What I feel is we`re the `ugly` GF that no group seems to want or embrace? In a nutshell?
Printable View
What I feel is we`re the `ugly` GF that no group seems to want or embrace? In a nutshell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
and visa versa....
In my opinion that is a gross misrepresentation. There are a few people who having started by cross-dressing will later go on to address their Gender Dysphoria. The so-called joke is a way of mocking those members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
However, when you interact with any group of people it is better to try to understand how they use certain phrases than to expect the majority to accept your own (entirely different) definition. That is true whether you are talking to plumbers and want to redefine the tools of their trade, or to IT staff, or to cross-dressers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
There are published definitions of how certain words are used in the context of these forums, whilst you are free to hold an alternate position on the use of those words in your private life, there is nothing to be gained by insisting that your alternate definition should be accepted by the whole group. WOuld you castigate the authors of a dictionary just because you didn't want to accept their definition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
I could find no definitions as used by the Forums, so I looked up the ultimate source of definitions - the Oxford English Dictionary - the standard dictionary of the English language. It defines transgender as "Denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex". As my personal identity at no point departs from my birth sex I am not transgender. If the OED says that, any other definition is in Humpty Dumpty territory where you can invent your own definitions - that does not mean they apply to other people.
My complaint here is that even if other people want to use different definitions, I object to them being imposed on me. Dressing as a beetle does not make you a beetle. Women who find their partners are cross-dressing are often traumatised. From her point of view there is a yawning gulf between thinking her husband likes to wear a dress and thinking her husband wants to be a woman. He claims he doesn't want to be a woman - he is just a crossdresser. So she searches on line for crossdressing and finds this forum. I mean that's what they're called - they must know what they are talking about. This forum insists that crossdressers are all transgender so she looks that up and sees that it means he has a female gender identity so he must be lying. Thanks for that. She looks a bit more at the site and finds that this Forum, called (remember) crossdressers.com, includes people taking hormones or have even completed their transition as well as people who dress as women and then want to attract men ... but hardly any mention of men who are 'just' crossdressing (apart from denial of their existence) on a site called what he says he is. Now she is really scared.
We are a cross-dressing Forum which appears to be intolerant of cross-dressing for its own sake as opposed to gender identity. We do not exist. I cross clothing conventions but my identity does not cross anything gender-related so my dressing is not cross (trans) gender. I say again that clothes do not have gender, people do. Cross-dressing does NOT equate to cross-gender. Those who insist it does do not just have a different opinion - in linguistic terms they are wrong, which is not the same as having a different opinion. I am mystified why there is such insistence on making crossdressers transgender - why does this matter to you to the extent you want to overrule those affected by this?
The threads on this topic make it clear I am not alone. This Forum is not called crossgender it is called crossdressing - how bizarre that it absolutely insists on confusing the two. There is no place here for those of us who are just into the crossdressing despite the site's title. The transitioning TG members tell us they are not crossdressing - they are dressing appropriately. So they are not crossdressing yet they are on a crossdressing forum - where they are not only tolerated but welcomed whereas we who are actually 'just' crossdressing are not even recognised or tolerated as a valid category - you insist we are something else entirely! The word Transvestite is linguistically more correct than Transgender in describing cross-dressers but most of us hate it - I know I do. I do not hate the word transgender I just do not want it applied to me for the simple reason that it doesn't.
I am not 'out'. Currently if my crossdressing is revealed people will assume I want to be a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a woman but I don't. I think the impact on my friends and colleagues (and thus on me) would be considerably reduced if there was more (any?) recognition of the existence of men who 'just' like dressing as women for its own sake rather than because of gender issues. Currently the existence of such a category is invisible so for most it does not exist. With such invisibility it is hardly surprising that society does not distinguish between crossdressing and crossgender, but a web site CALLED crossdressers.com - come on! We expect better.
Susan, Sadly, your post sums it up pretty well.
