My experiment...

Lisa - that's very cool hehe.
Yeah I think that too... if I was BORN a boy I'd probably just have a load of other issues... or might not appreciate being a boy. If I transitioned at least I'd really appreciate being a boy. Thank u.

Tina - hehe! I'm glad you saw that. I often do too....
Ty.

Tree....

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Originally Posted by Tree GG

One last comment and I'll put my therapist suit away.

Maybe you're one of the lucky few who have really trans-ed the gender line. I keep asking, and haven't gotten a satsifactory answer IMO, what's it mean to be feminine? What's it mean to be masculine? Other than the stereotypical attributes (soft vs strong; small vs big; nurturing vs. sink or swim; etc etc) no one can say. And personally, I don't know anyone that fits those stereotypes even to a 50% level - I don't think that person exists... male or female.

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Absolutely. I totally agree. I feel lucky that I'm not so "binary" as Lisa put it.

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The body/physical part is just biology - needed for propogation of the species.

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hehe yeah, cool!

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Other than that, how do you know a loving caress is delivered from a man or a woman if you have your eyes closed?

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Very cool very true!... although some might say something about chemicals, chemistry, hormones "just knowing" whatever. I don't though, I totally know what you mean.

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As Lisa said, you've got these eyes that just radiate a sparkling, fun and honest soul.

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Awww, thank you so much :)

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Why worry about permanent changes? Feel like looking like a boy today - look like a boy. Feel like looking like a typical girl today? - look like a girl.

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hehe... that's what my mum says.
It's just.... oddly, if I had a male body I would feel more comfortable doing that.

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Even if your presentation is based on what you believe someone you care about wants to see, so what? You're giving them a gift, not changing who you are.

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That's true...
And I was thinking earlier how sad and horrible it must be for my mum.
Annoyingly I am quite good at empathising, so I could feel how horrible it must be for her, even though she's being really brave and kind and sweet about it. The thought that I might break her heart was almost enough to make me just stop thinking about all this, and just try and be a normal girl. Well I actually am already doing that as you know from this thread, but somewhat half-heartedly. Perhaps I should just throw myself into it and try and love it.
Although from what I've read on these boards "purging" your gender problems rarely works.

But in a partner situtation it just feels so ... so... "icky" for want of a better word. I really really just don't want to "do things" with someone with a female body. And even if in the past or one day again I DID... I KNOW that I would way prefer it as a male, and I would be sooo more comfortable and happy as a male in that situation... but then that leads me back to "is it all playing pretend?" would I only feel more comfortable BECAUSE i wasn't being myself, as opposed to because I WAS being myself? Grrr. I'm such a f*ckwit.

It isn't just my appearance it affects either, because I don't just make myself look how other people would like to see me... I sort of get into this whole act thing and sometimes ACT sweet and girly too (albeit in a tomboy way). I suppose all females do that to some degree though. But it's also all very awkward and uncomfortable and embarrasing and, maybe, fake. Maybe.
I feel much more loose and chilled and comfy as a boy... but perhaps it's just because maybe I'm playing pretend or something.

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The women AND men in my life that I respect the most are strong, yet gentle and caring. The point is THE SAME HUMAN SOUL CHARACTERISTICS - doesn't matter which role in species propogation they play.

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Very very cool. I agree!

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I completely understand this does not apply to those who really are TS and are 100% certain their birth gender is not how they would be happiest.

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Yeah. Lucky (?) them that they know...

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But if you're not sure, how's about being Pocoyo gendered?

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Hehe, my mum says that too.

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Do, say, react, be as makes you feel good about yourself and just let the rest fall into place (because I'm 100% certain it will).

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Bah. I expect I'll just be confused forever. (Sorry for sounding negative, I'm feeling a tiny bit low right now. I'm really tired for a few reasons, including this TG cr*p, and the dog has just been being really nasty to me.)
Thank you. I hope it does fall into place :happy:

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In my book, men can play with dolls (and pantyhose :devil: ) and be submissive and kiss boo boos and decorate homes; women can assert themselves and be boisterous and fix cars and not care that their bag doesn't match their shoes.

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Oh absolutely. That's very cool and something I say all the time.
I would never be a totally steroetypical man (or girl). I'd be really soft and loving. Very silly and fun, whatever.

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Be Pocoyo first, gender second. Cause from where I'm sitting, you are infectious and smiles bloom wherever you go.

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Awww thank you so much, that's really sweet.

It would help if I knew who/what "pocoyo" was to start with. lol.

And it would be sooo cool... to just "be pocoyo" and get on with it... but that also can't stop me having this confusion... the not quite feeling right about my body... the never actually being able to date anyone again (unless I transition).... the frequent yearnings for maleness.

Meh.

Thanks Tree :) xxxx *hugg*

Pocs? i was wondering as part of the whole experimentation/journey have you given yourself an actually male name that you may or may not take on if you were to transition?

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Originally Posted by Kieron Andrew

Pocs? i was wondering as part of the whole experimentation/journey have you given yourself an actually male name that you may or may not take on if you were to transition?

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Yeah I've made people call me male names on & off through my whole life hehe.
I do have one which I think IS my definitive male name too... (strangely enough it's a nickname for the name mum and dad would have called me had I been born a boy).

But the reason I don't go by either my male or my female name on here is because I want to present myself as completely ME... myself, open and honest, so that people can give me real advice with no bias (which is also the reason I let you all see me girly).

