How often is SO participation required?

Being a CD myself, I understand what you are saying. My SO and I have discussed this too and I agree. I do dress a lot of the time that I'm home and she's OK with it, but I would never ask her to dress me or do my nails. I mean that that's a personal thing and I want my make-up done my way, my hair my way, etc. As far as being the man in her life... I always am. I don't dress for sex... I undress for it. I'm always on top and take the lead when in bed and as a man I think about sex a lot and try to keep her satisfied as well as I can. The door has to swing in both directions. If she feels unconfortable, she tells me. If she asks me to stop dressing for a while, a week, a month, whatever, I comply. It's only fair. I also take my part in our relationship seriously. I don't think twice about dusting, or vacuuming, or whatever else is necessary around the house. Of course my SO has MD, so some things are hard for her. I do most of the house cleaning. She does the cooking most of the time as well as the dishes and counters. I do the rest. Unless she is sick, of course, then I do it all. I thing that all aspects should be shared, whether it be taking out the garbage or putting on make-up. There will always be time to do what you want. Maybe not always when you want, but there's always a time that's right. What you ask of him is not unreasonable at all. He should respect your wishes as well. I'm getting too wordy - nuf-sed!

I know i want and need to be here to read how others are coping and accepting their CD partners.. but i am really have a huge problem trying to work out how to say something to a particular "post" that someone has typed... now im not blonde just dont use the computer a lot

No problem Robyn, you just did it! Now all you have to remember is exactly what you did to type your last reply, then do it again, with different words of course! It's a whole new ball game when you've got some digital photos to post, but there's plenty of people here (me included) who can show you how to do that!

Welcome to the best forum on the planet!
Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

Dear kittypw,

I get the feeling that there is a strong underlaying current of guilt within your posts. Please forgive me if I'm got the wrong impression, but, reading your post, especially your last post...

I get the feeling that you equate your SO's CD'ing to him not loving you or respecting you; does this not make you feel like his wife?

I'm trying to be as tactful as possible kittypw, however, the feeling I get thru your posts is your still very much angry towards your husbands CD'ing +?


hugs

x

beckii

PS I tend to dress more & more often when I'm really stressed out or life in guy mode is not going smoothly. I'm thankful that I can step out of my guy mode into my fem mode, it's definately better than throwing 1/2 a bottle of scotch down my throat & a lot more personally rewarding too.

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Thanks for your reply Beckii,
First let me say that I don't really feel guilt and I am not sure what it is exactly you are refering to. Maybe you could elaborate?

Secondly I do not have much anger towards my hubby's cding. I have a great deal of anger towards his lack of comprimise, and frankly his lack of participation in general in our marriage. He would say that he thinks that it should be a two way street but his actions prove otherwise. I don't equate his cding to his not loving me. Oh no no no. I equate the way he ignores me and gives me one word answers to my attempts at conversation and maybe because he can go for a week or more without even touching me. (I mean not even a touch on the shoulder or a pat on the head.:mad: ) I equate that with not loving me. It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship. I need to know that he has my best interest at heart not his own. I need to know that he wants to please me as much as I want to please him. Our marriage is in serious trouble indirectly because of the crossdressing because he acts like the only important thing is for him to relieve HIS stress and I should just go along with it. Let me tell you this is not how I relieve stress. Quite frankly I dont' think he can see past what he wants to even know or care about how much stress I am under. He is out of work on a work injury which has perpetuated for a year and a half. Our income has been seriously comprimised and I am the main bread winner. I perform miracles each pay day in order to keep us afloat. I have never had so much debt in my life and let me tell you if anyone needs stress relief it is me.

I have bought him all of his womenly things and he does wear them when I am not home. He is just pitching a fit that I don't participate more than once a month. Quit frankly, with our current situation, I find his wineing about my participation kind of lame. I think that I am comprimising very nicely. At least I don't say forget it all together.

As far as being black and white about it???? I will forgive you on that one because you don't know me but if anyone is black and white it is my hubby.

He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way??? When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language. :sad:
Kitty

QUOTE ''It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship.

I still a newbe here but I too think he's being unfair to you. My SO allows me to dress anytime I want but I don't leave the house that way. As I stated earlier in a previuos post... He should let the door swing your way too. After all a good relationship is a balance.
After I wrote my previous post to you I asked my SO if she minded my dressing every day like I have been doing for a few weeks now and she looked at me and smiled nicely and said ''Whatever blows your skirt up'' and then we had a very passionate kiss and a hug. -- I guess I'm very lucky for having such an understanding girlfriend. Maybe the two of you just need to sit down and have a hard discussion to balance the scales a bit more. Maybe tell him you'll leave if he doesn't change at least a little toward your needs.
I talk too much - Thanks for listening to someone that CD's too.

Remember you asked!

In my opinion your husband is damn lucky to be able to dress with you around at all. There are alot of us that have lost wives or have had serious troubles in our relationships because of CDing. My wife knows of my CDing and would rather not see me dressed. She does accept it, and I can wear ladies underwear to bed. BUT never if we are to be intimate. I must be all man for her then. I totally respect her wishes, and am greatful that she is as accepting as she is.

SO as in any relationship there is some give and take. My wife does go shopping with me sometimes, and we really do enjoy those quality times together. She does accept that it is a part of me and does not try to force me to quit altogether. And I never try overstep her limits. I respect that she married a man and wishes to keep it that way. When I have troubles, she is there to support me, And when she has troubles I do the best that any "Guy" can do to support her.

So you are a very special lady for accepting what you have and letting your husband be the person that he really is. And your husbad should respect your wishes and try to meet your limitations. Afterall you always have "Plan B" = Walking out the door

Best Wishes
Raychel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way??? When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language. :sad:
Kitty

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Well at least it's a start, I guess. It must be hard on you Kitty, trying to share your love with someone who sounds like they don't really know how to share. Your last post brought tears to my eyes. :hugs: I hope he begins to realize what a wonderful woman you are & starts learning how to share properly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marie354

Maybe the two of you just need to sit down and have a hard discussion to balance the scales a bit more. Maybe tell him you'll leave if he doesn't change at least a little toward your needs.

---

As Kitty has mentioned in previous posts (& threads), he isn't very good at communicating. She'd love to talk more about their relationship, but he doesn't want to. If she trys to talk about it, he just wants to talk about her participating in his CDing more. It seems like he doesn't want to reciprocate, and that's not fair. :mad:

To Kitty's SO: Get your act together, dude! You're giving the team a bad name. :) A shared world is much nicer than being in your own little bubble. If you want her to be comfortable in your space, she needs you to give her time in her space. Is that too hard?