Susan -- You are totally entitled to define yourself. Just as everyone here is. If anyone posts a message that explicitly says you're wrong in your self-assessment, report the post and the moderators will handle it. If you object to the fact that they post philosophical thoughts that don't align to your views, go read another thread or bring some evidence and engage in discussion. But you don't get to impose your definition on anyone else either, and that's what it really sounds like you're doing when you rail on about the makeup of the crossdresser's forum not conforming to your definition of crossdressing. Reasonable people can disagree. Be one of them.
i did a web search for "transgender" and wiki topped the list....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender
i preformed a google search for "phobia".... " wiki" was third on the list....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia
ive always felt comfortable here however ive claimed to identify here for the most part,
when folks are adamant to profess theyre sexuality and gender when the topic comes up it confuses me, they dont like labels but are now stipulating to be part of a sub-category of a label, "hetero crossdresser" "bi curious when dressed crossdresser" "manly man crossdressers" ect..
some will covet for the day they can leave the confines of the "closet", others boast of how they "pass" in the wild, some assure us we can all venture into the land of the "Normals" as long as we fit theyre standards, but at the end of the day we all have a commonality, we deviate from what society in general considers "Normal" gender expression....
for me it feels nice to belong to a group, a family so to say....their will always be divisiveness, turmoil, pettiness in families....but at the end of the day family comes first, family has your back.....why fight our battles alone when we are part of a community, an LGB"T" community and the benefits it will afford us.
my opinion....yours may differ.....something to think about over coffee.....
and when our GFs, SOs, Friends and family google transgender they will see we are part of a broad group....a community....
here is what i found when i web searched "crossdresser"
https://www.google.com/search?q=crossdresser&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEw jX84SqhKXXAhVLMSYKHRcOC4QQ_AUICSgA&biw=1280&bih=63 9&dpr=1
click on the instagram listing....
Mykell -- I'm not clear on why you have the search for "phobia." Could you explain the point you're trying to make? I can figure out why you chose "transgender" (dueling definitions.) And I presume the web search for "crossdresser" was to illustrate the breadth of the community.
You don't need to look very far, they are a sticky note in the Introductions and Reintroductions section.Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
They are community definitions. Your anger appears to be directed at everyone who agrees to use those definitions to interact with people in this community.Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
Incidentally, have you ever considered how language evolves? This happens by people using terms in a specific manner whether or not the dictionary defines them in another context.
Did you do a search on crossdressers.com? If so you would have found this thread: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...-AbbreviationsQuote:
Originally Posted by mykell
It took longer than I thought, but we have arrived at the point in every thread about labels where we start bickering over what each one means. Before I leave in fatigued dismay (again) I'll lob my two cents into the fray...
Susan, the term "transgender" has a conventional meaning in the community. It is not the one the OED seems to provide. It is a mistake to be so pedantic, leaning on one, rather out of step authority. The fact of the matter is that, according to American Psychiatric Association, crossdressing is a form of "gender expression" placing it under the umbrella provided by even the narrow definition you cited.
My point is (again) that the complaint the OP came here with, and the contention that has arisen since then (predictably, in the latter case) stems from a self-centered view of others; "If you don't fit my definition of <insert label here> your're <insert some other label here>. All too often, that view is expressed with derogatory tone or context. We should stop doing that.
Social phobia, when the situation is feared as the person is worried about others judging them. so it seemed some are concerned with guilt by association....i feel no matter how you define your "self" we are stronger if we show solidarity in numbers....i have learned to favor inclusion for this reason, i dont feel superior or judge anyone as being less significant if they dont define the way i may but feel we have a better voice (safety) if we unite with each other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
i have seen that link Rianna, but today most will look up info on the interweb and i wanted to point out that standards of the past are becoming less relevant, does not make it wrong....we just have many more resources for friends and family and loved ones to go to which is what seemed to drive some folks objections to standing under the umbrella with us. so unfortunately crossdressers.com will not be theyre first choice....Quote:
I could find no definitions as used by the Forums, so I looked up the ultimate source of definitions - the Oxford English Dictionary - the standard dictionary of the English language.
hope i cleared up what i failed to convey previously....just wanted to point out how creepy and devious some info on the web portrays us....
Susan,
Why don't you look at it as the name above the shop says ," Crossdressers.com " but when you enter the shop it has many more departments to cater for different customers needs, you only need to visit the counter that sells your goods , you have that choice, other customers or SAs (Mods ) may suggest other departments but it they don't fit your needs you can walk away .
The important point is you live in a free country with free speech, you can visit the forum freely to give and take help and information. Some countries don't allow their population the same free choices
The point about wives/partners coming here are offered their own help section where they can clear up points about their CDing partners , no matter where they are in the CDing/TG spectrum. We are all very lucky having this freedom and a fantastic forum to help us along the road .
Can one honestly find what a CD'er can go through as trivial?
Yes, I suppose experiencing a pervasive sense of embarrassment/shame/guilt, even to the point of hating one's self, is "trivial."