I think if I went by either my male or my female name on here it would push me to act more one way or the other... wheras now as "poco yo" (little me) I am exactly in the middle. The complete true honest me. Not leaving any bits out.


******

P.S... to my previous post....
Also... sometimes I really feel like I'm a MtF (crossdresser..who likes being male) in a FtM's body... now that would confuse ANYONE wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

Yeah I've made people call me male names on & off through my whole life hehe.
I do have one which I think IS my definitive male name too... (strangely enough it's a nickname for the name mum and dad would have called me had I been born a boy).

But the reason I don't go by either my male or my female name on here is because I want to present myself as completely ME... myself, open and honest, so that people can give me real advice with no bias (which is also the reason I let you all see me girly).

I think if I went by either my male or my female name on here it would push me to act more one way or the other... wheras now as "poco yo" (little me) I am exactly in the middle. The complete true honest me. Not leaving any bits out.

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I totally understand where you are coming from, on all the forums ive signed up on that are CD based i initially signed up in my female name or nick name, then changed it slowly over time at a point when i was comfortable identifying with being totally male

******

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

P.S... to my previous post....
Also... sometimes I really feel like I'm a MtF (crossdresser..who likes being male) in a FtM's body... now that would confuse ANYONE wouldn't it?

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well you TOTALLY confused me lol:eek:

Another thing I forgot to say in that other post... why does it feel so natural, normal and right to have a willy (my prosthetic) but not to have boobs....
Oooh bugger.
Anyway, I'm sure everyone's sick of my whining so I'm going to be quiet now lol

Kieron....

Oh that's cool, I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that sort of thing! :)

Hehe! So I'm not the only one who finds me confusing then lol.

Oooh sorry I know I said I'd shut up but I have one more thing to add to my reply to Tree...

Thank you very much, your advice is really good and cool and perhaps I will give that "just being pocoyo, however you want" thing a go after I've done this girl experiment :)
I have sort of done that before but, this time at least my TGness wouldn't be a secret.

Thanks so much for kind words Tree :hugs: :love:

And thanks everyone for taking so much time and effort to respond to my whinging hehe!

Pocs xxxx

Pocs, I have been mulling this over for a bit before putting it down. I really wanted to choose what to say very carefully.

Boi or boy. Gurl or girl. It is presentation that's all. What you feel is what counts and rationalizing things will make you crazy. I think we all tend to do that in the beginning. There is this big question mark then when we start to see things for what they are and who we are then there is this huge sense of denial. After that we begin to see some acceptance once we look at the child inside and give him or her a hug.

Yesterday, my pdoc said it perfectly. Being transgendered just is.

It is not a choice or rationalization. We can make choices about how we deal with it but not change the fact that we are trans. The problems really start to crop up when we try to rationalize our choices. When that stops we have self acceptance. Sounds simple but really isnt. I am a master at oversimplification sometimes.

Being trans does not mean one has to be binary. How we deal with it is what counts. Hon, you have a support system that is excellent. Use it. You made the first baby step with the referral. Please dont stop there.

:hugs:
Kimberley

pocoyo is pocoyo.

deep within is the place with no words
no thoughts
no fears or cunning plans
rooted deep in the vital soil
in the soul
nourished by spirit and dreams,
blood of tragic youth
laughter of the ancestors
tears of the stars
wisdom of the earth
grows a garden of expressions
manifestations of pocoyo
behold and water the soil, your soul
trust what grows from within
and with its fibers, flowers and thorns
clothe yourself
and from its nectar, oils, and bitter essence,
draw strength, passion, and inner knowledge

pocoyo is pocoyo

Hrm Poc and Lisa and Tree have got me thinking, and I think I shall ramble on a bit. I really would like to know what gender is. Sometimes I'm sure I get it, that I just know I'm boyish or girlish. Sometimes I can give a list of characteristics, and say "that, that's what makes a man, and those other things, that's a woman." Sometimes I throw the whole thing out the window and feel like there isn't really gender.
The person who got me started really honestly exploring my gender, Robbie, doesn't believe in gender. She (for want of a better pronoun) has come out as bi, pansexual, trans, and now just comes out as queer, without having a label, 'cause she doesn't believe in genders so she can't be attracted to a certain set of them. I don't know if that's right. I don't know if it's wrong.
Lets face it, we all know a guy friend who likes to shop, and a female friend who likes motercycles, or whatnot. No one fits the stereotype completely. How much of that stereotype is just social anyway? That I'm quiet because I've been told girls are quiet, and the reason I'm more confident in a tie is not because I showing my true self but because guys are allowed to be more confident. I think that's why I'm so loath to say I'm FtM, because some days I don't have a clue what F or M is. It took me 'til sixth grade to understand what people saw gender as, and I've spent the rest of my life wondering what the big deal is.
Does this make any sense? I don't know if I'm just gender-dysfunctional, or what. Some people honestly believe they're born in the wrong body, while many others obviously believe they're in the right body. Seems like there must be something there that's more than just social conditioning, but I have no idea what. It's like sometimes I feel like I've got color-blindness for gender. How do people just know that they're one or the other? Except, some days I think I know also. Just, some days I know I'm a girl and some days I know I'm a guy. And most days I have no clue. Am I just imagining these colors because I want to see them? Do they really exist at all? Or am I color blind and totally missing what it means to be male or female.
I think it'd be nice, someday, to grab a handful of TGs and TSs, as well as some people who don't have gender issues, and just sit and talk and try to define it all. Maybe then I'd get it.
I have no idea if any of this makes any sense. But I'm definitely relating to a lot of Pocs confusion. I'm also (as per usual) short on sleep and therefore possibly not making the most sense. Anyway that's my story; I'm going to go get lunch now.

