Sounds like Woody Allen's 'Zelig'Quote:
Originally Posted by gendermutt
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Sounds like Woody Allen's 'Zelig'Quote:
Originally Posted by gendermutt
I imagine it does, technically, but my personal interpretation of TG is changing gender completely and permanently...I don't think I'm there yetQuote:
Originally Posted by Ressie
Gender fluid falls under transgender. Pretty much anything that is not cisgender falls under transgender except perhaps agender (the sense of not having any gender at all.) though there's a case to be made for even that being under transgender because it is differing from assigned gender at birth.
Robin, changing "gender completely and permanently" is transsexual, assuming you mean you change from male to female or female to male.
Usually I'm a big fan of people doing what they want and setting their own rules, but when it comes to language, I become less loosey-goosey because we can only communicate if we use reasonably precise definitions. ;)
Jennie, well said, yeah the Transgender or TG is what it is and we gender fluid fall under that. Robin, It is transsexual or TS that is a a permanent change.
Even though we grew up male we never really felt as a true man. And we are gender fluid, so both sides we know but not as well as one who identifies as one gender. Like I said it's crazy to be this way. My SO is really trying to understand but she don't even have a clue to what this is like for us.
Thanks for the clarification Jennie and Dana, I guess I'm happily TG (kinda, maybe a little bit) 😉
Jennie, I hear what you're saying, and this explanation is fine if, for example, you're at a party with mostly cisgenders while presenting as Jennie. Someone asks, "How do you identity", to which you reply, "transgender". They say, "Cool", and no further questions are asked. This other person likely doesn't ask any more questions, because they think they already know what this means based on what they've been exposed to, whatever this may be, and they just assume that you mean what they think it means. So to one person at that party, "transgender" means what Kaytlin Jenner does (born a woman, full transition with name change). To someone else who doesn't pay much attention to the media, it may mean the people who do drag shows. To someone else, it may mean the gay guy dressed as a woman at a gay pride parade that their friend told them about 5 years ago. And to someone else, it may mean a crossdresser. Or, the worst case scenario, a very ignorant person who believes all the tripe in the south right now that transgenders are men who want to use women's bathrooms will think this is what you mean. Are you happy with the random definitions that people who do not know all the finer details will apply to you, just based on what they think "transgender" means? Or, maybe you just don't care because you're not that interested in having these people know who you are and what you're about, which is OK too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennie-cd
Or, let's say you participate in a thread here that asks specifically what type of transgender are the members. Or, you join a TG support group and you're talking to a group of people who ask you specifically how you identify, with the understanding that you will convey how you live, how you feel about yourself, and what your goals are. Or, you are beginning a relationship with someone who wants to know if you're a man or a woman or if it's something in between, what this means exactly.
So what do you say, exactly, when someone wants to know what you mean by "transgender"?
I'm totally at peace with that in the party scenario. They have found a place to pigeonhole me and we can both get on with our evenings. In the unlikely event they ask, I can bore them to tears with details. ;) It's no different than when they ask what I do and I answer "creative consultant" and they nod their head sagely. I know without question they don't have the slightest idea but I've given them what they're looking for and we're both happy with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
In cases where I'm talking to people who are educated on the TG spectrum I can say more, but as I'm sure you're aware, there is little agreement in terms. Many words carry an emotional charge that is specific to the listener. For example, I'm perfectly comfortable with the term "transvestite" because it has no emotional overlay to me. I know many on this forum load a lot of meanings on to that word, so I don't use it here much. I was a theatre major -- the prime directive is "read the room"; figure out what they want. If they want to know what I do, who I'm attracted to, etc. I can talk to that, but I adjust my pitch to the audience. ;)
But if it's possible, I like to use precise words with defined meanings. If I'm at an HRC event, for example, I can get trans-geeky with my peers.
There are some little things here and there in your responses that I would love to talk about more, but I think they open up too many other difficult conversations for this thread.
At any rate, I shared something pretty deep down in me when I talked about how I feel my brain processes things. It's not something I usually talk about in the company of men. I would love to read it if you would share something of your own like that. I think knowing people more deeply is a good path to understanding.