:hugs:

Robin

On this forum, we tend to contribute everything to our desire to dress. The truth is that many of the issues we deal with are issues that the rest of the population has to deal with as well. One of these is a spouse or SO who does not contribute as much to a relationship as the other. If we are in a relationship we should have the same desire to nuture the other. Many men, as well as some women, lose the desire to nuture the relationship. This may be caused by a loss of passion, familiarity, stress, selfishness, bitterness, anger, fear, jealousy or any of a hundred or more other reasons. In my opinion, he is likely not showing the same amount of love and participation in the relationship as he did previously. This is not merely a cross dressing issue.

I suspect that if he was fulfilling your emotional needs on an everyday basis that there would be not talk of "once a month" participation. Your relationship is not the same as most of the other members of this forum whose SO's either don't or at best begrudingly particpate in their SO's desire to dress. You have proven to be open and accepting. I would hope that he would want to begin showing his love and appreciation for what you are giving him.

On the other hand, the desire to dress can become obsessive. Some of us want to do it all of the time or at least as much as possible. This can result in our not wanting to participate in activities outside of our home to the detriment of living a full and rewarding life. If I were you, I would try to evaluate what you are receiving in your relationship with him to determine what the real cause of your dissatisfaction is. Is it the dressing or is it something deeper?

I suspect that if he truly puts your needs above his own that he would find you more willing to participate on a more frequent basis. Of course, you must put his needs above your own as well. A relationship is not a 50/50 thing. It is 100/100. Sort of footprints in the sand if you know what I mean.

I'm pretty sure things will get normal (or as normal as they get for us CD'ers) if you both begin putting the other's needs above your own. On a final note...tell him to be a (girly) man and start buying some of his own clothes and makeup.

Hi Kitty,

If you don't mind, I'll stick my half-TS gender-queer nose into this to give you my thoughts.

IMNSHO, you have been and continue to be taken advantage of by your husband - words I'm sure he's not keen on hearing. His actions are not those of a loving and caring partner.

You and I have discussed this at length in the past and there is nothing unreasonable about your position. Relationships require 100% participation from both parties in order to be successful and you are not getting that. That he reacts as he does would seem to indicate that there is much more going on here than 'garden variety' CDing (assuming here is such a thing at all.) Couple's therapy is a good idea here - provided that both parties are genuinely interested in it working. Half-hearted attempts will only serve to waste money with no ROI.

The bottom line here is really simple: your husband has a good thing going with respect to your participation and he is oblivious to that fact. That he expects more from you while giving less only serves to underscore this fact. I see no reason to reward bad behavior and under the circumstances, a commitment of once a month on your part is more than generous.

Your husband needs to open his eyes and see what he has. Until he can do that, there will be no forward movement.

My wife and I have been living with this for over 20 years - much more so for the last nine. As you know, mine is a different - more 'out' - situation. It's not been easy and it continues to present challenges but the one constant is that we both are committed to our relationship and continuing to make it work. That means give and take on not just her part, but on mine as well.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Thanks for your reply Beckii,
First let me say that I don't really feel guilt and I am not sure what it is exactly you are refering to. Maybe you could elaborate?

---

Trying to grasp a situation or events, epsecially feelings in this medium is hard. Sorry I'm unable to give a definate example, though, I felt a slight under current of a lot of feelings in your first post, one was guilt. It wasn't so much what you were writing but what I read between the lines.

Sorry if that's about as clear as mud :doh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Secondly I do not have much anger towards my hubby's cding. I have a great deal of anger towards his lack of comprimise, and frankly his lack of participation in general in our marriage. He would say that he thinks that it should be a two way street but his actions prove otherwise. I don't equate his cding to his not loving me. Oh no no no. I equate the way he ignores me and gives me one word answers to my attempts at conversation and maybe because he can go for a week or more without even touching me. (I mean not even a touch on the shoulder or a pat on the head.:mad: ) I equate that with not loving me. It makes me angry that he forces me to crossdress just to get a loving touch or a kind word. He has told me that he would be so much happier if I would just participate. :mad: I said that I would be happier if he would stop using emotional blackmail and step up to the plate and build a foundation for our relationship. I need to know that he has my best interest at heart not his own. I need to know that he wants to please me as much as I want to please him. Our marriage is in serious trouble indirectly because of the crossdressing because he acts like the only important thing is for him to relieve HIS stress and I should just go along with it. Let me tell you this is not how I relieve stress. Quite frankly I dont' think he can see past what he wants to even know or care about how much stress I am under. He is out of work on a work injury which has perpetuated for a year and a half. Our income has been seriously comprimised and I am the main bread winner. I perform miracles each pay day in order to keep us afloat. I have never had so much debt in my life and let me tell you if anyone needs stress relief it is me.

I have bought him all of his womenly things and he does wear them when I am not home. He is just pitching a fit that I don't participate more than once a month. Quit frankly, with our current situation, I find his wineing about my participation kind of lame. I think that I am comprimising very nicely. At least I don't say forget it all together.

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I'm sorry if I offended you kitty, didn't mean to, but, on the flip least now you've really let your feeling shine thru, that btw in my opinion is good. It's good for you, it gives you a chance in an anonymous way to express how you really, honestly feel...

Again, from you original post it looks like I got my wires crossed, sorry. However, now I have a very clear picture of what is going on, thank you :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

As far as being black and white about it???? I will forgive you on that one because you don't know me but if anyone is black and white it is my hubby.

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An obvious misconception I held, based on your first post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

He told me today that he has read the posts and will try things MY WAY.
Now this should make me happy right? Well some how it really doesn't make me feel good for him to say it like that. When will it ever be OUR way???

---

I wish I could give you an answer, but, I'd be telling lies if I did.

Your post is a bit of a paradox actually, as I told my SO a 5 weeks ago, hence the feelings, emotions and everything else are still vivid and raw.

I think the key is communication, but, as he doesn't seem to want to even do this, then my heart really does go out to you kitty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

When will he ever feel like he has responsibility for developing a great love and friendship?? Sometimes I feel Like I am talking a foreign language.

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Let me shoot from the hip here & ask you a few questions kitty...

Hypothetically if your SO was giving you everything every thing that you've expressed above; attention; intimacy; sharing; the equality of your marriage, would his CD'ing be a BIG issue? Could you actually accept it?

Personally I think you could! After all you've been purchasing clothes and what not for him anyway, not a big issue there, was there?