Poc,

I just want to be sure I get you (and your confusion). My own confusion was not about whether I'm a girl or a boy - I figured out that I'm mostly (but not 100%) boy. My confusion had to do with how I wanted to present to the world - not because people expect us to be one or the other (I don't care what they expect), but just to see what presentation I'm most comfortable with (male, female, in-between, or changing depending on my mood). I suppose I want to present as male because I got tired of people not being able to see the real me, but I don't have a problem presenting as a girly-boy, 'cause that's what I am. And that's why I'm transitioning, but rejecting suggestions to be more manly where I don't want to be. Does any of that sound familiar?

I think it's great that you're experimenting and questioning, and if you're half as impatient as I am, you may want all the answers now so the confusion will end, but you're taking the right approach and I'm sure the answers will come when you've looked at it from every angle. They may come slowly, or they may hit you like a bolt of lightning, but I'm sure you'll get there. I know I've told you all that before, but I wanted to restate it 'cause I know how hard it is to live with that confusion. :hugs:

Lots of great responses here, BTW . . . and poetry! Wow! :happy:

As a little kid, it was obvious that some people were male & some were female, although most people also had a bit of the other gender, too. When I learned that gender was assigned on the basis of "toilet parts" I was amazed & a little embarrassed. Surely society wasn't that simplistic! :)

I was 4, maybe younger. Someone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, if I could be anything I wanted to be. I knew they expected me to respond with a typical stereotypical male occupation, like pilot or fireman, so I thought I'd give a left-field response. I said I wanted to be a woman. They laughed at me, and said little boys can't become women, but they wouldn't explain why not. A little while later, my mother had a little talk with me...

:hugs:

Robin

PS. Pocoyo, you're hot as a guy or a girl. Versatility is a virtue. :)

Hi Bi.
I dont know if this is of any help. Hopefully it is.:hugs:

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Hrm Poc and Lisa and Tree have got me thinking, and I think I shall ramble on a bit. I really would like to know what gender is. Sometimes I'm sure I get it, that I just know I'm boyish or girlish. Sometimes I can give a list of characteristics, and say "that, that's what makes a man, and those other things, that's a woman." Sometimes I throw the whole thing out the window and feel like there isn't really gender.

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Someone once said to me; "There are as many genders as there are people."

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The person who got me started really honestly exploring my gender, Robbie, doesn't believe in gender. She (for want of a better pronoun) has come out as bi, pansexual, trans, and now just comes out as queer, without having a label, 'cause she doesn't believe in genders so she can't be attracted to a certain set of them. I don't know if that's right. I don't know if it's wrong.
Lets face it, we all know a guy friend who likes to shop, and a female friend who likes motercycles, or whatnot. No one fits the stereotype completely.

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Sounds like Robbie has got it.

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How much of that stereotype is just social anyway? That I'm quiet because I've been told girls are quiet, and the reason I'm more confident in a tie is not because I showing my true self but because guys are allowed to be more confident. I think that's why I'm so loath to say I'm FtM, because some days I don't have a clue what F or M is. It took me 'til sixth grade to understand what people saw gender as, and I've spent the rest of my life wondering what the big deal is.

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I believe the big deal is external. Societal. Most of us would be fine with our gender if those barriers were removed. We have to figure out how we are going to best fit into that world.

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Does this make any sense? I don't know if I'm just gender-dysfunctional, or what. Some people honestly believe they're born in the wrong body, while many others obviously believe they're in the right body. Seems like there must be something there that's more than just social conditioning, but I have no idea what. It's like sometimes I feel like I've got color-blindness for gender. How do people just know that they're one or the other? Except, some days I think I know also. Just, some days I know I'm a girl and some days I know I'm a guy. And most days I have no clue. Am I just imagining these colors because I want to see them? Do they really exist at all? Or am I color blind and totally missing what it means to be male or female.

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YES it makes sense. The fact that you are here is proof you are looking for answers, but you already have the answers inside. You just need to sort through the mud to get to the shore. None of us are ever one or the other and that includes the cisgendered community. With us, this difference is more pronounced so we question it. We question the gender, our place in society and how we define ourselves. Definition is the wrong path to take in my opinion.

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I think it'd be nice, someday, to grab a handful of TGs and TSs, as well as some people who don't have gender issues, and just sit and talk and try to define it all. Maybe then I'd get it.

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We are all here for that exact reason but you are always welcome to pm me and ask questions, just as you are most people here. You will get straight answers about our feelings and it is feelings that you are questioning is it not?

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I have no idea if any of this makes any sense. But I'm definitely relating to a lot of Pocs confusion. I'm also (as per usual) short on sleep and therefore possibly not making the most sense. Anyway that's my story; I'm going to go get lunch now.

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Lunch.... now there's a concept....:hugs:
Kimberley

Kimbs... so I'm definitely tg? (Well I guess I knew that even though I doubt/question just about everything at the moment).
But you think I may be in some kind of denial?
Could well be... but, I think it's just because of a whole BUNCH of factors (e.g. the fact that I make a good girl AND boy, wanting to please others, peer pressure(?), body confusion, being so unsure of myself about a lot of things etc etc.
Or do you mean denial either way?
(Don't forget I'm the ship's idiot and need things spelled out lol).
If you mean denial that I'm actually just a normal cisgendered girl... then you could well be right. And that is what I'm afraid of :( I don't WANT to be a normal cisgendered girl.

