.

Hello again Bobbi, (said hello in your introduction) I too agree with what Tinalynn had to say. There really is no one way or right way to feel or be submissive or dominant. Each couple has to work out what is right for them both to enjoy their roles in each other's life. No different then any other interaction as husband and wife. I think I said it before, for some it's just a weekend or every now and then play thing. For others it's a 24/7 way to interact with each other. Or at least know who is the dominant one and wears the pants so to speak. There are various rituals, protocal that many follow each and everyday. My SO and I did for quite awhile until life got in the way. And when we are able to live together again, it will have to change since we now have her 3 granddaughters to raise. So nothing will be giving us away as to how we interact. We will simply be grandma and grandpa to them. But behind closed doors we know we will still be able to enjoy the private moments in our respective roles in each other's life. But maybe the girls will see how a man does like to help out and do things for the lady he loves. That a woman is not the only one to do chores and housework etc. So I think we can instill some good impressions as to what a caring gentleman is. At the same time, we will always know I serve her and she is in charge. For me, it makes no difference as to how I am dressed. Yet I do feel somewhat more submissive when dressed for her. I'm glad she really enjoys that side of me too.
You are very lucky to have such a wonderful wife that has learned to enjoy your fem and sub side.

The simple answer is: no.
Yes, there are cd's who are submissive, but that doesn't mean there's a connection. And there are guys who don't crossdress, are manly men, take-charge dominant leaders at work and in the community, who are extremely submissive at home.
No connection.

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Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn

The final thing I'll say in all this is that I hate the way CDing is presented by porn purveyors. Whilst I can't accurately quantify it, I feel that there is a out of proportion emphasis on submission there.

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But here's a factor...

(oh, gosh, never thought I'd ever be defending purveyors of porn)

the customers of the product are both the dom type who can imagine themselves being the one playing with the sub shown...

while the same images are easy enough for the sub type to imagine being the sub shown.

(Not that I would know :D )

Hey brandy,

i had some thoughts about the term Forced Femme....
The Forced part is usually part of the Dom's perspective of attraction, as to where the Femme part is is more part of the Subs perception of attraction. Its a two part fantasy, the terminology was created to be attractive for both parties....not just the "sissy"

Skye had a great point as well in her view of the attire/switch persona. Being a switch, i have to agree....Dress and undies is much more the mindset/attitude of being the Sub....as to where the Leather and chains is more the Dom's side of the sexual role play...I tend to think softer and be more open to the Submissive role with softer clothing. When im feeling the Dom side kicking in, its all about the hard edge of the leather and boots....However this just speaks to the sexual side of D/s fantasy

Id also point out sometimes 50/50......means you both have an active role in productivity around your house not just inside....50/50 of the house work, 50/50 of the yard work....
Why cant we just split the 50/50's......ill do the house....and you do the yard.....lol....Just teasing :D

-Donni-

I'm more a neutral type as well, however I do notice that I'm sometime more submissive when I'm dressed... I tend to just go with the flow an the only time alarm bells have rung for me at the moment have been when my wife asks if the mail has been. I wouldn't mind toting with the idea of me being submissive but I supposed that's a step for another heeled day ;)

When a young boy feels an attraction to femininity, and things feminine, there will be effects. Living in our culture, it's not unusual for parents, peers, advertising, and the media in general, to often equate femininity, and femaleness in general with frivolousness, weakness and passivity. Shame, embarrassment, and self-loathing can easily accompany a boy's desire to be feminine. It's not a huge step for a developing youngster to sexualize his feelings to deal with the shame he (quite unnecessarilly) feels, and turn his embarrasment and anxiety over being different into a turn-on, something that is alot easier to handle. I didnt just make this up. I have seen it described by more than one person who was a cd or used to identify as one. Seems as good an explanation as, actually better than, any other I have seen.

Hugs,

Melissa:)