Back in the mid-90's, an employee affinity group of which I was president, brought in a husband and wife team to do a personal growth and development workshop. One of the topics had to do with how people think and work based on cultural background. The audience was engineers and technicians. It always struck me that I worked differently from other engineers, but I had no idea as to what that meant. What I learned was that my default was not logic; it was intuition. Logic is used in support of intuition. It's not that I don't, or can't, do logic. It's just not where I start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
The thing is that it isn't necessarily a disadvantage. Often it means concentrating on something as opposed to a step-by-step procedure. In the context of this discussion, it is more towards the feminine than the masculine.
I've always been pretty specific. I've told people that I identify as transgender, but I have no plans to transition. Not everyone who identifies as transgender needs to transition. The degree of mismatch that I have is not enough to make transition a necessity.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
DeeAnn
Gender identity is not having a male or female body. Most TS will argue WE do not change gender. WE come to grips with that we are born with the wrong bodies for our gender identity. We fix the bodies to align with OUR gender identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennie-cd
Georgette -- I understand. And I realize that TS folk experience huge amounts of frustration over the semantics invoked when non-TS people are trying to do their best to put words around something they don't (can't) understand. I was trying to respond to Robin in her terms. Sometimes precision is the enemy of communication. No disrespect meant.
Jennie
I assume there was NO intentional disrespect. We live in a confusing world. I just like to clarify assumptions sometimes.
It can be a touchy subject to some I know. Education and explanations, especially on a generic TG forum. Being very old school, I don't always understand TS that don't go the full route, but I accept that WE are all different.
I like when others explain things to me things that are confusing, like the threads dealing with Gender Fluid. I accept that some men, for whatever reason cross dress, but can't say I understand, just as many can't explain/understand also. I know quite a few, and have to say they are very happy for those times.
Hi Zooey -- (Love the name.) I don't know if that was directed to me or if it just happened to happen after my post. I went back and looked at your previous postings and it seems you're after something very worthwhile but perhaps impossible to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
To me that's a lot like asking someone to describe yellow without using things that are yellow as a reference. Very hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
Asking a gender fluid person to explain being gender fluid puts a huge burden on them because you're asking them to know what it's like to NOT be gender fluid and then highlight the differences. All you'll get from that in an insight into how little they understand what it's like to NOT be gender fluid. It's like a straight person trying to explain what it's like to be gay or a sighted person to describe what it's like to be blind. There's just no frame of reference there. I'm not saying it can't be explained, but it can't be explained in words. One of my earliest transformative moments was when I realized that there are situations where you can't use words. People use examples from their lives to try and express the ineffable but chances are you're going to have to read a lot of those to find the common thread. And even then you might not be able to absorb the message. (Abstract "you"; not dissing you personally.)
Moving on...
Your description of your thought processes in reply #41 is awesome and makes me feel that we think alike, but since I don't know how other people think I'm not sure it distinguishes either of us from the rest of humanity. People, as best I can tell, only think linearly in novels. Some people are better at filtering out all the side-trips and footnotes when they're talking to others, but I don't believe it's a gender characteristic but more of a learned behavior on top of a personality type.
Personality type can be somewhat reflected by the Jungian personality types which when tested for frequently result in a four-letter (keep your mind out of the gutter) designator (mine is INFP, for example) that specifies how you approach/assimilate information. Some people believe in them strongly, some view it as astrology for the psychologically inclined. But it keys into DeeAnn's remarks a bit in that it can help sort out if you approach things with intuition (using feelings to acquire information, as she and I apparently do) or with "sensing" (think "using sensors to acquire information.")
I think one thing we as a group should take away from our experiences is that we shouldn't assign behaviors to sex roles. We're victims of that. Break the cycle. You describe things with reference to men and it may be important to understand that it's not their dangly bits that make the difference it's their approach and although statistically you're more likely to find specific behaviors among men, they exist in women as well. It's possible to find men who cooperate instead of compete, who approach problems with empathy instead of analysis, who use perception instead of "facts." In other words, we're all correct in our approach to life even though we all have different approaches. (Sorry, seem to have wandered off track a bit... Again.) My advice is don't seek The Answer because it's not going to be 42 or the letter C -- the answer is different for everyone and all of those different answers are correct. And interestingly all of those different answers, except yours, are wrong for you. (I should embroider that somewhere.) The danger is if you seek a single answer of what it is to be gender fluid or some other thing then you separate the world into people who are doing it right and people who are doing it wrong and you're saying you have the wisdom to know the difference. Don't fall for it. I'm doing what's right for me as best I know how. You're doing what's right for you. The key is learning to trust each other that we will make the right decisions. ;)
I doubt that there will ever be an agreed upon, official definition, however your Google search hits it pretty well on the head if you ask me. Some days I feel more female. Others more male. Some days I'm neither, both, or something in between. Because it shifts seemingly at random, I consider myself gender fluid.
