Do you think pretty T-girls make men question their own sexuality?

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Originally Posted by Marleena

Do you think pretty T-girls make men question their own sexuality?

Your thoughts? I have no idea myself.

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Marleena, this has been a rather interesting thread! Despite your later comments regretting what you've posted I kinda like seeing what people have to say.

When I read your first post I understood the implications you made regarding the difference between TS and CD, and although I am not offended by the use of the term "T-girl" (I use it all the time) we have to recognize that it isn't a standard term and definitely not one that has the same meanings to even everyone on this board (as we have now seen).

So, there seems to be some confusion and thus the answers reflect whether the person giving them is referring to a CD or TS "T-girl". My perspective is that of a pre-op TS.

Short answer, yes! And many men will quickly address that issue in one way or another. When I first began to date my boyfriend he quickly pointed out that he wasn't gay. I laughed out loud when I answered and told him "I certainly hope not! I'm heterosexual and I have no interest in gay men!"

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

I think one of the great obstacles to being accepted as a transgendered person is that some males do find thier own sexuality challenged. It seems that some men worry that they might be gay, and some men worry that they might really like being women. Certainly, it can be disconcerting for some men to feel a sexual attraction to a person, only to realize that the person is genetically male.

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You've hit the nail on the head! Regrettably, men who are homophobic often express that in violence when they feel deceived. In fact, this is really the basis for much of that anti-trans bathroom legislation. The arguments always seem to center on the deception myth, that we're all out to ensnare unsuspecting men into doing horrible things that they'd never, ever dream of doing in their normal, decent, morally upright lives.

Yup, that's us. Bad, bad transwomen!

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

There has to be a lot of things in place to really "fool" a man. I also don't buy the Trans-panic thing so much as the Trans-OH-CRAP now they think I am gay panic. Note that doesn't mean that the violence isn't very real I just believe that usually it is the guy KNOWS what he is getting into then freaks afterward. (also part of that is the non-reveal by the TG... no matter how much you think you are female or how well you pass so to speak, you need to be honest before it gets to the point where you life could be in danger). And yes it would be dangerous that is why you have to take every precaution to protect yourself BEFORE it gets out of hand.

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Exactly! But seriously, is there anyone here that is so dimwitted as to not be able to recognize when a man is flirting with her or finds her attractive? If you're pre-op, non-op or a CD you've got to do something -

- Discourage your suitor, leave the area or don't put yourself in that position in the first place, or

- if this is something you want then find a way to address the subject in a safe and non-threatening way

And above all, be careful! Always make sure that you know who you're talking to and try to understand how open minded they might be before you put yourself at risk.

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Originally Posted by busker

I find the terminology confusing. Are you writing here about T(ransgendered)-girls? If it is the umbrella term, then you should just say CD's who pass to nearly everyone that sees them (or maybe not), and if you are talking about pre-,post-op trans-sexuals, then it would be better to say that (or she-males).

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Busker, because you apologized to kellycan27 I'm going to spare you the drubbing that you so richly deserve. But seriously? 733 posts as of your last and you still talk like someone who gets all of your TG education from ******* porn sites. You've really got to start paying attention if you're going to hang around here.

And just so you know how bad this is, if you had called me a ******* to my face you'd find out very, very quickly just how offensive that term really is.

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Originally Posted by busker

There is a big difference because a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman.

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OMG, have you lost your mind? Do you really not know the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation? Are you really unaware that there are plenty of transwomen in all phases of transition who identify as lesbian?

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Originally Posted by busker

With a TS who has had a vaginaplasty, there would be the proper equipment but the male may still feel that the TS is a man, having been born a genetic male

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Really? So there's only one way in, hmm? Surely you do know that many heterosexual couples also engage in anal sex as a regular part of their sexual activities. Or is that news to you? So far, lack of "proper equipment" hasn't prevented me from having a fulfilling heterosexual sexual relationship.