Is it possible that the CD'ing is not the issue here, but, its been the catalyst that's brought all your fears, emotions and hurt to the surface?



hugs

:rose2:

beckii

wow i read all the post and some 2 or more times ..my take is this if the hubby wants wife too be there and also play i feel he feels in his mind your the one makeing him dress too please you or makeing him be the girl you want him to be ?this is how the psot ive read felt too me .... im not trying too take any sides here beacuse i too am married and ive asked once or twice if my wife would play she has but i know you cant push it too much because for both parties there must and has too be a two wat street alwasy....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iwearpanties

i feel he feels in his mind your the one makeing him dress too please you or makeing him be the girl you want him to be ?

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My bottom lip is almost chewed thru, my SO advised me to zip it & keep my thoughts to myself, but me being me, I had to dig deeper into this, as it just didn't seem to gel.

Yes its captured my intrigue. Adding, knocking a good chunk of a BA in Psychology (many years ago) on the head, I still find subjects such as this interesting.

I should have taken your lead kitty and actually read all your post from the beginning. Still, now that I have spent a few hours doing so, I have a couple of opinions, one is based on the exact views of the quote above.

As side note, I'll try to refrain from intellectualising, too much. I'm surethis is going to cuts too close to the core. But, I’m just calling it based exactly on what I've read.

If I can transgress to your thread here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=19811

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

I knew from the begining that my husband had an interest in wearing panties. I found it somewhat exciting. His feelings about crossdressing were not very developed. I think he only owned one skirt when we met (and not a very attractive one either) Over time we developed it together. I gave him his fem name and most of his clothes, actually I bought all of it. Wigs, makeup etc.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Over time the crossdressing just took over.

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Reading the for mention thread, you describe the exhilaration, excitement that your SO's CD'ing brought into your life. From the beginning (not marriage but dating) you were privy to him not only wearing panties but also a dress too. But something within you wanted more.

His taste in female attire obviously wasn't good enough by your standards, you desired him to be more attractive, more fitting outwardly towards that of a female. Hence you made a conscious decision to transform him into the woman you thought he should be. Instead of respecting the female persona he was.

You even go so far as to boldly state that you picked his girl name too. Did he have any say in anything about his own fulfillment in his own female self! I don't know your motovations you've never expresed these from what I've read of your posts, hence just my opinions.

Maybe in the beginning it was done out of love, you simply wanted to help him look his best in a genuine caring, nuturing nature that most females are renowned for. However, somewhere along that track of your discovery it took a sharp turn, something you obviously didn't bargin for.

If I was to take this as a Psych case study, I'd label it forced feminization without a doubt.

My intrigue is fuelled further by what you really expected would happen by taking this course?

To me it's akin to knowing someone is a recreational drug user, feeding their habit with stronger substances, then wondering why they've turned into a junkie!

Did you not think that moulding someone into something you wanted would not hold any repercussions?

After reading each and every one of your posts, you seem content to blame him for all your mistakes pertaining to your need to have him CD'ing the way you saw acceptable.

I shudder to think how long this type of behavioural treatment has been active in your marriage. Least of all in your previous courtship.

It must really be starting to eat into your life & affecting you as a person. Too bad you didn't think about your SO as a person too, before venturing down your self indulgent, self gratifying path.

Instead of beating this guy up, you, yes you kitty, should be trying your dammdest to be making things right!

Instead of again pointing the finger at your SO (and belittling him) who quite frankly in my mind obviously thought the world of you; who else would allow themselves to be changed in such a way other than for the love of someone else.

What upsets me the most is that you've created this issue all by yourself & either your unwilling to accept responsibility for your own actions or your simply void of seeing the truth.

Yet, instead of realising your part in this and owning it, you instead play the blame game and make out like you hold no cards, it's out of your hands and your SO the perpetual problem is all of this!

This poor guy, I can't imagine what he's going thru or what's running thru his mind. Especially now as you so kindly put it that’s he’s basically useless as he’s not the bread winner anymore. If you happy to write this in a public forum and happy to let him read it, I'd be interested in how you address him behind closed doors.

Reiterating, we have a guy who was happy & content to wear panties and a dress. Instead his SO GG decides that he doesn't fit into the way she wants him to get in touch with his own personal feminine side, takes control and basically forces him to dress (most probably act) and what ever else to her demands, bit like training a dog to sit really.

As much as I hold empathy towards this entire sad affair. I sincerely believe that the only way he’s going to get his head clear and his life back, & or you both stand any chance of saving this marriage,
is to make some BIG choices right now.

Your part in this needs to be supportive, drop the self pity and let him do what he wants for a change.


beckii


PS I don't claim to be qualified in the area of Psychology, I'm no lay person either, but in retrospect if I don't say something it's far worse than not saying anything at all.

If this gets me booted, banned or whatever, then it’s been fun, thanks everyone for making me feel welcome and taking the time to respond to my posts, thoughts and requests. :)

Hi Kitty,

Like others I am in no way a professional. I have read some of your other posts.
and I don't mean to read between the lines or to put any other thoughts where they should not be.

So please forgive me in advance.

So I have to ask
Could the real issue about all of this be maybe fears that his feminine personna is trying to develope into a real being?

I would think that this would scare the H*** out of both you. You have stated in the past that if he were to have a sex change that it could lead to a divorce.

Maybe she subconsciencely is trying to get out. She is afraid of being alone and rejected by you. Maybe she is so locked up inside of this fear that the walls of communication are being bricked up.

Maybe you to are afraid of this. I would be if I were you.

I know you know that crossdressing in itself isn't a big thing. Its just clothes after all. ( took me a lifetime to get there) As long as 2 people are commmunicating and going thru life in the same direction all is good.

I think there is more going on. I think you both are in great pain and anguishing very much over this dilemma. After all no one wants to loose somebody they love.

All I can say is I believe in prayer. So I will add this most troublesome issue of yours to my list.

Hugs to both you and yours. I hope that the coming new year will be brighter for both of you.

Hugs Rory

P.S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

My bottom lip is almost chewed thru, my SO advised me to zip it & keep my thoughts to myself, but me being me, I had to dig deeper into this, as it just didn't seem to gel.

---

I do wish you had listned to your SO

Jess

Beckii,
Honey please reconsider going back on your meds. It will be ok dear. Things will get better. :love: Kitty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jess(SO)

I do wish you had listned to your SO

Jess

---

Ditto, in extreme! Reminds me of an old adage:

Those who can...do...those who can't... try to tell others how it should be done.

As one who has known Kitty for quite some time here and been a shoulder as well as an ear, but most importantly her *friend* I am offended in more ways than I can even express at your "sermon" to her.

I had decided to not post on this forum any more. Suffice it to say that your attack on Kitty was appalling enough to make me break my vow of silence.