I won't stop there (the referral) because it's something I need to investigate and sort out (or IS it? Should I just be getting on with being a girl, and I'm actually just fooling myself that I have gender problems? And my only real "problem" is that I want to be cool like I find boys?) ... see how uncertain I get about lots of things sometimes... grrr. Cos that wouldn't explain the "feeling right" about the willy. Although I could have just imagined that it felt right. I worry sometimes I could be so devious to myself subconsciously that I might trick myself into convincing myself of things that aren't true or something....
I am sorry that I am sounding like such a flipping nutcase lol! Constantly stating one thing then another... questioning, questioning. Some of it is because my mum has said to me before that I am the kind of person that picks up on an idea, then won't let go of it. It makes me so unsure of myself... like I can never trust myself to have a true opinion.
I have lately learned that I am right about a lot of things... and become strong in my thinking about certain things that Mum was wrong about (e.g. positive thinking IS the correct way to think, and I was right to be that positive person all along.) Don't forget that I have had a mum with depression on and off for the last 10 years or so ... and at a very impressionable/important time. So some of her thinking has rubbed off on me. (Not being depressed, but self-doubt/insecurities/self esteem issues etc) even though she has always tried her best to make me very confident.

Roberta - wow that's amazing. Very touching. Intense, yet hopeful. Thanks :)

bi - woaah I have thought a lot of those things too...
Especially some days knowing I'm meant to be a boy and some days knowing I'm meant to be a girl, but most of the time being confused lol. You make a good girl as well don't you? Perhaps if we only made a good girl or only made a good boy things would be clearer. Hmm. I'm waffling now. Glad to see I'm not the only one that's questioning and unsure, but still got some sort of gender issues.... My mum thinks I'm a perfectionist (I'm not actually.. just a tad SOMEtimes...) she thinks I feel a huge need to fit into one box or the other. But it's not that. I know I am an exciting blend of genders... it's just the packaging I want it to be in/how I want to bee seen/how I act that is causing me the confusion.

Capt - hmmm. Well do you know what. I think that IS my confusion actually... that I literally don't know whether I am a girl or a boy. If I DID know.... then that would be easier... I think.
Although if I was just a "normal girl" I wouldn't like that (I don't know why). It's like I WANT to be told I'm a boy. Why would anyone want that?! If they had the option of getting on with things as a normal cisgendered person?

Hmm. Maybe it's not even as confusing as I make it, perhaps it's just as simple as:
I don't want to be a girl, I want to be mixture but should I transition, because I would be possibly more comfortable with a male body.
Is THIS what Kimberley means about denial?
Am I OBVIOUSLY mainly a boy... but just don't have the guts to make my outsides match my insides?
Or perhaps I'm OBVIOUSLY just some sort of tomboy that is great at acting and "becoming characters"... perhaps I'm just a CDer.
Oh bloomin heck. (Hmm I don't think it IS denial Kimberley... I think it's out and out confusion._

Like Lisa and Kimb I don't believe that gender has to be binary... although actually it is to some degree at least.

Are there parts of being female that I enjoy?
Well what I like is the attention I get when I have my make up on and people find me attractive (shallow as that sounds) but I think that is the only thing I like about being a girl..

Ok I just thought about it for a moment and I would say that the bits I like about being a girl are as follows:
Because that is who I've been, as my main identity (for whatever reason) for the past {however many} years since puberty.
Female, is how people know me, like me and relate to me. And it's how I know how to be, how I am "trained" to be. (Even though I am a real tomboy as a girl and had a pretty unisex upbringing).
I am actually a bit ugly BUT... I CAN scrub up to make an attractive female and I enjoy the attention of people thinking I look nice.
I like that I can get on with people very well just by being charming and smiley... (but then it p*sses me off when I realise it's just because they find me attractive.)

Maybe my mum was subjected to chemicals or something when she was pregnant with me and it just messed up... so I have an intersexed, and thus, confused brain haha!
Also I seriously think that hormones can cloud your thinking. Perhaps without all this femaleness coursing around my body I would be like "well derr... I'm definitely a boy" instead of this conflict between certain thoughts and feelings I have and my female body.

Or.. maybe when I get slim enough I WILL just feel happy in my own skin as a girl. (No I don't mean that in a weird eating disorders way, I just would prefer to be a little bit slimmer, as a girl).

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My confusion had to do with how I wanted to present to the world - not because people expect us to be one or the other (I don't care what they expect), but just to see what presentation I'm most comfortable with (male, female, in-between, or changing depending on my mood). I suppose I want to present as male because I got tired of people not being able to see the real me, but I don't have a problem presenting as a girly-boy, 'cause that's what I am. And that's why I'm transitioning, but rejecting suggestions to be more manly where I don't want to be. Does any of that sound familiar?

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Yes... that would be why I transitioned too. And also to feel happier and more relaxed in my own skin.

Oh yeah that's another thing too... I (think I) relate far more strongly to being a girly-boy, than to being a boyish-girl. And, as Kerrianna once said to me... there is a difference.
And it can be very frustrating being seen as a boyish girl when in fact you feel like a girly boy lol! But again, I'm not even sure about that.
There's not REALLY much difference in SOME androgynous people, aside from the packaging but then that can impact on how you act and feel.