I suppose being a prisoner in one's own home, locked away in a room behind drawn curtains, because one's wife doesn't like it/know about it, is "trivial."
I suppose spending most of one's days SO-less & alone, because the GG's one tries to date run fast in the other direction once they learn one is a CD'er, is "trivial."
I suppose being belittled, harassed, threatened, beat up & even ostracized, is "trivial."
I suppose having one's wife filing for divorce, and going through with it, partly or solely because of one's CD'ing, is "trivial."
And I suppose one implying seriously contemplating suicide, is "trivial."
Because I have seen all of that here on this forum, and more, in my relatively short time here, as it pertains to CD'ers.
And that kind of stuff is a huge deal, at least in my book.
One also needs to keep in mind that if any given CD'er "ramps up" their activity in terms of frequency & degree & openness -- you know, perhaps like a TS would need to do? :strugglin --, I can guarantee that the CD'er would see a whole lot more of above.
Of course, I won't mention the fact that a number of TS's do actually experience a pretty positive outcome, without losing many, if any, friends, family members, jobs & SO's.
Anyway, I believe the OP has a valid right in feeling angry, frustrated, misunderstood, etc.
Nicole, you have to understand that the documentaries you're watching are conveying opinions by only a few people. The TS on these shows are venting how they feel without trying to understand how CDs feel.
I've hung out with mixed groups on many occasions face to face with TS, CDs and drag queens and there isn't any of this bickering going on in the real world.
Maybe we're all much more civil in the real world of support groups and TG get togethers. Or maybe your experiences have been much different than mine.
You say you've never met other TG folks and it sounds like there may be more paranoia in Ireland than there is in my area, or there's a lack of someone taking the initiative to get TG groups together.
You would be totally welcome in the circles that I've been in for the last 5 years. The only exception would be some gays that look down on all TG people.
It COULD be worse Susan. U could be a "fetish" CD like me. And, have to deal with THIS!:doh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by laurababe
I totally feel what you are saying. I do identify as transgender because I love to present as female, but could best be described as a crossdresser. Although I struggle with the terms because I don’t FEEL exactly as the terms are defined. Not sure if that makes sense, but yes, I too don’t feel like I fit into any of the nice boxes.
Susan, from where I sit there are more people like you on this site then like me. The way I see it you and Sherry are more alike than sherry and me. Basically straight men wearing women's clothes, at least in this section. You don't like a label, fine I get that. To think that you are a minority on this site I don't get. The way you feel is how you feel. People, IMO, tend to see things from where they are and not from the other persons perspective. As I have stated before I like the term transgender as I am out living openly. I find I'm treated better, people don't need to know if I have or am planning to have any surgeries. All I want is people to accept me for me. For me the term gives me cover, and permission to dress how I want.
I find myself increasingly troubled by this 'discussion' which is more of an attempt to overrule me than a discussion. The name above the shop that has many departments - fair enough - it is just that there is no department for 'just' crossdressers - the shop refuses to acknowledge our existence outside the term 'transgender'.
Language evolution would be a valid argument if it applied. We have a language where 'hot' and 'cool' have developed meanings that have much in common, neither of them related to temperature. But here we have the equivalent of people using the term 'hot' to describe what is merely lukewarm. That is not language development - it is misrepresentation.
If a restaurant advertised hot food and instead served lukewarm food, it could not use language development or its own personal definitions as a defence. What it says sin the dictionary, especially the OED, has huge relevance in how language is used. No matter how YOU define them, crossdressing and transgender have different meanings.
Why we crossdressers are being conscripted by the transgenders so assertively is a mystery to me. Why do they need us to validate themselves? And why does the site allow it? Just as it is bizarre and inaccurate to assert that "all crossdressers are gay" it is to assert that "all crossdressers are transgender". Nothing wrong with any of these categories, but why insist on applying them against people's will? They are not just labels. There is a fundamental psychological difference between a man in a dress who sees himself as a man and one who sees himself (herself) as a woman, and that difference is critical to many partners.
Partners who have just encountered their man in a dress will be distressed. They will be looking for information and that information needs to be right. A website like this has a responsibility to the men and women affected by this issue to help clarify it, not muddy the waters. In such situations, the partner will probably already be suspected of telling lies. The definitions applied here will help confirm the assertions that they are 'just dressing up' to be lies - when they are not. Lives can be affected, possibly ruined by this.