Jennie, I get what you're saying. I'm not looking for some miraculous answer or logical explanation though... What I'm looking for is a connection.
There are men and women of all sorts, and I connect and relate with all of them slightly differently. Amongst women, there has always been a common underlying feeling to that connection (the same is true for men). When somebody tells me that they are a woman, or part woman, or sometimes a woman, etc., I start looking for that feeling. I WANT to find it - I have no interest in disproving or denying somebody's identity; I want to relate to people in that way. It's a lot harder online when I can't find it, because all I can do is ask questions.
I have struggled to find that connection here with gender fluid people so far. If there's some woman in there, I want to find it. I really want somebody to share something about their life that makes me go, "oh, there it is" and feel some of that energy. I'm pretty good with subtext, and THAT's what I'm paying attention to.
Maybe I AM asking for the impossible. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it should be.
Being as I don't personally identify as gender fluid, I don't think I am in a position to attempt an answer to your question Zooey. I could attempt an answer as one who identifies somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, albeit in a static sense and not a fluid one.
I wouldn't say impossible, but perhaps it might be difficult. I would think that when something shifts for a given person, what you would need to know the circumstances leading up to that point in time. Other than changes in body chemistry, what series of thoughts and events would come together to bring about the result. Someone would need to keep a diary of those periods in time in order to begin to understand what's going on. It would seem like that's the kind of information that you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
DeeAnn
I don't think it's impossible at all. People who've known me a while pick up on "that certain something" that tips them off. In fact, many of my friends knew I was gender fluid before I did. But not one of them can tell me what it was that they picked up on. It was just...there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
There was nothing specific that they could identify. I've found that over time, perceptive people can gain a sense of my internal identity and will call me by my (at the time) preferred pronoun.
Sometimes this happens with people who aren't even in the know. I always find it amusing when they apologize profusely for calling me "she" while I'm internally really happy they did.
Anyway, Zooey, I'd love to help you find that connection. I think that if I help you find that connection, I might find some answers of my own. If nothing else, I'll find more questions.
I believe I might understand why Zooey asks and Mikell's answers as they do; I resonate with their expressions.
As i did not think about my gender until a year ago, and as it took me nine months to finally know and for everything to click into place, I'm faced with a similar thing here. I certainly feel some "fluid" folk here are likely in transition albeit a lot more slowly than my own path, whereas most folk act really as men here without much feminine apart from the clothes. I've felt most transwomen here as "feels like a woman" and the odd one "feels like a man", I can't really describe it, like Zooey says, it's a feeling you get.
I've not thought about this "feeling the other person's gender" before, but checking back into past situations and present ones, the feelings are there. Recently, men look at me differently, communicate differently, a couple of old male friends have definitely distanced themselves, and I've been "looked up and down" a few times, the most unexpected of which was a gay couple (friends of a female friend met in passing), as if I were also on their radar.
So to the feeling of "fluid", I can calibrate a feeling of "in transition, probably a woman in a male body not yet knowing it for sure", and "a man who fluidly presents/behaves as a woman", but is it a binary switch or are there times when it's "both"? I can't find the feeling yet. If the "present self" is either masc or femme, then there is often an instant switch, but like with a borderline personality, sometimes it will switch gradually over days or hours. The question is whether this state has a different feeling or whether "fluid" itself is distinct or a presentation of a twin-spirit. Food for thought.
I think you are on to something here Pamela. One of the big reasons I do not consider myself to be gender fluid is because I hated the ups and downs with switching back and forth between male and female. Neither space ever felt complete right for me.
But for some, they appear to be very happy with switching back and forth and some even indicate that their entire personalities switch when they present as the other gender.
I think those that are gender fluid feel a shift within themselves that sometimes feels more male and other times it feels more female, but there is something that is changing for them on some sort of time scale, days, weeks, months, etc.
'Gender fluid'
Is that this purple stuff?
I'm kind of walking GF. I'm not worrying about which slot I fit in (unless sex is involved) In that case, I like what you brought.