Ok... I do not want to change who I am as a person. I still want to be "me".
That could well be what a lot of it boils down to.
I am scared that if I transition, I won't be "me" anymore.

Thanks for your help and support guys n gals.
poc oh-so-confused yo

POCS!!! :spank: (Now dont tell me you like it or it is off to the Capn's hot tub with you.):D

The binary definition is what society places on gender. We know better.

Denial. This is part of the road to self acceptance. I did not say you are in denial only that it is part of the process. You are questioning. That is what you should be doing. Geesh!

Cisgendered? You? I dont think soooooo. Welcome to my unreality of being both genders, just like the Capn, Ms.Donna, Kerri and just about everyone else here and elsewhere. NO LABELS; NO BOXES!
[SIZE="4"]Dress outside the box hon.[/SIZE] :D

You have already stated what you dont want; to be a cisgendered girl. Big big clue there lil darlin.

Nutcase? I love nutcases... we can share Oreos in the rubber room then roll in the crumbs. Even let Kieron visit and shake his head. (Gotta have a bit of humour here.)

The cause for all of this. That is a huge debate but I lean toward the findings of genetic researchers at USC who found a big correlation between sexual orientation, gender and genetics. The evidence is pretty solid.

Your thoughts and feelings in our letters have always been very forthright and so I dont think your opinions are at all clouded. They are very valid. Please dont think they arent important or misguided. Opinions can change with information, feelings cant.

Presentation. It is what it is. We do the best with what we have got. Boyish girl, girlish boy or cisgendered girl? Doesnt matter. Like so many others here we would walk beside you any day of the week in any mode. It isnt looks that matter, it is what is between your ears and there is a lot there. A lot of friends here, a lot of friends.

:hugs:
Kimberley

Hehehe *a little chuckle*
Your post just cheered me up a bit and somehow lifted the weight.
That all makes such sense.
Thank you
Sorry, I'm tired today!

You (and the others) rock....

Lovely Kimberley
:hugs: *hugs her but squeezes just a little too hard, making her wheeze* (I do that in real life hehe!...usually by accident...sometimes to be annoying hehe!)

pocoyo the smiling

Hehe Poc we should have a confused party. I think we're both about as sure as each other was to what the heck is going on. So I have no advice, just commisuration. How do you spell that word? Anyway yes, confusion. *sigh*

Hey Pocs,
In a bit of a hurry so can't respond to everything right now, but... I think I've gone through (and continue to, and will continue to) every thought you've expressed here. You've just been able to actually put the thoughts into words, which is something Iv'e never been able to do (with ANY thoughts, not just TG ones).
I've wondered if this is denial, both ways, wondered if maybe I just want to be a boy just because I DON'T want to be a girl, because it's so 'normal.'
Like with all my medical problems and such-- Sure, I hate being in pain all the time, but I'm afraid of not being in pain. If I get all this medical stuff taken care of, then I'll be losing a big part of what makes me, me. And that scares the hell out of me. It's the same with being TG, I think. If I ever did realise that I wasn't TG, for some reason, that it was something to do with hormones, or a weird place psychologically, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

Wow, what an interesting discussion - I can't think of anything to add right now Pocs except my mantra since I was young which came from King Crimson's first album and really has never changed:

[SIZE="3"]"Confusion will be my Epitaph"[/SIZE]

carry on......:hugs:

hi poc
i was thinking of you all day today "good thoughts" and i want to clear something up it may help you, i said i knew from age 5 or 6 that i should have been born a girl, thats true however there were lots of times i was in denial. the first time i was 13 then 17 , 21,25 ,33 ,38, and at 40 i give up, no more denial no more purging , damm it i am a woman .. no more confusion. i can't take it this anymore in the end i just wanted someone to kill me and get it over , well my wife yes wife found out about my cding after 21 years and game over for me, in a way she set me free to become the other woman, and even now there are time i doubt myself `i think`. " you are not the only one " and i go for my letter for srs march 17 :eek: , so don't think this is easy. hey i know you don't, i get my moments too , and did the capt say something about doubt too?. before his surgery ?
in the end i think you should go with your gut instincts how you feel be who you are pocoyo the guy who makes our day and brightens up the day

so poc you see you are not alone my good man

and even when i get my letter and go for my surgery i doubt i would be 100% sure i don't think anyone of us are..

hey is there anyone here 100% sure ?? who they are?normal !! whats normal ?

Hi, sorry I haven't replied to a few of the answers here. I needed a rest from thinking about it all so much. But I did read all of them and it's good to hear your lovely helpful views and opinions and also to know that I'm not alone with the confusion and that lots of people have felt some degree of confusion over all this gender stuff.

****

Thought I would update this thread with something that happened today...because I was making a video for you guys, with me as "boy poc" (well... more like "androgynous poc" actually) and "girl poc" ... I still had my proper make up on and so I wore it to work and my hair tied back in a ponytail. I got flirted at by so many horrible straight men (haha I'm not saying straight men are horrible in general, but these were), and a bunch of stupid STUPID boys who hung around just to play jokes on me and annoy me, thinking they were hilarious. None of the being-flirted-with/fancied felt nice... NONE of it.
It really p*ssed me off. I'm sure I didn't used to hate being fancied/flirted at by straight men QUITE so much... hmm.
The other day I had my hair in bunches at work and just mascara, this cute canadian guy was talking to me. That's the only person I have enjoyed being flirty with me for ages (he wasn't even that flirty, just sweet).

