Haha, it won't let me reply with a two word post, so I have to type this sentence. No kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
Haha, it won't let me reply with a two word post, so I have to type this sentence. No kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
Cut her loose.....................See Ya....................Just an opinion OK..Quote:
Originally Posted by jennarac
Care to elaborate why? Do you mean free myself of her？ Or free her from me? Or both?Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
Also, I'm trying not to respond over-defensively, but isn't that a bit dismissive of everything good we do have in our relationship?
Jenn, Based on my experience w/ my wife, she will never accept this from you and you will never be happy repressing this. If you love this woman then your going to have too put your foot down and tell her to stop whining about it. It will become a nightmare. I decided to split myself. Now, I have peace of mind and me and my wife are friends for now. But she thinks this thing of mine is gross, ick, disgusting, not manly, brain problems and won't do woopie w/ me. So, what to do? Like I said, when you find the secret let me know.
You're speaking as if going further is a negative. The only negative is that we live in a society that doesn't understand it all too well. But someone like my SO and many of the members here are fine with it. My SO has become practiced enough to go out in public dressed a few times per week, in the next town over, alone or sometimes with me. S/he has gotten to know some of the people who work at the places she goes to regularly and s/he has established some friendships. His work life is not threatened, since he keeps this private from his colleagues. So all in all, my SO has found a great balance with all of this. I do need to say though that my SO eliminated tons of barriers (external AND internal), to get where s/he is today and it didn't really start until his 40s.Quote:
Originally Posted by jennarac
Even throughout the past month, we've still maintained a healthy sex life. And while things are tense between us while discussing the dressing, usually a few hours later we're getting along fine again. She's very much "out of sight/out of mind"Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
That's Great that she doesn't see this as a mental block for nookie. I wish I could tell you that it'll work out but, I suspect, based on what I've read on your posts, it isn't going too last. Prepare yourself for the topsy turvey deals w/ her. She'll turn on you, I guarantee it.
I'm more optimistic, if you have been able to get through the open-marriage conversation without ending the relationship, this is easier. It's not about how much you each love each other. It's just a matter of you being honest about how important this is to your well-being, and her giving it some time to see whether she can get her head around it and stay in the relationship.
The first responses gave reasonable advice based on the information you provided; but then you added a reply that for some unbelievable rationale didn't seem important to you ---but was a BIG game changer. You may have sex with her but you sure as h--l
don't have a marriage! There is no future, no way, no how for a happy marriage. SHE DOEN'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND for whatever reason and certainly not to mend a very broken alliance. Sadly, one has to believe that you already knew where this plea for advice was headed. No need to qualify my response with an "if you or she did such and such" --- considering that you are both working, no children, and she has legally committed adultery a divorce will be less costly than is usual --- get a life --- you only have one.
Julie
Open marriages aren't immoral if both people agree to it. I understand they're not for everyone, though.
Jenn, as others have pointed out, you haven't been totally reasonable, but she has some hard-headed idea that if you crossdress, you're gay. Only you know how rocky or stable your relationship is with her, but I'd be cautious about taking advice from those who haven't even read your post or replies. Come on, folks!
Anyway, if your marriage is worth saving, and maybe it is for reasons not brought up, here's what I think is the way:
Don't Ask Don't Tell
- you have the internal drive that won't go away.
- she knows and she doesn't like it even when she doesn't see it, but for sure she doesn't want to see it.
So......the two of you agree that:
- you will do it only in private, away from her, and that means everything: your clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. photos, and conversation. Out of her knowledge completely. That's Don't Tell
- she won't try to find out what you're doing, where your things are, snooping, etc. She won't know when/whether you do or don't. That's Don't Ask.
This can work if both of you are acceptable. If at any time either of you don't like the agreement, don't break it but tell the other that you want to re-negotiate.
Nay-sayers like to point out that DADT didn't work for the military. DADT was imposed, not agreed upon, not negotiated. Not the same, the argument doesn't work. DADT works for many couples.
Thanks Nicole.
Despite what some others have said or think, my marriage isn't on the rocks or on the brink. It's actually been quite good except for this point of contention in recent weeks. And even then we're able to be close and communicative and intimate as always throughout this time... just not when discussing the CD topic or when she's reminded of it.
My point is only that my marriage is worth keeping and maintaining (not saving).
Your suggested approach seems to be reasonable, but I also feel that it will be useful to speak with a marriage counselor, to make sure that we are handling things in a way that is long-term healthy that allows us both to feel happy and fulfilled.
I don't know if I should even answer now. You're showing all the signs of being victimized by your wife, including all of the denial. There *are* control issues here, it's plain as day.