I think it only causes men to question their sexuality if they are insecure about it in the first place. Unfortunately... in our cultures that is most men, because of the neurotic attitudes towards sex that we are raised with.

If somebody clear-headed about sex got busy with a TG woman then discovered, he'd probably think something like "hm.. so she has a penis... well the other body parts feel pretty good, it might be fun" ... and then ultimately might or might not decide it was to his taste (or she was or wasn't), just like the things they do with any GG.

Instead most just panic and think "Oh my god does this mean I'm <insert category here>?" because they worry what everybody else will think or do if they are <category>, never mind whether it actually makes sense.

Does the question then become "how do we fix this"?

How can you correct homophobia so strong that they believe they can be "turned gay"?
How can you educate the next generations when equality is being fought tooth and nail?

It's sad to think that as far as society has come, there will still be plenty of deaths caused by ignorance and blind hatred.

If I was hitting on a girl and found out she was a CD I'd be delighted as this would be a serious conversation and hopefully a good friendly relationship! But then I don't hit on girls! Been 'happily' married most of my life and even though we are now more friends than lovers, I have no desire to 'cheat', as I believe it is often called.

BUT... Many many years ago a bass player in one of my early bands did establish a relationship with a CD, thinking she was a GG, and was pretty hurt when he found out he'd been 'tricked'. He was young and very naive at the time.

The world may seem different now with the internet and all this 'information', but most guys process the surface info first... nice chick? If they then find the she is a he, they have a choice... whoops, sorry... or anger at being fooled.

Crocodile Dundee?

Yes I think it does cause all men to question their sexuality. In some areas, like were I exist, it is a great disgrace for a GM to even have any feminine thoughts or actions. It threatens their standing in the local GM hierarchic. I was not aware of this when I built my home here in 1984. nor when I finally moved here in 2004.
I am seriously thinking of selling the house and land and moving elsewhere and starting anew as a 24/7 female.

Honestly, I don't think it takes a passable T-girl to make the average testosterone filled guy to question his sexuality. I've seen the simple existence of crossdressers in the same general area as guys seem to irritate the bejezzus out of these fellows. I may be reading more into the situation that was there, but what else could make them so angry with no direct contact or interaction? Now they may not have gone deep enough in their self analysis in that moment to figure out what had them angry, but if anyone was ever able to sit them down and work through it, I think they feared if that could happen to some other guy, they were in jeapordy of wearing a dress as well.

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Originally Posted by Marleena

First of all I hope nobody finds the term T-girls offensive. We have some very pretty members here that can attract male attention. We know men are very visual. They see a hot girl and they get turned on.

Oh and why are Cd admirers attracted to TG girls? Is it the femininity, or do they think easy sex score?

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Marleena, some TG admirers are those that do not want to admit even to themselves that they are gay or bi. If they see a TG woman and are attracted to her even knowing she is not a GG. That makes everything OK to have sex with her since they can pretend that she is a GG making it OK. Not much different from the CD that say they are attracted to other CD's and can justify having sex as if they are 2 lesbians. You know, the ones that say they are straight, but either do or want to have sex with other CD's.

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. If they meet a CD (a very good one) or a Pre or Non-op TS and find that they are attracted to her, they are brought to the big "decision" immediately after the discovery of the hidden appendage. If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON. For example, I'm attracted to men who have a certain level of fitness but I would be able to look past a bit of a belly if I really liked him. Am I looking for a guy with a beer gut? Hells no, but if I met someone, and he was awesome in other ways, I could deal with the belly, provided it was manageable.

I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude. I think it would be fine. I also think he wouldn't have any problem getting his freak on if that's the way his girl wanted to roll. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Michelle.M

if you're going to hang around here.