:Angry3: :Angry3:

P.S. In case you missed it, personal attacks on a member is against the rules.

Kitty,

I had to think about this a bit. You are very sharp in that you seek advice for the things that are so close to you that your view may not be clear. IMHO once a month is not too much to ask, but sometimes it may be more and sometimes it may be less. Sometimes it may be polish and underwear and sometimes it may be completely gorgeous. It isn't always about the clock or calendar, but about the relationship. You have limits that involve the bedroom. More than fair. If I were you husband, I would readily accept this offer since he maintains the husbandly role, much to his benefit also.

Your participation should be related to your love of the person you married. IMHO, allow yourself to see him express the person he is on the inside. But, remind him to be patient with you as this is a priviledge you extend to him through your relationship to meet his need of your participation. The more time you spend together the stronger your relationship becomes. If you sense an uncomfortable area of his dressing, then be honest with him.

I admire you for your support of him and us here on this forum. You've helped me personally and I appreciate it.

Colleen

I have never found participation to be that important in anything other then shopping. On occasion my wife has done my makeup and I really enjoyed that but that was all voluntary on her end. I really try to keep it to myself if she is home I just try to not go over the top by doing things like wearing forms or a wig. Sorry to ramble i was just unsure of what participate actually meant.

Kitty, I would agree that there aren't really any rules or conventions and that communication between you and your hubby setting limits and expectations is key. My wife doesn't participate in my cding, but she does give me girl time and space. The way she puts it is "As important as this activity may be to you, it's just not that important to me." Doesn't mean she doesn't love me, doesn't mean I love her less, doesn't mean our relationship will fail (it's lasted over 20 years already). So whatever works for your two is the right balance.

Lowla

Most of you have given me some things to consider. A lot of you have said what I have been saying from the begining to my hubby. I have tried many things to please him but he falls short in the reciprocation. We have tried counseling but it doesn't work if you have one partner who feels like they are being dragged there. The only way counseling will work is if both buy into it and actually commit to doing the things the counselor suggests.

It confuses me that he says that he loves me and wants to be married to me but he treats me like I'm not really important to him. He has his sweet moments but overall he just acts like he is just not that into me. He wants me to be into him though. I listen to his actions they tell me a story way different from his words which are few and far between.

I did not like setting a specific limit on the crossdressing but if I didn't then he would hound me and get angry at me because I didn't suggest it. I guess that the limit was so that I could get some peace in between. I get weary always fighting about something that is important to him while the things that are important to me keep getting ignored or the effort put into them is minimal. You know what I mean, the effort is such that you just want to say why bother in the first place. It is obvious that he begrudgingly participates and it is obvious so that he can say "look I did your thing". He should be thankful that I don't act that way when I participate in his crossdressing but I am not that kind of person.

I am at the point where I just don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Ain't got no more fight in me. Don't know if he is willing to fight for me.

Thanks everyone :love: Kitty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Beckii,
Honey please reconsider going back on your meds. It will be ok dear. Things will get better. :love: Kitty

---

I'm not about to entertain a flame war with another member, I’ll take the higher ground always. Hence I’ll keep my comment regarding your bad tasted remark brief.

Casting derogative connotations at anyone’s mental health is very immature in my opinion. It perpetuates ignorance, intolerance and stands as another clear reminder why the transgender community, especially why cross dressers fear being discovered.

It’s comments just like yours that sicken me to the pit of my stomach.

Kathy,

Having been a member of this forum for quite a while now, I have read a lot of your posts, replies to other posts, and I don't mind saying that I admire your honesty and your train of thought.

Being a deeply closeted crossdresser I can only IMAGINE what it might be like to have a partner who is accepting/tolerant as you seem to be, so with that in mind here's how I would answer your questions.

You asked,

Quote:

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"How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy?"

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The KEY word I see here is HAVE (to participate). Even in a relationship where there is acceptance and/or tolerance, my opinion is that the wife or girlfriend shouldn't HAVE to participate if she doesn't want to. Looking at the situation from a CD's point of view, sure - we'd love to have participation if for no other reasons than to learn from our partner's acquired skills in makeup, fashion, hair styling, etc. The experience you GGs gain over your lifetimes is invaluable to a typical CD and the wise advice you are capable of supplying concerning these things is something that the typical CD SHOULD be grateful for. But in the overall picture, if the GG isn't comfortable with participating in her man's dressing, then she should never be expected to do so. He should be grateful that she is (at least) tolerant and allows him to do so when he needs to.

You asked,

Quote:

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"How often should our CD's be the man in our lives?"

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I'm assuming that you're mostly referring to intimate relationships in your question.The simple answer is that he should ALWAYS be the man in your life. He should understand and RESPECT the facts that in an accepting/tolerating relationship, he's able to dress with his partner's "blessings" to do so, but at the same time that doesn't mean that this partner has a desire to have him dressed enfemme for intimate relations. Also, he shouldn't take his dressing to excess. Here again, this is a sort of 'privilige' he's been granted by an accepting spouse and he should take care not to abuse it lest it be revoked. Since he obviously has a NEED to dress, my personal opinion is that this need is recognized by his partner and allowances are made in the form of frequency, location, etc. to indulge himself.

Obviously, this isn't going to be representative of others opinions since everyone's situation and opinions are different. This isn't meant to be something contrary to others replies.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

WOW this tread has progressed a lot since I last seen it. I feel pretty lame in neglecting my friends Kitty and Dannielle. While my wife and I have not known them long, they have already grown on us and we wish we could do more to help.

I would like to point out a few things that helped my wife and I. Two books among the many we have read that were really helpful to us were the following. If you can, the best way to read these are to by his and hers books and then read with a highlighter and pencil.

The Five Love Languages by by Gary Chapman (the original one not any of the "........ For something" versions. )
And there are several other similar books to this thought process by other authors. But in a nut shell we communicate our love to others and receive love from others in different ways. So while one spouse may be giving tons of love, their spouse may not be feeling or receiving it. This book also has a workbook supplement that can be purchased also which will aid in what you get out of the book and help in discussion things with your spouse.

His Needs Her Needs by Jr Willard F Harley (again the original one and not any of the follow on books.) Again this book shows how men and woman communicate differently. I thought this also had a workbook but did not see it online.

Both of these books are also available in an audio format. There also also many other good relationship books, these are just two that help me and my wife out also.

A quick thought on books, counseling, and other outside help. If you and your spouse had all the answers and could make this work:
How did you get to this point in your relationship.
OH NO, maybe you do not have all of the knowledge and answers to make it work.

