A question to CD's from a TS about employment.

A few years ago I hired a TS to be the receptionist for our accounting firm. She was extremely fashionable and good with people, but a little slow on the technical side. Even though I really liked her, I eventually had to let her go because some of my biggest clients found out and threatened to take their business elsewhere. If she had been more technically competent I would have considered keeping her, but in the end I had to put our finances first and gave in to their bigoted hatred.

Another time I picked up a handful of clients who were looking for a new accountant because they found out that their former CPA had announced that he was transitioning. I had to smile because I'm sure they had no idea that their new CPA was also a cross dresser...

Bottom line is that although we all try to be as accepting as possible, we are a minority doing battle against a larger public perception. We sometimes have to put the needs of our businesses and our customers first. If a TS applied at my firm for a back office position, yes, I would hire them in a minute as long as they were technically skilled. But it get's a whole lot more complicated when hiring someone who is going to be dealing with the public.

Heck, even I sometimes wish I could come to work in a dress, but I remind myself that presenting as male at the office is just like wearing my "uniform" at work. It's not what I would wear at home, nor is it who I really am. It's just a roll I play in order to make a living.

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

Let's be completely honest here. Almost ALL customers would be put off when dealing with a non-passable TS. Sure, I know there are discrimination laws about hiring TS's. But that employer can find some other reason to not hire a TS. A non passable transitioning TS is worse than a non passable CD. What employer would deal with that if he didn't have to? Just being honest.

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The ones forced to address it through quotas. Alternatively, those who are unmasked through stings. Because your reasoning is exactly what leads to such things. It's going to get ugly because the government IS now involved.

I find the statement about non-passable TSs vs CDers bizarre. How would anyone know the difference? Returning to the general public theme, who do you think is going to care about the difference anyway?

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Originally Posted by StephanieJ

Heck, even I sometimes wish I could come to work in a dress, but I remind myself that presenting as male at the office is just like wearing my "uniform" at work. It's not what I would wear at home, nor is it who I really am. It's just a roll I play in order to make a living.

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Transsexuals are not engaged in role play at work.

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Originally Posted by LeaP

I find the statement about non-passable TSs vs CDers bizarre. How would anyone know the difference? Returning to the general public theme, who do you think is going to care about the difference anyway?

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Why would anyone care about the diff between a CD and a transitioning TS? Well, usually CD's dress male for work. A transitioning TS would probably need to dress female because they are becoming a woman, and the public just has to deal with them. That doesn't mean an employer has to deal with them, unless they choose to.

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Originally Posted by SandraAbsent

WOW! An amazing example of proving them wrong!

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I am not trying to prove anyone wrong or make any other statements. I saw a need, they had the skills, I put them to work. Simple as that.

Julie here with other complications in this trans world: Back in the 1970s when I was running operations for a big retail chain our southern stores were hiring lesbians not because red-necked store managers liked the idea but because they made the best plain-clothes in-store detectives (most apprehensions). Worked out fine for awhile until those of that persuasion started to hire like-minded individuals. Then the you know what hit the fan. I had to direct regional security supervisors to split up these groups and spread them out to stores in other cities or states. Southern states were not very accepting then and still often a problem for CDs and TS gals today. So in a corporate world we still have to be careful of too many in one location shaking up unaccepting employes.
In another situation a hardware buyer in Cleveland was boasting that his secretary had the best legs in the buying office (which she did) and her boyfriend bought her a boat. Then her past references showed up that she was in transition. The other gals in the office protested that she was using their restroom so her boss fired her and THEN called me in Secaucus, New Jerasey. I told him to rehire her and we would find another solution to the restroms. Too late! She was now uncomfortable and I helped her find another job. Mind you this was in the 1970s.
The corporate environment to this day still has to weigh what is ethical against profitable business practices.
Julie
Oh yes, how do I go about putting a picture on my profile as I just made a few? I know I need to direct ths question elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

Let's be completely honest here. Almost ALL customers would be put off when dealing with a non-passable TS.

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That might be the case where you are. Here, people are more open.

I don't mean to say that local TS never have employment difficulties, but rather that around here fears of many or "almost all" customers being upset do not appear to be well-grounded; it is taken more in stride by people here.