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Yes, exactly. I've been debating with myself whether there is anything here worth my time. After all, I'm JUST a crossdresser, living with lung cancer, wondering if this is the best place to spend my time when I might actually be doing something to further my interest in JUST crossdressing elsewhere.
well, TTFN

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. If they meet a CD (a very good one) or a Pre or Non-op TS and find that they are attracted to her, they are brought to the big "decision" immediately after the discovery of the hidden appendage. If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON. For example, I'm attracted to men who have a certain level of fitness but I would be able to look past a bit of a belly if I really liked him. Am I looking for a guy with a beer gut? Hells no, but if I met someone, and he was awesome in other ways, I could deal with the belly, provided it was manageable.

I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude. I think it would be fine. I also think he wouldn't have any problem getting his freak on if that's the way his girl wanted to roll. ;-)

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I agree with you for the most part. When I met my future husband he was a client with the company I worked for, and the owner's best friend. He would often stop by on business or just to visit his friend. It was to become a regular thing for him to stop by my office to say hi and do a bit of casual flirting. This went on for almost a year and as far as I could tell he had no clue. One day I ran into him at crowded restaurant. He was standing in line to get a table and when I noticed him I offered to share mine. As we made made small talk the subject of motorcycles came up ( we both ride) and he said that there was an event coming up and that "maybe we could attend it together". I said.. Are you asking me out on a date? His response was yes.. I guess I am. I told him that I would think it over, and he jokingly asked if I was playing hard to get. (I was definitely interested, but in a quandary as to the disclosure thing) Should I tell him before the date or after? That decision was made for me. Shortly after our lunch meeting he expressed an interest in dating me to my boss ( his friend) at which time he promptly outed me. The date for the motorcycle event came and went.. and there was never any mention of it. I was upset ( crushed) and whenever he dropped by i would give him the cold shoulder. Too busy to talk to you now, I have work to do. One day he showed up at my house and said he wanted to explain. ( I didn't invite him in, I just folded my arms across my chest and leaned against the door frame). There's no need to explain.. I know the drill. You're one of those guys who is only interested in my looks and what's in my panties and not me the person. You asked me out on a date, not to sleep with you or maybe that's how you figured it would go.. we'd go out and afterwards I'd just automatically fall into your bed. No.. I am sorry I just didn't know and.... I was hoping we could talk and at the very least still be friends. Friends? Lucky me! Kelly.. first runner up. She gets the consolation prize of being "your friend". I basically told him to go F himself and I didn't need to be his friend. Well not basically.. I actually said just that. After sulking for a couple of weeks and being mad at the world I finally realized that I had fallen for the hype.. my own as well as the others. guys hitting on me and asking me out. People telling me how pretty I was etc. I also realized that it wasn't his fault.. how could it be? He didn't know. I offered the olive branch and we made up ( agreeing to be friends). We started doing things together... no sex, jut two people spending time and eventually ( almost 2 years) it all came together. There's a ton more to the story.. these are just the cliff notes. I don't think it was ever a question of his own sexual identity, but rather his sexual preference.
As far as being kept as someone's dirty little secret.. I could go on a rant about that, but I won't lol

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. . . .If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON.

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Oh, no doubt! That's exactly what's going on with me. Admittedly, my boyfriend likes the outlook that I have as a transwoman, but that's the main attraction and not the fact that I still have my original plumbing. That just happens to come with the girl (for now).

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude

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And since I am not out that actually works out just fine for us. As far as I'm concerned my birth gender is not only not anyone else's business it's not even relevant to anything I am today, except insofar as my past has shaped my current outlook.

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

As far as being kept as someone's dirty little secret.. I could go on a rant about that, but I won't lol

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Kelly, I think I know where you're coming from. I am not at all interested in being someone's dirty little secret or someone's clandestine fetish or anything like that. Although I am not out in terms of my gender history that doesn't mean that the rest of my life isn't out in the open. I do not sneak around in the shadows for anyone. If someone can't introduce me to friends, family, coworkers or kids then I'm not interested in being with that person. But we don't have to discuss my body parts. Leaving private business private - yes. Having to be "discreet" and be a secret? No way!

Oh, by the way, Kelly - what a great story!

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Originally Posted by Michelle.M

Oh, by the way, Kelly - what a great story!