We ARE who we ARE.
Dammit, why is this still an issue?
We are just us, aren't we?
- MM
Uhh, Moose? Some of us like to discuss the meaning of words/phrases, it's okay actually.
Like Nadine, I consider myself gender constant but my presentation is fluid. Neither full male nor full female seem correct to me but mixed presentation, although a happy place for me, is confusing to the world around me. But I could see some people describing what I'm talking about as being gender fluid if they are uncomfortable with the middle. I can only describe it by analogy:
Imagine you're bilingual. Let's say you're fluent in French and English -- spoke both at home since you were a child. People who are truly fluent in a language think in it and my experience with linguists is that they "drop into a groove" and in a weird Newtonian kind of way stay there until something pops them out of it. Now imagine you wake up in the morning after having dreamt in French all night. You wake up thinking of breakfast and your inner monologue is in French, do your daily tasks thinking of them in French. And since nothing pops you out of the French groove, you spend the entire day speaking and thinking in French. But that night you dream in English. And you wake up thinking of breakfast and your inner monologue is in English. You start your day in English, but then a friend from Paris calls you and as soon as you answer the phone, you pop out of the English groove and into the French one.
My life is kind of like that -- I wake up and I might know it's a Jennie day. And I'll go about my day as Jennie start to finish. But the next morning, for whatever reason I wake up Patrick. I go about my day as Patrick until a package arrives in the mail with new clothes, say, and I jump out of the Patrick groove and into Jennie just like switching languages. Internally, I don't have that Patrick/Jennie distinction but I use it so I can talk about the phenomenon. Switching languages doesn't change how you think even though certain languages are better than others for expressing some concepts. Switching presentations doesn't change who I am though some presentations are better than others for certain tasks (Jennie never shovels snow. Patrick is boring at parties.) So I don't know if that's gender fluid in some people's book. It's not in mine. Does it help at all with what you're looking for?
Oh, Moose, you still miss Prince don't you? I like to think of gender fluid as that stuff two happy people get all over each other. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
I don't think anyone here is saying that we aren't who we are. Rather, I think people are trying to figure our unique experiences. Its a very foreign concept to people. The vast majority are wired one way or the other. It's hard to conceive of being male one day and female the next. So they try to understand it the best way they know how, By categorizing and labels. I for one like the term, and I enjoy discussing it because I can help people understand my perspective. Likewise, in trying to explain it to people who are not like myself, I can get a glimpse of what it's like to be them too.
Jennie actually made a very insightful comment with the "multilingual" theory. Generally speaking, I wake up each morning and I'm something. Be it male, female, neither, or some mixture of both, or some third gender. However, certain things can "pop" me out of that and trigger a shift. Sometimes I gradually shift over the course of the day.
@pamela7:
I'd be very interested in how I "come across" or "feel" to you. Am I a woman in a man's body? Am I a woman? Am I in a slow transition? Am I a man? Or do I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body? Or do none of these fit? Please, feel free to answer honestly, you've piqued my curiosity, and I promise to not be offended by your answer.
Yah, the loss of Prince was hard. Such a pretty man, so talented. Especially now that I know what kind of a philanthropist he was...
I *love* nittering over words, just ask my kids.
I got -eyerolls- from my 7 year old grandson this weekend over asking how hard he hit his pound cake.
I'm kind of comfortable in the fact that I'm a girl in a thoroughly male body. I dress 'swishy' even when obviously male. I don't believe I could ever pass (Unlike Jennie, who is pretty damn cute) Most folks just assume I'm gay. While I am thoroughly Bi, I'm not gay. Yet another invisible minority.
I'm 6'2" 245# built like a wedge, and my wife asks if I'm ok if I'm *not* dressing in skirts and frills.
"It's BIG, its SCARY, its been DONE BEFORE" - Tribe
- MM
When I first joined this forum many years ago, I took it that people who straddle the gender divide were called "crossdresser". And then the terms "bigender" or "dualgender" began making an appearance. The term "genderqueer" has been popping in and out of the lexicon too. Over the years, there has been "inbetweener", "pangender", "femulator", "gender-nonconforming" and a slew of others I can't remember at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saikotsu
Now, I use the term "gender fluid" simply because it is there, it is simple and is all-encompassing, it doesn't label or fall in or out of fashion like the other words. It's a term as good as any to describe someone who does not feel a solid, unchangeable, 24/7 gender identity like "male" or "female", specifically it describes someone who fluctuates between the two.