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

That might be the case where you are. Here, people are more open.
I don't mean to say that local TS never have employment difficulties, but rather that around here fears of many or "almost all" customers being upset do not appear to be well-grounded; it is taken more in stride by people here.

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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to argue with you, but I assure you that in the real world it generally doesn't work that way. A man wearing women's clothing (and some non passable TS' look like that) would be the kiss of death in any business requiring dealing with customers directly. Whether you want to accept it or not, that is reality.

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to argue with you, but I assure you that in the real world it generally doesn't work that way. A man wearing women's clothing (and some non passable TS' look like that) would be the kiss of death in any business requiring dealing with customers directly. Whether you want to accept it or not, that is reality.

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I work with a lot of people in our business community. I am the face of the company I work for. I've worked for the company for over 20 years.

It is pretty obvious from my physical appearance that I am trans. I don't pass that well. Though I think that I am feminine enough that people don't see me as a guy wearing women's either.

Since going full time I have not lost a single account or felt that anyone in the business community was so uneasy with me that an account was in jeopardy. And even before I went full time it was pretty much common knowledge among most the people I worked with that I was transgender and in the process of transition. July was my best sales month in 2 years.

The most difficult issue has not been me scarring customers away, because that has not happened, what they are mostly concerned with is getting what they want, but rather it has been the struggle I've had dealing with my boss for the last 2 years because he has been very afraid that my transition is going to hurt the business, that it will scare customers away, and he has wanted me gone for that.

I know that when this job is gone my chances of finding something as that non-passable trans woman are pretty dang crappy, despite my work history and experience.

Just business.

I wonder if I should go any further than the title. I am a crossdressing transexual. I went to work dressed now they know. The only thing I can't do now is wear skirts, dresses and heels. I am still CDTS and still working. Now what!


Tess

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Originally Posted by Voulez-Vous

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to argue with you, but I assure you that in the real world it generally doesn't work that way. A man wearing women's clothing (and some non passable TS' look like that) would be the kiss of death in any business requiring dealing with customers directly. Whether you want to accept it or not, that is reality.

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I'm sorry but that is the same kind of lame excuse used in the past for not hiring blacks and people of color, the handicapped, or anyone else that looks different. What about ugly people? Where does it end?

Following this logic, every bigoted idiot would drive hiring practices for businesses. This is not the "real world" at least not in 2012. I am extremely thankful that there ARE courageous people and businesses that would rather do the right thing than the expedient thing!

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Originally Posted by Debglam

This is not the "real world" at least not in 2012.

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Maybe not for you, but a whole lot of people will tell you different.

Where does it end? It doesn't.

In my past life, I was an engineering manager who has hired dozens of engineers. The only factor I ever considered was qualifications, experience and intelligence. If a TS presented these factors, I would have no problem hiring her. Period.

About a month ago, I celebrated 40 years as a mechanical engineer. In that time, I’ve done supervision, team leadership and work as an individual contributor. I have also interviewed new graduates and mid-career folks. While I may have interviewed a few gays and lesbians, I don’t think that I ever interviewed a transgender person.

During the time that I was an engineering supervisor, it was drilled into us that one of our most important functions was to eliminate or minimize liability and risk for the company. Since the company is very protective of its public image, what this means is that we should certainly avoid doing anything illegal that could reflect on the company. However, by extension, it also means avoiding things that look bad, even though it would be technically legal. It is a question of perception.

So, what if I had interviewed a transgender person? To me, interviewing was always a difficult process as I always wanted to take more time than I had. It was important to me to develop a rapport with people and attempt to understand them within the context of the position applied for. The more I understood, the better decision I could make.

The company has a pretty decent reputation regarding inclusion, same-sex partner medical benefits, support for marriage equality, etc. However, it isn’t perfect and sometimes everybody doesn’t get the E-mail. If I felt that a transgender candidate was a good fit technically, we would have had to have a long talk about the situation inside the company and where the person might be working. While this would be a very serious conversation, I would try to be as neutral as possible. When I make a recommendation to hire someone, I don’t want their response to be effected by the notion that I was trying to influence them one way or the other. My function is purely to explain the situation and requirements as best I can, answer questions as truthfully as I can, evaluate if they fit the employment situation and understand the abilities and aspirations of the candidate. I would hope that I would be able to evaluate the person and factor in their transgender status as appropriate. I would be disappointed if I did anything less.