I just felt like saying "Oh f*ck off and leave me alone you idiots" today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

The other day I had my hair in bunches at work and just mascara, this cute canadian guy was talking to me. That's the only person I have enjoyed being flirty with me for ages (he wasn't even that flirty, just sweet).

---

We're all cute and sweet over here Pocs. :battingeyelashes:

You should come visit. I was thinking you've got so many fans in North America you could do the
Pocoyo North American Tour! You could start out here on the West Coast and work your way back or start back East and work your way out here. Maybe I'll be your tour tech (you must need a tech if you go on tour) and get to see everyone else at the same time too. That would be a blast! :thumbup:

[SIZE="1"]sorry if I missed or misplaced anyone's city on the map - it was done quickly. :p [/SIZE]

Hahaha! I have popped on quickly while waiting for taxi to go to work... now that's funny! :D

Btw.. cute Canadians... :D

:hugs:

He needs to swing round to Salt Lake, too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abraxas

He needs to swing round to Salt Lake, too...

---

ahhhh....I'll have to amend the tour map. I think the original line I had went through Utah, but I thought Nawww, nobody lives there! :heehee:

Sorry Abraxas, we'll get that added to the tour for sure. I know Pocs would want to see you. :hugs:

Wouldn't it be funny if we all ended up on Poc's doorstep instead? :eek: I think he should start the tour on the west coast and bring people along as he makes his way to the east coast. Once he gets here, we can have one hell of a party! :D

Hi Poc, Been reading this and have some ideas. It's seems you are comfortable with being yourself and the only problem is you can't decide how to present. You enjoy being a tomboy for sure. So, my question is what is wrong with that? You know most of your friends accept you for who you are. As far as dressing and presentation, just do what you want, when you want. No one here is going to fault you for that. If you want to wear a dress, wear a dress, if you want to wear boy stuff, wear boy stuff. If you want a willy, have one. Take it from someone who was in the same boat for years, always worried about other people. It gave me no small amount of frustration until I said the hell with it and I'm gonna be who I wanna be when I wanna be. You and I may be more alike than you may think from opposite sides of the same coin. Right now, I'm having fun being in guy mode and don't care what others think (especially folks here) as I'm enjoying myself thoroughly. This may last for a week or two, maybe more. I can always return to being Sal whenever I'm ready. The point is I'm doing it and am enjoying it and it is totally my choice. Being yourself and enjoying it is the key. As long as you don't compromise yourself and your identity as a person, you will always be happy. I've just realized I wasted too much energy worrying about it and just went ahead and did what I felt like. I'm much happier for that.:happy:

DUUDE I like this plan! Party at the Caps!
Wait a minute. I may be doing a North American road trip in a few months. If I go to grad school at Irvine (currently the front runner) I have a grand plan for getting there. I can't fly 'cause I have to take my guinea pigs, so I'm renting a UHaul and driving cross country over the course of a week, a few hours each day, and stopping in a few state every night. May have to try to track some of you down if I do that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

....Thought I would update this thread with something that happened today...because I was making a video for you guys, with me as "boy poc" (well... more like "androgynous poc" actually) and "girl poc" ... I still had my proper make up on and so I wore it to work and my hair tied back in a ponytail. I got flirted at by so many horrible straight men (haha I'm not saying straight men are horrible in general, but these were), and a bunch of stupid STUPID boys who hung around just to play jokes on me and annoy me, thinking they were hilarious. None of the being-flirted-with/fancied felt nice... NONE of it.
It really p*ssed me off. I'm sure I didn't used to hate being fancied/flirted at by straight men QUITE so much... hmm.... I just felt like saying "Oh f*ck off and leave me alone you idiots" today.

---

*************
I can totally relate to this one. Fridays are breakfast with my father. Anyway, as everyone knows I generally present DRAB (to keep the peace). Anyway, the waitress started flirting. My father thought it was funny. I felt like you did POCS, then thought 'Gee I wonder how fast she could run if she knew I was TG?' That brought a REAL smile to my face.
*************
Dealing with a Canuck huh? One of my bro's in law is over there right now on a contract. I wonder......
Nahhhhhhh

:hugs:
Kimberley

:Awww Salandra, I like your post. It makes a lot of sense, and inspires me with a sort of sense of freedom... (if that makes sense!).
Thank you. Also, I'm glad you're enjoying your male side :D

***

PARTY AT CAPS OR MINE? WOOO!!! :cheers: :jumping:
Looking forward to that one... hmm now what to wear? ;)
Aweeeesommme!

****

Oh Kimberley!! Poor thing. I'm glad someone knows what I mean/how it feels!!!
Hehe yeah I should have dropped my voice and said "Er... my name's [insert boy name here], would you like me to prove it? No? Then bog off!" that would have shut them up *chuckles*

Hehe what does your BIL look like?! Rather handsome? :heehee:

Yeah, when I go to the club as Sal, I sometimes talk like a longshoreman and their mouths just hang open. Sometimes when I go as Rich, I talk really fruity and they are equally confused. Throw in Eric and they don't know what to think. I just sit there LMAO. It keeps them guessing anyway and they never know what I'm going to do next.;) :alien: :battingeyelashes:

Hi Poc:

I have read thru this thread with empathy and interest.
Honestly my heart goes out to you.

In case you have not picked it up on any of my previous posts,
I have a strong background in psychology.
My natural tendancy is to care and nurture.
Which ironicaly is a female tendancy.