Kitty, I am not sure if this is the case in your situation, but it sounds like it may be. And this final thing I would like to plug is something mostly for the GUYS as we seem to struggle the most with this, but I have also seen where the roll is reversed. If your spouse is willing to talk to you about your CDing, then you need to talk to them. In most, if not all, cases this is not something you can just ignore and it will go away.

SO OPEN YOUR XXXbleepyXXXX MOUTH. :laughing: :yikes:

And talk, listen, and communicate with your wife/GF/SO/partner. It may not be easy and it was not for me. But if your wife is willing to talk to you about this you need to talk, open up to them. Do not give them the surface over view. You need to dig down deeper, and I mean DEEPER and get into your feelings. It is ok if you do not know all the answers and it is ok to tell your spouse that. Hey maybe you could work out the answers together!!!!!

Love is feelings, maybe it is time you shared a few more with your spouse.

If you think talking to your spouse about this is hard. Wait until you open up and do it only to find out it was harder to hold it in than to talk about it.

Just some thoughts from a weird CDer. :roflmao:

KimberlyS - CD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

I shudder to think how long this type of behavioural treatment has been active in your marriage. Least of all in your previous courtship.

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Have you asked? or did you come to your own conclusion from previous posts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

It must really be starting to eat into your life & affecting you as a person. Too bad you didn't think about your SO as a person too, before venturing down your self indulgent, self gratifying path.

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Wow, such harsh words, did you take the time to actually PM Kitty and ask about her SO before coming to this conclusion, or did you yet again read too much into her previous posts..... Too bad you didn't, or you wouldn't have said such spiteful comments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

Instead of beating this guy up, you, yes you kitty, should be trying your dammdest to be making things right!

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Oh is that right?? and you know she isn't trying how?? oh that's right, YOU DON'T KNOW, because you didn't take the time to privately ASK HER did you eh??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

Instead of again pointing the finger at your SO (and belittling him) who quite frankly in my mind obviously thought the world of you; who else would allow themselves to be changed in such a way other than for the love of someone else.

---

Hmm.... getting the feeling you really don't know Kitty at all... no actually, you DON'T know her at all, because this quote couldn't be far wrong!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

What upsets me the most is that you've created this issue all by yourself & either your unwilling to accept responsibility for your own actions or your simply void of seeing the truth.

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Her actions?? and again, you seriously didn't do your homework..... getting the feeling, maybe you are actually ranting about yourself!!!!

Quote:

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Yet, instead of realising your part in this and owning it, you instead play the blame game and make out like you hold no cards, it's out of your hands and your SO the perpetual problem is all of this!

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Oh, that's right, the SO is to blame, like I said, you know NOTHING, you didn't ASK HER, you just assumed Kitty was at fault.... how wrong you are again!!!!

Quote:

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This poor guy, I can't imagine what he's going thru or what's running thru his mind. Especially now as you so kindly put it that’s he’s basically useless as he’s not the bread winner anymore. If you happy to write this in a public forum and happy to let him read it, I'd be interested in how you address him behind closed doors.

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Funny, he hasn't replied or stood up for himself... I wonder why that is.... Kitty is the bread winner yes, imagine what stress she is under, not to mention everything else that is going on..... oh I forgot.... YOU DIDN'T ASK HER DID YOU.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

Reiterating, we have a guy who was happy & content to wear panties and a dress. Instead his SO GG decides that he doesn't fit into the way she wants him to get in touch with his own personal feminine side, takes control and basically forces him to dress (most probably act) and what ever else to her demands, bit like training a dog to sit really.

As much as I hold empathy towards this entire sad affair. I sincerely believe that the only way he’s going to get his head clear and his life back, & or you both stand any chance of saving this marriage,
is to make some BIG choices right now.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beckii_aCDInOz

Your part in this needs to be supportive, drop the self pity and let him do what he wants for a change.

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Shameful.... just shameful...

As much as I've tried to bite my tongue, these quotes of bs has really pissed me off. You don't know Kitty, you don't know the whole story and you most certainly do not have the right to belittle her like this on the forum. You've taken her post out of context and turned it into a hateful, spiteful, name calling, judgemental load of bs. What right did you have to do that? What has any of the above got to do with the question she asked? Did she ask you to bring up all her previous posts and slam them into something that really does not exist??

Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read? do you know what she is going through right now? HAVE YOU ACTUALLY ASKED HER????? I guess not, or you would never have posted this rubbish.... and yes, it is RUBBISH... Some people never cease to amaze with with pyscho babble.. :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn:
Next time you feel the need to tear someone apart, I suggest you do your homework first or have the decency to take some time and PM that person before slamming them on the forum.

"Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read?"

Given the limitations of a forum that is as Google puts it "Typical entry in forum style" how could anyone know more? All we have here is words.

And, drop the entire CD deal (or better yet, substitute someother preoccupation) and you will find a letter, that is just like thousands, if not millions of other letters about problems in relationships. The basic point is that the two people have differeing styles of communication and its not working. Sometimes outside ears can help, mostly people just hit this wall and will in time go their own way. That's not good, or bad, its just life. People can grow apart as sure as they can grow together, and divorce rates would indicate that more than CD is going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tekla west

"Do you know anything about Kitty other than what you have read?"

Given the limitations of a forum that is as Google puts it "Typical entry in forum style" how could anyone know more? All we have here is words.

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The PM system isn't limited is it?? such a thing as 'asking'... oh wait.... I'm repeating myself, since I've already mentioned the PM system, you chose just to ignore that fact..... :rolleyes:

It was posted in a public forum. Perhaps the PM system should have been the alpha point and not the omega.

Some really strong opinions going on here.

I have posted with Kitty for several months now & find her to be a giving, caring and strong woman who is struggling in her relationship and regret that anyone was moved to direct attacks in a public settings. (Thou doest protest too much?)

The point that some of the major issues being dealt with here are non-CD related is very valid. The strain of adding CD to the work load sometimes is just more weight than the emotional baggage cart can stand. It's a catalyst, not a cause. If it hadn't been CDing, it'd have been something else.

What about the ostrich affect? Wives who stick their heads in the sand and not look? Doesn't make the CDing any less real - doesn't make the husband's added hobby any less burdonsome to time restrictions. However the point can be made that this is the way to go. They CD'd before we knew without our involvement - why should we be involved now, even if they ask?

Let's take the HAVE out of Kitty's thread title. We have "How often is SO participation req'd? Most of the beginning posts answered that from their point of view.

Add the "HAVE" and then we have a slightly different meaning that connotates obligation and lack of free will.

Why does a CDer HAVE to CD? Why does a SO HAVE to participate? Why does a husband HAVE to interact (verbally, physically, whatever) with his wife, and vise versa? Nobody HAS to do anything.