But until you can look at it and see it yourself, you'll just keep sinking deeper. I don't think she cares about the CDing. I think it's a way for her to control you. Considering that she offered to quit sleeping around (or at least to take it underground), it looks like that *is* a tit for tat thing, and it doesn't really matter.
Maybe she knows more about this than anybody gives her credit for. Maybe she knows how much control she'll gain over you if she can successfully subvert your CDing.
Maybe that's what almost happened to Victoria, too, and she's better off on her own. :hugs: Victoria
I think the kind of counselor you need is an abuse counselor. It won't kill you to try and see and get a qualified opinion on it (not that mine isn't qualified, it's just not credentialled, I've been in a few abusive relationships....).
No one knows what goes on in another person's marriage. I'm sure many of you wouldn't want to be married to the OP's wife, and you probably wouldn't want to be married to me. But surprise, surprise, sometimes the kind of women who CAN put up with a crossdresser or transgendered person also has unconventional needs of her own. I'm kinkier than my crossdressing husband, but he gives me free rein to go play with other people to satisfy my needs. Conversely, because I do have needs of my own, I can appreciate my husband's needs as well, including cross-dressing.
My assumption is that if you want to attract a spouse who is open-minded, non-conventional, and doesn't care so much about traditional gender roles, it helps to be an open-minded, non-conventional person yourself!
At first, I really sympathized with your wife, but the fact she sleeps around on you really changes the game. In light of that, having a platonic relationship with a GG who goes out with you dressed once a month is hardly unreasonable given what she is asking you to accept.
I think we are going for a ride in this thread. Jenna states:
- she has been CDing for 18 years but started wearing skirts, stockings and high heels about 5 years ago (the same time she met her wife)
- she has cut out her bad behaviors, doesn't want to be a liar or cheater anymore
- her marriage is OK even though she can communicate better with a married woman she found on Craigslist
- she posted T4M pictures on-line which was OK with her wife
- her wife offered to stop having sex with other partners if Jenna stops crossdressing
- his wife has flings with other guys which is OK with Jenna, actually exciting
- but his wife cannot handle when he sleeps with other women
- she still has a healthy sex life with her wife
- etc, etc, etc
If all true, and if Jenna and her wife are OK with their marriage - except for the CDing - then there is only one issue to address - Jenna's crossdressing.
Hi Jess, though I'm not one to counsel others in marriages but, I just have an issue w/ my wife sleeping w/ other men. She is not a toy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JessM.
Hi Jenn, if my wife was sleeping around w/ others, then she sure as hell should not have issues regarding the CDing. That's a crock of poopie.Quote:
Originally Posted by jennarac
Hi Leona, yes, my wife has a little issue w/ control which I really had no problems with since, it was always to benefit my family as a whole. I would let of stuff fly w/o much trouble too me. Then she wigged out over the CDing and the more she confronted me about it the more I stood my ground. I became a sailors knot, the more she pulled the tighter I got. I don't need a counselor, I just need her to dial into life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leona
I want a conventional, traditional woman and I will have it my way. She will learn to tolerate this in me. She's just stubborn and I can be even more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by JessM.
I don't normally stick my nose in these kinds of things. But hey why not. Maybe my advise will help. Firstly I agree with heather. Things have gone for a bit of a ride. The issue is the CDing and that's it.
The point I want to make is on the wife offering to stop sleeping around if Jenna stops dressing. What's happening there is the wife is trying to in some way renegotiate the terms available of the entire marriage? So that's the only issue that goes beyond the CDIng. Personally I'm gonna go with the get down to basics with your wife. Lay out what it is you want. What's negotiable and what's not. You dress. Its not going away. Non negotiable. After she understands that. Then its time to move on. I also agree with the DADT policy someone else put down here. Because your wife doesn't want to be a part of it. This all has to work in steps. So start with step one. Which is ....this is what I do....it won't change....you don't like it....but can you accept it... You have to start there before anything else gets discussed. Basics and one step at a time.
Just to clarify a few of those points:Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherdress
-I have been CDing for 18 years and have been wearing those things throughout that time. It did not begin coincident with the time I met my wife.
-my marriage is doing well, because, except for the CD issue which she would rather avoid talking and thinking about, she and I have great lines of communication. The friend I made on Craigslist is just that. Yes I can communicate well with her, especially on topics about CD and my wife, but it is not in lieu of talking to my wife. My wife is not being neglected or lost attention due to my new friend.
-I posted T4M pictures on-line for the feedback, for my own vanity really. My wife did and does not know about that, but that activity has also stopped.
The other points were accurate.
Just to clarify, as someone mentioned earlier, the crossdressing and her sexual freedom are not tit for tat. She is not comfortable with my CDing, whereas I have no problem at all with her occasional dalliances. And the issues are unrelated.
