Women DO dress for women. We men don't care. Hell, they could show up naked and most of us wouldn't mind a bit.
And my wife fully knows that, even if she rarely shows up naked. (sigh)
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Women DO dress for women. We men don't care. Hell, they could show up naked and most of us wouldn't mind a bit.
And my wife fully knows that, even if she rarely shows up naked. (sigh)
It takes more than a question on a forum to insult me. A lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHiddenMe
So despite 3 women, and adding my self there which makes 4, you are still insisting that they DO? Wonderful. The same way that crossdressers dress for men, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy
Speak for yourself, not for men. My experience says otherwiseQuote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy
Everything that Reine said, ditto.
Off Topic, but I find it very interesting how easy it is for some people to invalidate others experiences, while claiming that their own experiences are the true facts.
4 women say "No, that doesn't happen." Others say "It does." So whose life experience takes precedent? Is it not fair to say that we don't all know the same people, and that both viewpoints are valid? And, just for the record, I don't recall saying "All women...", or "All Cd's...", and If I did, then I misspoke.
If ten of the people who responded to this thread went to the same restaurant, and ordered the same meal, you would get varied reviews. Some might say it was the best they had and that the service was A-1, and the price reasonable. And some might say the food was awful, the service terrible, and the price astronomical. So who is right? Who is wrong?
Jodie, dressers here are speaking on behalf of women, and the only 4 persons concerned (GGs) who responded opposed what was said (this assumption that women dress for women, to compete or whatever). Scientifically speaking, the experimental facts are not backing the theory so far. When you speak about "life experience", it is a woman's life experience, right? In which case, to answer your question, yes, I consider that what women have to say about their own life experience beats, by and large, what us, dressers, have to say about it. Do you not agree?
Diane, let me see if I have this right. Bear with me, I'm stupid.
Four people with a certain anatomy can speak on behalf of ALL people with a similar anatomy, and therefore, any other point of view is invalid, if made by anyone with a different anatomy. Is this correct? I am asking, because I wish to learn.
And if it is correct, then I apologize for wasting everyone's time.
Everything, literally, that you need to know on the subject was in Reine's post. TL:DR, self-assured women don't. Women who have self-esteem issues for whatever reason for whatever amount of time might occasionally do. Sometimes even self-assured women might dress for attention but only when they are looking for a sexual partner. But ALL women dressing to impress women? Absolutely not. Never ever. It is always centered around sexual attention. Your restaurant metaphor cannot apply. Hence why the vast majority of women think that all crossdressers think like us. If I were you, I would pay particular attention to what Reine said about sexual feelings towards men, when dressed. My binary brain is convinced that any anatomically male person that gets attracted to another male, whatever the circumstances, is at least in some way bisexual. And if they have such thoughts, exactly as Reine said, it should be tested (when single). Gay only when dressed is just a justification, imho. Which is unnecessary, homosexuality is not illegal in the fortunate times we live in the west.
p.s. on the point you made in your second paragraph, the answer is yes, it is invalid. No man can speak with the authority of a woman on what it means to be a woman. The same way that I can't speak with the authority of a doctor on health issues. That I can't speak with authority on what it means to be a man, especially when my experience extends to just wearing trousers. The clothes don't make a gender, no matter how many times it gets repeated here. Still does not make it true. And I am sure the mods will think that I am being too harsh or aggressive, you did say you want to learn though.
@Jodie Cathreen answered you. To address a specific point you raised, the higher legitimacy of a genetic woman's point of view lies not in her anatomy, but in the distinct life experience that stemmed from this anatomy. Sure, one woman's experience doesn't represent all women's experience. But it still is far more relevant in my opinion than that of a male (CDer or not) looking at this from the outside. And please don't say things like "I'm stupid". It is only damaging the conversation and I really don't think I patronized you in any way, I just tried to lay out some observations. There was no intention to hurt you.
Sorry but you've got it wrong. This is just taking pride in one's person, which is more about not wanting to look poor or shabby, in the sense that wearing the same outfit to several events is an indication that you can't afford more. It's like not wanting to be seen in tatty shoes or a jacket with worn out and tattered elbows, or not wanting to drive around in an unfixed car that has suffered a fender bender. Or not wanting your front planting bed to become overgrown with weeds. These things might not be a priority for everyone (male and female), but they are for some people (male and female). Your example has absolutely nothing to do with dressing for women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn
Also, you claim that most guys are clueless about such things? That's not true either. Crossdressers, gay men, and women don't have the monopoly on noticing what other people wear. Believe it or not, there are many observant men out there. :) And there are also lots of women who cannot remember what another woman wore the last time she saw her. I know, because I am one of them. :) Clothes are not a priority for me (they never have been) ... they are utilitarian. I know what I'm supposed to wear for certain events - for example, fancy restaurants, business meetings, hanging out at the local beer hall, and going to the beach all require different outfits - and I dress accordingly, but once the outfit is on I forget about it. And I don't pay attention to what other people wear unless their outfit is way out of keeping for the event, for example wearing tattered jeans and a paint-stained top and flip-flops at a wedding. In other words, being observant (or not) is not tied to gender or sexual attraction.
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I challenge you to ask all the women you know (not just one or two) whether they dress for other women or not. The majority consensus will be "No". And setting the record straight when you make false assumptions about GGs is not invalidating your experience, because you have not been socialized as a GG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn
You said exactly this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn
... which implied women in general. Unless you think that the GGs on this site are not representative of women in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn
Make it 5 and that makes it every GG in this thread so far telling you . As the thread is about how much your spouse knows…..but we read an opinion about GGs that is off base, it is hard to let that stand unchallenged.Quote:
Originally Posted by confused_cathreen
Speaking of this thread let us get it back on topic RIGHT NOW
How much I knew , was told before meeting, and we discussed everything from there on out.She hid it with first wife and did not make that mistake with me. I had a choice and I jumped in both feet .I had a thing about hiding, keeping secrets from a former marriage ( gambling ) made it clear deal breaker for me . In our case made for a very intimate relationship, it was our thing .
Back on topic
I agree Hidden, I dress for myself having started when I was about eight or nine. I have zero interest in attracting men and would be horrified if I did (unlikely). I was married for forty years. My wife was ambivalent about my girly side but was happy enough to pierce my ears and do my hair from time to time.
Few things are sillier than a mansplainer in a dress. When a woman says women are/do X because of Y, I tend to believe the woman.
My wife knows "everything". She know that matters, meaning if she hears anything, it wouldn't surprise her. She dislikes that I am a crossdresser and does almost nothing to support it. At best, she allows me to do the grocery shopping while dressed pretty. But, it seems like that has almost stopped happening.....
On a different front, she went on a date with me and permitted me to wear shorts and pantyhose a few weeks ago. Nothing significant happened.
I asked my partner and she said she dresses in a way that she hopes would impress or outdo other women. I tend to wear male clothes and shoes that I hope would give a favourable impression of me to other males. Not in a gay way, either. As to the original question, this is the only time that I have asked my partner her view on a post on this site. She does not know I am on here or other sites.
she knows what she wants to know and i dont ever over step the mark or whatever so she feels like there is no need to have her nose into everything. obviously new developments would be mentioned etc. people dress for other people in subcultures to general fashion we all like to feel cool and they we all have a good look, like everyone! i dont get the argument here tbh.
She knows everything. I told her before we wed. The best, but scariest thing I ever did. This was followed by long periods of heart to heart dialogue. Neither of us understands my dressing, but it is..what it is. She not only accepted my dressing, but has been the source of help and advice. Occasionally, she will buy things for me. Last week, she bought me some new thigh high nylons. I hugged her. Life is good.
My wife knows I enjoy wearing panties and has even helped pick them out for me. As to the extent of my dressing, I’m sure she suspects but the topic doesn’t come up. Do I fantasize about being with another CD when dressed? Absolutely. Will it ever become a reality? Absolutely not.
My wife dresses to impress herself and to a lesser extent, me. When male me dresses up it’s to make me feel confident and impress my bride. Knowing my wife is not lesbian, my cross dressing is to only satisfy my need but hopefully with her seal of approval. She’s not going to be sexually attracted to Vickie but she can appreciate the look and effort I put into it. So, the look I am going for, male me is attracted to. I’m dressing to look and feel pretty. While I’d be happy that a man (or woman) would find me attractive, that does not mean I want to “seduce” men or women other than my wife. Even though sometimes we get amorous while I’m “Vickie” on the surface, it’s her husband my wife is kissing. And, I’m one of those that is not interested in sexual attention from males either way I’m dressed.
I think there is way too much stereotyping going on in this string. Thanks to the mods trying to keep us on track.
My wife knows everything. I'm still new and exploring what dressing like a woman feels and looks like for me.
I've only just started wearing women's panties around the house, but I've worn panties around the house the past 2 days and love the feeling. It helps that she has been very supportive, and willing to help me find myself in our marriage. We've only been married a month and a half, but we are very open as to what we to experience both sexually and non-sexually.
And to think it started with kinky sex and porn.
My wife knew EVERYTHING!!!! After all, indirectly she got me into finding my "female side". It wasn't exactly what she had planned on but as it progressed to where I wanted to see what it was like to be a female and dress fully she was on board and helped to get me started.
My wife of 21 years has known about my dressing after our third date some 30 years ago. She has helped me with purchasing clothing, heels, and make up, and is very honest when she thinks an outfit doesn’t look good on me. We joke I enjoy wearing dresses because she doesn’t. As our relationship developed, she asked I be careful about my reputation in our careers. When we first started, our industry was still very much a traditional men wore men’s clothing and women wore women’s clothing. In today’s all inclusive work environment, I probably could openly blend my clothing, but I’m not ready to start coming out. When we started having kids, my wife did ask me to keep it hidden from them which I had no issues with. Regarding the discussion of dressing for men, I did have a sexual relationship with a guy before meeting my wife, but I never dressed for him. There were times when my wife and I were intimate we would fantasize about me being with a man while dressed, but that is as far as it has gone.
I think Jodie_Lynn began a provocative thread which elicited some controversy but read as a whole is fascinating and worthwhile.
We are a diverse group, aren't we, but we have more in common than differences.
Think how comforting that is, how powerful - our common interests and loves and dilemmas and trip wires.
I love this place and find it inspiring and a source of strength.
- Camilla
My wife knows I crossdress. She also knows I am bi. We haven't really talked about our sexual fantasies. If she asked I would tell her. As when I do fantasize I frequently remember the times I was with men or think about being with them while dressed.
When I dress, since I am married, I am not dressing for anybody but myself. I don't dress for other men or women as I am faithful to my wife.
My wife has known about my cross dressing since before we were married and that has been 42 years. She has never had any problem with it. I keep it confined to home , as it has been my choice. We shop for clothing together and she has purchased woman's clothes for me when we weren't together. To her it's normal to see me dressed. She has even told me to go dress after I have came home in a bad mood after work knowing my mood would improve.
My wife knows everything. Almost. She knew before marriage. She helps buy me clothes and makeup. Sometimes we discuss makeup, etc. I wear something femme most days. On the weekends I can be completely made up. I have some fantasies that I haven't shared. But, not a big deal to me and if she asked, I'd tell her. I have had a bi experience. She knows I went all the way in the femaie role. It wasn't bad, not the bee's knees, so I haven't done it again. Could I? Yes, but probably not. While the fantasy of me as a woman in bed is very attractive, I'm 80-90% straight so if I was to cheat, it'd probably be another woman. I'm considering transition. Would I change over to guys if I did? That's a strong possibility. Once in a woman's body, you know. I don't know, perhaps I'd be a lesbian. So, there you go, I'm ambiguously female. And no one knows the real me, including me, at least not yet.
I would like to apologize for my horrible comment that men like to see women naked. Someone suggested that women dress for women, others objected, I responded that women could show up naked and we'd be ok with it, and it was off-topic and apparently wrong, men don't like that at all. I am sorry.
I'm fortunate to have a wife who gets me and doesn't mind me wearing whatever I feel comfortable in. She's suggested that I can wear a skirt to the sports bar, I'm not sure how serious she is, but I don't see that happening. :)
She also offered to take me naked. Pretty sure NO ONE wants to see that.
My wife knows everything. I have always fantasized that a gf or spouse would ask to gender play which would open the door to CDing. One night over a billiards game my wife suggested that we try it. The experience was amazing for both of us and my femme self basically evolved from that night forward. The pink fog can be overwhelming at times for my wife but we communicate openly and even joke about things day to day. She doesn?t fully understand the why but fully accepts and supports this part of me.
My wife knows everything in regards to sex and crossdressing. She is an amazing woman who has made me feel comfortable telling her stuff that I hadn't told her before. I know I am lucky in this regard! I have never been with a man while fully dressed, but she has volunteered to help find someone and be there with me if I desire.
I'm one of the fortunate ones; my wife knows everything.
She has even helped me shave my arms and has shopped for dresses and makeup for/with me.
That being said, I do not dress up on a regular basis.
She is totally alright with me doing stand-up en-fem, YouTube videos, and all.