Except.......
If a CDer felt he wanted to perserve a marriage with a SO that was totally against CDing, the CDer would HAVE to hide in the closet.

If a wife wanted to perserve a marriage/relationship with a CDer and felt lack of participation would indicate unacceptance and drive the CDer away, she would feel she HAD to participate.

Or in Kitty's case, she feels she has to participate to get intimate interaction (verbally or physically) with her husband.

Beckii's rant - although hostile and pretty much off the mark in Kitty's case - did hit home with me in 2 ways:

#1) When a CDer comes out of the closet & asks for the wive's/SO's opinion on clothes, hair, makeup - it appears the SO should decline comment - kinda like the "Do I look fat in these jeans?" question. It's hard. But just as somewhere around 12 yrs old I could no longer buy clothes for my daughter (she hated them), I should resist the urge to buy "personal" gifts for CDing. Even though I've been married to this man for decades and should be able to be as personal as it gets. Hence the quandry.

#2) Define support & acceptance. In any other aspect of our married life, I would define this as cooperation and active energies toward a shared goal. As much pressure as is put on "enlightened" adults to tolerate and accept alternative lifestyles, you'd think it would be good to get in there and "build the better woman" with a CDer and enjoy the play. But from Beckii_CD's point of view, I am altering the persona of my husband's feminine side. Which I would be, so I should stay out of it - I like sand!

I would like to answer Kitty's original question from my multiple choice personality perspective.

"How often is SO participation required?"

A) As often as never
B) As often as always
C) As often as makes Kitty smile
D) None of the above
E) All of the above

Hint: There is no right answer

Tree GG, I like your move back to Kitty's original question and your multiple choice question. I think we could have 100 plus choices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tree GG

"How often is SO participation required?"

A) As often as never
B) As often as always
C) As often as makes Kitty smile
D) None of the above
E) All of the above

Hint: There is no right answer

---

And I agree there is no right or wrong answer and each couple needs to figure out what works for them. I can relate a lot to some of what Kitty and SO are going through. When my wife and I got down to the point of really starting to work through the CDing issues, my wife asked me a question:

I do not remember the exact wording, but it was something like:
What do you want out of me?
What type of participation?
What or how much acceptance ?

The top for me would be for her to totally accept my CDing in all ways and to partake in my CDing like we currently do most things together as a couple.

The minimum would be for her to accept that there was a feminine part of me. This was most likely the easiest for her because she already could see my feminine traits. And I said accept, not like. And that if that was all that she could accept and partake in to be able to allow me time to CD on my own with not participation on her part, accept maybe the fact that was what I was doing.

Where are we? Well we are somewhere in the middle just as most are. We are looking for a CDing lifestyle (for lack of a better term), that we are both comfortable with. And once or if we do ever reach this point I am sure it will change just like most other things do in life. In the mean time I do some cding things and some non-cding things. Even on the "CDing" outing weekends my wife and I go on, we do both CDing things and Non-CDing things. The thing that has helped a lot is she knows I need time to CD and I know she needs some of the male of me and non-cding time. And actually most of our 1 on 1 time is non-cding which is actually ok with me.

I passed over this thread several times and finally have just read it all from the front to back.


Interesting situation. It has little to do with crossdressing really. That's just what is being used as the 'power play' between you both in your emotional turmoil.


Summary: You are lonely, tired and in need of support and want to feel genuinely loved for a change.

He appears to be selfish and very immature.


Doesn't have much to do with CD stuff at all really.

I wish you luck.










Then again we haven't had his side of the story.

Wow.

Kitty,

For some time as I have read your posts, I have felt like there was so much more beneath the surface which you were struggling with. I pray that you find the strength you need, the peace you deserve and the courage of your convictions.

Having been out to my significant other in every relationship I have been in over the past 25+ years I cannot comprehend the attitude of your husband.

The answer to "how often is SO participation required?" is up to each couple. For me I need my SO's participation in OUR relationship ALWAYS! Now I do know that you meant participation in the CD'ing activity. For me the answer lies within the relationship my Bride and I have. I Love being her Husband! I Adore Her! It gives me Great pleasure to give her some of the things she wants, and I hope, everything she Needs. Few things please me more than to give her something she wants because I believe she really "needs" to have it!

As I said, I LOVE being Her Husband. On the other hand, I also adore being Her "wife". Sometimes it's even fun to be "Her Bit.." ........ er... :redface: well, you know.

In my life, as I have said before, I tend to try to err on the side of being the Husband too much instead of erring by being the "other woman" too much.

The irony is that I know that I am accepted and LOVED however I dress because I put our Marriage Bond first and always. Who's doing what to whom and how are all incidental, because it's all MUTUAL!

I believe that in a marriage, sometimes we all do things because we know it will please our lifemate, even if it's not our "first choice".

Risking sounding like a broken record, I choose to "Make Love" to my Bride all day long, everyday. When the sex part of "Making Love" happens, it is always special, regardless of who's panties are being pulled down. :redface:

I understand that your situation is somewhat unique in that you have been "forced" by circumstance to be the bread winner in your household. I do not know how I would react if I were disabled and dependent, but I hope that I would show even more affection and appreciation to my Bride if she had to bear that burden.

Trudi

This is for Beckii from Dannielle.Kittypw's husband I've read what you wrote to Kitty's post and you are so far out of the ballpark.first let me say I appreciate all of the posts here to Kitty and myself I probably am very self centered and selfish as far as the crossdressing goes and I don't give Kitty enough credit.I have been blessed by such a wonderful spouse I am not sure where are marriage will go from here but it won't be because she did not put most of the effort into it,We have gone through my gender identity ?s alcoholism and just plain stupidity mostly on my part I won't say that all of it is me put I will claim the lions share.She has put up with me when most others would have left and I do love her for that.Beckii you have no clue what you are talking about you must have read so much of your own thoughts and feeling's into that post it was so far out there as far as I am concerned.Anyway Kitty never tried to create the feminine me.And I wish she would force me to cd sometimes but that's not her thing and that's okay next time maybe you should keep your judgement to yourself unless you actually have some fact to back it up.Sorry if I came on strong but this is my wife and I do love her and appreciate the fact that she came into my life.Thanks for letting me rant.bye for now Dannielle/David

Dannielle, it took a lot of courage to come on to the forum and stand up for your wife against someone who seems extremely bitter. I applaud you for stating how it really is between you both and putting a certain person straight on a few facts. Thank you for that and I'm sure Kitty will thank you also :hugs:

Dannielle:thumbsup: for your support of Kitty's post, she really did not deserve Beckii's reply. It will be interesting to see how he responds to yours and if he even begins to apologize to Kitty

Jess

for me i have to participate via Teriann otherwise his dressing would get boring and stale for me so participation 24/7 is a must.:thumbsup:

Rather than telling others to chime out and then - well not exactly rushing in, it took a week or so - to defend her, why did he not act right to prevent the problem in the first place? That, I might add, was totally within his power to do. Its great he can spring to her defense here, but if the home sitution was better this might not have ever come up on these boards (and as I will explain, it should not). Given all that was said, his defense of here on these boards, given his neglect of her at home, is hardly praiseworthy. Moreover, those are conversations that should have been going down beween the two of them an a marriage councilor, or minister, or whoever - but not us.