But, Nadine has brought up the idea that a non-binary gender is not necessarily fluid. It does not necessarily fluctuate. Some people always feel internally the same state of in-between no matter how they dress, and so this is not fluid. I agree.
So like, 'static' in the in between status?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
If so, I don't morph much. I need to examine my own labels.
- MM
See my post in thread on a FtM trans, with my experience with a Gender Non-Confirming person.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d-I-was-in-awe
Self referential link?
It isn't like I have not seen US before. I was trying to identify how your view was different and changed my life.
- MM
Indeed, there are some out there who don't fluctuate and who always stay in that in between state. Since I spend the majority of my time feeling in-between or mixed, I think I have a pretty solid idea of what it would be like to experience that, though of course, since I DO fluctuate, I can't be certain.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
@Mechamoose
Hehe. Pound Cake. I think I understand what you were trying to get at now.
My SO is pretty much the same (personality, mood, & interests) whether dressed in feminine garb or not. My SO says there is no gender-ID fluctuation and certainly I detect none. To me, my SO is always the same person. He does not identify as a woman. He does recognizes that he has a male body, but he also knows he is not like men who do not explore femininity. :)
When my SO is dressed I call her by her feminine name. This is out of respect because it just seems weird to call someone by a man's name, who presents as a woman. I used to refer to my SO in this forum all the time as "she", when I thought she did have a female gender identity and when I thought that he would likely transition. But then I discovered this was not the case. I suppose I could refer to my SO with gender neutral pronouns "ze", "hir", but they are awkward to use and difficult to remember consistently. So I refer to my SO as "he" now, except when I describe an activity when she was dressed. Both my SO and I are perfectly OK with this.
So although my SO's internal gender-ID does not change, the presentation does and this is why I characterize my SO as being fluid. The presentation is fluid.
hello all
objectification (hey turns out thats a real word), so i was asked to describe how i felt to be a women, man did i struggle with that, went a few rounds with zooey here and in PMs, so what stood out after was stereotypes and how we objectify and not so much how i identify ? i shared some really deep stuff and i hope she can keep a secret (stereotype)...... and i shared this....
now what came to light to me since that is that i project my male objectification onto my female self.....too fat, too bald, too tall, not feminine enough, voice is too deep, makeup sucks, hairs not right, are my boobs too big, too small, how come my pictures aren't as pretty as the other girls, will i ever feel satisfied right.....what a emotional wreak (think thats another stereotype), women suffer through this on a daily basis, but here is something else, just look in the MtF photo section and most are trying to emulate the very image of a women that make them feel objectified, i do it to and when i do the negative comments are the ones that bother me the most, why so judgemental, right girls. you wore that with that....Quote:
"sometimes i get vibes from one of the transmen in my support group, he is married and has a wife and they have a bambino, but every once in a while i "feel" him glaring, last time he attended he managed to sit next to me, he was not with his family, it was one of the only seats open so dont feel it was intentional, but all night i had an occasional un-comfort and "felt" his stares,
not sure why, but i will say this, ill say with honesty that i do this to women, my reason of coarse is innocent, his may have been too.... im checking out theyre fashion sense and checking for tips on how to put myself together as i find theyre style similar or nicer and think i may try it or the quality of theyre makeup (at least im looking them in the eye then if they catch on) not the usual quick manly glare which im still guilty of too, so this is possibly giving them uber creepy vibes and will do my best to not do so."
but here was another thing i tried to convey, when a women can be just as attractive in jeans and a t-shirt with her hair pulled up to me and i cant even emulate the simpler comfy version of a women, i added the hair as most will be unable to do it and its kinda sexy.