I know I have had support from other members, but only a few, and they are outnumbered by those who insist I am wrong. So perhaps there are just a few of us. I have thought of resigning from the site over what I perceive to be misrepresentation of some crossdressers as transgender. Instead of doing so I am trying to do something about it so that there is actually somewhere people like me will be able to go for advice. I may no longer need such advice but others do. I know of nowhere else they can go. Currently they are getting slanted advice (accompanied by considerable insistence) and I can't even understand why.
I think i saw the documentary that nicole was referring to. They were separating transgender as if it were something that shouldn't be looked down on and superior from Crossdressing which is for fetish drag queens. It embraces the stereotype that there is something wrong with crossdressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CynthiaD
It fails to understand the spectrum of CDing.
There are those on the verge of transition, There are those in the middle, There are those who just wear lingerie, There are those who often fully dress up, There are those (me) who only do that about once every 2 months just because it takes up a lot of time.
Call me just a Crossdresser. Just don't mess with my dresses. :hugs:
Angie
I am a crossdresser. I crossdress. I wear the clothes of the opposite gender. When I do this I remain me. As me, I don't change personality, I don't change my behaviour. I have no wish or desire ro go any further. I am happy as I am. However I do what I do because it statisfies the girly urges that are within me. I understand where this urge comes from and I understand that for me, the female aspect in all of this is very important to me. It therefore also seems logical to me that what I do goes across the genders. Another word for cross is trans. I am happy to accept this. This works for me. I can also see though that for some people they may feel in thinking this way, that they are being linked in with a different group of people for whom the cause and effect, and the desired outcome, might be wholly different. I can see why this could make some people uncomfortable. Such discomfort is real and should be respected. At the end of the day, the one thing that most of us, on this site have in common is that we all wear women's clothing and, for the most part we enjoy it. The reson we do it, the how we look when we do it, the names we call oursleves, the sub group that we may, or may not, fit into is all irrelevant to the group and personal to the individual. What we should do is celebrate that one thing we have in common, women's clothes.
Not really. Insisting that one narrow "definition", taken from a single static and very generalized reference, is the only accurate one is the misrepresentation. Again... crossdressing is, by anyone's definition, an expression of gender. Which means it fits under even the narrow definition that you have chosen to cite for the term "transgender". The APA recognizes that, which is why they use the term the way they do. By your own admission, the community (by and large) recognizes the same thing, which is why they use the term the way they do. We are not attacking those who, like you, are misapplying the term "transgender". We are trying to point out that this intransigent insistence on misapplying the term is needlessly confusing and divisive, at times when that is that last thing someone needs to hear in a discussion in response to the question "What am I?" In virtually any case, it is accurate to say...Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
"You are transgender. There are many like you here under that umbrella term, but no one just like you. There are many terms applied to groups of us who share certain traits (crossdresser, gender-fluid, transsexual, etc.), but because we are all different, this is where those labels start to break down. So pick one of those more specific labels if you like, or don't. The only thing you have to call yourself is transgender, because that is what we... all of us, are."
People will have different ways of labeling others some of which are vile and rude but generally it does not happen here as anyone doing so would be removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
The site has evolved over years with non binary being our latest addition. We are here to help everyone. GG women joining here always get told about the FAB section so they know they are not alone.Quote:
We are a cross-dressing Forum which appears to be intolerant of cross-dressing for its own sake as opposed to gender identity. We do not exist. I cross clothing conventions but my identity does not cross anything gender-related so my dressing is not cross (trans) gender. I say again that clothes do not have gender, people do. Cross-dressing does NOT equate to cross-gender. Those who insist it does do not just have a different opinion - in linguistic terms they are wrong, which is not the same as having a different opinion. I am mystified why there is such insistence on making crossdressers transgender - why does this matter to you to the extent you want to overrule those affected by this?
The threads on this topic make it clear I am not alone. This Forum is not called crossgender it is called crossdressing - how bizarre that it absolutely insists on confusing the two. There is no place here for those of us who are just into the crossdressing despite the site's title. The transitioning TG members tell us they are not crossdressing - they are dressing appropriately. So they are not crossdressing yet they are on a crossdressing forum - where they are not only tolerated but welcomed whereas we who are actually 'just' crossdressing are not even recognised or tolerated as a valid category - you insist we are something else entirely! The word Transvestite is linguistically more correct than Transgender in describing cross-dressers but most of us hate it - I know I do. I do not hate the word transgender I just do not want it applied to me for the simple reason that it doesn't.
I am not 'out'. Currently if my crossdressing is revealed people will assume I want to be a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a woman but I don't. I think the impact on my friends and colleagues (and thus on me) would be considerably reduced if there was more (any?) recognition of the existence of men who 'just' like dressing as women for its own sake rather than because of gender issues. Currently the existence of such a category is invisible so for most it does not exist. With such invisibility it is hardly surprising that society does not distinguish between crossdressing and crossgender, but a web site CALLED crossdressers.com - come on! We expect better.
I am old enough to remember when supermarkets only sold groceries. Now they sell almost anything.
We are here to support everyone who has any contact with crossdressing in whatever form that may take be if family member best friend neighbour, teacher etc.
The trouble with assumptions is that they are not always right.
The general public has more trouble with us because we are so diverse as a community. This makes it hard for them to understand us.
If you see me walking down a street and then have to try and label me it cant be easy, am I CD/TS /GQ /DQ.
All we can do is our best but no one can be right 100% of the time.
Wow I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Nichole started this post talking about not belonging, fitting in, loneliness.
So you are saying I need a membership card that says I'm a crossdresser to be here. And beyond that my existence threatens you. Really . Did I read this right or I'm I wrong?
Nicole, I haven't read the rest of comments except the first one that offers you a hug, and offer you one too and my friendship through email chat or whatever form you would want.
But let me write something here:
I was a Christian pastor as well my wife. I'm not going g to discuss a out teology here but I'm not longer a pastor neither a Christian.
I had so many wonderful and supernatural experiences with who I used to call God and my final definition of it (who cares if is she or he or whatever limited antropomorfos way we could see) is love.
There's no 2 leaves of a tree exactly the same as well snow flakes or whatever we see in nature. So diversity is the rule. Neither twins are exactly the same.
So my point is why to look belonging to a group or a label?
I love that LGBT movement has a flag that is a rainbow, the grades of colors on a rainbow are unlimited the same as among us as Crossdressers can find similarities but no one's experience is the same as other.
So we human beings look for labels, pairs, group as we are to belong for a lack of identity and in our case that's critically hard.
Who or what we are? Man? Weird man? Woman in a man's body? Just someone to enjoy dressing as women? Who cares? You are you, even you don't need a name to call yourself because you are you.
Stop your search and just be you without shame, fears, and be proud on who you are,
There's nothing wrong you can do if you love, there's nothing to fear if you love and finally you're so loved, believe it and live for it.
You don't need to see or even feel the Air you breath, you just breath it, so the same with love and freedom, just enjoy it and live everyday to full..
Don't let the angry control your being but let love does it.
Love, kisses and hugs for you
Very well said Vanessa, thanks.
i've yet to see a post where fulltime, or even near fulltime, crossdressers on dating and finding female mates --the same (quality) one would chat up in male attire... in an everyday settings, and not some LGBTQ safe zone.
i've only have read on dubious, or probable hazardous, encounters.
i'm older, just shy of 50, still in the highs of my career. being divorced, i am not looking for celibacy.
overwhelmingly is the case that retirement and aged ambiguity/androgyny is the freedom of the crossdresser. i see that as a bit anti-climatic... and a long way to go.
though i am glad for the legal coverage of LGBTQ, i'm not transgender --which is likely why they are a bit resentful, along w/ their own hierarchy of "worthiness"
This discussion is actually not about you but about the original poster. Your repeated assertion that people should not use the accepted terminology of this site is your attempt to impose your point of view in a discussion about someone else rather than, as you claim, an attempt to overrule you.Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
Dear Nicole,
The great thing about this forum is that everyone has their own opinion on each thread that is posted. Individual voices are a great way to sort through your own issues, and to be able to find the words that comfort you. Like anything in this world, you can embrace it or ignore what was said. I read every comment on here and I can feel the personal emotion that each written word has from each reply.
Best wishes for a wonderful day.
Rebecca
I've said it before. The word transgender has been confusing. Many medical professionals don't even know the different definitions. Like many words in the dictionary, transgender has more than one meaning. Many people think it's tantamount to the word transexual because that's how it's used so often. It also has to do with gender expression or gender identity. Next, it's an umbrella term for anyone from transvestites to transexuals which adds to the confusion.
The first time someone on this site told me I was transgender I didn't know what to think. That was a few years ago so I've had time to ponder that notion. I enjoy seeing myself dressed in women's cloths which is another gender expression or identity. 5 years ago was the first time I've dressed in public for others to see that expression.
Also transgender is an adjective (a descriptive word) not a noun (person, place or thing). So there's no reason to get one's CD panties in a bunch over the use of the word. As a CD you are expressing something about the opposite sex which is a transgender act or behavior. It's not necessarily who you are. Why can't we just relax and have fun?
I know what you mean Susan, as a newish member on these forum I have noticed there seem to be some "unwritten rules" about how you are supposed to act. I have made a couple posts coming from the "man's" perspective of CDing, but get shutdown from the more "senior" members (who to me, seem like the full TS type. Full time Dressers, people wanting to transition etc) of this forum because I am apparently being manipulative, being called a lier etc. They always sticking up for the GG SOs feelings instead of sticking up for your fellow CDers.
I know you are trying to do the "right thing", but remember for many of us, especially newer members, this is a learning experience and our own personal adventure and we want to be able to discuss these things without judgement. Remember, we are all MEN underneath these clothes. If you believe you are not a man, but a woman, are these really the right forums to be posting on?
Kas, I've looked at some of your other posts and I've gotta say you have a lot to learn. Post 10 in this thread for example shows that you don't really know what a transexual is. And your definition of transvestite isn't complete either. I believe the senior members that are shutting you down are just much more informed about TG issues than you and other noobs to this forum are. There are rules but they the are written under FAQs and rules at the top of the page.
You're right that this is a learning experience but we aren't all men under these clothes. There are GGs, and transmen members here for one thing. And some (most) MtF transexuals find it offensive to be called men. I'm not shutting you down, just letting you know that you might want to learn by observing a little more.
xNicoleX,
Only you can self-identify. You , and only you, can determine where you fit. And if you are like me, you may not have figured out where yet.
I do know one thing for sure, I am not a cisgender male. And at this point, that's enough.
Actually, we also have written rules and you'd better start paying attention to those as well. I recommend reviewing the section titled "Respect and Tolerance of Other Forum Members" soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
You may be. You will certainly find others on this forum who are as well. But not all are. You will not gain respect if you don't give it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
Every person here has a right to post (even you.) If you want to start a thread for people ONLY like yourself, you can start one and specify that you only want folks who feel they are cis-male crossdressers (or whatever you consider yourself to be) to respond. It's that simple. Moderators will enforce reply restrictions on any thread that calls for them in the Original Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
That's fine I understand. I just had the assumption that this forum was dedicated for CDers and CD related things (because of the website name crossdressers.com), not a general transsexual forum. My bad. Maybe I'll just stick to the fashion section. ��Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
As has been stated in several posts in this thread the site is open to everyone who has an interest in this other side of life, including family, friends and admirers. As I stated in this thread or another one started by Susan, the majority of members here are in fact self identified crossdressers, which is a broad spectrum all by itself. For ease of communication and using accepted definitions, accepted for this side of life, "Transgender" is used as the umbrella term, whether some like it or not, and many do not like it. Umbrella includes all of us, period. This is also not a general transsexual forum. They, Transsexuals - identity different from their birth assigned sex) are actually a smaller segment here with an active posting population that continues to grow and shrink over time. We also recently added the Non-Binary section, which is a growing segment under the umbrella.
I have read just about every thread on this forum over the last few years. In my opinion, there is very little bashing of anyone here going on. When true bashing is found the Mods and Admins have dealt with it quickly. When if comes to differences of opinions, that is very alive and well here. Many threads get sidetracked by an off topic comment and seem to deteriorate very quickly after that. One of the popular contentious type treads deals with labels, from what they mean, whether they are good or bad, necessary or overly controlling, and finally who is included under the different labels and their definitions. Because one disagrees with another does not mean that they are bashing or whatever that person. Yes, some may do that but they are in the very small minority.
Regarding labels as I have seen it working here: Each person can self identify and use or ignore applicable labels as they apply or not to them. However, based on that umbrella terminology concept, you may identify yourself one way, and those following the current definition may say, "Fine, you call yourself "X", and I based on the site's definitions, will consider you "Y". If someone is fishing they are a fisherman/person in that moment, whether they are adamant that they are only a golfer. I respect what you call yourself as your choice, but I will continue to use definitions accepted here when discussing topics around a label/definition, not necessarily yours. If everyone has their own definition, then no one could communicate on certain topics here, and that would be a shame. You are new here, but this site covers all the relevant and not so relevant topics and more,and many times we repeat the same conversations as new members join the site.
I hope you understand that the majority here in this thread talking about the site's accepted definitions, really want you and others to stay to stay, participate and enjoy your time here. We can always learn something new, and new blood keeps bringing new topics or different twists on old topics that many times result in very interesting, informative and great learning situations that permit many of us to grow and sometimes even question our own earlier cast in concrete opinions.
My only recommendation is to give this site a chance over time to see if it is a good fit for you. If not, then maybe it will be time to continue your search for a better site that better meets your needs.
Kas, look again at the title of this site:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
Every member has a right to be here and to post in the open forums so long as they respect the rules. That does not make itQuote:
The #1 community for crossdressers, their family and friends
Significant Others also have every right to be here (reread my first sentence) and they are not "all MEN".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
I sincerely hope that your words are not betraying transphobia.
When I said we are all men, I was referring to us crossdressers... You're taking what I am saying way too seriously. OBVIOUSLY GGs are not men and I have no issue with family and friends of CDers on here so stop getting so hung up over that one sentence... The problem is that the members on this site seem to be from 2 different camps. One camp are guys that like being a guy, but dress up in clothes to feel nice/sexy/pretty/cute occasionally. Then there are the people who CDing is their full-time life. The issue is that the views from both of these camps are very different. For example, a 60 yo, gay, never-had-a-partner-before, retired, full-time CDer is not going to be able to relate to somebody like me for example, a 28 yo, straight, work full-time, engaged, part-time dresser. I am having a very hard time on this forum trying to express my opinions without being told I am wrong.
Transphobic? Wow everyone's got it in for me today... I consider myself transgender, so the answer is NO!
the STRENGTH of this site is that it brings people from disparate backgrounds, each with their own understanding, into one place where they can interact discover their similarities and differences and learn from each other. You may be surprised, when you get a chance to see through other's eyes, what you discover about yourself. This place was never meant to be an echo chamber where you hear only your own opinion comfortably reinforced over and over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
So just because I'm 61 you don't think I can remember that happened a few years ago. Or when I was your age on top of the world. Then this isn't about me. I'll take a guess that what you are experiencing has more to do with personalities, and everyone is different. I'm not trying to insult anyone here but some people are uppity, middle of the road, down to earth, whatever. That's just life.
Here is an example. There is a local transgender support group that meets every week like thirdy minutes from me. I go sometimes. So I was told this new gay bar opened up in that town by a friend, he didn't know the name his brother in law told him . I have been trying to get the name from my friend. I thought I would ask at the meeting. Now they meet at the LGBT center. I was told "we don't go to bars" WTH I thought. I was asking for a friend that is gay. He has been down lately . I don't go to gay bars. I told him I would go and be his wingman. Some people are very quick to judge, but then they are go if to judge you anyway.
I find its better just to ignore them. I my case I see no reason to go to anymore of those meetings. Be sides when I need support I turn to my friends in the real world.
Hi Jean,
I meant no offence by the age. I picked 60 randomly as an example.
I am yet to meet another CDer in the real world. Too bad you're all the way over the other side of the world or I'd come out with you!
I think you're right. I guess I just need to take a back-seat approach for a while.
Everyone should realize that a TV "documentary" is just one person's opinion on a subject. The difference between any one of us and that person is, that person has the means to produce and air his/her opinions to the public while the rest of us do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by redtea
I suspect many of us have seen "documentaries" of men who transitioned and then changed their minds and de-transitioned. Is that the way it should be or do some of us have other views?
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
And that is incorrect. A person who wears women's clothing from time to time is not necessarily transgender and that's the point many of us are trying to make. When you call us names, you are insulting us. Is that your intention?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly
I believe Krisi caught you, Aunt Kelly. ;) When we sit and talk in the abstract about others or "the community" we can agree among ourselves that "we're all transgender." But when a person speaks of themselves and says "I am not transgender" you have to respect that. It's very similar to disrespecting someone's pronouns to tell a person who believes they are not transgender that they are. We can lead them to water, etc.
Your view (and mine too) is that it's hard to understand how a person can own hundreds of dollars worth of pads, forms, wigs, etc and routinely put on makeup and women's clothes and still somehow think they're not transgender. But we can't tell them how they feel.
This post grew longer and more convoluted than originally intended but I think that it covers my feelings of much that has run tbrough this thread. Please bear with me.
Strange as it may seem, we have a similar thing with labels and naming in the UK. The UK is made up from four nations, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Together they form, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You have to realise at this point that Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, as it is part of the island of Ireland.
(The Irish situatuon gets really complicated so the rest of this post relates to GB, or England, Scorland and Wales).
Now, basically, if you are a citizen of England, Scotland or Wales then you will be a UK national. You would also be a Brit. You would also be English, Scottish or Welsh. Now, for many people being of the country of their birth is more important to them, and so they will self identify as being of there, English, Scottish or Welsh, and most definitely not British. These people may not like to be thought of as being British, they are specifically English, Scottish or Welsh. A Scot may rail againt being a Brit, even though to travel out from the country, they will need a UK passport. England, Scotland and Wales are also part of the island of Britain, which is what ultimately makes us all British. This situation gets worse as, around the World, there are many non-UK people who do not know about the nuances of British identity and lump all British people into being English, which is bad for Welsh and Scottish people, whether or not, they then go on to identify themselves as Brits.
I suppose what all this goes to show is that there are labels and labels and labels. And that the label that we give ourselves is valid and should be respected, but that may be different from the label that the outside world would use and understand. And that too has to be understood and respected. It just goes to show that naming things, even naming ourselves, is a minefield.
Charlotte, what a great example of what is happening here. I especially like this paragraph, and I hope that Kas, Sue, Krisi and others do get it.
"I suppose what all this goes to show is that there are labels and labels and labels. And that the label that we give ourselves is valid and should be respected, but that may be different from the label that the outside world would use and understand. And that too has to be understood and respected. It just goes to show that naming things, even naming ourselves, is a minefield."
I only had time to read half the responses, but it is all about the label and the semantics and emotional baggage different people tie to it. We, as well as the various societies we each live in, base the meaning of a word not on a dictionary or a well researched evaluation, but on what others have said or heard. The word transgender is often used in the media when referring to the more visible elements of TG spectrum, the transsexuals (yes - another label which may mean different things to you). So the public thinks they are the same. Those of us who know better, may use the label crossdresser to separate us from the other part of the spectrum that others know - the transsexuals. So while we may consider ourselves trans (transgender) and be accurate to well informed people, the meaning to the general public is different and that is your source of anger-but it is nothing you did and until a visible educator of CDing vs TS comes forth to explain to the public, we remain misunderstood.
Hugs, Ellen
So now we're going to decide who is transgender and who is not based on the cost of their feminine "stuff"? Where is the line? One hundred dollars? Five hundred dollars? A thousand or more dollars? And spent over what period of time? All at once or spread out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
I don't think that's going to work because some of us have more disposable income than others. Perhaps we should know the percentage of a person's income that's spent on feminine stuff.
Really, the problem here is that we judge people based on our own personal experiences and our own environment. Your signature line goes like this:
This makes you very different from me so it's not surprising that you would look at the subject of crossdressing and crossdressers differently than I or some other people would. It would be nice if we could "all get along" but until we allow each other to be ourselves, that's not going to happen. And if some long term members "bully" the newer members, there will soon be nothing but the bullies left on this forum. It would be easy for a new member to post a few questions, get shut down by a bunch of negative replies and decide this is not the place for them.Quote:
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
What you are missing is that this forum is not the "outside world". Far from it. The outside world puts us all in one category and puts a very negative label on all of us. In the outside world, men wear men's clothing and women wear women's clothing. In the outside world, if you have a penis, you are a male. If you have a vagina, you are a female. In the outside world, there is no "in between" and you can't change from one to the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieSF
That's the outside world.
Really? Is that what you got out of my post? Nothing about how we (the bullies, apparently) have to accept others (like you) at their word? :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
Owning, wearing and using that stuff is a kind of temporary transformation. To me, the act of emulating a female is a transgender act. But the definition of the word "transgender" is too ambiguous for many of us to use pertaining to our selves. It seems it's mistakenly very attached to the word transexual for many crossdressers to want to be associated with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
Those that don't crossdress with female emulation in mind (wearing only a few garments) might still identify as the opposite sex or might not.
I guess I'm just repeating what I've already posted. I don't see why their has to be any anger over this. Confusing would be a better thesis IMO.
So after 98 amount of posts and 2900+ of views discussing,
what we can say and cant say.
what we are and are not.
what we want to be, but cant be.
We are gay , we are not gay.
Some are gay, some arent.
Some dress all the time, some dont.
Some want to dress all the time but cant.
Some would dress more if they were younger or prettier.
Other than that,
how's everyone doing.