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.

This board is more than likely not the best spot to do such things. Its good for tips for CDs, a place to tell of our small victories, to talk about clothes, movies and other trivial amusements, and a place to share our little trips out and about. As such, it tends to be a poor place for marriage therapy - particularly when its so one sided. Heck, any public forum is a bad place for it no matter if its CD board or a Rod and Gun board. If for not other notion than rational and reasonable people do not put this kind of interpersonal mess on view for all to see.

Good God, that’s why such sessions with thearipists, priests, ministers and the like are always confidential. We don’t want to know - not should we - that you are too busy satisfying yourself to pay attention to your wife. You’re lucky she came here I guess instead of doing what a lot of women and men in that sitution do, which is head on down the road and find someone who cares about them. Women taken for granted are gone, and from the sound of it, she may well have stayed too long as it is - sure sounds a lot like what she is saying and thinking.

You should be absolutely humiliated that your wife has to troll with anonymous (and we pretty much are) postings on the internet to find some comfort, some sympathy, and someone who cares. That is not worthy of any of praise, it is simply shameful.

Don’t stick up for her in here. Try being a stand-up guy in real life, then it will not come to this. You have a do-right woman there. Do the right thing - and soon - or she’s going be long gone. That’s just the way the world goes round.

Because along with all that advice, good, bad or indifferent, I’m sure there were more than a few PMs that basically said, “Hey, I can treat you better than that.” In fact, it would be hard not to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tekla west

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.

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I agree, this whole thread has been wierd from start to finish and I am amazed at the motivations on display. I cannot get rid of the feeling that there is something terribly wrong going on here. It felt like I was reading a tabloid magazine. I think it best the couple sought professional help....and quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tekla west

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice.

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I do so hope that you are not attempting to imply that Kitty is not a decent person as she is one of the most decent caring human beings on this board, if I have misunderstood you I apologize

I understand your points Telka but as you know that most thearpists don't even understand crossdressing or even gender identity issues. I know that a lot of our issuses are separate from the crossdressing but how do you get to that point. We have been to a few counselors some have told me that my husband is a sexual deviant. Most think that it is beyond their ability because they focus on the crossdressing being the major problem. Most of the time we can't get past that point. I have really been let down by the mental health community. I must be under the mistaken assumption that men who crossdress could and would have had some of the same expirences and could reach out to my hubby in a way that he would understand. Hell we don't even know any other crossdressers in our community and we live in the largest city in our state. It isn't easy to find a group of married crossdressers to take example from. I still don't regret putting my question in this section. I have had some lovely responses, great ideas and generally good feeling.

I am sorry that my life has been such a burden on some of you or made you feel disgust. Next time I'll start my own panty chafing thread. Just to make some of you who don't want to hear about real life struggles with marriage and crossdressing feel good.

Again thank for all of the great comments and advice. I still would feel lost without you.:love: Kitty

First, to the best of my knowledge, this is a support and help forum. But it has been awhile since I read the forum guidelines.

Second, what this forum sees is often just the tip of what is actually going on within a couples lives. Most people and couples are going through a lot more within their whole lives not just the CD. And everything within our lives is interrelated.

Third, while most people do a fairly good job at presenting an overview of what they want to share or what they would like to have help with: It is just that and overview and their overview from their prospective. There are always other details and often a life time of details, past relationships, work and other stress, money and many other related information. While we can try to put ourself in their place, their is really no way we can as we are not living their life.

Forth, many of us, including myself, refer people to third parties for help. But finding the right third party that can relate and help out both spouses, the CDing issues, and other issues; is not always an easy task. I know of one (1) person in a city of 110k plus that specializes in gender issues, with very limited CDing experience. I know the first counselor we went to quoted out of the DSM and then proceed to fully tell me I was wrong, and sin full without knowing anything about my CDing. And the other two I had were quick to quote the DSM also but were easier to work with. One even said she had experience in gender issues. She had done research, and have several gay people in the past. So while gender, it was not related to my situation. And I have heard of many stores that the professional counselor just made things worse for the relationship than it was before because there is so little knowledge of TG issues withing the mental health field.

Fifth, we all have our short comings, and most of us already know what most of ours are. So why do you need to point them out. Lets work on the issues that the poster asked about or real issues if you see it as something else. And lets hopefully do this in a positive way. If we wanted negative we would not be here, we would be back in our situation or issue and not ask for help. But we are striving to do and be better.

My wife and I know Kitty and Dannielle personally. And while I would say we are not in the middle of this, but are close on the sidelines. And I would say we only know a slice of the bread of this and all of you know a crumb. For most of us, this forum only sees a small part of who we are. Like I said in an earlier post. I did not realize this post had gone so far otherwise I would have been posting more. I guess I am busy with my own life like most of us should be. And talk about feeling helpless.

I know it can be easy to give advice when we only know a few details. And I know I fall in to this also. But I normally try to assume very little, and what I do I state. And I try to give more general advice, or what worked for myself or my marriage, or what worked for someone else, and in that context. All information on this site is advice and we all need to be able to read and use what may help and discard what is not related to our situation or useful to us.

Enjoy your journey through life. You only get one.

KimberlyS-CD

KimberlyS:thumbup:

Quote from tekla:

The airing of dirty linen in public is always distasteful at best, which is why decent people try hard to avoid doing it, and why other decent people try to look the other way and not notice. Because once you put it out for public consumption and comment then anyone & everyone is free to join and add what they feel moved to say.

OK, I am compelled to respond to this.

This forum is for *support* for CDs, their family and friends. Silly me, I assumed that meant more than just helping decide which color panties one should wear on any given day. :rolleyes:

If you consider Kitty's request for help in this thread to be dirty linen, what the hell would you classify those couples who battle it out via this forum? And yes, there have been a few of those lately.