OK heres the part that really pissed me off, my female side objectifies and stereotypes my male side, your fat, your bald, youll never get a pretty girl, your unsuccessful, your too old, is my member too small, do i really satisfy her, how come im not popular, think i made my point and shared a little too much here but i told zooey that i would have trouble describing myself as a male, this is just a sample but still think im fairly entrenched in both camps.
now i do feel i got the better deal as far as my marriage goes, shes a great person and i had a deep dark secret that shamed me.
so back to the photo dept......look at the replies, post a pretty picture and your popular, but share something less attractive and not so many replies, your the same person but everyone wants to be associated with the popular people. (stereotype)
now i generally stay away from the trans section as its real and emotional there, but i popped into the section and read a thread about how your sexuality changes, and another was having trouble scheduling procedures and the replies are nurturing, caring, concerned, very emotional stuff, stuff i think i do in the MtF but in general i see the male linear thinking zo described compared to the fuzzie rush of emotions, concerns, organic help being offered in the trans section.
so there is no flux, there is no flow, there is no measure of "fluid", there is just feelings and reactions......mental hopscotch....my-self, my identity. i feel i described male feelings as well as traits earlier, i also shared some female feelings as well as traits of a female. the fact remains that i felt this from an early age, i was five or six years old when i first realized this is who i am, slipping on my aunties high heels like a dork. it was not crafty marketing or mens sexualitation of women that drew my thoughts to these things. it was merely a preference of those things, i know its weird and hard to understand, am i sexist, im a big bag of testosterone, im attracted to barbie and cant lie about that. (stereotype alert) but a five year old sexist ?
i was a chunky kid, had to shop in the "husky section" (anyone else remember that) so now not only am i not looking at the clothes on the girls side i have to go to an even blander side of the boys side, ewwww.
i may be materialistic but who isnt in this day and age....and hey isnt that a women's prerogative. (stereotype)
so lets put up a new term gender central....
Here's the doozy, in response to all the posts so far: I've been researching and modelling human experience for 16 years now, and by and large no-one thinks about anything unless it's an obsessive focus. So men don't think about being a man, and women neither. People don't really enquire what it's really like to be another person, to really see/feel/touch/think/move inside and out like that other person. We know there are no real "only this is male, only that is female" ways of being. What there are, are these two meta-tribes called "men" and "women" to which we have added all these other labels of variations and degrees.
Without getting into the ultra-private micro-detail of feelings, thoughts - how do we even know we see the same "green"; maybe my green is your blue? - we don't know what it's like to be another "man" or "woman" so how do we know whether we are fluid or really a male or a female? We just "know". Everything comes from that, the rest will be seen to be bs because it's all socially made-up constructs.
xxx :-)
With as much of a 'straight face' as I can manage...
We (blessed) folks get to wander between XX and XY.
That is where the 'fluid' stuff exists. The ability to wander.
We don't have to pick one, we might pick both (I know *I* do)
Humph.
Gender fluid vs, what? Gender rock?
Pthhth.
}:>
- MM
No, as I said before: Gender Static.
So far I've not been aware of any shift in the male/female balance to my thinking. It is hard to quantify, but I would guess somewhere between 90/10 and 70/30, male to female. But, the point is that where ever it is, it hasn't changed.
DeeAnn
The term fluid..... One analogy I have about those who are in the middle or the fence straddlers ( I am one) is that we are like turtles. I was on vacation a couple of years ago in Myrtle Beach. My condo overlooked this nice little lake. I loved watching the turtles. They reminded me of being gender fluid.... They would swim around, then climb out walk around, then go jump back in the lake. Turtles need both dry land and water.
Ask a cis gender person what it is like to be the gender they are, and they can't really come up with much of an answer. Or what is it like to be masculine or feminine. Usually they will just say, they just are. For us though, A lot of us will come up with all kinds of thoughts, and can come up with a lot of adjectives to describe what it is like to be masculine and feminine. Because we are both, We can differentiate it in ways cis gender people cannot. For some of us, there is a state of both simultaneously. Many of us however, tend to lean to one side of the gender fence or the other. Sometimes we need to be on dry land, other times, swimming in the water. Each of us finding the balance of how much time is needed for both.
Fair description Gendermutt. It took me many years to understand that I was androgynous and I call it Gender fluid for short an easier explanation. I thought Jennies answer was great as it is something that is so hard to explain. Many of us have different views on gender fluid and yet we are so similar. But a CIS person will not understand. I try to explain it to my SO as I go though it and she is getting better at seeing that I am or not fem. But she says that she does not understand it. I wrote that switch thing a while back and she studied it and reflected that I had no emotion in it. LOL well some of the things that Zooey said in her dump was that the female mind is so flexible and things on many things at once. But on threads some of us have reflected that and we do reflect female views often as well as male views. A cis person would never understand us. I do try to say nice things and that is typically a female way in how we tell a girl that she looks great.