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It was a horrible time for me.. while we were being "friends" I was always hoping for more, and being that we were just friends he was dating other girls ( some pretty hot ones at that) and I would see them together at company functions that we'd attend. I can't tell you how many times he ( unintentionally) broke my heart.

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Originally Posted by busker

Yes, exactly. I've been debating with myself whether there is anything here worth my time. After all, I'm JUST a crossdresser, living with lung cancer, wondering if this is the best place to spend my time when I might actually be doing something to further my interest in JUST crossdressing elsewhere.
well, TTFN

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Hey, spare us the passive-agressive "woe is me, the poor picked-on CD" nonsense. We had this very same exchange 16 months ago -

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...n-anyway/page2

It's not our fault that since then your outlook has not matured.

Nobody is making it hard for anyone to be here. But you cannot continue to promote an agenda of outdated gender politics and wackiness and expect that nobody will challenge you for that.

I'd prefer that you stick around and just read what people are saying here and understand what makes sense and what's offensive. That's not anything that any ordinary person wouldn't do. But whether you stay or leave is entirely up to you. DO NOT put that on us!

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

It was a horrible time for me.. while we were being "friends" I was always hoping for more, and being that we were just friends he was dating other girls ( some pretty hot ones at that) and I would see them together at company functions that we'd attend. I can't tell you how many times he ( unintentionally) broke my heart.

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What?! Hotter than you? Sweetie, PLEASE! Ain't no such thing.

But it had a happy ending. You've got a nice relationship with him now! You both overcame the issue. THAT's a great story!

I don't think pretty / sexy t-girls make straight men directly question their sexuality...at least until they find out their looking at someone who has a male bit in between their legs (or at least did in one point in their life, and quite possibly live as most people who have it do for a bit of the time).

What most t-girls look like to most men, I'd imagine, is a woman who has some strong features. I think a guy who would fall for a typical t-girl would probably fall for an athletic looking genetic woman as well.

What I do think most men question if they find out they are turned on by a person with "male parts" (no matter how "not-male" they look) is their ability to "discern" "male" vs "female." One of the things I've heard a few times is that women, particularly teenage girls, are typically better at telling a t-girls from real girls. Most men, though, who claim to be 100% straight claim they could never fall for any guy (and most people say that a guy who wears women's clothing is still a guy, no matter if he feels like a woman and even has grown breasts and had "the surgery").

***the usage of the term "t-girl" in this post is meant to be all-inclusive. This means I am referring to a part-time m2f crossdresser, a full-time m2f cd (someone who just wears the clothing without any long term alterations to their body, passing might not be important), a part-time m2f transsexual (someone who feels they are in the wrong body, but doesn't want to have alterations made), a full-time pre-op m2f, a full-time post-op m2f, and all shades of gray between those "levels."***

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Originally Posted by Sarah Charles

Honestly, I don't think it takes a passable T-girl to make the average testosterone filled guy to question his sexuality. I've seen the simple existence of crossdressers in the same general area as guys seem to irritate the bejezzus out of these fellows. I may be reading more into the situation that was there, but what else could make them so angry with no direct contact or interaction? Now they may not have gone deep enough in their self analysis in that moment to figure out what had them angry, but if anyone was ever able to sit them down and work through it, I think they feared if that could happen to some other guy, they were in jeapordy of wearing a dress as well.

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This may be out of left field, Sarah. I don't know what men think when they see CDs or Tgirls!

However, back before I ever tried on any ladies things. Back when I was totally clueless as to why guys dressed that way.
When I saw a CD/TS, I wondered why they would want to appear as a homely woman when they could appear as a decent looking man?
I really don't know if other men stare and think that same thing or not.

What I'm getting from this thread is that pretty MTF's (cd/tg/ts) will attract male attention. How the men will react seems to be based on peer pressure or their openness to approach the woman.

I probably could have chosen a better title though.:)

Kelly's story in this thread is one of acceptance from a straight male. I find it wonderful and refreshing. It's a message of hope:)