But ultimately yes, the only issue to address is the reason I came to this forum, my wife's ability to cope with my crossdressing. To see if I was being unreasonable in my requests of her. Should I try to be more considerate of her feelings on the issue and try and place it to the side? Or is something like once a month when she is not home a reasonable request that I should hope she can try to deal with?
I do appreciate the helpful advice I have received.
-Jenn
Judging by people's experiences here, I don't think that you can place it to the side for the long term. It is best to find out for yourself where this is coming from so that you can explain it to your wife. She does need to understand that it is more than a hobby, it is not a choice, it is actually a part of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jennarac
As to doing it once per month, this may be sufficient for now but if you can see an increase of cross-gender expression in your past (going from stocking and heels to acquiring street clothes, wanting to out yourself to other people, wanting to stretch your closet to going out dressed), it is more than likely that once per month will not be sufficient in the future. And if you try to keep it at once per month, your thoughts will turn to the CDing more often, which may well make you seem distant to your wife if you allow yourself to do this when she is present.
Your wife asked if you could stop for her. The answer is yes....BUT only for a time. How long is up to you.
If you want your marriage to work, you should spend this time talking about it. She will have to accept that this is not a phase or something that can be cured. You need to show her that you are still the man she married and that you want to be open and honest with her regarding dressing up. Your best bet is to educate her about crossdressing. Urge her to join a support group for wives.
You can stop. But the desire to be Jenna will cause resentment and stress.
Or you can do as you have behind her back, but this will cause problems as well.
Only together can you decide how to make this work.
A good starting point that my wife and i used was the wives cds Bill of Rights
I wish you the best of luck.
Hey there! I've thought long and hard about posting on this thread and here goes.
First, I applaud you for your honesty, both with yourself and with your wife, if everything you've posted here is any indication. You have the courage to accept your transgressions for what they are and have a definite sense of your feelings for your wife and your marriage. You also have the humility and courage to accept your errors of judgement without seeking to defend them. I get the sense that you are an inherently trusting person who views human interactions for what they are in the moment, without attributing motive or intention to words. You also seem like the person that processes all emotions best when they are expressed and communicated rather than forming judgements based on one or the other action. If this is correct, more power to you! :)
I'm particularly struck by your statement that worry never formed a part of your thought process until multiple views and opinions were presented before you. Do I feel you know what your priorities are? Yes, I do. Do I feel you've found your peace and comfort with the dressing? Perhaps not. If I were to venture an opinion, I would say you're at the start of your journey; ergo, confusion and conflict.
No, I do not subscribe to the common view that your wife is a controlling individual seeking to dictate terms to you. Expressing extreme discomfort or a dislike for one or the other activity doesn't make a person controlling. Because that dislike manifests itself as a demand to cease and desist doesn't make a person controlling. From all your posts it is a contrary perception that presents itself; one of healthy respect and acceptance of each other's needs and differences, save one in your case.
She may very well be confused, a confusion that is today presenting itself as an aversion to your needs. Will that change? Only time will tell. Then again, you may be equally confused, therefore bringing you here and promoting you to ask the questions you have.
To pass judgement on the integrity, nature, freedoms and restrictions of your marriage is something I am loathe to do because you and your wife have made your marriage work. Principally your channels of communication are open and to my mind that is the biggest virtue any relationship can have. I pray you keep it, no matter how difficult the conversations or how heated the arguments and disagreements.
I know my views on this will not be viewed kindly by many here, based on the replies and responses you have received thus far. But I'm genuinely appreciative of the fact that you have worked through and past your transgressions to remain married. It tells me there is a genuine bond there, one that keeps in continuous perspective the reasons for which you got married in the first place. Are you being unreasonable? If you look beyond your conflict you might find your answer with no goading or pointing from any of us. To flip the question, are you happy within? I mean genuinely happy? The answer to that would tell you if this is you being unreasonable or your heart telling showing you what you need to find happiness within.
I hope you will forgive me for what turned out to be a book rather than a reply to your posts. And I will continue to watch this thread for the wonderful insights it provides into perceptions of marriage, relationships, transparency and communication. Despite all of us wanting nothing more than acceptance we appear eager to judge others with little or no fact; ironic, isn't it!
Hugs, Sonia
Jenn I thought both my marriages were fine and both ended up with them cheating on me. Your case is much different I realize that.
The main thing is the man is always the last to know what her reasons are when she either files divorce papers or walks out the door.She may be in the planning stages of dropping the bomb on you.
She is playing you and using your CDing against you.If it quacks like a duck its probably a duck.
This is only my opinion of course