So in a very non professional gesture but a sincere friendly one,
I wish I could give you a hug right now and just tell you that everything is going to be alright.
Because eventually it will be.

Til then, please hang in and be yourself.
Even if "yourself" changes from day to day.
Whattheheckever is wrong with that anyway?

I am not going to play "shrink" here, and analyze anything.
Just as a concerned friend, brother/sister-human being,
be well and live well.

BTW, you can keep my skirt. If you don't wear it let it be a souvenir.
LOL...OK? Hugs. Big ones.

Jestina

Awww Jest thank you thats so sweet! ((hug))
Today I am like 98% sure I am a boy (or 98% boy!).

I actually found myself yelling out loud in bed last night in disgust/fear (like I do sometimes from a nightmare) as I was falling asleep, because I hate having boobs so much!

I just want to be relating to people as a boy and for my body to be properly male and and and.... I still want your skirt ;) :heehee:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

I just want to be relating to people as a boy and for my body to be properly male and and and.... I still want your skirt ;) :heehee:

---

Wait your turn...I want it first.

I think it will look better on me than that boy Jest, so just ignore him. :heehee: Oh look, he's getting all flustered. :heehee:

Oh, sorry mate, did you want this?

Hah! Gotta earn it!

*swivels on her heels flipping the skirt over her shoulder singing "I know what boys want, I know what boys want...:tongueout "

Hmmmm...Two Canadian gurls and an English pirate.

OOOH what fun we could have eh?

I think you should let Poc try on my skirt.

After all thats how I got into this...

Now that IS confusing though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jestina

Hmmmm...Two Canadian gurls and an English pirate.

OOOH what fun we could have eh?

I think you should let Poc try on my skirt.

After all thats how I got into this...

Now that IS confusing though...

---

Okay, Pocs here you go.

*hands him the skirt. stands watching him expectantdly with a smirk on her face*

*grabs it rudely and puts it on his head*

P.S. I really chuckled at the last 3 posts :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

*grabs it rudely and puts it on his head*

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:rolleyes: :heehee: ...just hasn't got a clue does he Jestina?

*shaking head sadly, muttering*

Men! How do they get through the day? :rolleyes:

Hehehe
I dunno, how do we?
*Has hand fiddling in pants*
:lol: :lol2:

:lol: :roflmao:

:rolleyes: You're incorri...incorgi...oh, you're impossible!

*stamps her foot and walks off, trying not to giggle :heehee: *

Haha, well as you know, and as Das pointed out, I haven't seem to have been enjoying or managing to keep the experiment up very well. But it's a necessary process... if I don't do it I will always wonder... and I do want to see how it feels.
So I figure as long as I'm still growing my hair then I am on my way to being able to look properly girly.

I think it's ok to be girly sometimes and boy-y sometimes at the moment.

Tonight again I couldn't face being girly, and went to work trying to look as boyish as I could. I had messy hair (e.g. not styled in a girly way) and had a tiny bit of shading to enhance the shape of my chin and had my male name on my name badge. I also made sure I reeked of aftershave/cologne, instead of my usual unisex fragrance... to further hammer the point home..."I'm male!"

And I wore my willy 2 work for the 1st time.. I didn't even care if anyone noticed! :D It felt lovely :daydreaming:

And despite my girlish locks... I didn't get called "lady" once... hah :D
[SIZE="1"](I think I did get called "she" but only once and when I was in extreme pain & so letting my guard down... probably yelped in a high voice or something).[/SIZE]


[Edit: forgot to say that a couple of nice looking gay boys, came in (well, they registered on my gaydar anyway) they were both good looking and about 5'4. One of them was WELL eyeing me up and smiling very cutely at me, something else similar happened earlier too.. yay! :D

Oh also I did something stupid... "flirted" with a girl, in front of her boyfriend! Haha. She showed me some photo ID and I was like "nice picture btw" and gave her a (hopefully) charming smile, when I handed it back. I felt a bit sheepish dealing with the boyfriend after that :heehee:]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

And I wore my willy 2 work for the 1st time.. I didn't even care if anyone noticed! :D It felt lovely :daydreaming:

---

I told my mum about that ^ and she said that "Oh don't do that.... only because it's so dangerous. I don't want you to get beaten up."

It made me feel a bit angry.

Hehe, there are a lot of people here today, there seems to be some sort of fair on... the roads are busy and there's lots of people milling about, walking up and down and around. Including a bunch of out-of-towners who wouldn't know me from Adam (and so wouldn't recognise me from my "girl mode"). I went out among them, dressed as a boy.

I felt a little bit worried/odd about it at times, which was anxiety carried over from last night I think. (I had a phone call with mum where we discussed TGness again last night and I had ended up feeling quite bad about it all which inevitably evolved into confusion... and worrying about the nature of "me" etc).
Mainly though I felt really nice, sort of relaxed and happy, knowing they were seeing me as a boy. Because I know a lot of them (if not all) did see me as a boy, despite the length of my hair (thank goodness many boys of my style these days have emoey/girly/scruffy/longish hair).

I loved sitting there on a bench in the park while people bustled past occasionally stopping to pet my dog, knowing that not a single curve was showing, and that should anyone happen to look/accidentally notice, that there was a pretty cool bulge showing... if you know what I mean. (Not that they would look, but it made me feel happy/secure/cool knowing it was there! And hey... some people do look sometimes :heehee:).