:)
After some previous bad experiences started telling any woman I dated. More than half ended the relationship, assuming I either planned to transition, or dressed to attract men. The first girlfriend I told said what others probably felt, ?I don?t want to date another girl.? A very few were tolerant and really only one liked to play with gender expression.
My now ex-wife happened to know a couple where the husband cross dressed and had been out with them. So she was relatively accepting when I told her and we went out to parties and clubs, mostly around Halloween.
After our relationship started downhill, it became a source of tension. I wanted to express myself more femme, and this started to bother her.
When on my laptop she found some lingerie pictures I?d taken it really set her off. The relationship was already badly broken but she was quite mean about it.
Everyone handles this differently. A former gf and lover I?d like to get back together with has ?friend zoned? me. I really appreciate her support - and she?s been great - but she does not want to be a lover anymore.
My wife knows all and is a great trans ally to have
Hi, Im 63 now and have been married for 16 years, I told my wife from the beginning within 2 weeks of us dating. I've been dressing all my life so when I met her I knew from past experience to tell her straight away, so I took the gamble of telling her within 2 weeks of starting our relationship. Better to do this rather than spending years of hiding, hiding your stash, sneaking around causing suspicion.Anyway all went well for the first 4 years, I could dress, we went out together, I got lovely presents, then we got married, then we had our first real tiff over whatever I can't remember, then it happened, me dressing was brought into the argument, I just looked like a man in a dress, my makeup was ugly, I looked like I was in a pantomime etc, etc. and from then on it was DADT. We functioned as brother and sister from then on. I never dressed in front of her, and had to go and stay out all night to dress. So this went on for years,in the meantime we bought a holiday home 40 mins away on the coast, so I could go there, over time she mellowed greatly, until one morning she got up early and I was dressed (no makeup) in the front , she never batted an eyelid, had my usual good morning and we discussed what we was doing for the day, so I took the opportunity to ask if Im ok to dress in front of her?, she said why not, no problem. So that's how it went till COVID
Same again one morning she got up early, I was fully dressed with full makeup on and wig. Usual conversation, I said am I ok wearing makeup and a wig, she said, ``No problem, you cant go and stay out due to covid, so its ok, just don't let the neighbours see you. Since then I can do whatever I want, dress all the time if I want, but I don't, I keep it down so as not to push it in her face. And its amazing I have the best of all worlds now, going to meet some of the girls from the forum on the 15th of this month in Manchester, we are going shopping in the afternoon and going out at night. My wife is even going to let me get ready at home then drive in Manchester, as I can go into my room till 2pm, so this will save time. Shes going to get an amazing xmas present, lol
Debs, that’s lovely!
I gave my wife another opportunity to open a discussion about my dressing. The conversation went something like this.
Her - I need to return some things I bought on line.
Me - Ok, why?
Her - They’re too big for me.
Me - Maybe they’d fit me.
Her - They’re pretty girlie.
Me - (in my best Monty Python voice) Are you suggesting that I don’t like girlie things?
Her - I don’t think you’d like pink pajamas.
Me - Well, you never know.
Her - (crickets)
After several minutes of silence, she resumed the conversation on another unrelated topic.
It was a brief exchange, but did provide her the chance to ask any questions or make a comment about my hobby. Just another missed opportunity to have the “talk”.
lol Monique! A while before the scope of my weirdness came out my wife had left her PJ's out on the bed while she ran a kid's friend home. I put them on and laid down on the bed reading, waiting for her to get a laugh. It worked, she laughed! Then she noticed something, let's just say that a certain part of me was expressing how much I liked the outfit, and she said as much, that I must really like wearing her clothes. I managed to reply "would that be a problem?" It went nowhere from there at that point, but little things like that got me to the big reveal. So I'm thinking you might be on to something! Keep nudging!
OMG! If my wife came home and I was lying on the bed wearing her pajamas, it would not get a laugh. It would be WWIII. My wife once gave me a pair of bicycling shorts she said were too big for her. 6 months later she noticed me wearing them and said "What the f.. are you doing wearing my shorts! What is wrong with you!" She totally forgot. Didn't accept the explanation that she gave them to me and then forgot. So I gave them back. End of story. Glad it worked out well for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy
Women are weird, Aneline. My wife has surprised me with skirts and tops, she's given me hand-me-down bras and panties, but the day she saw me wearing a toe ring it was as if I had scheduled a sex-change operation without telling her!
I kept things from my wife for a few years and the entire time we were dating. She knew I was always into lingerie. But one night I told her I wanted to put on her stockings. She really opened up to it knowing how difficult it was for me to tell her. She could tell I was nervous, even after being together 17 years at the time. I started wearing more and more to bed, [I already had some boxes full of things for a while] One night on vacation I mentioned I wanted to get a nightgown, and she didn't care at all. "Get what you want" was the phrase she used.
My wife knows but we haven?t had THE TALK(mainly due to my cold feet). We both have medical issues and she has anxiety so I don?t feel right adding to it. When we were younger she would make a comment like I love my new dress you should try it but the tone of her voice told me it wasn?t a good time for discussion. As we get older it seems her attitude has seemed to soften on it. Just last week she couldn?t find her favorite bra so she looked at me and said do you have my red bra? Not accusatory or judgmental just normal conversation. I said no and that was that.
Spent hours getting ready for a Halloween party with my [now ex] wife, from lingerie on up. All good.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy
Stop at a gas station to get gas. While I’m at the pump, hair gets in my eyes so I toss my head to get it out of the way. This simple (necessary) gesture set her off!
Too “feminine.” :straightface:
She knows enough for us to have fun together but not the full extent. I wear many things 8n front of her and she buys me sruff too. But there are some bras and lingerie i haven't worn in front of her. She knows i had some.bras and lingerie but maybe not the new stuff i own. I don't hide my stuff anymore and keep it in my drawers. If she ever looked through my drawers she would know everything. Lol.
No, she knows nothing even after 25 years of marriage (yes, I feel VERY guilty about it) and several house moves . I guess I'm just VERY good at hiding but I REALLY live in fear that one day she'll decide to go rummaging though the attic looking for something. While everything is quite well hidden and disguised, it wouldn't take long before she would appear from the attic with a VERY confused look on her face and a mountain of tough questions!
I WISH I was brave enough to have "The Talk".
I know exactly how you feel Debbie. Although I have only been dressing for a few years, I have not told my wife a thing and since the lockdowns had to bring my stash home. I used to keep it in the office. Ever since I have lived in dread that she will find it and have no idea what to say to her if she did. It’s going to be pretty hard to laugh off size 15 heels and size 20 dresses. I envy the ladies who have been able to tell their wives. I just don’t have the courage to tell her and suspect she would not be understanding at all from comments she’s made in the past. It?s also torture that my outfits are nearby and I can’t wear them because someone’s always home.
Does she really want to know? As a life long cross dresser, happily married to a wonderful woman for forty eight years, I must ask myself this question. I’m positive she has a clue, but we have never had the talk. When she found me wearing panties, she suggested I get some of my own, and even helped pick them out, and although I wear them daily, she has never mentioned it again. I have attempted numerous opportunities to bring the subject up, but she either changes the subject or worse, remains silent. It is as if she knows, but chooses to ignore it. Although I would love to be more open, I see no reason to rock the boat, so I’ll remain in the closet for now.
Not married and I'm actually living the fantasy you describe Jodie, I dated girls in my teens but I currently have a boyfriend. What drove me to wanting to be with a guy was a combo of my dressing, feeling fem 24/7, not wanting to worry about what a gf/wife thought about it and knowing that being with a guy would be the ultimate girly experience, and it has definitely been. I can see why CD'ers fantasize about wanting to be with a guy, it's heaven if you find the right one like I have and he not only approves of my dressing but likes it and encourages it (probably because I wear lingerie to bed for him lol!). If anyone is interested in what it's like to have a relationship with a boyfriend don't hesitate to PM me.
My wife knows everything. We discovered this side of me together.
Side, part, aspect? it?s me. It?s we.
And as some know, so does my SIL. 😜
I have many exciting stories I could tell you, but I am not much for a writer. So, my apologies up front.
Tony was my wife's ex boyfriend. My GF (now wife) and I had been dating for several months. She knew about my cross-dressing very early in our relationship when I told her.
One Saturday night, my wife and I were going to a local club with some other cross-dressing friends. We had invited Tony to join us there. We were all sitting outside on the patio when he showed up.
Tony of course gave my wife a kiss. Then when I was introduced to him, he gave me a friendly hug. We all sat around talking and drinking for a couple hours.
We decided it was time to take the party to our house and cool off in the pool. My wif changed into a one piece suit and I changed into a two piece. Tony didn't have one so he just swam in his boxers.
It was a fun nite with friends!!!
Attachment 324780
I go shopping with my wife as Beverley, always trying on clothes and we have both had a number of bra fittings over the years.
She needs to be fitted but one woman in a prosthetics shop insists that I get fitted for forms now and then. :-)