As dirty linen goes, I'd have to say Kitty's thread is nothing more than one day's wear. Hell, there aren't even any skid marks. :rolleyes:

As Kitty said, I guess we should all now return to supporting those with panty chafing problems or how to properly tuck and avoid the heart breaking issues that couples face in struggling with acceptance of one partner's gender duality.

Interesting thread----but ultimatly it is totally up to the two people involved---I hope that our collective comments and our private e-mails to you have been helpful. Good luck.

"Good God, that’s why such sessions with thearipists, priests, ministers and the like are always confidential. We don’t want to know - not should we - that you are too busy satisfying yourself to pay attention to your wife. You’re lucky she came here I guess instead of doing what a lot of women and men in that sitution do, which is head on down the road and find someone who cares about them. Women taken for granted are gone, and from the sound of it, she may well have stayed too long as it is - sure sounds a lot like what she is saying and thinking.

You should be absolutely humiliated that your wife has to troll with anonymous (and we pretty much are) postings on the internet to find some comfort, some sympathy, and someone who cares. That is not worthy of any of praise, it is simply shameful.

Don’t stick up for her in here. Try being a stand-up guy in real life, then it will not come to this. You have a do-right woman there. Do the right thing - and soon - or she’s going be long gone. That’s just the way the world goes round.

Because along with all that advice, good, bad or indifferent, I’m sure there were more than a few PMs that basically said, “Hey, I can treat you better than that.” In fact, it would be hard not to." posted by Tekla West

Although I disagree with Tekla that this forum is more for the distraction of entertainment and superficial banter, indicated in her first three paragraphs, I commend her for the rest of the post which is pasted above. It is honest and direct. It speaks to the core of what every human NEEDS. We all need to feel loved. We all need to know that we matter.

One very old principle applys here.

"Whatsoever ye sow, so shall ye reap"

In other words, if one isn't making an investment, an effort, they won't get a damned thing back.

Based on all I have read on these boards from both Danielle and Kitty, one of them is investing her energy, putting forth the effort and the "account" is showing no return. All investments that are retained, show some level of return, show some interest and hope for a better future.

Kittypw and Danielle, :hugs:May a mist of LOVE be wrapped around you both for the remainder of the year!!!


Hoping the healing can begin for an awesome 2007!!

Hello,
I am not sure how this is going to end up being read, but would like to interject something here.
If some people claim that this thread has gone on long enough, then why pray tell are they continually reading this thread, and making waves with their postings? Just like anyone would do when a bad televison show is on, turn the thing off and do something else. so should you do the same here. Stop reading threads that irritate you. Many people seek out advice from those they have an understanding of some degree with issues dealing with gender. Often enough there are not many certified therapist capable of dealing with complex issues as this, and those that are I often wonder if they got their diploma out of a gum machine at the local Wal - Mart. Fortunately there seems to be a lot of genuine concern here on this site for those that are confused about gender, and orher issues that some of us can relate to and are willing to help those in need.
As far as I am concerned there wasn't any airing of dirty laundry. One of our own that was hurting and reaching out for comfort, support and advice. I believe most here rose to meet that challenge and all of those folk should be wll commended.
Opinions are like sphincter muscles, everyone has one and everyone thinks the others stink. :2c:

Let me put it this way.

If Kitty had written “When I was taking a shower this morning I felt a small lump in my breast” how many people would have said anything other than “Girl, get to a doctor, NOW!” Why, because we are not qualified to deal with that.

Or...

... had she confessed to thinking that life was not worth going on with, not worth living, and that she was feeling suicidal, would we not have told her to find professional help post haste? I’m sure.

How is any of this any different?

The fact is, that at least here in the States, to be a marriage councilor, it takes a Master Degree in Family Therapy, and a long residency before you can get your licence or credential. Once you have that you would never do this in public, on the web based forum, for all to see. That would be a violation of all medical standards, practices, and ethics. Moreover, they would pull that licence from you faster than you could imagine if you engaged in such ad hoc counseling efforts.

And - this is not a minor point either - anyone who does this for real would have at least got both sides of the story first. More than likely in one-on-one sessions with each of them, and then with sessions with both of them, before even beginning to formulate any conclusions - conclusions that people in here leaped to like Michael Jordan going to the rim.

Such therapy is often a team effort. To wit: I’m sure that a financial councilor would have been involved very fast, as there are money problems, and most divorces begin and end with money more than any other single reason. Among other things - for those who actually read it - there are far more issues here than just the CD deal.

And yes, it’s a support site, but support for what? All issues are not equal. So, the process of coming out, something that most of us are familiar with, something that we have a real life background with, something most of us share is something that we can and should offer support on. But involvement in a deteriorating marriage is more than likely not the kind of thing we can, or should offer support for. We can - and should - plead that they find someone trained to offer real help instead of just mouthing some platitudes that were based on preconceived notions and not the result of a therapeutic analysis.

There is a time and a place for everything, and this may well not be the place for any of us to interfere or intrude on what is a private and personal matter that requires professional help.

It never ceases to amaze me that people who know better then to pretend they are board certified surgeons and do a little amateur open heart surgery on the side, or who are aware that they are not ontologists and can not treat cancer in their spare time, feel that in the realm of counseling, therapy, and mental health that they can participate in what is a highly trained and skilled profession where the stakes are very high.

In real life I don’t know of a single person who ever got in the middle of a couple’s relationship problems who did not regret it. I fail to see how this is any different.

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Originally Posted by JulieCDorlando

If some people claim that this thread has gone on long enough, then why pray tell are they continually reading this thread, and making waves with their postings? Just like anyone would do when a bad televison show is on, turn the thing off and do something else. so should you do the same here. Stop reading threads that irritate you. Many people seek out advice from those they have an understanding of some degree with issues dealing with gender. Often enough there are not many certified therapist capable of dealing with complex issues as this, and those that are I often wonder if they got their diploma out of a gum machine at the local Wal - Mart. Fortunately there seems to be a lot of genuine concern here on this site for those that are confused about gender, and orher issues that some of us can relate to and are willing to help those in need.
As far as I am concerned there wasn't any airing of dirty laundry. One of our own that was hurting and reaching out for comfort, support and advice. I believe most here rose to meet that challenge and all of those folk should be wll commended.
Opinions are like sphincter muscles, everyone has one and everyone thinks the others stink. :2c:

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well said:iagree:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Ok so here is the question. How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

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This is the question, so can we cut out all the damn psycho babble, cus I'm getting sick of reading it.... it's NOT relevant to the question :rolleyes:

STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!!!!

Just a note to you all who refuse to respect the thread to remain on topic, your posts are being deleted from this point on.