And I enjoyed people "interacting" (looking, nodding, smiling, whatever) with me as a boy.

*puts hands behind head and sits back and sighs*

aaaaaahhhhhhhh :happy:

Oh silly Poc. You make me smile. Glad your giving yourself a few days off. Flirt with a boy for me, will ya? I'm too shy to flirt successfully in real life.
*doing his best to still be supportive and not pushy* Just be sure that you don't cheat too much. You've said yourself, this experiment is so that you'll know, and won't have to go back. Might as well do it right, so that you can chop off your hair when it's done and never look back. Savvy?

In a totally unrelated note, you guys are getting me all confused. I still pause when I use a male pronoun in reference to me, but I pause now in other places when I use a female one. Currently neither seems right. Oi. Find, I'm taking a step, and wearing boy clothes today, the whole deal, not just the planned boyish shirt, even though I'm seeing my family. But this is not me hijacking Pocs thread, so ignore this.

I don't think you're cheating - you're comparing, right? Gotta have comparisons in any good experiment. You're seeing how it feels in both modes. How else will you be able to find the answers? :happy:

Aha . . . sounds like you're doing your own experimenting, Bi.

Bi - Hehe I will do some flirting for you if I get the chance ;)
Yus yus.... good points....
OI... you can talk about what you want, when you want on my threads silly!!
Don't ever worry about hijacking them :D The only time I ever worry about that is if there's a really important point I want people to read and lots of people totally go off topic! But this is a long and sprawling thread and it doesn't matter at all :hugs: And hey I seem to hijack other people's threads quite often :o
I know what you mean about that pronoun confusion... it does feel quite natural to call myself "he" online because I have been a he online for a loong time. But in real life the pronoun thing gets a bit awkward in front of friends and family.
Also... I say, wear what you're feeling comfortable in ... :D Go Bi!!

Cap... ahhh yes, you are soo right. I was thinking that myself earlier too... maybe the experiment can have some comparisons instead of JUST being girly....
But also, as bi says... I do have to try and do a bit of the girly thing in a solid lump at some point... (haha it's almost like a RLT... seeing if I can live as a girl lol!) :heehee:


Btw... I am thinking of ordering some take away food to get delivered to my place, from a food place I've never tried before... and giving my boy name, and just greeting/paying them/recieving my food as a boy.... (another part of the boy side of the experiment eh Cap?!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocoyo

Btw... I am thinking of ordering some take away food to get delivered to my place, from a food place I've never tried before... and giving my boy name, and just greeting/paying them/recieving my food as a boy.... (another part of the boy side of the experiment eh Cap?!)

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Sounds good - spoken like a true scientist. If you've never done that in totally boy mode before, you'll be able to see how it feels. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptLex

Sounds good - spoken like a true scientist. If you've never done that in totally boy mode before, you'll be able to see how it feels. :thumbsup:

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Teehee! *beams happily*
No I haven't, ever... I just always hope they will assume I'm male, or be female to them 'cos it's easier. I'm always a bit of a chicken because I don't feel like people will believe I'm a boy so I don't do the boy thing properly in real life very often. Especially in situations where I have to talk.
But...*puts on Randall from Monsters Inc. voice)... ya hear that.....?
*there is a faint whistling sound*
.... that's the sounds of the winds, of chaannge!

*puts on stern, determined voice, raises arm aloft and talks to the world....*
Hey, I'm taking control... tonight I am a boy, I say I am a boy, my name is male, I am dressed as and look like a boy... so they will see me as a boy. And that's the way it is. Yus *nods* :happy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pocoyo

No I haven't, ever... I just always hope they will assume I'm male, or be female to them 'cos it's easier. I'm always a bit of a chicken because I don't feel like people will believe I'm a boy so I don't do the boy thing properly in real life very often. Especially in situations where I have to talk.

---

I think I can relate. When I go down to the laundromat (in my apartment building), I've never really tried to present as either male or female. I know my new-ish neighbors (been here 4 months now) see me as a female, and I haven't done anything to discourage that 'cause I don't feel like explaining things to people I don't even know well. Lately, I've been thinking I need to present as male as possible (just to do laundry? gads!) so they'll start seeing me that way. But if they ask anything, I'd better be ready with at least a simple answer so they can stop seeing me as female. That didn't make sense - I think I just confused myself there. Anyway, unless I'm going to shave off my beard, then I need to present as male so they don't think I'm their new weird, hairy female neighbor. :eek: Who knew something as simple as laundry could get so complicated?

Hehehe *still giggling from the Elijah post and suddenly finding Cap's "just to do laundry?.. gads! :eek: and "new hairy female neighbour" extremely amusing!*

Awww, there is a lot of frustration and hard work in being transgender... but heck there's a lot of comedy too... what a sit com I could write.. what. a. sit. com. hehe :heehee:

Anyway back to the predicament... aww I do totally understand. And I agree that you should just start being as male to them as you can soon. After all, you are on your way to becoming completely male.

It's a weird thing, sometimes you can get used to seeing someone one way and then they change and you forget the 1st way you saw them and just think of them in their new style. So it could just be a very natural process and they could forget they ever saw you as a woman, or just think "oh... we were wrong."

I think your answer could just be "I'm a man" should they ever ask.
It's hard to tell the physical gender of lots of people, but sometimes once you get told one way or the other you just start seeing them as that. Especially cool in your case as you will be getting more and more male-looking over the next couple of years.

:happy: